Books Libertarian should read

[Anonymous No.6978893]

As Libertarian, I feel Robert Anson Heinlein is good reading.
This lists are my recent read which are related to Libertarianism.
-On Liberty, John Stuart Mill
-Watership Down, Richard Adams
-Starship Troopers, Robert Anson Heinlein
-The Door into Summer, Robert Anson Heinlein
-Capitalism and Freedom, Milton Friedman

I will read Red Planet by Heinlein when I find it.
Anything else for recommendations?
Who is Libertarian Aurthor you think?
What do you recommend for Libertarian reading?
Pro guns for bonus point.

[DEVITT !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6978901]

>>6978893
>Pro guns
lol

we already have enough troubled young white male school shooters. we don't need any more.

[Anonymous No.6978908]

[Anonymous No.6978916]

>>6978908
Wow you bastard

[Anonymous No.6978918]

libertarians don't read

[Anonymous No.6978941]

>>6978918
*libertarians don't read in public

[Anonymous No.6978973]

>>6978893
Mutual Aid - Kropotkin
The Conquest of Bread - Kropotkin
Homage to Catalonia - Orwell

[Anonymous No.6979000]

Ayn Rand

[Anonymous No.6979015]

vulgar faux libertarians get out REEEEEEEEEE

really though Heinlein? fucking Friedman? you're retarded m8

[Anonymous No.6979021]

>>6978908
/thread

[Anonymous No.6979039]

>>6978973
Americans BTFO

[Anonymous No.6979057]

>>6978908
This, tbh. And I'm serious. If you're a real libertarian read something that defies your personal views and learn what you're think they got wrong.

[Anonymous No.6979065]

>>6978973
Underrated

[Anonymous No.6979066]

>>6979065
Whats so good about that comment? Im srs, never heard about those books

[Anonymous No.6979079]

>>6978893

Libertarian should read books just to confirm their own biases. Libertarians should read literature that challenges their world view, because this will enforce their world-view if it's sincere.

[Anonymous No.6979080]

>>6979079
>Libertarian shouldn't* read books just to confirm their own biases.

[Anonymous No.6979100]

>>6978893
>-Watership Down, Richard Adams

[Anonymous No.6979107]

>>6978893
Pic related. It shows you why the arbitrary line libertarianism draws at property rights is unwarranted.

[Anonymous No.6979109]

>>6978893
Why aren't you reading:

Kropotkin's Mutual Aid
Any Proudhon
Any Bakunin
Malatesta
Berkman ABC of Anarchist Communist
Goldman My Life
Andy Anderson Hungary '56
Andy Anderson Openly Classist
UK Le Guin's Hain cycle, particularly Dispossessed

[Anonymous No.6979110]

>>6978908
This. Marx theory of value goes well with the libertarian perspective on work.

[Anonymous No.6979113]

>>6979100
I know, trite social liberalism at best.

[Anonymous No.6979135]

>>6979000
Ayn Rand despised libertarians.

[Anonymous No.6979140]

>>6978918
I CHOOSE not to read. A man chooses. A slave obeys.

[Anonymous No.6979142]

That quote shows how simple this worldview is.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6979149]

>>6979135
The European or American variety?

[Anonymous No.6979156]

>>6979149
Both.
http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-ideas/ayn-rand-q-on-a-on-libertarianism.html

[Anonymous No.6979171]

>>6979100
>>6979113
>Social Liberalism
>Everyone is equal! Specialized is not allowed!
wtf man. Each rabbits has their own characteristics.

[Anonymous No.6979176]

>>6979171
Do you even know what social liberalism is? No, you must be an undergraduate.

[Anonymous No.6979177]

>>6979109
As long as it's truly anarchism (voluntary communities)
Then I'm fine with anarcho-communism or ancap, same stuff then.

[Anonymous No.6979183]

>>6979066
The joke was that OP thinks of libertarianism as a free market capitalist ideology (the American sense of the word), while the poster recommended him books about classical left wing libertarianism aka anarchism.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6979184]

>>6979156
I shouldn't be surprised. She never could think straight

[Anonymous No.6979189]

>>6979176
Social Liberalism will leads America into Fascism. I swear to my Asian penis.
I swear.

