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/lit/ - Literature

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7049391 No.7049391 [Reply] [Original]

Christfags, how does it feel to be wrong 24/7?

>> No.7049412
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7049412

IDK How does it feel to have broads deny you pussy cause you goin to hell? Must suck, you pansy boy

>> No.7049425 [DELETED] 

>>7049412
Jesus was probably middle eastern looking, and an atheist

>> No.7049511
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7049511

>>7049412
>Christians have more sex than Atheists

>> No.7049514

>>7049391
>turnstheothercheek.jpg

>> No.7049515

>>7049511
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/07/17/devout-catholics-have-better-sex

Not surprisng considering most atheists are either repuslive, overweight redditors or dosed up on anti-depressants and unable to get it up

>> No.7049524

>>7049515
You're supposed to trow bread at them yet you're using stones.

>> No.7049527

>>7049524
Fuck. h*

>> No.7049545

>>7049412
>>7049515

>promote lifestyle that shuns sexual activity as impure
>use pussy as an 'argument' for said lifestyle

Amazing how you people can't write even a single counterargument with contradicting yourselves

>> No.7049547

>>7049545

*without

>> No.7049550

How do some people stay dumb? I know most of the Christians here are faking it but what about those people our age who really believe in God? Are they faking it too?

>> No.7049554

>>7049515
>Percent who feel loved during sex = quality of sex

>> No.7049563

>>7049515
The study was done by a group. No, not a group of trained data analysists, but rather a group of Catholics. A group of Catholics that relied heavily on data that is outdated by more than 20 years. I'm pretty sure that anybody who has to beg for forgiveness after saying a naughty word isn't going to have a good sex life

>> No.7049568

>>7049550
Im not faking it, why would I?

>> No.7049578

>>7049568

You are, because if you weren't, you would have given away all your belongings to the poor by now

>> No.7049589

>>7049578
well Im a sinner, what can I do

>> No.7049591
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7049591

reminder that debating atheists on religion is pointless

>>7049578

>> No.7049598

>>7049589

You could give away all your belongings to the poor for one. Either that or don't complain about sinners ever again, since you're no better

>> No.7049602

>>7049591

So debates only have a point if people agree with you? Those sure sound like interesting debates

>> No.7049607

>>7049598
I dont complain about sinners and dont feel like being better then anyone though. I try my best to devote my life to helping people also. Also might I ask if you are projecting you feelings of superiority?

>> No.7049609 [DELETED] 
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7049609

>>7049515
wow lad
calm down

>> No.7049610

>>7049550
Perhaps they are not so dumb.

I was raised an atheist and it took me years to understand why people had religion at all. One of the things that opened up my worldview is precisely acknowledging that to think they are dumb for it was an explanation that I've invented myself and a cheap one as well. When you consider God an imaginary friend, of course believers are going to be absurd, but when you truly go deep into it and see how the other understands life, nature, will, when you go beyond the language, it can really bring new understandings of what the other was saying. I mean that when I look at the sunset I imagine that big star far away and someone comes up to me and says "God is really wonderful isn't he?" and that made me mad, why bring that into it? Until I understood that the person is not adding anything, it is not a conclusion, not even an opinion, but a statement of a fact disguised in a language that I did not understand. What does that person mean, truly? And what did I mean when I bring forth a scientific view of the sun? A veil seems to fall to put it all in the same pot: the earth, the sun, the differences between people, our limits and our language. I don't understand it, but I suffer and rejoice with it. Same as the next guy.

>> No.7049612

>>7049607
>Also might I ask if you are projecting you feelings of superiority?

No, I just hate pointless talk without action. Not only are you pontificating with virtues you yourself don't live by, but you're also wasting other people's time

>> No.7049613

>>7049602
No but atheists simply twist religion to fit their narrative because they have no obligation to project religion realistically or fair. See your post

>> No.7049614

>>7049578
>if you were truly a christian you should be burning fags and fucking your sister, the bible says so!
Why are atheists so fond of a fundamentalist reading of religion?

>> No.7049616

>>7049612
>Not only are you pontificating with virtues you yourself don't live by
How did you come to this conclusion?

>> No.7049619

>>7049610
/thread

>> No.7049622

>>7049610
great post

>> No.7049627

>>7049616

You have possessions. Your god specifically told you that that's a bad thing

>> No.7049634
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7049634

>>7049613
>No but atheists simply twist religion to fit their narrative

Yes, and Christians would never do such a thing. They'd never use cheap strawmen or namecalling, and have definitely never used pic related

>> No.7049638

>>7049627
You are repeating yourself

>> No.7049640
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7049640

>>7049391
I wouldn't know.

>> No.7049646

>>7049614
A book has rules that you say you believe to be the sacred word of God but yet you don't follow them. In my opinion a true religious person has to be like those crazy fucks from Islam.

>> No.7049647

>>7049638

No, I'm repeating the content of your holy book

>> No.7049649

>>7049646
Everyone's a sinner
You sound naive

>> No.7049652

Why /lit/ hate science?

>> No.7049656

>>7049652
what does this have to do with science?

>> No.7049657

>>7049610
Oh wow, you read Wittgenstein's Wikipedia and spent the last 30 minutes trying to describe the poetic mode of existence. You are so smart.

>> No.7049660

>>7049614

Again, if you have no problem with sinning, if you have no problem with picking and choosing between the stuff in the Bible that does and doesn't benefit you, don't complain when other people do the same thing.

I slap stuff like this in your face, because it shows to me very clearly that you're no better than the sinners you condemn.

>> No.7049663

>>7049634
So?

>> No.7049667

>>7049663

So don't condemn others of the things you do yourself tenfold

>> No.7049669

>>7049656
People here always dismiss Science as a way to justify religion and philosophy

>> No.7049670

>>7049660
>I slap stuff like this in your face, because it shows to me very clearly that you're no better than the sinners you condemn.
Actually truthful Christians believe that they are no better then anyone else

>> No.7049673

>>7049391
They feel euphoric, but also hateful and/or condescending towards anyone who thinks different. Even if they don't show it.

