/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6969659]

So is there any value in not being atheist? It seems like you are just shutting doors on yourself.

[Anonymous No.6969667]

>Le pascal's wager

[Anonymous No.6969671]

>>6969659

Indeed, it's a very fragmented existence.

[Anonymous No.6969672]

Epicurus has the best answer for this. Even if the gods exist, they probably don't care about us and can't be reasoned with. Enjoy your life as a moral.

[Anonymous No.6969675]

>>6969659
obeying natural law leads to the perfection of the individual and thus their personal fulfillment

[Anonymous No.6969678]

[Anonymous No.6969683]

[Anonymous No.6969688]

>>6969675
>perfection of the individual

To believe such a thing. I guess that is why faith and ego are the requirements.

[Anonymous No.6969698]

>>6969672
>Epicurus

Truly the lord of fedoras

[Anonymous No.6969699]

>>6969688
or an Aristotelian view of the world

[Anonymous No.6969701]

>>6969659
You get to feel better about your shitty life because heaven!

[Anonymous No.6969726]

>>6969659
Here:


.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOY-jJeOeBk

Link is brutal honesty that people can't handle.

[Anonymous No.6969736]

>>6969726
Does that add anything to the discussion?

[Anonymous No.6969758]

faith is the greatest value of all

[Anonymous No.6969774]

>>6969758
faith in what? One can have faith without necessarily being 'religious.'

[Anonymous No.6969778]

>>6969736

Yeah, acceptance to one's mortality is widely rejected by man made stories, but that's okay because these stories give comfort to the dying and the family of the dying. But the reality is, those are just stories, and you're going to die; end. It's simplicity that is often rejected, because the stories are far more extravagant than the real thing.

[Anonymous No.6969781]

>>6969659
no one wants to be an atheist

[Anonymous No.6969786]

>>6969758
atheism requires just as much faith as religion. They just don't acknowledge it.

[Anonymous No.6969788]

>>6969659

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRTsInTXAgk

[Anonymous No.6969795]

>>6969786
nice meme m8

[Anonymous No.6969802]

>>6969786
Faith in what though?

>>6969774 here

You fagets keep using the word faith without predicating it in regard to a subject, nor are you attempting in the slightest to delineate what the fuck 'faith' means. Faith can mean a lot of things in a lot of differing contexts. If you are purposefully obscure and vague, well yeah, of course everyone 'has' 'faith.'

[Anonymous No.6969828]

>>6969802
It depends. Atheism is a broad term that has been rendered vague and undisciplined by it's new and militant vocal adherents.

[Anonymous No.6969893]

>>6969828

You are correct in that manner.

In regard to myself, I guess generally I would consider myself an apathetic atheist that does not care for the abstraction of theology (specifically in the technical sense, onto-theology). When I speak in regard to the issue of faith, I am referring discretely to intimate moments that could one could predicate as a 'religious experience;' but I am of the persuasion to not predicate that moment as anything other than life unfolding, neither conceptually abstracting it in a reductionistic scientific sense nor a theological abstract sense, e.g. some sort of grand teleology that attempts to make sense of every event as being subtended by 'God.'

In other words, 'faith' for me refers to the capacity and experiential relation that I have with the Other, my 'faith' in the Other, my faith in my futural possibilities. The unknown path that is set before me with the choices that I have to bear whether I am 'free' or 'determined;' I bear the existential weight either way, and sometimes my relation to these possibilities is purely within the purview of what I would call 'faith;' a leap of 'faith' without any reference to a grand 'Being', i.e. God.

I am an atheist that is vehemently against any sort of abstraction from life-experience, and thinks that the basis for most abstract issues such as 'freedom,' 'God,' 'soul,' all have their conceptual genesis from our intimate moments with the Other person, encounters with death, birth, moments of the sublime, etc.

I just find the issue of determining whether or not 'God' exists as an irrelevant issue. I am an existential atheist insofar as I don't pray, go to mass, participate in a religious community, etc.

[Anonymous No.6969900]

>>6969893
enjoy Hell dude

[Anonymous No.6969922]

>>6969900

I don't know what 'hell' is, but it sounds fun since you said I would enjoy it ;)

[Anonymous No.6969958]

>>6969672
>they probably don't care about us and can't be reasoned with
This is a bullshit and baseless claim

[Devitt !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6969966]

>>6969958
>This is a bullshit and baseless claim
just like all religious beliefs

[Anonymous No.6969967]

>>6969922
Holy fuck

[Anonymous No.6969979]

>>6969966
Great way to push off the argument onto something else man, great discussion. That comment is completely related to my post.

