/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6990975]

What country as a whole has produced the best literature?
1. Italy
2. Russia
3. France
4. Spain
5. Germany
(Britain not included since the works of overhyped hacks does not fall under the category of literature (Shakespeare withstanding))

[Anonymous No.6990977]

>>6990975
american followed by britain, or vice versa depending on which of the two countries you're from

[Anonymous No.6990982]

>Attributing great works of egoists to grandiose spooks
Stay haunted

[Anonymous No.6990984]

>>6990977
USA is not even in the top 20 bro

[Anonymous No.6990999]

>>6990982
>Being this saucy about not breaking the top three

[Anonymous No.6991003]

This is idiotic, this is literally retarded. I mean, you have to literally be at fault with your mental faculties to even believe or pretend to believe or ironically pretend to believe that there is some minute sense in asking what country has produced the best literature or to consider it answering. I advise therapy, heavy drugs, suicide, eternal reclusion or locking yourself in the library to rehab you from your own ignorance for ever thinking that such disposition of terms through which you express yourself is adequate for intelligent conversation.

[Anonymous No.6991006]

>Russia above France
m8...

[Anonymous No.6991008]

>>6990975
ctrl+f ireland
0
are you kidding me

[Anonymous No.6991012]

these threads are fucking worthless. go read a book and then make a thread on it you retard

[Anonymous No.6991019]

>>6990984
that's because you're stupid. to everyone else USA is first or second

[Anonymous No.6991021]

>>6990975
Argentina, obviously. It's undoubtedly the most relevant and literally meritory country right now.

[Anonymous No.6991028]

Greece, followed by Germany.

[Anonymous No.6991030]

Russia has the best literature.

[Anonymous No.6991203]

>>6990999

вaши пpизpaки видeны, cyкa

[Anonymous No.6991228]

Britain
Russia
US
France
Germany

[Anonymous No.6991232]

>>6990999

вaши пpизpaки видны, cyкa

[Anonymous No.6991233]

1. French
2. Latin
3. English
4. Italian
5. Attic Greek
6. Classical Chinese
7. German
8. Persian
9. Russian
10. Spanish

[Anonymous No.6991252]

patrician version
1. Britain + Ireland
2. France
3. Italy + Rome
4. China
5. Russia
6. Japan
7. Germany
8. India
9. Spain
10. Greece

If you include colonial offspring bump Spain up to 5 and Anglospehere obv stays 1.

[Anonymous No.6991276]

The UK kicks ass in every form of literature except narrative prose. I guess that Russia has produced the greatest novelists and USA the greatest short story writers. The French would probably be #2 in every category.

[Anonymous No.6991278]

>>6991252
>having India
>having Japan
>no US or Argentina

Someone is a buttmad yuro lmao

[Anonymous No.6991288]

>>6990975
>Italy is number one
I like this list.

[Anonymous No.6991319]

>>6991278
In fact I am American. India replaced USA which was originally on the list because American literature has not truly had a chance to stand the test of time the way the foundational texts of Hindu and Buddhist thought have. If Emerson, Thoreau, and transcendentalism are making waves 1000 years from now (as I privately suspect they will) then America will be top 5.

[Anonymous No.6991349]

>>6991319
you can't seriously believe that the human race will still exist in 1000 years

[Anonymous No.6991353]

>>6991252
>Japan above Germany, India, Greece
Take it to /jp/, m8. And India should be way higher anyway, keeping in mind that India has close to as rich a cultural history as all of Europe combined. It should probably be number 2, with China number 3.

But this whole endeavor is silly anyway.

[Anonymous No.6991398]

>>6991021
>>6991278
>naming Argentina instead of Brazil

[Anonymous No.6991412]

Why someone would post eastern countries? Is it a new meme?

[Anonymous No.6991437]

>>6991412
you're my meme, anon

[Anonymous No.6991441]

>>6991353
No one cares about your pig shit hovels and cholera, fam.

[Anonymous No.6991481]

>No Portucale
>No Brazil

Is this a meme thread?

[Anonymous No.6991509]

>>6991019

No. England and Russia are far superior. France is also has a great tradition, but England and Russia are far greater than the U.S.

[Anonymous No.6991541]

>>6991398
Brazilian here, we really didn't produce much of worth after the 70s, and even then, it was already sort of bad.

Gotta admit there are some good people showing up in the last 5 years, tho

>>6991252
Britain would be shit without Ireland, and you know it.