[Anonymous No.6979195]

>>6978893

Against His-story Against Leviathan

intro to Green Anarchy

[Anonymous No.6979211]

>>6979177
>truly anarchism (voluntary communities)
ha ha oh wow. There is nothing "voluntary" about a mode of production.

[Anonymous No.6979222]

>>6979189
Go away Fukuyama.

[Anonymous No.6979224]

>>6979171
The Watership Down Warren is closer to libertarian socialism than libertarianism. I mean, where do you get capitalism from anything in that book, except maybe Efrafa (albeit monopoly capitalism/fascism)?

[Anonymous No.6979227]

>>6979211
Then how can it be an anarchy if there's coercion?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6979228]

>>6979177
>ancap

>Hey guys, lol, lets save the corrupting factor of civilization, lol, it'll be better this time

[Anonymous No.6979241]

>>6979228
>oy Anarchis Spaniards killed people for using money
>This time it will be without coercion guys

[Anonymous No.6979267]

>>6979227
>Then how can it be an anarchy if there's coercion?

an archon, mate, not what ever naïve hope you have of a perfect world where we live in harmony like Charlotte Corday's song from Marat/Sade

[Anonymous No.6979277]

yeah if you're interested in libertarian thought read Bastiat

[Anonymous No.6979323]

>>6979277
Then read Marx's criticism of Bastiat at the end of Grundriesse

[Anonymous No.6979414]

>>6979195
Turning some libbies into anarcho-primmies.

[Anonymous No.6980487]

>>6979414
>posing with a cat as a critic of civilisation

Domestic cats are the second most destructive species in the world. They should all be shot on sight.

[Anonymous No.6980581]

>>6979110
I have a hunch that this is quite correct. If consider most human actions to be work, then a lot of issues are resolved.

Consider prostitution. Whenever it's mentioned, it's a high probability that trafficking will be mentioned.

But if we consider prostitution a legit work, then forcing someone to prostitution, then it's forced work. No more and no less.

[Anonymous No.6980665]

>>6979414
>primitivist
>with a homepage
Fuck, that's some serious protein deficiency-induced brain damage!

>>6980487
>Domestic cats are the second most destructive species in the world.
Source on that?

Also, Failkola Failtti must be a grand retard if he thinks that a small society can maintain a technology level high enough to strike down on all "de-modernized" (read: razed into submission and famine) societies that dares to not mouth breath and make a steam engine.

If that poser could afford a tv set, he would have learned that it's quite simple to pretend to be undeveloped and develop weapons in secrecy. Yeah, Failkolas Failforce can always go for some air raids to pretend that everything is ok. But it can't produce any new resources. And what little it have will run thin.

[Anonymous No.6980924]

>>6978893
Depends what you mean by "should read".
I used to be anarchist (not the retarded Bakunin variety, more in line with Turgot or Molinari).

Jean Bodin and Carl Schmitt might be good places to look for authority. Hobbes too. Particularly Schmitt's Theory of the Constitution. If you are not a collectivist moron, you will always be "libertarian" reading books about norms and rules. You need to read books dealing with law to get back on earth.

Side note, Robinson Crusoe often makes non-libertarian mad. It's also one of my very favorite book. Probably buttblasted at a lone man overcoming nature with only the help of the Chirst because there is no muh society and muh historical determinism.

[Anonymous No.6980963]

>>6980665
http://io9.com/5979891/domestic-cats-are-among-the-worst-invasive-species-and-could-be-destroying-ecosystems

First one that came up, the internet is full of it. Cats fuck shit up wherever they go.

[Anonymous No.6980964]

>>6979195
>his-story
>taking this tumblr shit seriously

[Anonymous No.6980972]

>>6980964
>having as much tumblr shit in one's eye as to see it everywhere

[Anonymous No.6982047]

>>6980964
This "Tumblr" buzzword has got to be one of the most significant ideological blinders in recent history. Hell, even if you disagree with every aspect of Perelman's book, it's always good to read stuff you're opposed to instead of stagnating inside your own ideological milieu. Even if it seems atrocious to you, you could at least come out of the experience with a better understanding of your enemies.

[Anonymous No.6982054]

>>6980963
This is great stuff. Now I have an ideological reason for poisoning the neighbourhood cats that were shitting on my front lawn.