[Anonymous No.6969984]

>>6969979
>not filtering Devshitt
it will make your /lit/ experience 10x better easily.

he's the dumbest tripfag since Foucault

[WOLFSHIEM !!tuOwy1ct2dy No.6969985]

>>6969788
This is an absolutely terrible video.

>without god you cannot have moral values

This is a statement done in reflection of Aristotelian-Thomistic natural morality and the rejection of it and, thus, the support of a mechanistic or anti-teleological would imply there is no natural morality. All that you could grasp from morality is what is basically a non-aggression pact and what the individual or community supports or finds permissible. Modern morality is only conflict resolution.

It is absolutely retarded to think "with God, all is permitted" as those who fight for God fight for an ideology that God asserts. They do not permit many things and the whole reason there are things that the ideology is fighting for is because it clashes with another ideology and the people in it (or the ideology itself) permits violence to overcome the clash.

>If you posit or perceive or legitimise yourself as a direct instrument of the divine will, then of course all narrow, petty moral considerations disappear

This adds to my previous point. It is not that moral considerations disappear whatsoever but rather that the modernist version of morality is scrapped for another system. His language is biased because of his own ideology.

And of course the main point is the talk of the other. The concept of working towards or for something in a "job-like" way. In this sense, the modern understanding of God and his followers is tied to communist works so the comparison is apt but in thinking religion is like this forgets natural law ALTOGETHER and posits god and gods in modern cartesian god-objects. This also ignores that his liberalism can and has led to the same thing at times. It is not correct to say "because there is an other, you have violence" because others exist for most all ideological systems. Whether it is permissible to go to violence other the other is a separate thing entirely.

This has little to do with morality, but anti-liberalism.

[Devitt !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6969989]

>>6969985
whoa i remember you from mgs4 threads

[Anonymous No.6969995]

I think this is one of the first posts I've seen here in a while that wasn't full of shit. I'm actually surprised someone had something worth saying.

[Anonymous No.6969999]

>>6969726
For some reason that made me feel better

[WOLFSHIEM !!tuOwy1ct2dy No.6970001]

>>6969989
September 1st nigga

[Anonymous No.6970010]

>>6969989
>>6970001
>playing pixel toys
>tripfags
ask me how I know you're both children, or manchildren and shouldn't be taken seriously

i won't reply though because you're both going into the filter

[Anonymous No.6970011]

Atheism and theist alike, most people are death worshippers who deny the immortal essence they are in contact with, choosing to believe that everything ends with their sentimental attachments.

[WOLFSHIEM !!tuOwy1ct2dy No.6970017]

>>6970010
I wish only that I could stop enjoying the fun I have and reach your level of refined fun.

[Devitt !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6970018]

>>6970010
mgs4 came out like 7 years ago, yeah i played video games when i was a kid

[Anonymous No.6970033]

Yo but have I told you guys about Aquinas?

[Anonymous No.6970035]

>>6970010
who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.6970047]

Even if god did exist I wouldn't be able to get past doing all the rituals and sacraments, this door is better off being shut.

[WOLFSHIEM !!tuOwy1ct2dy No.6970078]

>>6970047
I severely doubt that. The issue here if the understanding of their worth and understanding them for most people.

[Anonymous No.6970079]

>>6969989
What a mess of a computer game.

[Anonymous No.6970105]

>>6969659
Being an atheist means you miss out on a full relationship with the Divine.

[Devitt !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6970110]

>>6970079
but it was a ps3 game

[Anonymous No.6970111]

>>6970105
but I don't want to have schizophrenia

[Anonymous No.6970115]

>>6970105
You can only achieve Gnosis when you're a Gnostic, yahweh boy

[Anonymous No.6970117]

>>6969683
Elevated Lol

[Anonymous No.6970193]

>>6970110
And the Play Station three is a computer, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.6970215]

Fedoras: the thread

[Anonymous No.6970217]

>>6970215
nice tumblr gif

[Devitt !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6970220]

>>6970193
>i call ps3s "computers"

[Anonymous No.6970237]

>>6970215
*literally*

[Anonymous No.6970244]

>>6970220
>A device that computes, especially a programmable [usually] electronic machine that performs high-speed mathematical or logical operations or that assembles, stores, correlates, or otherwise processes information.