Anyway, Russia, France and Ireland are GOAT, followed by Argentina, Greece and Germany

[Anonymous No.6991555]

>>6991021
this got to be a Brazilian shitposting.

[Anonymous No.6991558]

>>6991555
czech em

[Anonymous No.6991593]

>>6991555
Trips confirm, Las Malvinas son Brasileñas

[Anonymous No.6991606]

>>6991349
this tbh

[Anonymous No.6991655]

1. Russia
2. Ireland
3. Spain
4. France
5. Britain
6. Germany
7. Brazil
8. Japan
9. U.S

[Anonymous No.6991660]

>>6991349
>you can't seriously believe that the human race will still exist in 1000 years
how's your cyberpunk story going?

[Anonymous No.6991703]

>>6991655

Spain can’t come in front of England, no way. To be honest neither can Ireland or France, and Russia is debatable, but Spain? What?

You people seem to forget that England has Shakespeare: he alone is already more valuable than the whole literature of some countries. I would rather save the complete works of Shakespeare in the place of Spain’s whole literature anytime.

Russia can compete with England because they’re wonder years were truly amazing. A country who has Tolstoy and Chekhov on their side is a Leviathan.

And Japanese literature is better than Brazilian literature. They’re folk poetry is better than anything Brazilian poets have created. Machado de Assis can’t save the whole country alone (even more so when you realize he has only a bunch of really great works).

[Anonymous No.6991721]

russophiles and anglophiles are retards

[Anonymous No.6991726]

>>6991721

And yet they produced the best literature to date.

[Anonymous No.6991736]

ITT: Everyone has read a handful of authors from a handful of nations at best.

[Anonymous No.6991746]

>>6991319
In 1000 years we will be post-human and post-literature.

[Anonymous No.6991751]

>>6991721
what the fuck did you say about fukkeinfd russia you faglosrfd son of pfjschute

[Anonymous No.6991752]

Ranking countries by literary achievements is futile, because those achievements are of the authors alone.

Their countrymen can hang.

What presumptuous arrogance it is to claim the feat of another because you happen to live on the same patch of dirt.

[Anonymous No.6991770]

>>6991752

This.

If it is a competition, it is a completion of all against all.

And there are some writers (a small number of them) whose work was so great they could carry the entire nation on their backs.

[Anonymous No.6991773]

>>6991752
Yeah, culture and environment have no influence on the manifestation of an artist's ability at all. If Shakespeare had been born and raised in a hut in Togo he would still be the best ever.

[Anonymous No.6991777]

>>6991752
Then how do some nations consistently produce a greater quality and quantity of writer than others?

[Anonymous No.6991789]

My personal favorites

1# USA
German
Russian
French
Japanese

[Anonymous No.6991791]

>>6991752
>>6991770
So why do Italy/UK have astronomically more great writers per capita than China/India?

Take off the SJW goggles and admit that culture matters. Some cultures are more conducive to great literature than others.

[Anonymous No.6991797]

>>6991777
Show me a man who is a product of a nation, and I'll show you a genetically engineered supersoldier grown in a tube.

Men are products of social environments and pedagogic principals, which often occur inspite of, rather than because of national affiliation.

[Anonymous No.6991800]

>>6991773
>>6991777
>>6991791

>Any year
>Being a Statist

[Anonymous No.6991801]

>>6991752
the author is just a reflection of their country though. Did they grow up without encountering any people?

[Anonymous No.6991803]

I'm English and think that our literature is overrated, especially Shakespeare.

Beowulf is great though, if that counts. Chaucer is alright too, and the Romantics have a few good poems.

[Anonymous No.6991806]

Does any country have a better ratio of great literature to population than Ireland?

[Anonymous No.6991808]

>>6991800
>recognizing that there is such a thing as culture
>"statist"
how's freshman year?

[Anonymous No.6991811]

>>6991797
every single one of them. Pretty much all of Joyces work is heavily dependent on the Irish way of life

[Anonymous No.6991814]

>>6991777
Even if we consider cultural and environmental factors as significant in shaping the depth and quality of a writer or group of writers, these are transient states that change from generation to generation, leaving this whole tawdry filtering and ranking of authors solely on nation, little more than a dick measuring contest.

I hate these threads.

[Anonymous No.6991815]

>>6991797
You're a mong. Literally can't even be arsed to tell you why.