Some are nice people, but I can never forget the way I was raised and all the christians I have known. I just have to think of them as the kid brother who still believes in Santa Clause.
This doesn't work in some cases, but it helps. Poor things.

>> No.7049674

>>7049610
embarrassing tbh

>> No.7049675

>>7049673
POST FEET

>> No.7049679

>>7049670

>truthful Christians believe that they are no better then anyone else

Then what business do they have judging others?

>> No.7049686

>>7049667
Where did I do that? I said it's pointless to discuss religion with atheists.

>> No.7049692

>>7049679
but I dont judge u and I cant do anything about the act of others

>> No.7049696

>>7049686

>I said it's pointless to discuss religion with atheists.

Yes, for reasons religious people do tenfold

>> No.7049709

>>7049610
Hello Ludwig

>> No.7049978

>>7049391
If somebody would like to try an argument against Christianity on me then go ahead.

>> No.7049987

>>7049978
there is no god have a nice day

>> No.7049993

>>7049978
if god can exist without a creator then why don't you think the universe can exist without a creator

>> No.7050007

>>7049610
>I see God as a vague spiritual idea that's even less falsifiable than a fundamentalist view
Good for you but that isn't Christianity

>> No.7050008
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7050008

>>7049545
>promote lifestyle that shuns sexual activity as impure
>mfw people believe this is true
it's just about being modest, that's all

>> No.7050022

>>7049669
Because all forms of science are simpmy applied forms of philosophy, read the pre-Socratics to know more.
The problem arises when STEMlords come on here spouting Rote memorized shit they only learned from a textbook because dozens if not hundreds of philosophers opened the way for Logical and Enlightened thought.
Ultimately all rational thought is just applied mathematics but we're not a math board.

>> No.7050025

>>7049993
because i am god

>> No.7050029

>>7049993
because the universe is such that it need a cause, and God is such that it cant have a cause

>> No.7050031

>>7050022
>I prefer to babble about some bullshit instead of learning something useful

>> No.7050032

>>7050008
it's all about being married that's all

>> No.7050034

>>7050029
>because the universe is such that it need a cause, and God is such that it cant have a cause
p gay assumption

>> No.7050041

>>7049993
Because a consequence of the idea that nothing can exist forever is that there absolutely must be one exception, namely God.
He is the exception because rather than being among the strata of contingent things he is the force by which all contingent things gain and retain their contingency.
Basically the logos, the word.

You are comparing God and the universe, but God isn't a distant being off somewhere else, you cannot have the universe without him.

>> No.7050042

>>7050008
>don't fuck before marriage
>don't fuck men
>don't masturbate
>do not have more than one wife or partner
And that's a fairly closed modern reading of the text.
Are you really going to claim that's not sexually repressed? When basic biology, as well as religions and schools of thought around the world and throughout time, have completely thrown that shit out of the window and come of better for it?
>but I do all that anyway its just a sin and sins don't mattet if you're sorry cuz jesus!
What the fuck is even the point of your religion then?
Also Jesus gave explicit rules for following his teachings and they pretty directlt declare that you must donate your wealth to the poor and such. I'm not saying you're not a Christian if you don't do that, but really at what point do you get away with not following the rules and still be 'saved'?

>> No.7050044

>>7049391
It's alright.
>>7049578
That's not a requirement.
>>7049993
The universe is subject to physical limitations, while God isn't necessarily.

>> No.7050051

>>7050029
>is such

And how do you know this of either of those?

>> No.7050053

>>7050031
STEMlord detected
How does it feel to have the entirety of math, biology (including evolution), chemistry, etc. BTFO by the Greeks?
STEM fields may as well be labor jobs, you can be completely replaced by computers in a few years or decades.

>> No.7050054

>>7050034
No he's right.
It is not an assumption, the details are perhaps ineffable when speaking them to someone without a proper respect of paradoxes and mysteries.

>> No.7050058

>>7050044
>That's not a requirement.

Right, because it doesn't benefit you. I'm willing to bet that you believe that everything in the Bible that specifically benefits you are absolute, iron requirements

>> No.7050060

>>7049515
>missionary position with a partner of the opposite sex
>better

>> No.7050064

>>7050029
>God is an intelligent, powerful, infinite and omniscient being
>the Universe is an apparently intelligently arranged, entropic, infinitely expanding body
So why does one NEED to be intelligently created, exactly, and where is your support for that claim?

>> No.7050069

William Lane Craig is posting in this thread.

>> No.7050070

>>7050064
>>the Universe is an apparently intelligently arranged
>>apparently intelligently arranged

Nice question begging

>> No.7050071

>>7050054
>>7050044
>>7050041
okay now prove that this philosophical god cares about dumb apes on a rock and where they put their dicks

>> No.7050072

>>7050042
>Are you really going to claim that's not sexually repressed?
it isnt. those things cant necessarily be good for you.
>When basic biology
did basic biology throw out of the window that peepee+vagoo make babby?

>as well as religions and schools of thought around the world and throughout time, have completely thrown that shit out of the window and come of better for it?
yes. im familiar with islam and mormonism, so what?

>declare that you must donate your wealth to the poor and such.
nah, he told that to the greedy guy who was being destroyed by money.

Wealth is good, at the least is neutral

>> No.7050078

>>7050053
Computers made by philosophers, right?

>> No.7050084

>>7050044
>The universe is subject to physical limitations, while God isn't necessarily
Not according to quantum physics; literally all possibilities (not possibilities in our system of physics, EVERY POSSIBLE HAPPENING) is superimposed at single point, and reality is simply determined as we crosd the threshold of interference.
Basically the universe is omnipotent and not conrticted by physical properties, we simply percieve it to be. The Greeks reached the same conclusions by demonstrating that time could not be moving along a linear line, that distances do not function mathematically, nor does matter.
The ability of the universe to contradict itself means it is just as omnipotent as God.

