/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7043056]

Why aren't nihilists and all you other atheists taking life to its logical conclusion and just live an insane life with carnal pleasures at every turn? Why do you have any regard for fellow human beings when you might as well use them to maximize your enjoyment?

[AZAZAZAZAZAZAZAZA No.7043059]

Atheists aren't doing it right.

[Anonymous No.7043060]

>>7043056
Restart with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.7043064]

Have you considered that giving other people enjoyment might be more enjoyable than pure carnal pleasure? Or that some persue slower, deeper enjoyment such has having families or gaining knowledge?

[Anonymous No.7043065]

>>7043064

Most people annoy me.

[Anonymous No.7043066]

>>7043060
Plz be in Sinope.

[Anonymous No.7043067]

>>7043056
nihilism=/=hedonism

[Anonymous No.7043069]

>>7043056

Because we just like to think we're edgy. In practice we're just like all the plebs we pretend we're above.

Oh - wait. I mean Christian/moralfag get off my board...

[Anonymous No.7043072]

Just saying you don't believe in nothing doesn't make it so. People believe in a lot of things and consider a lot of things, people are human, and thus, emotional, sexual, intelectual and corporally present and engaged in the world.

Also, most self proclaimed atheists are not atheists at all, they hold the same superstitions with other names to it, still thinking in terms of "creation", "laws" and projecting will onto objects or even abstract things.

[Anonymous No.7043078]

>insanity
>carnal pleasures
>taking life to its logical conclusion

whats it like being underage b&

[Anonymous No.7043081]

>>7043066
ΑΘΗΝΑΙ
Θ
Η
Ν
Ι

[Anonymous No.7043086]

>>7043056

Sympathy, decency and basic human emotion stops us from doing those things. Also, no one is truly a nihilist.

[Anonymous No.7043088]

>>7043086
>Also, no one is truly a nihilist.
Elaborate, you baiting fuck.

[Anonymous No.7043096]

They haven't realized yet that guilt, shame and compassion aren't real emotions.

[Anonymous No.7043097]

>>7043064

I mean I do use people for my enjoyment and often times they just so happen to enjoy it too when I do it, because I surround myself with people whom I like.
Perfect example is sex.
You could say I'm using a girl ( which some SJW would claim ), but at the same time I'm giving her an orgasm by fucking her insanely.
So yeah, there's that, an involuntary transaction that just so happens to benefit both.

[Anonymous No.7043099]

>>7043086
>Sympathy, decency and basic human emotion

>conventional wisdom 2: electric tumblroo

[Anonymous No.7043101]

>>7043086
>implying someone like her would understand even a single line of Ethics

[Anonymous No.7043105]

Sex is disgusting.

[Anonymous No.7043107]

>>7043097
Yeah, but that's one of those 'can you truly be altruistic' questions. You could argue the same about a nurse who gets enjoyment from helping people, or really anyone who gains pleasure from social experiences.

[Anonymous No.7043113]

>>7043088

Every human accepts the existence of good and evil - they're biologically hardwired. I could go into some detail but I'm blotto and it will no doubt be pointless, given so many edgy contrarians populate this board and maintain the pretense to ridiculous lengths (e.g. "genocide can be justified").

Basically, without the confines of an innate human morality we couldn't even be having these discussions in the first place. We all implicitly accept certain things - good and evil chief among them.

[Anonymous No.7043114]

>>7043107
I'm someone who's argued that the vast-majority of human action is egoistic, i.e. we get pleasure from doing an act, and that pleasure is the motivator for the act; however, there HAS to be altruistic acts otherwise it becomes tautological.

I reconcile that altruistic acts must, therefore, exist in a state of apathy, i.e. free from emotion, otherwise it's egoism at work.

This begs the question: why act if you don't care?

Not sure if there's an answer, but altruism does exist -- it's just rare.

[Anonymous No.7043115]

>>7043065
Every time I hear this it's usually from somebody who complains all day and puts in 0 effort in making a social life for themselves. Gotta give value to get value.

[Anonymous No.7043119]

>>7043097
wait, you live through girls ?

[Anonymous No.7043125]

because you can only enjoy carnal pleasures for so long before you get bored of it

same thing with eating your favorite food every day, that's why restraint can be a good thing

[Anonymous No.7043139]

>>7043101

funny

>>7043114

Read Jonathan Haidt. He's a well respected moral psychologist who has collected some convincing data demonstrating that most altruistic acts are driven by emotion (suggesting altruism has proven evolutionarily advantageous).

[Anonymous No.7043143]

>>7043078

Was Dostjevski underage when he made somewhat the same conclusion?

