/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6970563]

>finally decide to read Homer
>remember the Iliad is about the Trojan War
>keen as fuck to read about the trojan horse
>500 pages in and wondering where the fuck is the Trojan horse
>finish book, where was the horse??
>discover it's never even mentioned in the Iliad

Fuck I was devastated

Finished Odyssey recently as well.

Preferred Odyssey. I think I have been too predisposed to violent war movies for the Iliad to have a big impact on me. Still cool though

[Anonymous No.6970589]

Hector best boy.
Achilles literally shit.

[Anonymous No.6970590]

>>6970589

[Anonymous No.6970610]

>>6970563
I read the iliad and the odyssey when I was still in middle school, lad
how people manage to get some sort of understanding out of it amazes me, those books are literally fairy tales with the occasional moral thrown in

I'm being 100% serious right now, not even meming or trolling

oh and also the reason the horse isn't in there is because the book ends with hector's funeral, the war was still going on. kindof a bummer though yeah.
I remember reading a book that filled in the gap, it's a very interesting story what with the taking back of helen and all that. Forget the exact place I read about it though... oh well

[Anonymous No.6970611]

>>6970610

[Anonymous No.6970617]

>>6970611
meant for >>6970589

[Anonymous No.6970619]

>>6970610
I'm pretty sure the Iliad ends with the Greeks starting to massacre everyone in the city.

[Anonymous No.6970620]

>>6970617
Okay cunt

[Anonymous No.6970624]

>>6970619
>Achilleus grants the Trojans a grace period to perform their funeral rituals. The poem ends with the funeral of Hektor – though we know that soon Achilleus will die and Troy will be captured.

[Anonymous No.6970626]

>>6970610
Are you stupid? The point of reading them is to understand Greek culture, the same way watching Saving Private Ryan or some other famous war movie would help you understand American culture. It also contains tons of references to other myths and depicts their religious practices, not to mention the fact that the interactions with the gods basically show the philosophical worldview of the entire civilization. And beyond all that, it's also worth reading just to be able to get the references to it that are littered throughout all of Western art and literature. Obviously the story itself is no great work of literature, but saying that kind of misses the point.

[Anonymous No.6970637]

>>6970624
The massacre appears somewhere, maybe as a prediction. In the edition I read, it was at the end of the book.

[Anonymous No.6970643]

>>6970626
>the story itself is no great work of literature
>trillions of western artists worshiped it through history

ok kid

[Anonymous No.6970648]

>>6970626
I live in america and I can tell you saving private ryan is a bad example of 'american culture', you would be better off reading maybe gatsby for the pure hedonism of it. it's just ridiculous basing your views off a war movie, that whole mindset doesn't even exist anymore. anyways.

well regardless, yeah I can concede you should probably read them if just to get a loose grasp of what the greeks were like. yes they did insert their mary sues and their views on celibacy, you should read it at least once. My point is that it's not... well what i said in my original post. it's fairy tales but it does tell a story about them, yes. it's just not a good literary work

>>6970637
yeah, maybe there's a different edition somewhere or something, because I remember reading it too. But with the trojan horse in it. Maybe it was this book I had that was like a compendium of classic works that had it..

>>6970643
If trillions of western artists worshiped someone named ayn rand, would you worship her too?

[Anonymous No.6970663]

>>6970648
g2g need sleep will respnd in the morning if ppl respond

[Anonymous No.6970666]

>>6970648
Lmao I'm American, haven't seen the movie, just picked the first war movie that came to mind. It was a bad comparison to be honest, I just meant it's similar in that it's popular entertainment that reveals a lot about its culture. And yes it's fairy tales, but all of the Greeks' fairy tales are central to the Western canon.

[Anonymous No.6970667]

>>6970648
4/10 b8

[Anonymous No.6972421]

>>6970626
>Obviously the story itself is no great work of literature

Fuck off

[Anonymous No.6972440]

>>6970563
>"Iliad is about the Trojan War"
>Being this retarded

[Anonymous No.6972455]

This is probably the most plebian thread of all time.

[Anonymous No.6972471]

>>6970589
Nah bro, Team Achilles best team.

[Anonymous No.6972572]

at least you read best translation though your taste is shit.

