/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6959078]

I'm starting to fall for fascism. Are there any good arguments or books against it?

[Anonymous No.6959082]

Mussolini was a shitty meme that blew his load before he even put down his pants. Here.

[Anonymous No.6959086]

>>6959078

Not really... the best argument against fascism is having to live through it.

Though he is best known as an anti-Communist, you might find Koestler instructive if you haven't read him already.

[Anonymous No.6959090]

>>6959082
T
R
A
I
N
S

[Anonymous No.6959092]

well there's the "no matter how many words you say, if you support fascism you will never be taken seriously by anyone" argument

[Anonymous No.6959093]

>>6959086
>these pretentious retards who think they're smart

Where do they come from? Why were you parents so shitty?

[Anonymous No.6959097]

>>6959093

Where's your recommendation for the OP?

[Anonymous No.6959098]

>>6959086
>having to live through it.
Conditions were pretty good for the depression.

[Anonymous No.6959110]

>>6959097
I was always deeply fascinated with fascism (you can call me an edgelord if you want) and I believe it has some valid points and that some ethnicities and races are indeed inferior to others and they're mostly burden to the world, see: Russians, niggers etc., but I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan of it.

[Anonymous No.6959125]

>>6959086
My great grandmother apparently loved it
She got new shoes she said

[Anonymous No.6959127]

>>6959078
What is it about fascism that draws you in OP?

[Anonymous No.6959129]

>>6959110
fascism =/= racism

[Anonymous No.6959130]

>>6959078
nah

[Anonymous No.6959136]

>>6959110
Those things aren't inherent to fascism.

>>6959092
Pound was a fascist and he was taken seriously by many many people, including the best writers of the 20th century.

[Anonymous No.6959153]

None. Because fascism appeals, at best, to the semi-literate.

>>6959110
Russians?

You mean the first people in space, of all people?

[Anonymous No.6959161]

>>6959110
>russians
Oh fuck off

[Anonymous No.6959178]

>>6959136
Exclusions can be made for people who were already the greatest poet of an entire movement before supporting fascism, (even though most of the world still wrote him off as literally insane). Anything short of that and not even your work and thought not related to fascism will be taken seriously.

[Anonymous No.6959182]

Every history book. Anon, are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.6959203]

>>6959178
>greatest poet of an entire movement
No, sorry

[Anonymous No.6959230]

>>6959182
What's wrong with Mussolini's facism?

[Anonymous No.6959241]

>>6959161
Oh fuck off edgelord

back to /commie out of touch dumb Westerners/ general

[Anonymous No.6959243]

>>6959241
>HURR RUSSIANS HAVENT CONTRIBUTED ANYTHING XDD
And I'm the edgelord.

[Anonymous No.6959255]

>>6959243
>b-b-but muh Dostoyevsky

Yes you are. Now fuck off. You probably don't even know the scope of the atrocities they did, you're so brainwashed and so focused on HURR LE NAZIS ARE THE WORST XDDDDDD just like your entire shitty feeble civilization. Uncle Joe would be proud.

[Anonymous No.6959268]

>>6959255
>scope of the atrocities they did
What? Nigger, stop this memeing shit, fuck I used to frequent /pol/ and know this shit is stupid as fuck.
>pulling nazi-cution out of nowhere
Goddamn it.

If you want to hate on someone, at least go the easy and undeniable route: niggers.

[Anonymous No.6959270]

>>6959255
>muh Germany was a good boy, he din do nuffin!

[Anonymous No.6959285]

>>6959078
Read Bataille's The Psychological Structure of Fascism.

[Anonymous No.6959287]

Reich's the Mass Psychology of Fascism is good.

[Anonymous No.6959306]

Mussolini>>>>>>>>>Hitler
I personally want to destroy all reactionaries (and Leninists too, so I'm not a commie), but at least choose the right one.

[Anonymous No.6959308]

>>6959287
Seconded. Required reading really.

[Anonymous No.6959428]

>>6959125
please elaborate

[Anonymous No.6959458]

>>6959078
If you read some good history books about the period you will see that Mussoloni and his fascism had little to do with the idealised notions of it.