Technically, it is a computer.

[Anonymous No.6970249]

>>6970220
>namefag who posts this kind of shit >>6970151 calling other people fedoras

[Anonymous No.6970303]

>So is there any value in not being an atheist?

Well, God is real, so you're probably better off not being on his shitlist.

[Anonymous No.6970359]

>>6970303

God's 'existence' is equitable and determinable my consciousness, so like a chair? God's as 'real' as a chair? Cool beans.

Serious point, however, why do we throw around the word 'real,' 'existence,' etc. in regard to God, as if God had the same ontological status as that of a chair?

[Anonymous No.6970377]

>>6970303

>God is real

[empirical evidence needed]

[Devitt !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6970386]

>>6970377
there's no empirical evidence for god's existence

the more you remind christfags of this the more butthurt they get

[Anonymous No.6970391]

>>6970386
Your posts are so utterly vapid of fucking insight, please just fuck off tripfag (btw, I am not a theist)

[Devitt !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6970403]

>>6970391
butthurt christfag detected

keep worshiping literal nothingness you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.6970405]

>>6970403

I am an atheist you fuck. I don't believe in God. I deny the holy spirit, etc.

But your posts are so completely and utterly shit in terms of insight, I would prefer an insightful christian before I even contemplated reading your posts.

[Anonymous No.6970408]

>>6970220
PS3 is a supercomputer with too much POWAH

[Devitt !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6970409]

>>6970405
sure you aren't

[Devitt !!IAN5a2RHlG3 No.6970429]

>>6970409
Stop using my trip to make atheists look bad.

[Devitt !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6970433]

>>6970429
>doesn't know the difference between a trip and a name

[Devitt !!IAN5a2RHlG3 No.6970438]

>>6970433
You're lucky we're not in 2011 aka "The Golden Age of the Trips". We would fucking dox you kid; that's right, me, Hampus, and Quentin you find your facebook and fucking BELITTLE you. Now stop the impersonation okay?!

[Anonymous No.6970650]

>>6969683
simple and fun
10/10

[Anonymous No.6970672]

>>6970377
There is no empirical evidence as that is necessarily impossible. There are metaphysical demonstrations.

[Anonymous No.6970693]

>>6970438
>Hampus
I hope that fucker died

[Anonymous No.6970775]

>2015
>Believing in the divine
You have no excuse for this level of retardation
>inb4 fedora
This meme is pathetic.

[Anonymous No.6970842]

>>6969788
>all those nubile young women literally being paraded down the street in gymnastic flourishes, those of the most innocuous yet positively sexual motions a woman can perform
what a time to be alive

[Anonymous No.6971335]

[Anonymous No.6971353]

>>6969778
The irony is that even if you were reminded every day that you were going to die one day, you still wouldn't believe it was true.

[Anonymous No.6971359]

I can't wait for summer to end and the militant fedoras to go back to school.

[Anonymous No.6971365]

>>6971359
Don't hold your breath.

[Anonymous No.6971441]

>>6971335
if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him - Bakunin
Fucking thief.

[Anonymous No.6973766]

>>6969985
Morality is not a ideology that comes in different shades, so to speak. There is that which is moral and that which is immoral. Circumstances change. Conditions for behavior change. What is moral however does not.

[Anonymous No.6973933]

>>6973766
So morality has the equivalent ontological status to that of a chair? How the fuck do people think of this shit. Morality is predicated onto things, and therefore, is formulated from the basis of a subject. If it is espoused on the basis of a subject, it is co-terminus with the structure of subject's cognition. Therefore, morality is co-terminus with the subject, and therefore, the subject's conditions. In this way, morality is based upon particular conditions. Even Kantian de-ontological ethics, a universal and necessary principled ethics, i.e. categorical imperative, only applies within the purview of a human with cognitive functions, e.g. reason.

[Anonymous No.6974018]

>>6969659
Yes, religious people have hang-ups that can be exploited. People in power like to see that. Vulnerability makes them feel at ease.

[Anonymous No.6974026]

The #1 motivator of this argument is the fear of hell. If that didn't exist not many people would be interested in debating the existence of God.

[Anonymous No.6974032]

>>6974026
no

[Anonymous No.6974040]

>>6974032
Do you have an argument?

