/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7030473]

Well gents, I think I finally had my wake up call today.

I'm 1/3 on my CPA exams, and I've decided I want to give up the business lifestyle in hopes of becoming a historian, which has always been my dream.

Realistically, the chances of moving into History is pretty impossible right? I'm kind of drunk and experiencing a crippling depression like I've never had before.

If anyone else needs to vent feel free to post away. Just feeling kind of empty right now.

[Anonymous No.7030551]

>>7030473

the phrase "quarter-life crisis" is popular, but I don't think it's really accurate unless you're quite young. which you might be based on the naivete of your post. also, "mid-life crisis" doesn't seem to apply here, so perhaps it's a "third-life crisis".

By your own admission, you're in some boring/presumably safe career track which leaves you feeling dead inside, and you want to do something that you actually have some passion for. My response is that you do not have to be an expert to participate in any field of human endeavor, and receive pleasure from doing so.

This is where the notion of a hobby comes in, something for which you have passion and actually care about. If you have some vague idea of becoming a "working" historian, this need not be a college professor. But to your point, the humanities are not where you go for money, which seems to have informed your career decisions up to this point.

I would suggest starting a history blog. Blogging can satisfy the urge to create, and over time, if you're doing it right, you will know that you have built up a body of work and learned some things along the way.

since you're drunk, I'll invoke caps for the real take-away, for the rest of this post.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE AN EXPERT TO "DO" A SUBJECT FOR WHICH YOU HAVE REAL, ACTUAL PASSION.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE $100,000 FRONT MONEY TO START A SMALL BUSINESS. IF YOU ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT THE BUSINESS ITSELF, AND ABOUT UNDERSTANDING BUSINESS, YOU CAN START NEAR ZERO.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A PH.D IN MATHEMATICS TO DO MATH, AND INVESTIGATE MATHEMATICAL PROBLEMS. I MYSELF WAS POKING AROUND WITH A PROBLEM FOR THE FUN OF IT BEFORE MAKING THIS THREAD.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GRADUATE FROM FILM SCHOOL TO MAKE MOVIES. TARANTINO DERIDED FILM SCHOOL. PEOPLE MAKE FUN OF TARANTINO FOR BEING AN AUTIST, BUT NO ONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT MOVIES WILL SERIOUSLY SUGGEST THAT TARANTINO DOES NOT LOVE-LOVE-LOVE HIS SUBJECT, AND KNOW ALL ABOUT IT.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO MONETIZE OR CAREER-IZE YOUR PASSION. Indeed, many find the confluence of the money and their passion to be jarring.

[Anonymous No.7030561]

>>7030473
>I'm 1/3 on my CPA exams
Is this because you're dumb, because you're depressed, or because you don't want to be a CPA? Think about that.

>I want to give up the business lifestyle in hopes of becoming a historian, which has always been my dream.
Why weren't you following your dream to begin with?

Being a historian means having published stuff that your historian peers respect. You could be working towards that right now. Of course, most of us need to work for a living. And I assume you want to be paid to be a historian. Fourth most over-supplied field in the academy by the way (After Continental, Literature, Analytic).

>Realistically, the chances of moving into History is pretty impossible right?
You need a 4.0 BA in history plus an American 10 year PhD OR a IA IB IIA honours or MA plus 3 year Commonwealth PhD.

Then you need 2-3 books.

Or you could start publishing now in peer reviewed journals.

>feel histoBa

[Anonymous No.7030576]

>>7030551
just read the caps, and i agree. if you are passionate you will succeed. follow your passion

[Anonymous No.7030577]