[Anonymous No.6959480]

>>6959078
Yeah pretty much everything intelligent ever written? Why don't you tell us WHY you are falling for fascism if you want to actually understand the case against it. It seems to me you would have to be plainly dumb and antagonistic to have that thought in your head at all so prove me wrong.

[Anonymous No.6959492]

>>6959078
Read some history, in particular stuff about Mussolini. Fascism might sound good in theory but in practice it leads to your country being run by thugs. And that's what Mussolini was, a cultured and somewhat enlightened thug, but still at his core a thug to the end.

There were better sounding fascists around in Italy, in particular Italo Balbo sounded like a pretty decent man, but he wasn't running the country.

Mussolini wasn't much of a leader, his only real accomplishment was keeping communism down using mobs of hooligans armed with sticks and after he saw how strong Hitler made Germany he became a giant prussiaboo and started acting like a Roman Emperor, thinking he could conquer the entire Mediterranean with an army wearing paper boots.

I think I've gone off track now so I'll get to the point. OP, do you want your country run by thugs? Because if you get a fascist government that's what you could get.

[Anonymous No.6959505]

>>6959492
>Read some history, in particular stuff about Mussolini. Fascism might sound good in theory but in practice it leads to your country being run by thugs. And that's what Mussolini was, a cultured and somewhat enlightened thug, but still at his core a thug to the end.

This. In theory, Fascism ends up promoting meritocratic-aristocracy, but we all know how such systems work in practice. And if we look at its Nietzschean motivations -- that is, the production of Great Men -- this essentially means it's a failure. Sure, you got some dope artists like Riefenstahl, but such people existed in spite of the system, not because of it, and it's doubtful a Napoleon or Caesar would have flourished and risen up in Fascism.

Now if your attraction to Fascism is on populist grounds, not the flourishing of Great Men, then just topkek.

[Anonymous No.6959510]

>>6959092
>Communist regimes murdered, tortured and starved more than 100 million people during the 20th century.
>Still taken seriously, still seriously discussed and explored by intellectuals and academics in universities, still socially acceptable to publicly identify as a Communist.

I've changed many people's minds on Fascism simply by taking things very slowly and not pushing them too hard too quickly.

[Anonymous No.6959511]

>>6959078
Julius Evola published two books critiquing Fascism and National Socialism from the perspective of a far-right radical Traditionalist. I highly recommend reading them (Fascism Viewed from the Right & Notes on the Third Reich).

[Anonymous No.6959512]

>>6959082
kek

[Anonymous No.6959520]

>>6959505
>and it's doubtful a Napoleon or Caesar would have flourished and risen up in Fascism.
Have you not heard of Adolf Hitler?

[Anonymous No.6959535]

>>6959520
>>6959520
Impressive as Hitler's rise was, he was not aristocratic.

http://mitrailleuse.net/2015/07/08/excerpts-from-diary-of-a-man-in-despair/

>No, I do not believe in his being a Borgia type. I believe that in this case the offal-compounded, repressed drives of a deeply miscarried human being were combined with a whim of history, which allowed him, as Cleon was once allowed in Athens, to play for a time with the levers of its gigantic machinery. I believe that all of this coincided with a fevered hour of this people. I believe that this poor devil, sprung out of a Strindbergian excremental Hell, like that other time’s Bockelson, coincided in time with the bursting of an abscess by a nation, and came as the embodiment of all the dark and generally well-curbed desires of the masses—like his Münster predecessor, a character out of a German ghost story!

[Anonymous No.6959569]

>>6959510
Stalin did nothing wrong.

[Anonymous No.6959578]

>>6959535
Man, this guy's a cunt. I can kind of see why you'd want to gas people if these were your acquaintances. This guy is gassable.

[Anonymous No.6959589]

>>6959110
/pol/ please suicide

[Anonymous No.6959643]

>>6959510
well start changing minds here already, start with me.

[Anonymous No.6959724]

Fascism is just irrational traditionalism with a corporatist organization, not a lot to be fascinated about.

[Anonymous No.6959766]

>>6959505
That is kinda why it is hilarious that the Nazis could build off of Neetski's theories.