>> No.7050087

>>7050072
>nah, he told that to the greedy guy who was being destroyed by money

And again, the only reason you suddenly care about the context in this case is because it doesn't benefit you. When it comes to exercising judgement onto others in the Bible, suddenly the context and the specific players in the scene don't matter at all and we need to follow it by the letter.

Can't you see how this has nothing to do with the Bible verses themselves and everything to do with the benefits and rewards you reap from following or not following them?

>> No.7050092

>>7050042
>What the fuck is even the point of your religion then?
Sins hurt you not God. Sexuality is a gift of God given to humans in combination with love and marriage. If you don't follow these instructions you don't live like your designed to

>> No.7050094

>>7050078
Turing was influenced heavily by philosophy during his time inventing some of the basic Turing Machine concepts. Chinese and other Asian learned scholars created the Abaccus, arguably the first computer, centuries ago.
Replicating a computer somebody else invented, adding screens and buttons, etc =/= creating a computer bub.

>> No.7050100

>>7050092
>Sins hurt you not God.

Massive floods also tend to be fairly painful

>> No.7050101

>>7050053
>How does it feel to have the entirety of math, biology (including evolution), chemistry, etc. BTFO by the Greeks?
elaborate

>> No.7050103

>>7050058
>if it doesn't benefit you, you ignore it
You stupid, son?
You know, waiting until marriage is a requirement and I don't feel "benefited" by that.
Likewise for respecting elders, because all of MY elders are horrible people. And I can't even murder them, because that's against the rules, too.
There's also the "10% of your earnings go to the church" thing.
I don't want to, but I do all of these things because the Bible tells me to. It does not say anywhere that you have to give all of your belongings to the poor. If that were the case, wouldn't they then have to give up the belongings if they decided to follow Christ as a result of your charity?

>> No.7050104

>>7050060
homosexual pls leave

>> No.7050111

>>7050100
>I've never seen a rainbow

>> No.7050112

>>7050087
>When it comes to exercising judgement onto others
what judgements are you talking about? homos?

you dont have to be a christian to know homosex is bad, Socrates, Plato and Aristotle knew it, and the Neoplatonists and Stoics did too.

>> No.7050114

>>7050092
But if none of God's rules matter, if all you have to do is be saved, then God has no power, or else no judgment. So how is he God?
On the other hand, if you admit that God's rules must be followed and admit that the current trend of creating excuses for them is wrong, then you can't cherrypick the Bible anymore and now you've gotta rape non-believers or else you're not Christian.

Modern readings and teachings of the Bible literally have no meaning. Nothing the Bible says matters because it's been picked apart and excuses made for so much of it, why would the rest have any value?
Throwing out the old Hebrew teachings of Leviticus I can understand, but at this point you're weaseling around even the direct words of Jesus.

>> No.7050122

>>7050071
He must care.
The thing we just described is care itself, love itself.

>> No.7050123

>>7050101
Greek pre-Socratics basically predicted modern scientific findings centuries ago sheerly out of logic without hardly any tools or prior education, while modern day STEMlords slave around with empirical systems absolutely getting nowhere fast in regards to many sciences.
It's a "can't see the forests for the trees" scenario and it's being held up by empiricist circular logic. "You can't prove anything without empirical data because only empirical data is proof! It said so in my textbook!"

>> No.7050128

>>7050114
>But if none of God's rules matter
I didn't say they don't matter.

>if all you have to do is be saved, then God has no power, or else no judgment. So how is he God?
What?

>then you can't cherrypick the Bible anymore
Correct.

>now you've gotta rape non-believers or else you're not Christian.
You mean the infamous rape thy neighbour command? That's why I said it's pointless to discuss with atheists they just pull shit out ther ass as they wish.

>Modern readings and teachings of the Bible literally have no meaning.
Agree.

>Nothing the Bible says matters because it's been picked apart and excuses made for so much of it, why would the rest have any value?
Again what?

>Throwing out the old Hebrew teachings of Leviticus I can understand
If you read the thing in it's entierity it's fairly obvious with rules still apply.

>but at this point you're weaseling around even the direct words of Jesus.
I don't I'm not the guy claiming it's okay not to donate if you think that and I think he's wrong

>> No.7050131

>>7050123
You mean thy guessed atoms? How does that BTFO science?

>> No.7050134

>>7050103
>"10% of your earnings go to the church"
Literally why
Jesus didn't say jack shit about Churches. He was Jewish. He wanted you to donate to the Temple, which if you aren't Jewish why would you? He didn't tell the Romans he spoke to to do that.
Shit like that is exactly the cherry picking we're talking about. It's being, and historically has been, propagated by churches to keep themselves and their authority afloat even though it has no basis in Scripture
>but my pastor said
Your pastor works for the institution taking that money. He's a propaganda mouthpiece. His job is LITERALLY to make you feel happy, Scripturally he has no reason for being.

>> No.7050136

>>7050122
then why are you fat and a virgin

>> No.7050138

>>7050084
Just so you know, unstable quantum vacuum states are still subject to physical governance.

>> No.7050144

>>7049391

Why did it take the left so many years to start shitting on New Atheists?
Weren't they aware of their existence before 2008?

>> No.7050145

>>7050103
>You know, waiting until marriage is a requirement and I don't feel "benefited" by that.

Wait, I thought atheists were all horrible virgins with stupid hats and that that was the real reason why they're completely wrong about everything? Now purity is suddenly something noble?

>Likewise for respecting elders, because all of MY elders are horrible people.

This one isn't moral, this is just stupid, you're basically setting yourself up to be abused and taken advantage of

>There's also the "10% of your earnings go to the church" thing.

I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be 100% of your earnings

>I don't want to, but I do all of these things because the Bible tells me to.

Which is a pisspoor reason to do anything. You should do things because they make the world a better place.

>It does not say anywhere that you have to give all of your belongings to the poor.

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. - Matthew 19:21

Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. - Luke 12:33

See that? It states 'Sell that ye have', not 'Sell about 1/10 that ye have or something, I don't know, whatever's fine with you'.