[Anonymous No.6982069]

>>6980487
I guess it all depends on how much "purity" you assign to ecosystems. I've killed dozens of feral cats that I've encountered in the woods, but accept that eradicating them in any lands larger than small islands is a near impossibility. All I hope for is that some of the organisms affected by cats will make it through the ongoing mass extinction & eventually adapt to the cats.

[Anonymous No.6982077]

>>6980665
Zerzan's definitely idiotic in an assortment of ways, but I don't think he ever admitted to puritanism with his primitivism. He's admitted that he wouldn't be able to live without civilization, but still desires its downfall all the same.

[Anonymous No.6982240]

>>6980963
>count birds during fall
>count birds during early spring
Goofdunnit! The cats did 9/11!

Also, cats isn't an invasive species in Europe.

>>6982069
>I've killed dozens of feral cats that I've encountered in the woods
Did it made your pee-pee feel strange?

>>6982077
>I wish to be raped to death by nigger centaur mares with strapons of depleted uranium
>but it would kill me
>so let's just talk about how nice it would be if *other people* was raped to death by nigger centaur mares with strapons of depleted uranium

[Anonymous No.6982246]

>>6979107
What he said. All liberalism / libertarianism basically ignores metaphysics and cloaks egoistical self-interest in spooks that he calls rights.

[Anonymous No.6982345]

>>6978893
>watership down

>be libertarian
>no restricting environmental rules
>have rabbits gassed to death because you want to build apartments on the site of their warren
Yes

[Anonymous No.6982371]

I don't understand how Heinlein is libertarian reading.

[Anonymous No.6982606]

"How We Invented Freedom" By Daniel Hannan

[Anonymous No.6982619]

>>6982240
>Also, cats isn't an invasive species in Europe.
Domesticated ones are. They're the only predators with human protection, food supply and health care.

Wild cats (not feral, actual wild) are top lads, the rest should be drowned.

[Anonymous No.6982630]

>>6982371
Starship Troopers is a criticism of war and militancy. The soldiers themselves are caricatures of the absurdity of humans physically fighting a war at all when starships are available.

The space navy did all the real work. The troopers are 19th century Samurai masturbating to Bushdio and polishing their swords while men with muskets wage the real war.

[Anonymous No.6982641]

>>6982630

That's stupid. Everyone knows (except maybe Obama) that to wage war you need to hold territory and you do that best with infantry.

[Anonymous No.6982706]

>>6982606

Eurocentric nonsense written by an Englishman stupid enough to take the whole "cuck" thing seriously and who lives in fear that the evil Europeans will take away his non-existent Merrie England

But sure, if you want to read the book about history and politics JRR Tolkien would have written if he had had a lobotomy, then dive in.

-----

How about Kelton's The Time It Never Rained.

[Anonymous No.6983125]

Silvia Federici
Luther Blisset especially _Q_
Mario Tronti

[Anonymous No.6983406]

>>6978893
Read pic related.

Seriously though, I'm pretty lefty in many ways but she makes me go off like an AM talk radio host.

[Anonymous No.6983423]

>>6982641
Right, but that's because of WHY we want to hold territory (Because we want something out of it).

But a space faring civilization doesn't actually need to hold territory. Planets are resources and nothing more. If all you want out of a planet inhabited by ayy lmao's is the minerals in it, why do you need to hold it? Just nuke the fuck out of it and send miners down in hazmat suits afterwards.

[Anonymous No.6983437]

>>6978893
Libertarians are just adults who never got past their angsty teenage years. They love playing word games, too.

e.g.,

>Taxation is THEFT!
>You disagree with me? You're a STATIST!

Austrian "economics" is also laughable.

[Anonymous No.6983554]

Why did this thread become yet another socialist circlejerk?

[Anonymous No.6983561]

>>6979110
The labor theory of value is probably the best example why marxism is retarded in theory, even worse in practice though.

[Anonymous No.6983562]

>>6983554
Since Proudhon.

[Anonymous No.6983590]

>>6983561
Marx wasn't the first person to suggest the labor theory of value, though. I'm pretty sure Ricardo and Smith had their own, though not as sophisticated.

[Anonymous No.6983605]

>>6983437
>Austrian "economics" is also laughable.
So laughable that marxist and socialist "economists" don't even exist.

[Anonymous No.6983615]

>>6983605
they do exist. where the fuck have you been?
also, most 'economists' are just managers of a bourgeois economy. so other non-bourgeois economists will look very different, obviously.

you're dumb as fuck btw.