>>7030551
>YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE AN EXPERT TO "DO" A SUBJECT FOR WHICH YOU HAVE REAL, ACTUAL PASSION.
>YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE $100,000 FRONT MONEY TO START A SMALL BUSINESS. IF YOU ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT THE BUSINESS ITSELF, AND ABOUT UNDERSTANDING BUSINESS, YOU CAN START NEAR ZERO.
>YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A PH.D IN MATHEMATICS TO DO MATH, AND INVESTIGATE MATHEMATICAL PROBLEMS. I MYSELF WAS POKING AROUND WITH A PROBLEM FOR THE FUN OF IT BEFORE MAKING THIS THREAD.
>YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GRADUATE FROM FILM SCHOOL TO MAKE MOVIES. TARANTINO DERIDED FILM SCHOOL. PEOPLE MAKE FUN OF TARANTINO FOR BEING AN AUTIST, BUT NO ONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT MOVIES WILL SERIOUSLY SUGGEST THAT TARANTINO DOES NOT LOVE-LOVE-LOVE HIS SUBJECT, AND KNOW ALL ABOUT IT.
>YOU DO NOT HAVE TO MONETIZE OR CAREER-IZE YOUR PASSION. Indeed, many find the confluence of the money and their passion to be jarring.

I see you're bourgeois. For the rest of us the Auschwitz rule holds: those that don't work, don't eat, and won't live.

Let me roll up my sleeves and show you my number in the social factory.

[Anonymous No.7030585]

>>7030561
>. Fourth most over-supplied field in the academy by the way (After Continental, Literature, Analytic).
Source?

[Anonymous No.7030593]

>>7030585
Pers. exp. (prof.).

Read MLA, or the gutter press for failing TAs.

[Anonymous No.7030610]

>>7030561

The respect of one's peers is important in any endeavor, but this guy critically fails to understand several key things. He was of course making an important rhetorical point with his second question, but huge throngs of people are for whatever reason obliged to earn money in one profession while the passion-hobby occupies the other territory.

The rest of the post is a bunch of noise which assumes some ideal education and publication as a "standard" academic historian. He never stops to think that maybe the reason why there is an oversupply of historians is because... everyone can do history! Far from being a lowering of the discipline, this means that the field is available to all, especially in a (relatively) free society.

[Anonymous No.7030619]

>>7030610
>He never stops to think that maybe the reason why there is an oversupply of historians is because... everyone can do history!

I've never seen anyone employed, or esteemed, for self-published tripe.

>Far from being a lowering of the discipline, this means that the field is available to all, especially in a (relatively) free society.

Le bourg pooj. Read more local "histories."

[Anonymous No.7030634]

>>7030577

I can explode this nonsense in a few lines. Tacit in your reply is the idea that it is absolutely impossible for a hard worker to have any other personal interests. Similarly, you seem to have forgotten the situation where a person has a day job, and does a passion on the side. Most happily of all (for those who can stand the monetizing), some people have their day job as their same passion.

All but the most deprived humans have time enough to pursue a side interest. Admittedly and to your point, the more-advantaged have more time-money to do so, but as this is a first-world forum, it is not unreasonable to assume a first-world audience.

[Anonymous No.7030648]

>>7030634
You don't understand disciplinarity or "skill."

It is impossible to do history "on the side," as the wide variety of life narratives of failed "amateurs" and the failure of self-articulated narratives outside of the support of the disciplinary system.

It is like surgery. Anyone can do it. Anyone really can.

[Anonymous No.7030658]

>>7030619

Actually, your seeming scorn for naive local histories, family trees, ground-level accounts etc, and, well, historiography itself, tells me that if by chance you're the same person as this guy >>7030561 , then by contempt for its elements, you have totally lost your way with respect to your subject. That you put the two-word phrase local "histories" with the contempt-quotes is the most damning, since in so doing you scorn the primacy of proximity to given historical events.

If you're anything like a serious historian, then you know that you need to step away from this stupid internet fight and do some serious soul-searching, and you know it because I told you so. Because you just scorned and contempted the entire historiographical process.

[Anonymous No.7030668]

>>7030658
>Actually, your seeming scorn for naive local histories, family trees, ground-level accounts etc, and, well,

Which are a-disciplinary, and garbage from a historiographical perspective.

>historiography itself

And you've got some serious literacy issues.