[Anonymous No.6991817]

1. Israel
2. Greece
3. Italy

rest aren't worth mentioning

[Anonymous No.6991821]

>>6991803
>I'm English and I'm a tasteless contrarian faggot

You're not impressing anyone m8.

[Anonymous No.6991823]

>>6991791

Of course culture matters you retard, nobody is saying otherwise. What was scientific investigation in Europe and the world before the scientific method? It was merely crawling, and only when this instrument became available and the culture around it was influenced then great things started to happen. Europe was for a great time just a bunch of feudal tribes of thousands of poor peasants and small groups of semi-literate nobles.

But even with a greater number of really great writers they are still individuals. Who cares about you? You might be from England, but you are not Shakespeare.

Also, what do you know about Chinese literature? They have centuries of literary tradition, and yet just small bits of it have been translated.

And a great writer alone makes a huge difference, more than a group of merely good writers. Tolstoy alone makes more for Russia than several of famous Italian writers do for Italy.

[Anonymous No.6991824]

>>6991811
Come on, I don't believe that the Irish are that bad.

[Anonymous No.6991834]

>>6991808
>Freshman

What a funny American word.

[Anonymous No.6991841]

>>6990975
>Russia
>only relevant for a century or two
>above France and England

You Dostoevskyfags crack me up.

[Anonymous No.6991843]

>>6991821

>implying Shakespeare isn't weird melodramas packed with absurd jokes and histrionic speeches

People knew that Shakespeare was bad taste back in the day. He had no sense of classical form and chose to create a variety of impressions rather than make one coherent image.

[Anonymous No.6991844]

>>6991841

They have Tolstoy. Only Shakespeare is on his level.

[Anonymous No.6991845]

>>6991811
>>6991815

So, you guys really think a human being is more a product of the state apparatus than their social environment?

I'll bet you think the party in office makes a damn of difference too, as opposed to it just being meaningless background noise that people try to live around.

[Anonymous No.6991850]

>>6991824
Well the Dublin Joyce grew up in was pretty miserable, Calcutta-tier levels of poverty, awful tenements and the biggest red-light district in the Empire, though Joyce's family weren't hugely poor

[Anonymous No.6991853]

>>6991843

You probably read only 2 or 3 of his plays, and you certainly are not very sensible to poetry.

[Anonymous No.6991858]

>>6991703
You probably haven't read a lot of brazilian poetry tbh

[Anonymous No.6991861]

>>6991845
I don't accept your definition of nation as referring only to its government. Nations are communities based upon a shared cultural, environmental and ethnic heritage.

[Anonymous No.6991868]

How can anyone rank Russia above France and England ? Even at its best (19th century obviously) Russia wasn't better than France.

[Anonymous No.6991885]

>>6991853
Honestly I don't think that people who like Shakespeare are "sensitive to poetry". His poetry is full of tedious turns of phrase and abstract metaphor. It isn't pleasant to listen to. Try reading one of Shakespeare's sonnets to someone and then reading one of Byron's sentimental love poems. The Byron will almost certainly be better received, if not simply for the fact that his language is more graceful and you don't have to look at it for a while to gather its meaning.

I don't rate Shakespeare anywhere near on the level of a Virgil or the port who wrote Beowulf, who were able to combine powerful imagery in simple and memorable phrases. It's no coincidence that the most popular of his sonnets "shall I compare thee to a summer's day?" It's the one where he is the least abstract and sticks to simple imagery.

[Anonymous No.6991886]

>>6991861
Then how do you define multicultural places like London? Is London part of Britain? Is it also part of Turkey, Bangladesh, Jamaica etc.?

[Anonymous No.6991890]

>>6991858

Yes, I have. You are just being a patriot. You can hardly find a good metaphor in Brazilian poetry. But to be honest most poetry in the world is bad. Poetry is a very hard art form, and only a small group of individuals can sustain a whole career of impressive poetic achievements.

A single play by Shakespeare, like A Midssumer Night’s Dream, has more great poetry in it than the complete works of any of Brazil’s poets. João Cabral is a dry and boring fellow, for example, and Drummond is writing something like chronicles in verse: he has almost no imagery, no fire in the imagination (and those two mediocrities are considered the best ones).

Vinícius de Moraes might have been good if he actually took the time to work on his poetry. Manuel Bandeira is a joke. Jorge de Lima is a mess: a confusion of uninspired images (he tries to work with metaphor, but fails) glued together in unintelligible monsters.

Brazilian poetry is mediocre. But like I said, most poets are actually bad. Many are one-hit-wonders; it is hard to find a genius in this field.