[Anonymous No.6983669]

>>6983615
You sound salty. They do exist, few and far between and the professional people who take them seriously are even fewer.

Explain to me what a "non-bourgerois" economy is.

[Anonymous No.6983672]

>>6983562
What does that mean?

[Anonymous No.6983678]

>>6983615
The "bourgeois argument" is so fucking pathetic. Its just calling people the devil. Grow the fuck up and try thinking for yourself for once.

[Anonymous No.6983722]

>>6983669
>bourgerois
A pathetic misspelling on your part.

A non-bourgeois economy could, for example, be the late "feudal" economy of France under Louis XIV.

[Anonymous No.6983957]

The Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin. Hopefully it will change your mind.

[Anonymous No.6984079]

>>6983957
Why is it so important to control everyone?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6984083]

>>6984079
Why is it so important for parents to tech their children how to do things right?

Because we're trying to build a better world.

[Anonymous No.6984095]

>>6984083
what economics books have you read?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6984106]

>>6984083
Teach*

[Anonymous No.6984107]

>>6984083
Socialism wouldn't make a better world. The expansion of democracy would lead to ruin. Every organization controlled by democracy is awful. Police brutality is democracy. Mutilating the genitals of children is democracy.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6984119]

>>6984107
You're not very convincing

[Anonymous No.6984127]

>>6984119
neither are you

[Anonymous No.6984130]

>>6978893
The first thing you need to understand is that Heinlein, even when not strictly writing things whose settings agreed with his viewpoints, went through various phases and periods of political thought throughout his life - as many authors and indeed humans are wont to do. He, for example, began life as a worker for a handful of socialist efforts, before later moving to more statist thinking and so on. A transformation over time, if you will.
One ought to read works that both relate to the concept as well as potentially argue against it. I'll try to include a few of both as well as just general things that are informative on the topic.

Hobbes' Leviathan
Machiavelli's The Prince
F.A. Hayek and John Maynard Keynes, various
Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, potentially into Marx's Das Kapital (does not require either agreement or continuation into the Manifesto and other works)
Stirner, lmao u kno which 1
Bakunin, various
Kropotkin, various
Orwell, various - I'm particularly fond of his essay on Rudyard Kipling, although with certainty I acknowledge that his most known works are overrated. Homage to Catalonia is also excellent.

>>6978901
lmao not even statists argue this anymore. A successful Statist regime would want to have a public who've become so devoted that they would fight to the death to defend it, armed or otherwise. Removal of the ownership of arms is a sign of immense insecurity and tacit acknowledgement of underlying instability. Anti-gun efforts are predominantly funded by oligarchs whose primary tender is fear (since lord knows they would never want to spend too much of their own money if they could help it).

Statist, capitalist countries allow firearms ownership if they're secure in their foundations. To revoke that ownership is acceptance of failure and the victory of fear and ineptitude over the state.

[Anonymous No.6984135]

>>6984119
You like police brutality and mutilating the genitals of children? Well I don't, fuck off and shove your collectivism up your ass.

[Anonymous No.6984136]

>>6984107
Every organization controlled by a central and elite power is awful. Police brutality is used to protect the elite (e.g. demonstrations against WTO, EU etc.). Mutilation of children's genitals is carried out by a clerical and cultural elite.

Things are not as clear-cut between democracy and its "opposites" as you want them to be.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6984139]

>>6984127
Read your Kropotkin, kid.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6984148]

>>6984135
Yet again we have a newfig who assumes I'm communist. We eve started this off with a Kropotkin book rec.

[Anonymous No.6984153]

>>6984136
>Police brutality is used to protect the elite
this is a meme and not an actual point
>>6984139
what economics books have you read?

[Anonymous No.6984160]

>>6984148
Kropotkin was a communist. Seriously Butters, stop being this shit.

[Anonymous No.6984162]

>>6984136
> Every organization controlled by a central and elite power is awful.

Yea... and democracy is what creates that elitist power. Do you think the hand of God comes down and makes rich people? Fucking idiot.

The police protect themselves before anyone else. After that they protect their property, ie those they get protection money from. Power is hold by those that have the guns, and them alone.

Democracy is first and foremost about conformity, all the social norms that stifle our individuality are created by democracy. Circumcision, both male and female, is carried out due to a sense of conformity, a sense of being part of the community.