[Anonymous No.6974046]

>>6974040
yes : the fact that it is very hard to project oneself mentally in a great period of time, let alone past one's own death. this leads to no self-empathy and no fear of hell unless heavily spammed (eg by preachers or a community.)

this means that nowadays the religious man does not fear god but rather loves him, seizing religions as a means of transcendance and access to absolute greatness rather than a cop-out for an eternal suffering he cannot even conceptualize

[Anonymous No.6974061]

>>6969672
>implying God is a Personality being.

Seriously though, I believe that being an atheist only has value when aesthetic and axiologic considerations on culture are still of importance for the individual (i.e. not being le edgy nihilist).

[Anonymous No.6974063]

>>6974026
I think it's more Oedipal than that

[Anonymous No.6974066]

>>6974046
I'm an atheist and upon analysing my occasional episodes of existential dread I realized it rests upon a fear of hell. I conceptualize a fear of hell. Or do you mean religious people do not?

[Anonymous No.6974081]

>>6974066
What do you think of Deism then?

[Anonymous No.6974087]

>>6974066
I'm not sure if I understood you, would you mind rephrasing ?

[Anonymous No.6974119]

>>6974081
It's not like that gets you a ticket into heaven.

>>6974087
You say religious people nowadays do not actually conceptualize eternal torment. But as an atheist I do and it's the source of occasional existential dread. Would this make sense based on my position as an atheist? You make it out as if only religious people do not conceptualize hell.

[Anonymous No.6974166]

>>6974066
No, the opposite is true. For Yahwists it is not the fear of hell but the desire for the pleasures of heaven. Abrahamic religions are little more than hedonism at their core.

[Anonymous No.6974175]

>>6974119
Well, first of all, and though I have no reason to doubt what you say, I still think it's very difficult for you to conceptualize Hell, for various reasons :

- Hell has an unclear description in scriptures, the collective mind and in culture all combined, thus always leading to a personal interpretation of what it would be. Those anguish seem very intimate and personal, and I would not categorize them as an abstraction of eternal suffering.

- The concept of eternity is beyond the abilities of the human mind to have a clear idea, rational idea of (See what Descartes wrote on that and particularily about the indefinite nature of God.) So then it would be the same for eternal suffering.

- Pain, be it emotional or physical, is fleeting and temporary by nature (because of either adaptation or healing), so it makes it even extra difficult to conceptualize.


When you say you suffer occasional existential dread from conceptualizing Hell, I assume you mean that it happens to you, in vulnerable moments (such as late at night of after heavy stress), to imagine and picture yourself in such a state. But I would insist on those kind of apparitions behind punctual and the product of consequences. It's completely different from a constant reminder of the the Damocles sword.

I don't think it's impossible for an atheist to manipulate the idea of Hell, but I think it's as impossible for a deist or an atheist to clearly conceptualize it, and from this starting point it's impossible for this idea to be a proeminent future of their belief, except when used as a tool or a weapon, a threat against others.

I'd wager you are precisely an atheist because of your existential dread.
This reasoning applies to Heaven as well although somewhat differently.

[Anonymous No.6974180]

>>6974166
>the fear of hell
As a former Catholic that's certainly what motivated me. And you can't deny that especially in the case of followers of the fire and brimstone preachers of Puritanism.

[Anonymous No.6974187]

>>6974180
The fact that you are now atheist is proof that the fear of hell is ineffective and a weak menace.

[Anonymous No.6974188]

>>6974180
And what exactly made you leave?

[Anonymous No.6974194]

>>6974175
Well, of course my conception of hell cannot be perfect or accurate. But you understand.

[Anonymous No.6974199]

>>6974194
yeah ofc just sharing my personal point of view

[Anonymous No.6974224]

>>6974188
It was not a dramatic departure. I was actually listening to a priest talking and it dawned on me that I had no evidence for God's existence.

[Anonymous No.6974240]

>>6974224
There is no evidence for a lot of things that you manipulate daily

[Anonymous No.6974256]

>>6974240
It would help if you were more specific on what you mean by "things that you manipulate daily". But I am not going to approach a claim as fantastic and consequential as the existence of God with the same thoroughness I would to the claim that my bookshelf exists.

[Anonymous No.6974288]

>>6974256
It was more of a reference to the constant use of faith we do in every lives in things way more crucial in vital that a contingent belief in god.