[Anonymous No.7043145]

>>7043113
But nihilism doesn't deny there a subjective concept of good and evil, it - as far as you can unify it into one single claim - only maintains that those value judgements can't be attributed to a final objective principle.

[Anonymous No.7043147]

>>7043139
>that most altruistic acts are driven by emotion

Then I would classify it as egoistic.

I'm not saying egoistic acts are bad or good -- that's contextual. Some people, for some reason, think egoistic acts are inherently-bad.

I'll look into it, though.

[Anonymous No.7043153]

>>7043145

Isn't that moral relativism?

[Anonymous No.7043156]

>>7043153
Isn't moral relativism an facet of nihilism?

[Anonymous No.7043158]

>>7043119
What a neat image

[Anonymous No.7043173]

>>7043114
>however, there HAS to be altruistic acts otherwise it becomes tautological.
Explain

[Anonymous No.7043175]

>>7043139
Even if they're driven by emotion it doesn't prove that those emotions were present throughout our entire evolutionary history and not invented by religion relatively recently.

[Anonymous No.7043178]

>>7043156

Moral relativists claim absolute morality exists but is just confined to every given "cultural group". For example, FGM is wrong, even evil, in our society but in Somalian society it becomes a moral act. (Don't blame me for their dodgy logic.)

At least that's what the cretins I know claiming to be "relativist" argue.

Nihilists seem to argue something else - that nothing is good or evil.

[Anonymous No.7043184]

>>7043175

>it doesn't prove that those emotions were present throughout our entire evolutionary history and not invented by religion relatively recently

>being this ignorant of basic biology

Ughhhhh...

[Anonymous No.7043186]

Yup.
The only thing keeping me from doing immoral shit is the law. Because it really sucks getting caught.

[Anonymous No.7043188]

>>7043178
That's just a semantice difference in what you define as 'absolute'. You might as well say that if morals are down to cultural bias they aren't absolute at all.

[Terrible Person !.fNJV2Jlhw No.7043187]

>>7043056
Because, for the most part, we are group animals that need other members to feel healthy and fulfilled. You start doing whatever you want, whenever you want, with no regard to other people, and you get shunned. Being shunned is generally not healthy to the psych.

Or were you looking for a more poetic answer?

[Anonymous No.7043190]

>>7043184
So being ashamed of nudity is biological?

[Anonymous No.7043192]

>>7043188

>You might as well say that if morals are down to cultural bias they aren't absolute at all

I'm afraid I don't follow.

[Anonymous No.7043194]

>>7043178
Moral relativism argues that there is nothing inherently good or evil. It's contextual. So they aren't saying morality doesn't exist, but they aren't arguing for absolute morality either.

Nihilists are arguing for the absolute absence of morality. Nothing is good or evil because nothing ultimately matters including those concepts.

[Anonymous No.7043196]

I don't think you can be true nihilist, for an extended time period anyway. From my experience, you're either gonna regress back into a blissful state of ignorant apatheism, or descend into epiphany and/or insanity (who says you can't have both?).

[Anonymous No.7043205]

>>7043190

What else is emotion if not biological? Have you been skipping classes?

>>7043194

By definition morality is universal and absolute. We're not talking about morality if I can tweak it here and change-it-to-suit-myself there.

[Anonymous No.7043212]

>>7043194
>>Moral relativism argues that there is nothing inherently good or evil. It's contextual.
contextuality is really pluralism [or relativism]

nihilism is unconditioned: every is devoid of existence


>>7043196
generally, pluralism leads to nihilism since people are quick enough to conclude that if there is a plurality of views, then there is no views

many go back from nihilism into pluralism and ''it is okey that people disagree''

[Anonymous No.7043215]

>>7043192
The only difference is what you define as 'absolute'.

If nihilism says there is no good nor evil, it says that there is no absolute (=objective) measure by which to judge actions. But that exactly is what - accordin to >>7043178 - moral relativists think as well: In practice you can make moral judgements, but they're down to cultural authority and an ultimate objective entitity or principle.

[Anonymous No.7043222]

>>7043187

Actually, I live most of my life alone.
I've actively destroyed my social skills since I was little. I don't regret anything. You're all just unable to handle loneliness while I have made it my home. You're the social animals, not me. So I might as well be just an animal.

I support Heidegger when he says smalltalk is bullshit. I rather get on here, so some fancy and less fancy ideas, and move on and do my thing.
Same with everything else.
I'm so glad to not have born in some premodern context where I couldn't escape that 'blissful social body' you fuckers want to restore so badly. A world that beats you up for everything. For being gay, for having freckles, for wearing a shitty colour.