Yea, its pretty clear up. We're either free or we're not.

[Anonymous No.6984166]

>>6984148
Kropotkin was probably the first communist.... Besides, I'm opposed to all of socialism.

[Anonymous No.6984174]

>>6984153
Responding with 'that is a meme' is a meme and not an actual point.

You know damn well that police and army forces is used to suppress civil uprisings all over the world.

[Anonymous No.6984182]

>>6984153
Nigger it doesn't fucking matter what he lists because you'll just belittle his readings as wrong or fake and gay or whatever.

He could list Friedman, Hayek, Keynes, Laffer, Smith, Marx, even the fucking Meme Team down at Freakonomics and you would still call him a shit-spewing mongoloid on an Uzbekistan Cuneiform BBS.

Like, I'm fine if you disagree, I don't even particularly ENJOY Buttles' presence, but goddamn, don't front as if you actually wanna have a conversation. Make your shitposts and get out while you can still get a Dada kick out of it.

[Anonymous No.6984183]

>>6984174
> police and army forces is used to suppress civil uprisings all over the world.

Of course they do, but most of the time the elite is the police themselves.

[Anonymous No.6984193]

>>6984162
>Yea... and democracy is what creates that elitist power.
Democracy was won from kings, lords, dictators etc. Democracy combined with capitalism reproduce the same elite that it promised to get rid of.

>Circumcision, both male and female, is carried out due to a sense of conformity, a sense of being part of the community.
Similar to how you post ideas that conform to capitalist society and gives you a sense of being part of a capitalist community.

[Anonymous No.6984204]

>>6984174
>You know damn well that police and army forces is used to suppress civil uprisings all over the world.
as is their job
but the idea police brutality (actual brutality, not violent protesters getting what they deserve) is done with the interests of the "elite" at heart is ridiculous
police brutality is done because police are violent dickheads who protect each other
>>6984182
my point is he hasn't read any of them which is why he avoids the question
I don't know why he doesn't lie

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6984213]

>>6984166
He's usually sited as an anarchist. No matter, he wasn't the first Bolshevik

>>6984182
Exactly.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.6984225]

>>6984204
>I don't know why [s]he doesn't lie
Like you?
I'm nothing like you.

[Anonymous No.6984226]

>>6984193
Feudalism is a form of democracy. Kings were originally elected. Dictatorship isn't as simple as idiots might think, no one person can rule a nation, power comes from the army, who's power structure is decided by democracy. Capitalism devoid of any political process wouldn't produce elites, or, everyone would be equally elite.

> Similar to how you post ideas that conform to capitalist society

Yep, falling back to the "bourgeois argument". Fuck off, you're the shill not me.

[Anonymous No.6984242]

>>6984130
Lol pretty much every other country in the world does okay without the Second Amendment
Enjoy your post-Civil War marketing ploy that you've subsumed as a justification for your edginess
>>6984226
>Feudalism is a form of democracy
Have you done any political theory ever

[Anonymous No.6984244]

>>6984213
>Bolshevik

Marx and Engels weren't Bolsheviks either. What the fuck is your point?

>>6984225
What the fuck did he lie about? Its the height of banality to accuse someone in a subjective discussion of lying...

[Anonymous No.6984251]

>>6984242
most developed countries have ready access to firearms
the only developed countries with actual strict gun control are like the UK and Australia
there is no statistical or moral argument that favours restrictive gun control

[Anonymous No.6984256]

>>6984226
>power comes from the army, who's power structure is decided by democracy
Was the structure of The Contras in Nicaragua 'decided by democracy'?

[Anonymous No.6984258]

>>6984251
killing people is bad mmkay
fuck off amerifat if you feel insecure about your masculinity just have a conversation with your dad

[Anonymous No.6984262]

>>6984242
>Lol pretty much every other country in the world does okay without the Second Amendment

No they aren't. Most other countries in the world either have roaming rape gangs or weekly riots after every football match.

> Have you done any political theory ever

Unlike you, I haven't submitted to indoctrination. I see things for what they are, not how others tell me they are.

[Anonymous No.6984270]

>>6984256
Of course.