[Anonymous No.6991893]

>>6991886
No, those people are colonists in the process of destroying Britain's culture, like the Spaniards did to the ancient South American civilizations and the Libyans, Macedonians, et al, did to Ancient Egypt.

[Anonymous No.6991899]

>>6991885
even then sonnet 18 is highly abstract

Shakespeare was largely a "metaphysical" poet,which is a bad movement imo because the poetic doesn't mix well with the metaphysical.

[Anonymous No.6991909]

>>6991886
British culture is being erased by the globalist corporate elite, and those immigrants from the 3rd world are just their pawns. There's a reason that Britain's cultural output has steadily declined into nothing ever since capitalism got its claws into the country. There will never be a new Shakespeare or Milton or Keats.

[Anonymous No.6991914]

>>6991885

His metaphors are the truly wonder of his art. And his plays are the greatest poems (by virtue of language) created by humanity. Classicism is a bore compared to him. Virgil is actually a tedious poet; I can’t imagine how people like to read him. Homer is much greater than him. Those people’s minds hardly ignite and present us some thunder, while Shakespeare’s brain is a perpetual fire.

Imagery is the greatest aspect of poetry, and is also the most difficult to learn. Is more of a or you have it or you don’t have it, and a lot of people who are not very gifted with imagistic thinking like to console themselves by saying that exuberant imagery is a distraction, or “purple eccentricities”, and the like.

[Anonymous No.6991918]

>>6991899
>Shakespeare was largely a "metaphysical" poet

No he was not. The only poem of his that could be called be called Metaphysical is The Phoenix and the Turtle.

[Anonymous No.6991924]

>>6991885
>and abstract metaphor.
>>6991899

The marriage of concrete and abstract language is one of the most powerful tools of a poetical arsenal. I wonder why mediocre poets like Pound used to rant against it.

Want an example? If concrete and abstract language should not be mixed many of the most glorious passages of Shakespeare (better that almoust anything else in recorded literature) would not exist, such as:

that his virtues
Will plead like angels, trumpet-tongued, against
The deep damnation of his taking-off;
And pity, like a naked newborn babe,
Striding the blast, or heaven’s cherubim, horsed
Upon the sightless couriers of the air,
Shall blow the horrid deed in every eye,
That tears shall drown the wind.

(here, for example, Pity is an abstraction, but is connected with the concrete image of a babe)

Or

By heaven, methinks it were an easy leap
To pluck bright honor from the pale-faced moon,
Or dive into the bottom of the deep,
Where fathom line could never touch the ground,
And pluck up drownèd honor by the locks,
So he that doth redeem her thence might wear
Without corrival all her dignities.
But out upon this half-faced fellowship!

(here the most string passage is that of honor being plucked by its locks; well, Honor is an abstraction, and it certainly had no locks and cant drown. But this passage is better than anything that Pound ever wrote).

[Anonymous No.6991930]

oh great, the brazilian assburger has arrived

[Anonymous No.6991944]

>>6991909
To what end do the globalist corporate elite desire to erase British culture?

>There will never be a new Shakespeare or Milton or Keats.
This is highly pessimistic and supposes that the eradication of British culture as you view it leads to a period of no culture, or something less that doesn't lend itself to intensity or passion.

[Anonymous No.6991963]

wtf??? Argentina? Is this a new meme or something?

[Anonymous No.6991972]

>>6991944
>To what end do the globalist corporate elite desire to erase British culture?

It's not their end, just an unfortunate byproduct of their insane avarice, or the unstoppable momentum of capital.

As long as capitalism persists, the arts are lost. Afterwards a new culture may appear, but it won't be British. Britain is over, gone the way of Rome and Byzantium.

[Anonymous No.6992012]

>>6991972
Okay, that's what I imagined but got confused and assumed you inferred intent when you referred to immigrants as their "pawns".

[Anonymous No.6992115]

>>6991890
Your poetry is pretty much ENEM level, I strongly suggest you read baroque poets, Augusto dos Anjos, go a little deeper in Drummond (also, he was doing what every other modernist was doing, joke's on you for trying to compare Shakespeare with modernism) and the romantism (from all generations, while trying to understand what each generation was about).

Problem with you, as far as I see, is that you're judging poetry by a universal standard.

[Anonymous No.6992128]

>Your nation will never produce Stalin's favourite book.