The more we atomise, the better. Cry more about how the internet has destroyed community or some shit :'(

Whenever my friends left after my bday, it was a relief.

So if solitude is a cage than why does it feel like a release from others?

[Anonymous No.7043223]

>>7043215
*and NOT an ultimate [...]

[Anonymous No.7043232]

>>7043222
>I've actively destroyed my social skills since I was little. I don't regret anything. You're all just unable to handle loneliness while I have made it my home. You're the social animals, not me.

hey edgelord, you're socializing on 4chan rite now u fkn fgt

[Anonymous No.7043256]

>>7043232

Oh so whenever it suits your guys interests, being on 4chan is being social?
I thought if this was your sole connection to the world it was shut-in loser tier with no social skills hurr durr
Now all of the sudden I'm partaking in the glorious human activity of socializing?

In any case, you're right of course.
I'm more and more cutting my umbilical chord with people.
I consider it an emancipation of sorts.

[Anonymous No.7043263]

>>7043205
>By definition morality is universal and absolute
Nah. Morality is a codified system of what is "right" and "wrong". The fact that different moral systems exist means that it doesn't have to be universal. Those systems may claim universal authority, but I can just as easily claim universal authority over the Earth. Doesn't mean in actuality that's true.

[Anonymous No.7043264]

>>7043212

>generally, pluralism leads to nihilism

I would say that it's more of an apatheism what you're describing. You might get the notion that there's not possibility of arriving at the "correct" (or even "approximately correct") view from plurality, but I don't think you're likely to come to the conclusion that there is absolutely no right view.

True nihilism in my opinion comes from a careful scrutiny of the existenialist position.

[Anonymous No.7043292]

>>7043205
I'm saying our emotions haven't existed in their current form for all of history. Reading comprehension pls.

[Anonymous No.7043329]

>>7043173
If all acts are egoistic, what are you measuring them against? There's no comparative state of affairs.

A tautology is a state of affairs that exists in all worlds; it says nothing.

Altruism is the opposite of egoism; without one, the other becomes meaningless.

[Anonymous No.7043358]

>>7043329
Isn't that more of a sign that your system of classifications is wrong, and not that the other options must exist?

[Anonymous No.7043368]

>>7043056
It always makes me laugh when religious people say this. They talk like there is some magical world of untold pleasure just beyond reach if only they would descend to the level of those filthy heathens.

I wish it was that easy bub. Drinking has hangovers. Too many drugs lead to addiction or some other kind of malady. Fucking someone who doesn't want to be fucked really isn't that fun unless you are a rapist. Unless you are sociopath, hurting other people is hard, even when there is a good reason to do so (self defense). I suppose there are orgies, but really. Who wants the pressure to perform like that?

What kind of "insane and carnal" pleasures are you imagining?

[Anonymous No.7043537]

>>7043056
Thats cause their fucking cucks.

[Anonymous No.7043829]

>>7043056
Because most normal people have empathy, so causing too many problems for other people is counterproductive for your happiness, even if it's in the pursuit of your happiness.

[Anonymous No.7043842]

>>7043056
>just live an insane life with carnal pleasures at every turn? Why do you have any regard for fellow human beings when you might as well use them to maximize your enjoyment?
I tried, this actually sucks and isn't the most pleasurable.

The most pleasurable is to live a humble life of simple pleasures and share them with people you care about.

[Anonymous No.7043907]

>>7043056
>Why do you have any regard for fellow human beings when you might as well use them to maximize your enjoyment?

Actually many theists are utilitarian towards others in their own way, since they believe their actions will result in ultimate pleasure (usually after life)

The Muslims have their 72 virgins, Christians their heaven, etc.

Throughout history and the present day there are countless examples of the religious using inhumane methods of attaining their own ends. So you have no reason to point fingers at atheists and the like.

[Anonymous No.7043976]

>>7043907
>The Muslims have their 72 virgins, Christians their heaven, etc.
and the atheists have their little medals awarded by the republics.

you do understand that the atheists have faith ? that they are atheists only in name ?

[Anonymous No.7043990]

>>7043976

>>7043976

We all percieve reality, some way or the other.

For example, from my own experience/evidence, I'm fairly sure it's all bogus, a mixed housing project of ontological Potemkin's village and spiritual auschwitz. It is the most rational and coherent world-image my mind can produce.

Is there really such a thing as faith?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.7043992]

Inter spem curamque, timores inter et irasomnen crede diem tibi diluxisse supremem:
grata superveniet quae non sperabitur hora.