[Anonymous No.6984272]

>>6984258
I'm not American

[Anonymous No.6984277]

>>6984272
Phew good on you dude

[Anonymous No.6984278]

>>6984251
What are you talking about
Most countries place reasonable controls upon the passage of firearms.
>>6984262
2/10 poor quality bait or unironic /pol/ user, hard to tell the difference nowadays

[Anonymous No.6984279]

>>6984258
How you could possibly read that far into that is crazy. Pro-gun people are non-violent. Do you not understand that?

[Anonymous No.6984282]

>>6984278
>reasonable controls
what a completely meaningless statement

[Anonymous No.6984283]

>>6984270
So the funding that Reagan and his team provided to The Contras with was entirely democratic? If it really was 'decided by democracy', then why did it turn into a scandal when it was revealed to the public?

[Anonymous No.6984284]

>>6984213
Anarchism and communism aren't mutually exclusive. Stop confusing communism with Marxism.

[Anonymous No.6984289]

>>6984282
It's about as meaningful as "actually strict, like the UK and Australia"
Or that "there is no statistical or moral argument that favors gun control"

[Anonymous No.6984291]

>>6984278
> 2/10 poor quality bait or unironic /pol/ user, hard to tell the difference nowadays

Dismissiveness like this is just uninteresting. If you have nothing to discuss with me do not reply.

[Anonymous No.6984300]

>>6984283
Where they got their funding had absolutely no effect on their political structure. Democracy is a tool, not a conclusion.

[Anonymous No.6984302]

>>6984291
There is no way that "Most other countries in the world either have roaming rape gangs or weekly riots after every football match." can be engaged seriously because it's so far from the realms of reasonable discussion

[Anonymous No.6984307]

>>6984289
put forward an argument then
most European countries you can easily acquire a bolt action or pump action
you can own semi autos in many, full autos and CC in a few too

[Anonymous No.6984311]

>>6984284
Oh no, they are very mutually exclusive. Anarchism is the individual controlling their own life without regulation by the group. Communism is mutual enslavement. That Marx made up such complete bullshit about capitalism really doesn't effect anything.

[Anonymous No.6984312]

>>6984262
>weekly riots after every football match
What a stupid comparison, fisticuffs after a football game =/= chimpouts where everyone starts shooting at everyone, they're just good fun.

[Anonymous No.6984315]

>>6984300
So, hypothetically, when an army general receives $1 million from an American president and uses that money to hire subordinates that has no effect on the the political structure of his army?

[Anonymous No.6984323]

>>6984302
England had institutional rape culture, where Muslims are allowed to abduct and keep young girls to rape as they please. As well as weekly riots after every football match. This is reality, face the facts. Dispossessing anyone of anything will always lead to negative outcomes.

[Anonymous No.6984335]

>>6984307
I live in Australia and our nation-state seems pretty fine
The right to bear arms is not an inherent right despite what the Bill of Rights says so therefore the State is under no obligation to not-regulate them
>>6984323
Please, please, please go back to /pol/

[Anonymous No.6984336]

>>6984312
Violent crime per capita is higher in England, but its with pipes, pool cues and broken bottles. The threat of death that guns provide saves lives by stopping violence before it starts. Have you ever even thought a thought?

>>6984315
Yes.

[Anonymous No.6984339]

>>6984323
Sorry, "has institutional rape culture", England is still turning a blind eye to Islamic abuse of children.

[Anonymous No.6984343]

>>6984323
/pol/ confirmed
There was nothing institutional about the Rotherham incident, just a couple of corrupt labour council members, that doesn't make it institutional. Nor are there riots after every game, this isn't the 80's/90's, riots have become pretty rare.

[Anonymous No.6984345]

>>6984335
You're an idiot if you think I'm making some racist point. Islam is not a race. The state is not a race. Communism is not a race. Grow. The. Fuck. Up.

[Anonymous No.6984350]

>>6984343
Lol, it was multiple incidents in different cities. And of course its still on going somewhere. And it doesn't matter how rare it is, that England's favorite past time is breaking a bottle over someone's head while having a lit fag in their mouth, is testimony to how little respect they have for property rights.

[Anonymous No.6984352]

>>6984335
>I live in Australia
so do I
there is no such thing as an inherent right

[Anonymous No.6984358]

>>6984352
Glad you think so, because it means you can't make any moral argument for gun control bro
>>6984345
I'm not claiming it's a racist point (although, of course it is). I'm saying it's a /pol/ talking point and not actually representative of anything that goes on in England

[Anonymous No.6984363]

>>6984345
You misunderstand how racism works. There are no such thing as "races", not really, biologically. They're a social constructs. The discourses of racism can also have groups that aren't ethnic as objects. A lot of the talk about Islam is racist. It racializes the religion.