>since in so doing you scorn the primacy of proximity to given historical events.
"event"

I think that proves enough about your capacity to have a historiographical opinion.

Bourgeois dilettantism was driven out by the discipline in the 19th century, on the basis of close reading of documents and the test of narratives and inferences against a scholarly public. And for good reason. Why don't you masturbate into the sticky pages of your Durant?

[Anonymous No.7030673]

>>7030648

>It is impossible to do history "on the side," as the wide variety of life narratives of failed "amateurs" and the failure of self-articulated narratives outside of the support of the disciplinary system.

And now you are fully revealed as the stupid fraud that you are. Your line speaks for itself.

[Anonymous No.7030684]

>>7030473
I know your feel op. A semester away from a bs in cs and I have lost almost all interest. I want to write instead.

[Anonymous No.7030767]

Academia and liberal art professions have been long nepotized--you stand no chance of getting in.

[Anonymous No.7030923]

This is kind of sad, maybe its the picture. For someone to be passionate about history, jesus, are historians even?

I'd so go for it. Who cares, you could be like the dyslexic who tries harder than everyone else.

[Anonymous No.7030926]

>>7030593
Hmm. What do you think of the more obscure studies within the humanities? Philology of archaic languages, that sort of thing?
How crowded are those positions compared to say a literature position?

[Anonymous No.7030932]

>>7030923
>For someone to be passionate about history, jesus, are historians even?

Historians are generally passionate about their work because of selection. It is like asking why speed freaks have clean houses.

>>7030926
>What do you think of the more obscure studies within the humanities? Philology of archaic languages, that sort of thing?
How crowded are those positions compared to say a literature position?

Depends on how they're funded. Some are clearly on the way out. In the smaller humanities you're basically being "groomed" for someone's retirement. The problem is that your supervisor is probably grooming more students than required.

And you'll spend the rest of your life defending the presence of philology or archaic languages, with no student numbers, and no endowed grant.

Everything's a risk. It is easier to do what you're good at, and what you get groomed for. So tout yourself like a fucking whore.

[Anonymous No.7030939]

>>7030932
>So tout yourself like a fucking whore.
t-thanks friend, sounds promising

[Anonymous No.7030952]

>>7030939
Welcome to academia. You used to get a permanent appointment with an MA.

Now you need 3 books in the 4 worst fields.

[Anonymous No.7030955]

Okay I'll vent. Less than 2 years of Army life left but I'm deploying to Kuwait next year and postponing plans to start a family with my wife because of that. And I'll be 5 years behind my peers when I get out and start school. My life is fucked.

[Anonymous No.7030957]

>>7030955
Not really. Most young adults waste their time at a University by 'getting life experience.'

You'll be a hot older man with his life together who knows how to apply himself to achieve tasks.

[Anonymous No.7030964]

>>7030955
>>7030955

Thank you for your future service, anon.

[Anonymous No.7030973]

>>7030955
Good luck.

[Anonymous No.7030975]

>>7030964
Fucking kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.7030980]

>>7030975
>mfw I'm a pacifist but still cringed at your post

[Anonymous No.7030987]

Just dropped out of my engineering major because i have zero interest in it and I suck at math and I cannot see myself taking four years of it

Instead I'm probably going to pursue some humanities degree and teach abroad for the rest of my life if I can. I don't care if I make $70k starting with a STEM degree, just toss me into a small , remote village in Japan or something.

I am a dumb, worthless human but I at least want to be happy

[Anonymous No.7031001]

>>7030980
"Thank you for your service" is the largest fuck you you can say to a worker in, or ex- uniform.

[Anonymous No.7031002]

>>7031001
I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.7031011]

>>7031002
People who haven't served don't have the knowledge or experience to have the capacity to thank (or even properly understand) service people. "Thank you for your service" says that the civilian is better than them. It is the modern version of [the myth of] spitting on soldiers returning from war.

[Anonymous No.7031017]

>>7031011
Oh.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.7031038]

>>7031011
It isn't. It's a small and stupid salutation, but it isn't an insult. I've seen old war vets dressing up and greeting them as they returned. All you can say in some cases.
Oh hey, we could end war if we wanted to. That would help. Guess how.