You simply want to be seen as some Mother Theresa without going all the way. You love to brag about how good and how moral you really are, but you're not prepared to go all the way. Why not give away 20% of your income? Why not 50%? What, is the risk of eternal damnation worth that little to you? This is your eternal soul we're talking about, you know.

This is why I will never ever feel morally inferior to any of you religious lot, because deep down inside, I know what this is really all about. This is all about wanting to talk the talk without having to do the walk. At least I don't go around telling people how much better I am morally to people. You, on the other hand, hold and judge others to a moral standard you yourself halfassedly follow, and when people catch you red handed, we get handwaving and muh metaphor, muh context. How pitiful

>> No.7050150

>>7050136
1.) I'm not fat
2.) There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a virgin

>> No.7050152

>>7050134
Temple and Church are interchangeable if both teach Christianity. And Jesus did tell people to donate, but the number of 10% is a holdover from Old Testament.
>>but my pastor said
Actually, my pastor teaches against giving any exact amount, and I happen to disagree with him.

>> No.7050155

>>7050128
>>if all you have to do is be saved, then God has no power, or else no judgment. So how is he God?
*apologise to be saved, typo

>You mean the infamous rape thy neighbour command?
In Leviticus it is stated you can rape, pillage and kill non-believers. If you're going to take any part of the Old Testament, let's say Genesis, as true then how can you cherrypick and not take Leviticus?
That's what I mean when I say that the Bible has lost all meaning, people have been selecting and revising and excluding passages for their own benefit for so long that today a modern reading of the Bible as taught by 99% of pastors just throws almost the entire damn thing out.

It is absolutely possible for the individual to produce their own unique reading of the text to live by, and I say all religious people should, but by then you're literally not even Christian, for better or worse.

>> No.7050160

>>7050123
and how would you go about proving something without empirical data?

>> No.7050161

>>7050150
warm pussy is superior to jesus

>> No.7050172

>>7050131
>guessed
They arrived at the conclusion of atomic physics through logical, falsifiable, and defensible thought. They didn't 'guess' it anymore than Darwin 'guessed' about Natural Selection you revisionist.
Only centuries later scientists came with their microscopes and redundantly proved something already demonstrably true and then proceeded to shit all over philosophy as though it hadn't already made them obsolete (though to be fair this culture clash is largely post-Enlightenment).

Scientists jobs have largely already been done for them, but they're too empirically chained to realize that.

>> No.7050177

>>7050152
Temples don't and never have taught Christianity, even messianic Jews don't outright confirm Christ as the Messiah.
Jesus never spoke on or about his teachings becoming the ground for an organized religion, in fact he called people to leave their religious ties and go with him as individuals.

>> No.7050181

>>7050160
Through logic, which is just applied mathematics.
Unless you are of the school of thought that objectivity is impossible, but then empiricism is still meaningless.

>> No.7050184

why are christians always lame faggots or women

>> No.7050188

>>7050155
You have to regret. That includes not doing it again. You can't just say Sorry brah get a free ticket.

>In Leviticus it is stated you can rape, pillage and kill non-believers.
Source?

>If you're going to take any part of the Old Testament, let's say Genesis, as true then how can you cherrypick and not take Leviticus?
You have to take all of it. But in context. Again playing stupid isn't going to convince anybody it's just annoying

>Bible has lost all meaning, people have been selecting and revising and excluding passages for their own benefit for so long that today a modern reading of the Bible as taught by 99% of pastors just throws almost the entire damn thing out.
How does that discredit the source material?

>It is absolutely possible for the individual to produce their own unique reading of the text to live by, and I say all religious people should, but by then you're literally not even Christian, for better or worse.
What? Being Christian is about whether or not you believe in Jesus Christ being God. Everything else falls into place depending on that

>> No.7050190
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7050190

>>7049391
Daily reminder to pray for the fedoras

>> No.7050192

>>7050145
>now purity is suddenly something noble?
No, just a rule to follow. The dude calling atheists virgins as if it's a bad thing wasn't even me.
>do things because they make the world a better place
Without religion, there is no obligation to do this. Also, what if I believe following the Bible will make the world better?
>see that? It states "sell that ye have"
That was specifically a guy whose possessions were keeping him from the faith. List of people who were called faithful believers but were not asked to give up their stuff: Jesus' parents, Mary Magdalene, the Centurion whose kid almost died, Lazarus. There's probably more, but I can't name them off the top of my head.
>You simply want to be seen as moral
Not the objective. Jesus said that the world might hate me, and I was prepared for that when I signed up.
>Why not give away more?
Right now, I don't have a reason outside of I don't want to, but practically speaking a lot of people have families to feed and put a roof over. There's a reason none of Jesus' apostles were married with kids.
>this is why I will never feel morally inferior
I don't want you to feel inferior. I want you to not go to hell.

>> No.7050197

>>7050190
Daily reminder to turn the other cheek, you cuck.

>> No.7050201

>>7050172
>They arrived at the conclusion of atomic physics through logical, falsifiable, and defensible thought
I know I read the pre-socratics

>you revisionist
Not arguing with you. Asking about how you got your conclusion

>and then proceeded to shit all over philosophy
I like philosophy bruh

>as though it hadn't already made them obsolete (though to be fair this culture clash is largely post-Enlightenment).
HOW?

>> No.7050202

>>7050177
>follow Jesus as individuals
Outside of Catholics, I wouldn't call the myriad of Churches organised in the way of, say, Islam.
Church buildings aren't supposed to be HQ buildings for a conspiracy, but to help people follow Jesus as an individual. Those that don't, which may be most, have lost their way. This doesn't make those that teach in or attend them any less saved, but it definitely is not a good thing.

>> No.7050203

>>7050060
tbh this

>> No.7050205
File: 288 KB, 806x784, 6OiqHEv.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7050205

I still can't believe that these bait threads get so many replies. Good thing summer is ending soon

>> No.7050211

>>7050188
>That includes not doing it again.
So you don't masturbate, having messed up once and being corrected? Or envy your neighbor? Or any of those millions of minor transgressions?
If you honestly don't, or try not to sin, then you probably realize the idiocy in believing an omniscient God gives a fuck what you do.