[Anonymous No.6984365]

>>6984363
races are not social constructs
categorizations are absolutes and always correct
read more books retard
zzz

[Anonymous No.6984366]

>>6984311
Oh come on. Now you're just trolling. Have you honestly never heard of communist anarchism?

[Anonymous No.6984383]

>>6984358
Well, I don't know what /pol/ talking points even are, so yea.

>>6984363
Yea agreed, races don't exist. That's why I wasn't making a racist argument, a "/pol/ talking point". I wasn't "racializes the religion". Question: what's the largest Islamic nation? I bet you wouldn't know without looking it up.

>>6984366
Of course I know what that is... but doesn't matter, call itself whatever it wants, democracy, ANY regulation of the individual, is always authoritarian.

[Anonymous No.6984387]

>>6984383
Indonesia is my guess. Also I wasn't accusing you of racism, just thought I would point out you CAN be racist about religious groups

[Anonymous No.6984393]

>>6984387
Yep you're right. But no, one can't be racist towards ideas. Some people use Islam's present unpopularity to be upfront about their racism towards Arabs. But its not like those racists really understand why Islam is so bad.

[Anonymous No.6984404]

>>6984393
Nah, because generally they don't know if they're Arabs or what. People firebomb mosques, and all kinds of ethnic groups people are Muslims. These people generally have no problem with Arab Christians, in fact they often complain about the poor treatment of them in Arab countries.

[Anonymous No.6984411]

>>6984358
>Glad you think so, because it means you can't make any moral argument for gun control bro
moral arguments aren't based on rights?
there is no argument for gun control
>>6984363
Islam is a piece of shit religion, white Muslims are some of the worst of them

[Anonymous No.6984412]

>>6984383
Yeah because people from Indonesia suffer no racial discrimination whatsoever, bro
You might want to read Orientalism
>>6984411
Guns kill people therefore they should be banned wooo there's your argument

[Anonymous No.6984413]

>>6984411
White Muslims tend to be the most lax about their faith, so this makes no sense. Go to Bosnia sometime.

[Anonymous No.6984419]

>>6978908

I'm not sure there's a bigger waste of time, apart from Hegel's books

[Anonymous No.6984428]

>>6984412
if you don't want to engage in actual discussion then why even bother commenting?
>>6984413
meant converts

[Anonymous No.6984435]

>libertarianism
why haven't mods banned this guy for underage yet?

[Anonymous No.6984437]

>>6984428
That is an argument, burden of proof is on you now bro

[Anonymous No.6984441]

>>6984437
hands kill people we should cut off everyone's hands

[Anonymous No.6984445]

>>6984441
Difference is utility gained from hands versus utility gained from guns, next

[Anonymous No.6984449]

>>6984445
we should ban baseball bats then

[Anonymous No.6984458]

>>6984449
Baseball bats are less lethal/much harder to kill with than guns, next

[Anonymous No.6984472]

>>6984458
your argument was that guns kill people, not that guns are easier to kill people with than other means

[Anonymous No.6984480]

>>6984472
Okay, so my argument is adjusted slightly
Next

[Anonymous No.6984490]

>>6984480
no you completely changed your argument
why should baseball bats be legal?
after all they can kill people easier than soccer balls

[Anonymous No.6984509]

>>6984490
No, it goes from "guns should be banned because they kill people" to "guns should be banned because they kill people easier"
next

[Anonymous No.6984536]

>>6984509
answer my second question
why should baseball bats be legal?
why is the ability to kill a grounds for banning?

[Anonymous No.6984555]

>>6984536
Because baseball bats provide a broader utility than killing and they are less lethal than guns. As I mentioned.

[Anonymous No.6984557]

>>6984555
Have you ever even touched a baseball bat?

[Anonymous No.6984572]

>>6984555
>Because baseball bats provide a broader utility
baseball bats have less utility than guns though?
also soccer balls are less lethal than baseball bats, therefore we should join them

[Anonymous No.6984577]

>>6984557
Yes and I can tell you straight away that they are less dangerous then guns. NEXT

[Anonymous No.6984599]

>>6984572
Please type in English.