[Anonymous No.6972620]

>>6972440
This.
The Iliad and Odyssey exalt the nobility of Honor.

[Anonymous No.6972622]

>>6972620
the iliad is about force, dumbass

[Anonymous No.6972626]

>>6970563
How can anyone be this pleb and still know how to type?

[Anonymous No.6972635]

>>6972622
The very first word of the Iliad is “RAGE.” The “RAGE” of Achilles when his honor is violated and his rightful prize and love is taken from him by his very own commander.
Right here we see Man versus State, as Achilles is the superior warrior, and as he takes all the risks, he ought get the reward. That is the Natural Law of Zeus, for after Achilles Natural Rights are violated and Achilles quits, Zeus sees to it that the Greeks begin to lose, as Zeus’s will was done.
Long before Atlas Shrugged in Rand’s cheap novel, Achilles quit the Greek army.
Homer shows that women who honor their commitments, like Penelope, lead to happy endings. Women who disregard their commitments, like Helen, lead to War.
Achilles quits for the sake of Honor, refuses to return when offered millions times more prizes, arguing that once honor is taken away, mere money/prizes cannot buy it back. He also reasons that all the wealth in the world is not worth him losing his life in an arena where his honor was taken away. When offered honors and awards, Achilles states, “I receive my honor from Zeus, not from corrupt Kings."
And too Achilles returns to fight for Honor, so as to avenge the death of his friend Patroculus, knowing full well he will die.
Simply put, Achilles is a man who lives and dies not for mere prizes, nor perks, nor tenure, nor titles, nor money, but for honor, and honor alone.
A few hundred years later, Socrates would invoke Achilles while facing death at his own trial. Socrates was offered perks and prizes and life if he would only recant his teachings that “Virtue does not come from money, but money and every lasting good of man derives form virtue.”
But then Socrates asked, “Would Achilles back down from battle if bribed by physical wealth?” Socrates reasoned he would be dishonoring the Great Achilles if he ever recanted his teachings.

[Anonymous No.6972640]

>>6972635
Good post.

[Anonymous No.6972643]

>>6972635
tldr. i spied "Rand" in there and my shitpost senses tingled

[Anonymous No.6972644]

>>6970626
>Obviously the story itself is no great work of literature, but saying that kind of misses the point.

[Anonymous No.6972664]

>>6972643
It's ok, you can continue to think the Iliad is about war or force or anything else. I'm just here for the bantz.

[Anonymous No.6972674]

>>6972643
It is about the rage of Achillies, and tests his sense of honour (or 'Arate' excellence or nobility).

[Anonymous No.6972697]

>>6972640
that's becauze he didn't write it

[Anonymous No.6972703]

>>6972697
Weh-weh-weh!

[Anonymous No.6972706]

>>6972674
arete

[Anonymous No.6972709]

>>6972706
My mistake. Thanks. ^^

[Anonymous No.6972717]

>>6972674
For what it's worth, the "rage" of Achilles is "menin", the word used for the rage of the gods; it's used most often of Zeus. The rage of Achilles is inhuman and divine.

"Arete" is virtue/excellence, it's "timē" that is honor.

[Anonymous No.6972722]

>>6972717
Yeah - thanks for going into more detail.

[Anonymous No.6972727]

>>6972717
That's interesting I wish I new ancient Greek

[Anonymous No.6972730]

>>6972674
The true hero, the true subject matter, the center of the Iliad is force. The force that men wield, the force that subdues men, in the face of which human flesh shrinks back. The human soul seems ever conditioned by its ties with force, swept away, blinded by the force it believes it can control, bowed under the constraint of the force it submits to. Those who have supposed that force, thanks to progress, now belongs to the past, have seen a record of that in Homer's poem; those wise enough to discern the force at the center of all human history, today as in the past, find in the Iliad the most beautiful and flawless of mirrors.

[Anonymous No.6972804]

>>6972730
This is true as well. I guess it's no surprise that such a great work has more than one theme.

[Anonymous No.6972808]

>>6970648
>I live in america and I can tell you saving private ryan is a bad example of 'american culture',

Yeah, it's more like Blood Meridian.