>But in context
That's fine for Leviticus, but what about Jesus's commands to donate your wealth, or remove markets from holy places, or any of the other things he is quoted to have said that are glossed over by most modern readings?
Again, it's entirely possible to follow these teachings. But it effectively excludes the individual from the organization and at that point calling yourself Christian is silly.

>How does that discredit the Source material?
The Source material has no credit. It's just a text written by people who may or may not have known Jesus 2,000 years ago. It is given credence only by the actions of those of the faith, and for hundreds of years their actions and teachings have been contradictory to the text.

>Being Christian is about wether or not you believe in Jesus Christ.
Uh, no, anon, it isn't. The Bible outright states specific things you must do to follow Jesus's teachings and gain salvation. If you're going to ignore those and base your belief on salvation through faith alone, why even reas the Bible or call yourself Christian? You're not following the message of the text.

>> No.7050213
File: 14 KB, 416x234, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7050213

>>7049602
Reminder that atheists always have the best rebuttals

>> No.7050216

>>7050205
It's just an honest question.

>> No.7050231

>>7050201
Logical thought as an extension of objective mathematics makes empirical science obsolete on the grounds that empirical evidence is not needed to reach the same conclusions, or defend the same conclusions, as those reached by logic. Logic is a self-evident process, like any math.
Furthermore, empirical science has gone very far to regress and even damage the growth of human discovery by excluding from the discussion any product of logical reasoning not already upheld by empirical data. The empiricist voice is slowing the rate of human progress down from the speed of our minds to the speed of our hands, and that deceleration is asymptotal, as eventually we may reach a point where nothing new can be found empirically without an explosion in abstract thought that will, by that time, be repressed.

>> No.7050233

>>7050192
>Without religion, there is no obligation to do this.

So you can't come up on your own that helping people is a good thing, because it could be you at some point in life who might need help?

>Also, what if I believe following the Bible will make the world better?

I highly doubt that, since the people who wrote the Bible rejoice in the thought of the world ending

>That was specifically a guy whose possessions were keeping him from the faith.

And again, you point out the hypocritical and sudden impulse of caring very specifically about the context when a Bible verse threatens to be a disadvantage for you. When it's stuff you benefit from, the context never matters.

>I don't want you to feel inferior. I want you to not go to hell.

Which you seem to have an equal chance of as I do, since you pick and choose just as much as I do

>> No.7050234

>>7049696
But he didn't do that.
So you're just mad.
About other people.
People who do not convey or represent the key ideas of Christianity.
This is a straw Christianity that you are angry at.
Meanwhile his claim about the vexation of arguing the divine with atheists is here and now proving to be quite true.

>> No.7050240

>>7049978
Seeing as there are hundreds of religions on Earth, what makes your religion the "right one".

Hard mode: Don't reply with giant, easily confusing words. I hate when people cover their weak reasoning with massive words.

>> No.7050243

>>7050202
Churches literally exist as foundations for tax exemptions. That's it.
Yes the groups of peoples within Churches may do much good for the world, but that is a function of the people, not the Church.
It's no conspiracy either, it's basic law running back to Jesus' time and its why he ruined the market tables in the Temple. Jesus despised the Pharisees and their economic control of the religious individual.

>> No.7050253
File: 1.84 MB, 325x244, 1415745064516.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7050253

>>7050240
>Don't reply with giant, easily confusing words.
kek, are you in 4th grade or something, fam?

>> No.7050256

>>7050211
>So you don't masturbate, having messed up once and being corrected?
Yes.

>Or envy your neighbor?
I don't. I'm not a child

>Or any of those millions of minor transgressions?
Like?

>If you honestly don't, or try not to sin
Try is the key word. Religious or not how can you not see that not doing bad things is a good thing to do?

>the idiocy in believing an omniscient God gives a fuck what you do
Why?

>what about Jesus's commands to donate your wealth, or remove markets from holy places, or any of the other things he is quoted to have said that are glossed over by most modern readings?
Nothing. That's bad I agree. BUT CHRISTIANS DON'T FOLLOWING JESUS DISCREDITS THOSE CHRISTIANS NOT JESUS

>But it effectively excludes the individual from the organization and at that point calling yourself Christian is silly.
No tbh.

>It's just a text written by people
I believe otherwise. Not that hard.

>It is given credence only by the actions of those of the faith
Kind of the point of religion huh?

>and for hundreds of years their actions and teachings have been contradictory to the text.
WHICH I DON'T APPROVE

>Uh, no, anon, it isn't
It is.

>The Bible outright states specific things you must do to follow Jesus's teachings and gain salvation
Yes. Are you retarded? If you believe Jesus is God you automatically have to believe he knows best how to live as his creation. Or the parts where he says it's easy to obey his rules

>If you're going to ignore those
I don't

>You're not following the message of the text.
You're either stupid or doing this on purpose. I said you're Christian if you believe in Christ not a Church. I said following Christ's rules comes automatically out of this not that it's okay to abandon them

>> No.7050258

>>7050253
Honestly, this tbh
Debaters should beg for sophistry, it's si easy to discredit and helps damage your opponents' character without exposing yourself to fallacy.

>> No.7050268

>>7050231
I disagree

>> No.7050271

>>7050240
It's the one about worshipping Christ

>> No.7050274

>>7050243
epic

>> No.7050285

if god exists outside of space and time then how does he poop
if he can't poop then why do you think he thinks
the digestive system exists in space and time
the nervous system exists in space and time

>> No.7050291

I just can't take Christians seriously.

The Bible is a selection of books put together by MEN. Years have passed and the book has been edited again, whole books removed. BY MEN.

It's utter absurdity to be a Christian. If you believe in some kind of god, fine. But the "Christian god" is an absolute farce.

>> No.7050292

can god fart a fart so smelly that it makes him puke

>> No.7050294

Can god create a superior god?