[Anonymous No.6984607]

>>6984599
>therefore we should ban them
answer the question now

[Anonymous No.6984615]

>>6984607
Are you saying we should ban soccer balls or baseball bats?

Either way neither posses the lethality of a gun, you can't pull off a mass shooting with a soccer ball or a baseball bat.

[Anonymous No.6984631]

>>6984615
we should ban baseball bats because they're more lethal than soccer balls
mass shootings are an infinitesimally small amount of crime and almost exclusively an American phenomenon, it's an erroneous issue to legislate on

[Anonymous No.6984642]

I'll just leave this here for y'all

[Anonymous No.6984647]

>>6984631
it's a small issue outside of America because guns are more controlled elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.6984653]

>>6984647
in Switzerland by law every adult male owns an assault rifle which he is allowed to carry and shoot
there are 2 mass shooting on record in Switzerland, one in 1912 and one in 2001

[Anonymous No.6984662]

>>6984653
The gun laws in Switzerland are quite different from the ones in the US. iirc there are guidelines on where the ammunition is stored, handguns, it's all just different in general it cannot be compared to the US where any mentally ill bloke can buy a gun.

[Anonymous No.6984667]

>>6983678
>He doesnt know what the bourgeoisie is

[Anonymous No.6984668]

>>6984653
In Switzerland by law every male is required to go on a military training.
In 'Murrica by law every retard incapable of having finished middle school can buy enough weapons to arm an African militia.

[Anonymous No.6984679]

>>6984642
This doesn't mention the lethality of crimes. Nor does it mention how a jurisdiction classifies a crime as "violent". A lot of the stuff on there is basically worthless.

[Anonymous No.6984683]

>>6984653
>ameritards trying to justify their retardness

A) All men undergo basic military training, contrary to the US. After the training they're part of the militia -> keep guns. They're much better trained than your average US commie hunter.
B) They're not allowed to keep the ammunition if it's a military gun
C) "every adult male" -> "In 2005 over 10% of households contained handguns, compared to 18% of U.S. households that contained handguns. In 2005 almost 29% of households in Switzerland contained firearms of some kind, compared to almost 43% in the US."
D) It's tightly regulated when you buy a gun or ammo - you need to show criminal record, not be psychiatrically disqualified etc. pp.
E) You can't carry your weapon on you like in the US, you need to prove that you need to carry it for some specified danger (private security etc., "the king of England might invade to get his tea taxes" doesn't count)

Educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

[Anonymous No.6984732]

>>6984668
>>6984683
I have not mentioned America at any point (nor am I American), I am merely advocating for private firearm ownership
>They're not allowed to keep the ammunition if it's a military gun
yes they are, it is no longer provided by the government though
>"every adult male" -> "In 2005 over 10% of households contained handguns, compared to 18% of U.S. households that contained handguns. In 2005 almost 29% of households in Switzerland contained firearms of some kind, compared to almost 43% in the US."
again why are you referring to the US?
that is still a very high amount of firearms yet mass shootings and gun crime in general are near non existant
>It's tightly regulated when you buy a gun or ammo - you need to show criminal record, not be psychiatrically disqualified etc.
at no point have I advocated for felons or the violently insane to have weapons
I wouldn't call that tight regulation either
>You can't carry your weapon on you like in the US, you need to prove that you need to carry it for some specified danger (private security etc., "the king of England might invade to get his tea taxes" doesn't count)
that applies to loaded firearms
but do you really think carry laws are what's stopping mass shootings?

[Anonymous No.6984750]

>>6979107
>someone wrote a book about this meme

[Anonymous No.6985494]

>>6984667
I do... you're just repeating the "bourgeoisie argument"... Marxism is baby's first ideology.

[Anonymous No.6985503]

>>6984732
>but do you really think carry laws are what's stopping mass shootings?
what does?

[Anonymous No.6985514]

>>6985503
mass shootings are a byproduct of insincere American culture

[Anonymous No.6985531]

>>6978901
White male shooters are a minority compared to nigger shooters

Also most mass shooters are pro gun control democrats. I get a sense that leftists don't trust themselves.

[Anonymous No.6985550]

>>6985514
Do a little research, see if there are more American mass shooting, or more Pakistani suicide bombings. And see which have killed more people.