For example take the ubermensch, an idea that relies on an existing social order. To be an ubermensch within the Neetski Paradigm is to be wholly anti-governmental, and basically be a man independent. Nazism requires conformity on a level which completely stands against an ubermensch, as "a community of ubermensch" is a paradox.

[Anonymous No.6959793]

>>6959510
>Communist regimes murdered
Enemies in war? Or do you mean Stalin's purges? Stalin was paranoid. We all admit this. Khmer Rouge, Vietcong, et cetera were special cases.
>tortured
They weren't just torturing people for fun like the Nazis.
>starved
It's not like there was food and the proletariat weren't getting it because Mao, Stalin, et al were evil. This is due to Western intervention and war.

[Anonymous No.6959816]

>>6959535
The Freddy who wrote the diary was a true blue Prussian, so off course Hitler wasn't a real gentleman to him, and even worse, he's a Bavarian. Napoleon wasn't an aristocrat either, and throughout History the people like Napoleon who've been the real movers and shakers in the last 500 years aren't from ruling class, i.e. Martin Luther, etc.

[Prince DEVITT !!H88HZm8bUlF No.6959821]

>>6959078
>Are there any good arguments against it?
common sense

[Anonymous No.6959868]

>>6959766
'Anti-governmental' is a bit too far I think, or maybe just misleading. More accurate is the Neetcheean-hero overcomes government to use it for his own Will and as a canvas for his art.

But yes, Nazism is far too populist, agreed. Italian Fascism is much closer to a Neetcheean political system in modernity.

>>6959816
I didn't mean aristocratic in the title sense, but as a synonym for noble as Nietzsche uses it. And with that I stand by Hitler being a brute.

[Anonymous No.6959903]

>>6959793
Do you have a whole sheep in your eyes?
Not just Stalin, the entire USSR was based on murder from the Romanovs to NKVD, crushing the Hungarian uprising, the gulags in the 1970s, political prisoners in the 80s, attempting to destroy the solidarity movement in Poland, and that's the Eastern block alone. Think about all the people murdered by the Italian red brigades, the shining path in Peru and other communist terrorist groups.

Does it matter if you're torturing someone so they'll betray their friends to the NKVD firing squads or because they're jewish? Both is equally evil and sickening.

And your last point is the most stupid and disgusting. Denying that Stalin killed five million Cossacks and Ukrainians through a forced famine is like denying the Holocaust. You're lying and hiding the suffering they went through just so you can promote your sick politics.

[Anonymous No.6959911]

>>6959078
Fascisms fucking cool, don't listen to the dumb lefties ITT OP

[Anonymous No.6960002]

How can you fall for something like Fascism ? It's a populist movement. It's basically democracy with the safety removed, a dictatorship of the masses over the minorities and elites. The majority of a people are idiots, no exceptions. As Nietzsche said, a herd without a shepherd. I really hope you aren't that stupid, but maybe you're just young and obviously this kind of thing is the vogue.

[Anonymous No.6960048]

L'Anti-Œdipe

[Anonymous No.6960078]

>>6959793
>communist leaders run their country into the ground through shitty agricultural policy

'I-it's the w-westerners fault with their wars and sanctions.'

At least admit they were incompetent even if you don't think they were evil.

[Anonymous No.6960119]

>>6959255
You know, just one of the greatest superpowers on the planet since the 50's

[Anonymous No.6960254]

Every fascism is just a failed revolution.
A political dispositive to preserve capitalist structures in the presence real menace to them.
Nothing more than a coup de théâtre.

[Anonymous No.6960340]

>>6959868
>'Anti-governmental' is a bit too far I think, or maybe just misleading.
I wouldn't say it's too far at all. Nietzsche wrote pretty strongly about this:

"A state, is called the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly lieth it also; and this lie creepeth from its mouth: “I, the state, am the people.”

It is a lie! Creators were they who created peoples, and hung a faith and a love over them: thus they served life.

Destroyers, are they who lay snares for many, and call it the state: they hang a sword and a hundred cravings over them.

Where there is still a people, there the state is not understood, but hated as the evil eye, and as sin against laws and customs...

Do go out of the way of the bad odour! Withdraw from the steam of these human sacrifices!...