[Anonymous No.6992133]

>>6991021
L E L
E
L

[Anonymous No.6992137]

>>6991703
>Implying Cervantes is not better than Shakespeare
>Implying Calderon de la Barca is not better than Shakespeare
>Implying Lope de Vega is not better than Shakespeare
>Implying Quevedo is not better than Shakespeare.

[Anonymous No.6992150]

>>6991752
This, this thread is pure trash
Delete it please.

[Anonymous No.6992233]

>>6992137

If you really think that it means on of this two things:

1-You did not read Shakespeare (that’s the most likely thing).

2-You are thinking patriotically (a common thing among dumb Spaniards).

Latin America today is producing much better literature than you people.

[Anonymous No.6992269]

I'm a big fan of prose, so for me Russia obviously wins.

[Anonymous No.6992288]

>>6991817
oy vey

[Anonymous No.6992311]

>>6992137
Lope de Vega is actual shit. Literal shit. The shit that I just dropped an hour ago, slimy and still on my ass.

[Anonymous No.6992330]

>>6990982
>Attributing great works of collective Spirit to grandiose individuals

Stay unable to develop your mind by testing it against external manifestations

[Anonymous No.6992332]

>>6992311
>he doesn't own a bidet

[Anonymous No.6992342]

>>6991008
might as well just put Joyce up there, he carries Ireland on his back

[Anonymous No.6992409]

>>6991655
>japan
Goddamn you weebs are desperate. Every other country on that list blows japan the fuck out

[Anonymous No.6992419]

>>6992409

Read Donald Keene history of Japanese Literature, and then come back.

[Anonymous No.6992434]

>>6992419

Is he basically the first Ken-Sama?

[Anonymous No.6992451]

>>6992434

He is an American scholar hat studied the whole Japanese literature, from the ancient folk songs to the modern novels of Mishima and Kawabata, and he discusses his findings in a 4 volume study (and quotes many great excerpts while doing it).

[Anonymous No.6992453]

>>6991890
>Vinícius de Moraes
>Manuel Bandeira
>Drummond
These poets are mediocre, dude. Read better poetry before shitting on a whole country.

[Anonymous No.6992484]

>>6992453

Just dont say that João Cabral de Mello Neto is good. I hate that fag.

[Anonymous No.6992518]

>>6992419
>>6992451
>He acquired Japanese citizenship, adopting the legal name キーン ドナルド
>His poetic nom de plume (雅号 gagō?) is Kīn Donarudo (鬼怒鳴門?),
Certainly sounds like an objective source.

[-_0 No.6992520]

Finland

[Anonymous No.6992525]

1.Britain
2.France
3.Russia
4.Italy
5.USA
All other rankings are just nationalist posturing tbh

[Anonymous No.6992541]

>>6992518
The ultimate weeb.

[Anonymous No.6992546]

>>6992525
By Britain you mean the UK plus Ireland right?
Plus I would place Spain instead of Italy

[Anonymous No.6992559]

>>6992546
>By Britain you mean the UK plus Ireland right?
No, why would I?.

[Anonymous No.6992567]

My country, Spain, didn't produce any good science fiction or fantasy book ever. And people think we have to be in this top.

[Anonymous No.6992575]

>this fucking thread
Make it stop

[Anonymous No.6992714]

>>6992233
Actually, I'm half American half Argentinian and l've read those authors in their original language. I think Life is a dream is much better than the whole production of Shakespeare.

BTW, I think you haven't ever met a Spaniard since they are the most self-hating nation on Earth.

[Anonymous No.6992768]

Europe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything else

[Anonymous No.6993183]

>>6992128
what was that? I assume Russia or Georgia or Germany, but?

[Anonymous No.6993189]

Vietnam > US >>>>>>>>>>>>> Italy

[Anonymous No.6993199]

Europe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>America>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Weebshit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>South America

[Anonymous No.6994105]

>>6992714
Calderon de la Barca is GOAT.
Fuck this anglocentric meme pool.

[Anonymous No.6994695]

>>6993199
More like
Europe >South America > USA >>>>>>>>>>>>> anything else

[Anonymous No.6996640]

>>6994695
this tbh

[Anonymous No.6996942]

Iran

[Anonymous No.6997400]

Just reminding that a big part of that spanish literature was from Catalonia, in Catalan, by Catalan authors

[Anonymous No.6997984]

>>6997400
What Catalan authors?

[Anonymous No.6998142]

>>6997984
Fuck all catalans