>> No.7050298

>>7050285
>>7050291
>>7050292
>>7050294
The reddit squad is here to save the day

>> No.7050299

>>7050256
Jesus outright stated that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle (read: literally impossible) than a rich man to go to heaven.
He also stated several other rules and regulations for following his teachings (not him as a religious figure, but his teachings about how to live a good life), such as Communion of the Last Supper.

The Christian Church went back after the fact and canonized his teachings, saying if you don't do exactly all the things he said, you cannot be saved. Other Churches since have revised this to the religious equivalent of "just b urself :^)"

If you do not believe that you must follow Jesus's teachings exactly to be saved, why call yourself Christian? Believing that all you must do is repent is not the definition of Christianity; it is at best a modern revisionist label. Why go to Church and partake in all of the bastardized mess of it at all? Personal question there, as someone who was raised Christian I'd just like to hear the opinion of someone who seems to be capable of rational thought and actually tries to follow the Scripture.

>The idiocy in believing an etc etc
Really? You don't find it the slightest bit rich that an omniscient being cares if you wack yourself off? Even if that's been shown to actually be healthy?
One of the biggest questions centered on Religious texts of all kinds has always been 'why does your God care?', hand in hand with 'why is your God right?' and there have rarely, if ever, been good answers for either.

>> No.7050304

Can god kill himself? And if he does, what happens?

>> No.7050306

>>7050233
>because it might be you at some point
This argument is based on kindness, of which there is no obligation without religion. Also, if people are so kind all on their own, they'll help me even if I'm not.
>the people who wrote the Bible rejoice at the world ending
Alright at this point you're choosing not to understand.
>hypocritical and sudden impulse...of caring about context when it's disadvantageous
I literally just gave a whole list of instances where the Bible inconveniences and even angers me that I still follow out of love for the Lord. Another disadvantage of the Bible that I will follow anyway is not calling you all the names I really want to for how ignorant you're being.
>you pick and choose as much as I do
Name one instance in any of my arguments where I did this. Or where you did this, for that matter, because you disbelieve the whole thing.

>> No.7050308

>>7050268
Care to retort?
>>7050274
Calm your autism son, the position of the Church as a haven for tax exclusion has roots in the religious communities of every ancient civilization. Even a theologist or preacher will admit that, it's common knowledge. Sheathe your fedora.

>> No.7050310

How Can God Be Real If Our Soul Isn't Real

>> No.7050312

It's obvious that god isn't real, but that doesn't mean that religion is a bad thing. And there's no reason to make fun of people who think that god isn't real.

>> No.7050313

>>7050299
>Jesus outright stated that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle (read: literally impossible) than a rich man to go to heaven.
>He also stated several other rules and regulations for following his teachings (not him as a religious figure, but his teachings about how to live a good life), such as Communion of the Last Supper.
Yes he did.

>The Christian Church went back after the fact and canonized his teachings, saying if you don't do exactly all the things he said, you cannot be saved. Other Churches since have revised this to the religious equivalent of "just b urself :^)"
And?

>If you do not believe that you must follow Jesus's teachings exactly to be saved, why call yourself Christian?
Stopped reading here. FUCK YOU. 3 times in the post you quoted I said you have to follow his teachings. Go troll someone on /b/ faggot

>> No.7050314

Is God a virgin?

>> No.7050324

>>7050313
No, you've said that you have to simply believe in God/Jesus and repent for your sins. Which if that is your personal reading of the text then great. But that's not what the text literally says.

If you haven't actually given away all your wealth or taken Communion every passover, then you shouldn't call yourself Christian, you should simply maintain your own personal beliefs and stop contributing to Church revisionism.

>> No.7050325

>>7050314
In what sense? I mean he impregnated Mary, so if that's all you mean, then no. But in terms of the actual act of intercourse with the penis and the sperm and such he is. He will never have sex because he doesn't need to to create something and he has no desire for sexual pleasure.

>> No.7050327

>>7050299
>>7050313
>Why go to Church and partake in all of the bastardized mess of it at all? Personal question there, as someone who was raised Christian I'd just like to hear the opinion of someone who seems to be capable of rational thought and actually tries to follow the Scripture.
Actually I should have kept reading. The church is a community of people in the same faith. I see it as a mere discussion or inspiration than a "here's how to do it".

>Really? You don't find it the slightest bit rich that an omniscient being cares if you wack yourself off? Even if that's been shown to actually be healthy?
That's what my original post was about. You don't hurt God if you masturbate you hurt yourself.

>One of the biggest questions centered on Religious texts of all kinds has always been 'why does your God care?'
Love. Like a parent

>'why is your God right?'
I started caring for religion reading about historical Jesus not the other way round. But that's just me

>> No.7050329

>>7050298
Whatever you say, virgin.

>> No.7050333

>>7050325
How can you claim to know his desires?

>> No.7050334

>>7050308
The church is the community of people believing. Why tax them? On their thoughts?

>> No.7050336

>>7050299
>Jesus outright stated that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle

You don't know what Jesus actually said, you idiot. That's why the whole concept is shit.

>> No.7050337

the worst thing about being a Christian is that the "Reformed" ones are the loudest, really

>> No.7050340

>>7050324
Still not the guy with the wealth. I said you have to follow Jesus rules not the Churches'

>> No.7050346

>>7050240
Let us do a comparison.

Thor is a deification of a natural phenomena and so are other greek mythological figures, they were used as an explanation for these phenomena, and subsequently died out with the rise of scientific discovery.

The japanese have "kami," which are like nature spirits, also deprecated by science, but they still continue in the tradition even though nobody seriously believes in them.

The buddhists don't really claim anything, except that there is no absolute, they claim "a way" but not "the way."
Very tempting to the agnostic due to pseudoscientific life-energy lore.

There are many more, yes, but the thing they all have in common is that none of them have any kind of long-standing intellectual tradition such as is seen in the abrahamic religions, this is because the abrahamic God can be the only God by his very nature, so the abrahamic religions are concerned with the study of intrinsic and profound analyses of the creative act.