There, where the state ceaseth—there only commenceth the man who is not superfluous: there commenceth the song of the necessary ones, the single and irreplaceable melody.

There, where the state ceaseth—pray look thither, my brethren! Do ye not see it, the rainbow and the bridges of the Superman?"

[Anonymous No.6960355]

>>6959110
>I agree with the parts of 'facism' that are racist
m8 facism isn't racist. You aren't a facist, you're a fucking nazi.
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.6960368]

>>6960355
German national socialists weren't racist though.

[Anonymous No.6960371]

>>6959078
Discourses on Livy

by Machiavelli

[Anonymous No.6960377]

>>6959078
1984's world has elements of facism as well as communism. (they're close to the same thing in practice) Do you want to spend your life in subservience to the party, Anon?

[Anonymous No.6960385]

>>6960368
Lol wut. /pol/tard detected.
http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007679

[Anonymous No.6960389]

>>6960385
Hardly racist compared to America at the time.

[Anonymous No.6960394]

>>6960377
>they're close to the same thing in practice

[Anonymous No.6960395]

My family came to Brazil because Mussolini took their lands.

He was a thief. A disgusting, disgraceful thief.

[Anonymous No.6960412]

>>6959903
>the gulags in the 1970s

[Anonymous No.6960414]

>>6960389
How is that relevant? The entire ideology was based around the racist concept of Germans being a master race and all other races being inferior? You're just deflecting because like all /pol/tards, you want to try and justify the single most repugnant ideology of all time. There is no acceptable defense of a regime that, in the name of racial purity, systematically killed 12 million 'inferior' people and started the most destructive war in human history.

[Anonymous No.6960421]

>>6960394
They are. National control of industries, one party systems, secret police, forced labor camps, invasions of other countries on flimsy pretexts.

[Anonymous No.6960432]

>>6959078
The Doctrine of Fascim's first part is (in my opinion) the only groundwork you need to understand and make your own opinion of it. The second part of that essay is pure rethoric made by Mussolini, and it's basically worthless.

Read the first part, and you should be good to go for loving or hating. It's the (in my opinion) only valid document about fascism as an ideology, that should be your basis for judgment.

[Anonymous No.6960434]

Salazar was a fascist, but still a corporatist and anti-racism.

[Anonymous No.6960437]

>>6960394
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/28/communism-and-fascism-the-reason-they-are-so-similar.html

[Anonymous No.6960440]

>>6960414
I don't go on /pol/. Not every person you talk to on 4chan is the flavor of the month boogeyman.

The rest of your comment may as well be read from a script. I've heard it a million times before. Not worth my time.

[Anonymous No.6960444]

count cianos diary shows you how rotten it was

[Anonymous No.6960446]

>>6960440
Well if you don't go on /pol/, you probably should, because there you can find like-minded retards to coddle you and reinforce your foolish nazi beliefs. If you really aren't open to even discussing nazism, then you're already too far gone.

[Anonymous No.6960456]

>>6960421
>National control of industries

[Anonymous No.6960458]

>>6960437

[Anonymous No.6960466]

>>6959078
>Are there any good arguments or books against it?
Julius Evola frequently wrote against fascism, most notably in Fascism Viewed from the Right. He alleged that fascism is at its heart as much of a progressive movement as communism or democratic socialism, and merely wears the regalia of tradition while adhering to few of its underlying principles.

Basically, you're falling for sexy uniforms and menacing architecture, and being blinded to the reality that it's just another version of the modern bureaucratic state.

[Anonymous No.6960487]

>>6959086
>the best argument against fascism is having to live through it.
You should talk to some old Italian people, there's a lot of love for him still.

[Anonymous No.6960493]

>>6960466
>and being blinded to the reality that it's just another version of the modern bureaucratic state.
But it has the sexy uniforms and menacing architecture at least, instead of "gay"/fag pride parades.

[Anonymous No.6960528]

>>6960493
>sexy uniforms instead of gay parades

[Anonymous No.6960539]

>>6959086
If you are a political maybe, my wife is very close to a family in Spain who still have a 3x4 foot painting of Franco being led by Jesus in their front parlor.