[Anomalous No.7044033]

Only the dead are nihilists.

[Anonymous No.7044041]

>>7043976
>and the atheists have their little medals

My point is don't pretend that the religious are any better.

[Anonymous No.7044337]

They do do that. That's exactly the philosophy of YOLO or carpe diem. Just because most of them don't put much effort in to how to get pleasure out of their lives doesn't mean that they don't work up every day with the thought, "what can I do that will please me today?" Even if that's watching television for 12 hours, they're following the same principle. Those that take it so far as worshipping the devil don't really belong to the same category; at that point their lives aren't mindless hedonism but an active lust to spread evil.

For God made not death, neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living. [For he created all things that they might be: and he made the nations of the earth for health: and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor kingdom of hell upon the earth. For justice is perpetual and immortal.

But the wicked with works and words have called it to them: and esteeming it a friend have fallen away, and have made a covenant with it: because they are worthy to be of the part thereof.

For they have said, reasoning with themselves, but not right: The time of our life is short and tedious, and in the end of a man there is no remedy, and no man hath been known to have returned from hell: For we are born of nothing, and after this we shall be as if we had not been: for the breath in our nostrils is smoke: and speech a spark to move our heart, Which being put out, our body shall be ashes, and our spirit shall be poured abroad as soft air, and our life shall pass away as the trace of a cloud, and shall be dispersed as a mist, which is driven away by the beams of the sun, and overpowered with the heat thereof: [And our name in time shall be forgotten, and no man shall have any remembrance of our works. For our time is as the passing of a shadow, and there is no going back of our end: for it is fast sealed, and no man returneth.

Come therefore, and let us enjoy the good things that are present, and let us speedily use the creatures as in youth. Let us fill ourselves with costly wine, and ointments: and let not the flower of the time pass by us. Let us crown ourselves with roses, before they be withered: let no meadow escape our riot. Let none of us go without his part in luxury: let us everywhere leave tokens of joy: for this is our portion, and this our lot. Let us oppress the poor just man, and not spare the widow, nor honour the ancient grey hairs of the aged.

[Anonymous No.7044339]

>>7044337
But let our strength be the law of justice: for that which is feeble, is found to be nothing worth. Let us therefore lie in wait for the just, because he is not for our turn, and he is contrary to our doings, and upbraideth us with transgressions of the law, and divulgeth against us the sins of our way of life. He boasteth that he hath the knowledge of God, and calleth himself the son of God. He is become a censurer of our thoughts. He is grievous unto us, even to behold: for his life is not like other men' s, and his ways are very different.

We are esteemed by him as triflers, and he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness, and he preferreth the latter end of the just, and glorieth that he hath God for his father. Let us see then if his words be true, and let us prove what shall happen to him, and we shall know what his end shall be. For if he be the true son of God, he will defend him, and will deliver him from the hands of his enemies. Let us examine him by outrages and tortures, that we may know his meekness and try his patience. Let us condemn him to a most shameful death: for there shall be respect had unto him by his words.

These things they thought, and were deceived: for their own malice blinded them. And they knew not the secrets of God, nor hoped for the wages of justice, nor esteemed the honour of holy souls. For God created man incorruptible, and to the image of his own likeness he made him. But by the envy of the devil, death came into the world: And they follow him that are of his side.

[Anonymous No.7044351]

>>7044041
In Christianity there is a distinction drawn between perfect charity where you love God and men for their own sake and imperfect where you love them for some reward or to escape some punishment.

[Anonymous No.7044794]

>>7043292

You got evidence for that?

You also suggested that religion - which has existed for a minuscule period of time evolutionarily speaking - could've modified human biology. That seems a patently silly thing to believe. Surely it makes much more logical sense to argue the human brain possesses certain pre-dispositions which lead people to invent religion.

In other words, nature determines culture, not the other way 'round.

[Anonymous No.7044888]

>>7043056
Because using other human beings for entertainment purposes isn't just unethical - it's stupid.

In the long term you'll just alienate yourself and open yourself up as an acceptable target for acts of revenge.

If you only consider your own immediate brute happiness you'll rob yourself of the far more stable pleasure of being a well liked person living with people they find tolerable.

And then you can take vast quantities of drugs and destroy stuff with your friends.

being a "good" person is in your self-interest.

[Anonymous No.7044897]

>>7043056
I recognize that eclipse

also to answer your question because that sounds hard and hard stuff sucks.

[Anonymous No.7044935]

>>7043056
There's more to being human than ideology

[Anonymous No.7045134]

>>7044888
Dubba trippa.