Islam, however, is theologically unsound, and irreconcilable with modern science (for instance, their holy books say that john invented Christianity but never saw Christ, which is not the academic consensus on the subject), because their holy books step on science it can be said that they were not divinely inspired.

Judaism is actually just a fake pharisaic cult propagated early on by canaanites and edomites and other turkish race-mixers who now have convinced themselves and the rest of the world that they are the chosen people (see: the state of isreal), when they are not from the tribes of judah or even the southern kingdom of judah.

I suggest reading the church fathers.
Augustine, origen, john chrysostom etc.

>> No.7050348

>>7050334
I never said they should be taxed, simply that the institutio, of organized religion has used tax exemption as a means of self-preservation since ancient times.
There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's naive to believe the end goal of any major religious institution in to spread rainbows and unicorn farts.
The same is true of most Charity organizations as well.

>>7050336
So are you arguing that the Bible is meaningless because we can't source it? I'm simply using the same body of evidence the Christian populace tends to use.

>> No.7050355

>>7050333
Well he says as much in The Bible.

>> No.7050356

>>7050346
>Judaism is actually just a fake pharisaic cult propagated early on by canaanites and edomites and other turkish race-mixers who now have convinced themselves and the rest of the world that they are the chosen people (see: the state of isreal), when they are not from the tribes of judah or even the southern kingdom of judah.
You just attacked the believers instead of the religion itself

>> No.7050357

>>7050340
>I said you have to follow Jesus rules not the Churches'
Then how are you Christian? Christianity as a concept is an invention of the Church of Antioch, not Jesus. You shouldn't be a part of mass organized religion, Jesus himself often fought against the organized Temple, and by going to Church you're honestly being fed a bastardization of the Bible.
Having your own personal belief is fine, but don't glob onto organized religion as a means of vendication or out of a feeling of obligation.

>> No.7050362
File: 181 KB, 640x480, [Frightened].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7050362

>>7050357
What is the point of this thread?

>> No.7050363

>>7050357
>>I said you have to follow Jesus rules not the Churches'
>Then how are you Christian?
Consult a doctor

>> No.7050369

>>7050362
I think OP wanted to have an ebin screencap for r/4chan and r/atheism
I'm just having a discussion using logic and a body of, admittedly, non-objective evidence.
I'm not trying to convert anybody or 'troll' anybody.

>> No.7050374 [SPOILER] 
File: 513 KB, 190x199, 1440956619748.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7050374

>>7050369
Thanks for the honest answer. And I got one last question, what is love?

>> No.7050375

>>7050348
I'm not arguing that the Bible is meaningless. There is plenty of meaning in the stories. But *as a source* it's not incredibly trustworthy given the fact that stories were taken out where Christ supposedly said other things. And MEN, not God or Christ, decided which books stayed in and which got taken out. And this happened multiple times, this process of editing and selecting.

The popular edits of the Bible have stood the test of time for a reason, but that reason has nothing to do with the actual truth of what Jesus Christ actually said, if he said anything.

That's why the whole thing is deeply flawed. It's faith based on the editorial judgement of a handful of powerful circles.

>> No.7050378

>>7050363
Jesus didn't dick about being 'Christian'. He converted people to Judaism. Christianity was invented a few years after the fact by the Apostles and popularized by the Church of Antioch, to the best of our knowledge.
Are you actually this historically inept?

>> No.7050384

>>7050357
>Jesus fought against the organized temple
Yeah, because they were exploiting people and being self-righteous, not because he didn't want an organized church. However, he DID say "Where two or more are gathered in my name, there I will be."(St. Matthew 18:20) I think this ENCOURAGES a church.

>> No.7050386

>>7050375
Right, and I'm not sure where you got lost in the reply chain but I'm not Christian.
As I said, I was just using the text as the body of evidence because that's what Christians are familiar and accepting to.

>> No.7050393

>>7050362
I just wanted to talk to y'all

>> No.7050394

>>7050378
>Christianity was invented a few years
weeks. It wasn't invented. It merely describes believing in Jesus

>Are you actually this historically inept?
Are you misunderstanding words?

>> No.7050397

>>7050384
It encourages gathered discussion, not an institution or denomination. It's still important to realize that the Church, as with any institution of organized religion, will innately carry political and economical baggage irrelevant to the teaching of religion, and Jesus was acutely aware of this.

Jesus also said he'd be there alongside each individual who followed him, so he's just as much for individual practice which has become obsolete in the face of the Church community.

>> No.7050404

>makes these threads
>complains about christfags shitposting
Just to give you an idea of the level of intellect you're debating here. The atheists that participate in these threads are either trolls or certifiable retards. I say that as an atheist.

sage btw not /lit/

>> No.7050407

>>7050313
HOW DARE YOU

>> No.7050409

>>7050404
>I'm completely late to the discussion and will now proceed to shitpost
Cool
And this is certainly /lit/, a lot of the discussion itt has centered on the interpretation and validity of a body of text.

>> No.7050411

CELESTIAL NORTH KOREA

>> No.7050421

>>7050386
Ha, sorry about that. I've had a few and just happened to stumble on to the end of this thread.

>> No.7050422

>>7050409
>discussion


see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTYYK1LevAE

>> No.7050429

>>7050397
>gathered discussion, not an institution
Not mutually exclusive. I don't know where you went to church, but the only political thing I was ever taught by my pastor was "vote for the least godless person if you can."
>individual practice has become obsolete in the face of the church community
Incorrect. Any church that's not blatantly manipulative will tell you to do both.

>> No.7050430

>>7050422
Haha nice meem dude :^)
Upboated~!

>> No.7050446

>>7050404
So the Bible isn't /lit/?

>> No.7050453

>>7050429
>any church that's not blatantly manipulative
Every church is inherently manipulative as a means of self-preservation. Not to the level of the Renaissance Catholic Orthodoxy, of course, but they do have to take in money to survive.
The lack of home study of rekigious text is more a cultural phenomenon than a religious one, to be fair, but the Church is held aloft by the individuals whose knowledge of their text acts to moderate any potential manipulation if the text. People, especially Christians, are becoming less self-reliant in their studues and the Church is becoming more and more a de facto controller of religious interpretation.