[Anonymous No.6960551]

>>6960377
>1984
>communism is similar to fascism
>not being able to think outside of the liberal-democratic paradigm

Communism is founded on equality, fascism is founded on hierarchy. Communism puts the economic before the political, fascism puts the political before the economic.

[Anonymous No.6960565]

>>6960002
this, tbh

[Anonymous No.6960573]

>>6960539
>>6960487
>>6959098

Fascism is alright... as long as you know when to keep your mouth shut.

[Anonymous No.6960599]

>>6960437

jesus fucking christ

I can see why people would 'fall' for ideologies now based on reading wikipedia articles

I can guarantee that <1% of 'Communists' on college campuses have read Das Kapital, and <1% of 'fascists' know about The Doctrine of Fascism

[Anonymous No.6960608]

>>6960599
The same goes for religious people and their respective ideologies tbh. Most cunts are just horribly uninformed about everything.

[Anonymous No.6960610]

>>6959078
>I'm starting to fall for fascism.
Yuck

[Anonymous No.6960630]

>>6960599
That article is just memes m8.

It wouldn't convince any fascist or communist anything because of the way it blatantly misrepresents both viewpoints.

Also, the three volumes of Capital are around 2600 pages of economic theory. It's the place to learn about Marxist econ, but not if you want to understand the theoretical framework.

[Anonymous No.6960639]

>>6959255

>a race is inferior for the atrocities they have commit

you know so so little

[Anonymous No.6960645]

>>6960002

Fascism sucks but sometimes dictators can fix up a country tbh

[Anonymous No.6960653]

>>6959230
The trains didn't run on time

[Anonymous No.6960662]

>>6960444
Count Ciano was real human bean as fuck. His story is the kind of thing Shakespeare would probably write about if he were around now.

He was married to Mussolini's daughter but knew Mussolini was bad for the country. It all turned out very unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.6960664]

>>6960002
You're confusing Fascism with Communism m8.

One of the main features of Fascism is its counterposing of elitism and populism. Fascists are populist elitists who see themselves as aristocrats who rebel against the herd of the masses. The Communist idolizes the masses in revolt, while the fascists idolize the men who put the revolt down. The police officer, in his suppression of a riot becomes a knight who 'rebels' against the revolting common masses. This is a fundamental feature of Fascist ideology that Communism does not share. Go to /pol/ and ask them about Ferguson if you don't believe me.

[Anonymous No.6960669]

>>6960539
How was Spanish fascism in comparison to Germany and Italy? It sounds more like they just a military government led by Franco that happened to resemble fascism.

Since they stayed neutral through WW2 and no word of major atrocities got out I imagine Franco wasn't too bad a ruler, as far as dictators go. Any Spanish poster's want to weigh in here?

[Anonymous No.6960705]

>>6959178
That's only because of the liberal/state capitalist ideology we live under, not because of fascism.
>Academia
>Anything but a cult that exists to indoctrinate the public and propagate the state's current favorite material theology

[Anonymous No.6960708]

>>6959268
>>6959270
>B-but the Nazis also did bad things!
>Gulags are justified as long as they're full of class criminals!
>Stalin was a good boy! He didn't do nuffin!

[Anonymous No.6960717]

>>6960705
Have you ever even been to a university?

Academics criticise the government all the time.

[Anonymous No.6960725]

>OP starts a thinly disguised attempt at /pol/ baiting
>/lit/ jumps on it
>lefty /pol/ and righty /pol/ piss into each others faces
>/lit/ is for the discussion of literature?
>mods don't delete, mods don't ban

this is why /lit/ turned to shit

[Anonymous No.6960732]

>>6960705
You're deluding yourself if you think isolated intellectuals and their dozen or so followers are determining the hegemonic ideology more so than the structure of political and civil society.

The reason why /pol/ think "cultural marxist" sjws control the media is because: they harass some faggot online and when the media responds they don't side with the literal fascists, and because their mindset is dependant upon bullshit tumblr/twitter/imageboard internet politics shitflinging.

[Anonymous No.6960734]

>>6960725
I'd say that most of our threads on actual books are just as bad as this one if not worse.

Nothing but the latest hate trend (Felicia Day) and the same arguments over philosophy. I don't understand the philosophy discussions, they're fucking everywhere.