[Anonymous No.7031046]

>>7031038
By shooting the generals on our own side. SO COMRADES COME RALLY

[Anonymous No.7031068]

>>7030473
We live in an age of unparalleled cynicism and you're asking 4chan for life advice?

[Anonymous No.7031086]

>>7031038
>we could end war if we wanted to
my sides
how anyone can still believe these naive platitudes is beyond me

[Anonymous No.7031090]

>>7031086
>>>/v/
>>>/v/
never changes

[Anonymous No.7031547]

>>7030955
I'm OP, and I disagree. Some of the best students I taught when I was teaching accounting were former military or the non-conventional student.

You'll be older, but you have your family life lined up with your wife, so you won't have to party in order to meet a potential spouse etc.

You'll make it. That picture hit me right in the feels.

[Anonymous No.7031555]

>>7030551
Stupid post

>"just do it in your spare time bro!"

Literally normie-tier advice. Good luck finding the enthusiasm to read when you've been discussing bussiness shit with suits for nine hours.

[Anonymous No.7031602]

>>7031011
Thanks for fighting for Israel.

[Anonymous No.7031637]

>>7030473
>>7030551

Could start a history magazine or youtube channel I guess.

[Anonymous No.7032543]

>>7031011
While the phrase I think it is cliched, I think your being edgy... It is an attempt to express empathy. Though then again, it's all about how you deliver the line. But what, are you supposed to say, "I'm so sorry, I'll never know what it's like to be a soldier!"??

[Anonymous No.7032547]

>>7032543
also

I like what >>7031637 suggests. You could also try making a podcast. I love the history of philosophy and Ottoman history podcasts

[Anonymous No.7032717]

>>7032547

I also like this >>7031637 idea, since it's basically what I originally suggested in the post >>7030551 which the above commenter already directly replied to. And if pursuit of such should by some chance lead to something more serious, or a published book which is taken seriously, and if any such success can stick in this >>7030648 stupid idiot's craw, then so much the better.

In the first line here >>7030668 , he goes on to (again!) call the working material of history itself "garbage". He's literally so stupid and hateful about his purported subject, that he just /has/ to be a troll, but he sure is rustling my jimmies. He's like a detective who might as not well do any detecting at all, since he knows that every possible lead is always "garbage", one hundred per cent of the time.

[Anonymous No.7032846]

Why are servicemen either cantankerous old shitheads or psychopaths?

Jesus. No wonder you guys end up on the streets. You take a simple attempt at empathy and lash out violently. Go waste away in an insane asylum and stop wasting our time.

[Anonymous No.7032958]

>>7031555
This x1000

I barely have time for anything other than my career. It fucking sucks, and trying to do all I want with my hobbies on days off is utterly exhausting.

[Anonymous No.7033017]

>>7032717
The working material of history are archival sources, not the tripe you are advocating.

You have no experience of historiography or the conduct of writing history.

[Anonymous No.7033093]

>>7030473
I'm in a very similar situation OP. I started in accounting in search of security and time to do things on the side. Now I'm realizing that I'll be working like 50 hours a week on average as a public accountant, so I'll have no time or energy for anything else.

I pose this question to everyone else for both me and OP: say we start as CPAs and switch to something 40 hours a week once we're established. Will the money we will be raking in help us further our passions? It would obviously make the hobbies more serious, for example I'd have the funds to make an awesome youtube channel.
But say after 5 or more years of accounting OP pursued a masters or phd in history, could the money he'll have built up help him in some way? It seems like if all these academic fields are bogged down in nepotism, money might help "grease the wheels"? Would he have better chances than if just dropped his current career and pursued history?

[Anonymous No.7033105]

>>7033093
>money might help "grease the wheels"
Unless you've got $200000 a year for someone's grant, no, money won't help grease the wheels.

All money can do is provide "a living" while you do something.