Also, your anecdote about how your Church was totally apolitical is bullshit. You are memetically exposed to religious, political, economic, and other lines of thinking in the Church almost as much as in school; more depending on your faith.

>> No.7050458

>>7050453
*religious
Ach, fucking phone

>> No.7050462

>>7050446
>Christfags, how does it feel to be wrong 24/7?
This board is dedicated to reading. Tel me, do you see the bible mentioned or discussed in that OP?

le fedora vs le christfags is the /lit/ equivalent of /v/'s console wars.

>> No.7050473

>>7050462
OP is a faggot
That does not exclude any possible discussion in his thread from being on-topic

>> No.7050481

>>7050453
>apolitical
Dude, "least godless" . That's kind of a political stance. Don't accuse me of lying just because your experience with churchgoers led you to believe that we're always fundamentalist conservative republicans.

>> No.7050502

>>7050481
>fundamentalist conservative republicans.
I never said that

>> No.7050509

>>7050502
I made an assumption.

>> No.7050515

>>7050453
Meme? This is pseudo-science sir...

>> No.7050520

>>7050515
>the proliferation and mutation of ideas through indirect communication
It's memetics whatever you call it

>> No.7050524
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7050524

>>7050356
They barely believe in their religion.
The pharisees taught pretty much an intellectual flavor of the old testament, and then after Christ was crucified they started writing books about him boiling in hot excrement and being a liar etc and to this day they update their holy books with scholarly opinions (which usually reflect the sentiments of atheists).
Also, judaism is secret, nobody can know it but them, and only through an extravagant initiation procedure.
Because of its highly intellectual nature, it integrates well with our education system.
So this "judaism" isn't even a religion, it's some kind of geo-academic pharisaic bohemianism that corrupts everything it touches.

>> No.7050555
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7050555

>>7050524
>The pharisees taught pretty much an intellectual flavor of the old testament, and then after Christ was crucified they started writing books about him boiling in hot excrement and being a liar etc and to this day they update their holy books with scholarly opinions (which usually reflect the sentiments of atheists).
>this entire sentence and all of its implications

/pol/, have you been drinking again?

>> No.7050561
File: 49 KB, 640x307, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7050561

>>7050253
I'm just trying to prevent misnomers. I've noticed that a lot of religious people love to make vauge, stubbornly complex statements in order to reaffirm that they are indeed correct.
Ex: included pic
Your answer should be precise and easy to understand. This is a debate, not some philosophy jerk circle.

>> No.7050580

>>7050561
>confusing philosophy for sophistry

>> No.7050592

>>7050555
>what is talmud

>> No.7050598

>>7049515
>Catholics have better sex
>only allowed to have sex through a hole cut along a Templar tunic in the dark
oh please.

>> No.7050599

>>7050561
That guy in the picture is completely right.
You literally just cannot understand.
Not that understanding is very important, the fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom.

>> No.7050600

>>7049391
But we aren't.

>> No.7050601
File: 639 KB, 750x1117, 1430258197486.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7050601

>> No.7050607

>>7049646

No where does it say you only enter heaven with 100% on your life report card in fact it makes explicit mention of human error and sin.

>> No.7050609

>>7049391
>posts a meme scientist that literally came up with the word meme, and stole the name of the father of genetics, who was actually a devoted christian.

>> No.7050611

>>7050592

Something that never takes precedent over the Torah, something that never reflects the sentiments of atheists and something that /pol/ invariably quotes completely wrong

Anything else? Did those mean kikes abduct your neighbor's kid as well to kill it during Passover?

>> No.7050614

>>7049550
groupthink imprinted at a young age, typically, with some exceptions of people going through near-death experiences and being scared into believing there has to be something else out there and that can't be the end

>> No.7050618

>>7050609
What does that have to do with anything?

>> No.7050619

>>7050598
That's only the Swiss that do that, not all Catholics.

>> No.7050622

>>7049634

It’s good to know the common atheist hasn't grown beyond "you too..
chebmake"

>> No.7050624

>>7050618
It's the average atheist poster that has guy hated in the biology community as their idol.

>> No.7050629

>>7050624

And how does being hated make anything he says factually wrong?

>> No.7050631

>>7049673

Daily reminder most atheists just have issues with their parents

>> No.7050633

>>7050622

Way to completely miss the point of that post

>> No.7050639

>>7050561
how is your pic complex?

>> No.7050640

>>7050611
>Something that never takes precedent over the Torah
It's holy. I expected YOU to know Chaim

>something that never reflects the sentiments of atheists
Of course not ;)

>/pol/ invariably quotes completely wrong
Quoting it right is bad enough

>> No.7050643

>>7050629
He has to do something to be right first. Only the "i luv science" crowd loves him. The guy is an imbecile, his papers are garbage, and all he does is bash religious people. He's a disgrace to the biology community, which I'm a part of.

>> No.7050644

>>7050631
Daily reminder that most Christians just have issues with their preacher touching them :^)

>> No.7050650

>>7050644
Pedophilia is less common inside the church then outisde.
What did daddy do to you hun?

>> No.7050665

>>7050643
>which I'm a part of.

Sure you are

>> No.7050672

>>7050650
>pedophilia is less common in a cross-section of the population than in the entire population
Wow really?

>> No.7050676

>>7050614
wow ur pretty smart you know me better than I do I just haven't realized it all these years and neither did my 2000-year old church.
If only all those martyrs would have realized they were jus baised an indoctrinated then they could have lived and smoked weed togeher.
It's just like mark says, christianity is the opium of everybody but me.

>> No.7050680

>>7050665
Molecular biologist here spending my internship in pharmacology research right now. What have you done with your life?

>> No.7050681

>>7050672
In percentage you retard

>> No.7050685

>>7050022
>Ultimately all rational thought is just applied mathematics

Except for logic. Which, you know, isn't math, and is necessary for everything.

Also applied math has very little to do with rationality directly, it's about formulating good solutions to real problems.