[Anonymous No.7033334]

>>7033093
>>7033105

I agree. I mainly saw it as a means to an end where I'd be able to shift over to finance, and then ideally be able to get out of working in my 40s.

Have some money set up for the family and be able to give back to my parents. After all the hard work and money from my parents for school, I'd feel horrible just dropping that out because I'm hit with failure.

And you'll be working a lot more than 40 hours a week during busy season. Talking like 60-70 depending on client.

[Anonymous No.7034662]

>>7033017

And what else are the atomic elements of your "archival sources", you idiot fucking faggot, apart from imperfect, garbage fragments like newspapers, photos, handwritten notes, objects, dental records, legal instruments, ? a variety of fragments, from which it is your task to discern truth, whether by the close reading described here >>7030668 , or possibly else in the consensus described in the next clause of same post.

I invite the whole of the thread to go back up your >>7030619 stupid >>7030648 faggot >>7030668
idiot train of thought and know what a stupid fucking fucking fucking idiot you are. Yes I mad, yes, you are wrong.

[Anonymous No.7034700]

>>7034662
>, ?
le france punct

I think that we can dismiss your entire argument on the basis of your culture, given the historical standards after annales was rejected by Normaliens.

[Anonymous No.7035572]

why can't you become a history guy

if you already have a degree you could start applying to postgrad programs right away and explain your situation/interests/qualifications. you could also redo undergrad, or take "continuing studies" courses (for money) or just wander onto campus and pretend to be a student in reasonably sized courses

as long as you have the minimum of training to know that you can understand and produce historical scholarship, you can probably get accepted SOMEWHERE and then just distinguish yourself by the quality if your work, or if you want, you can become an independent scholar and try to get published in the short term. but that's pretty hard.

i wanted to be an historian when i went to college, as a mature student myself (around 22-23), and i knew it was my calling or whatever. but going through undergrad, as shitty as it was, did actually hone my enthusiasm into practical knowledge and an ability to pump out the kind of work expected in the field. if this is a dream of yours, i would really advise making that decision definitively so that you can get to work making it into reality, because the longer you wait the longer any naivete or amateurishness you have is going to cement itself.

there are good independent scholars, for example, but they tend to have a lot of familiarity with academia, so they know how not to look naive or quaint to serious scholars. that's what you want to avoid, and that's (unfortunately) what even the most mediocre passionless grad student gets by virtue of lugging himself through the system.

[Anonymous No.7035958]

I live in a third-world country and l've been studying English Language and Literature for two years now. As much as l wish it was more similar to the course in Anglosphere countries, l get why it is the way it is, and l really do like it. But the prospect of busting my ass off studying literature only to teach high school kids what verbs are is really depressing and off-putting.

I've always loved history, but having to study revisionist history from hack historians who write propaganda is even worse. I'm considering dumping my English courses in favor of History, but that would probably make me just as miserable.

I hate this place.

[Anonymous No.7036005]

>>7030987
STEM majors do not make 70k out the door, I know your counselors and your teachers tell you that but I went to a college with a well respected engineering program (not MIT or anything but none of you bastards go there) had lots of friends who got their BS In STEM and most start out from 35-45k with the exception of those who went to work on oil rigs and those who went to the Dakotas

[Anonymous No.7036012]

>>7030955
I want to wish you luck, say thank you for your service, and let you know that it has become totally commonplace to see adult/non traditional students about campus, and they tend to be the best students. If you're serious about starting a family and going to school at the same time once your tour is over, you'll do fine.

[Anonymous No.7036033]

This thread is giving me a bad case of the feels. I'm an engineering double major. While I do like the subject I'm studying and math in general, if I won the lottery tomorrow I'd switch my majors to theology and history in an instant.

[Anonymous No.7036046]

>>7036005
yeah the stem meme has gone way too far, now there are way too many people getting engineering degrees, and the bubble is most likely going to burst

honestly there are so many jobs for humanities degrees, people severely underestimate the size of the "service" industry (marketing/management/hr/general wagecuckery)