[Anonymous No.6960743]

>>6960734
It's because most people that come to this board stay for the philosophy discussions. Shit, that's why I'm here.

I don't think there's any other place on the internet where you can shitpost about philosophy like /lit/.

[Anonymous No.6960757]

Read "Brazil under Vargas" by Luhmman

[Anonymous No.6960770]

>>6959086
> Koestler
> Anti-communist
> Lifelong Marxist

[Anonymous No.6960786]

>>6960757
Brazilian here, tell me a bit about this book. Vargas is usually regarded as a good "president" here.

[Anonymous No.6960802]

>>6960770
> Koestler
> Lifelong Marxist
lel

[Anonymous No.6960993]

>>6960551
Well, if national socialism was fascism(and perhaps it wasn't) i don't think Hitler put "the political" before the economical seeing as he nationalized the private banks and reigned in international finance. He even said something like that if they were to ignore the economic structure it would amount to nothing.

As always it seems that one should read books not boards.

[Anonymous No.6961036]

>>6959793
>Western intervention caused the famines in the soviet/the concentration camps!
>Genocide was just special cases, doesn't say anything about the political ideas!
>It's never been tried "properly!"
Commies and Nazis literally use the same arguments to defend their totalitarian stance, it's amusing.

[Anonymous No.6961047]

>Consuming prepackaged ideology

It's like a Deep Fried Mars Bar for your soul.

[Anonymous No.6961056]

>>6960993
there were no bank nationalisations in nazi-germany. there were even bank reprivatizations together with other sectors, as shown in this article:
>>6960456

bank ownership changed during "arisierung", so that jews couldnt own shares in a private bank anymore.
others remained completely untouched like Bankhaus J.H. Stein, its key person:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Baron_von_Schr%C3%B6der

>He even said something like that if they were to ignore the economic structure it would amount to nothing.
he could say everything and its opposite depending on context.

[Anonymous No.6961062]

>>6961047
as opposed to unpackaged ideology? try speaking in coherent sentences

[Anonymous No.6961067]

There aren't many books on fascism from a fascist perspective, partly due to how short lived fascism was compared to other systems (such as Communism).

Fascism is also a working-class movement parading as a high-culture one, in contrast to Communism which is an intellectual movement parading as a working class one.

I actually enjoyed Julius Evola's "Fascism From the Right"; it's an interesting analysis of Fascism and why it didn't work, and he's not as crazy there as in his other works.

I don't know if it's available in English, but Göran Hägg's "Mussolini. En studie i makt" is pretty good as a history book. Surprisingly objective from a Swedish historian.

Also check out Gabriele D'Annunzio's "proto-fascist" regime in Fiume.

[Anonymous No.6961089]

>>6961067
>Fascism is also a working-class movement parading as a high-culture one, in contrast to Communism which is an intellectual movement parading as a working class one.

Fascisms is more like petty-bourgeois pseudo-aristocrats trying to convince workers that they too are petty-bourgeois pseudo-aristocrats. Communists are like (mostly "middle class") intellectuals who attach themselves to a radical labour movement and delude themselves into thinking that they too are workers.

same difference tbh

[Anonymous No.6961094]

>>6960669
Franco took over after José Antonio Primo de Rivera died, co-opted much of Falangist symbolism but essentially neutered the movement towards his own ends.

A touch of genius, really. They retained the support of the nationalist working class that supported Franco's movement while also assuring the Royalist and Carlist factions that Spain would not become a Fascist state.

[Anonymous No.6961137]

Some nice recs in here, thanks.

Anyone know any good books against communism?

[Anonymous No.6961140]

>>6961137
yes. it's called common sense and maturity

[Anonymous No.6961141]

>>6961137
Against the theory, or one of those "x people died, therefore it's evil" deals?

[Anonymous No.6961146]

>>6961141
Theory.

[Anonymous No.6961153]

>>6961137
Can't be done, communism is inevitable. Capitalism is incompatible with increasing automatisation.

[Anonymous No.6961164]

>>6961146
Bohm-Bawerk, Popper, and Hayek.

They're dismissed by Communists because their critiques are half-assed, but they're the best you get. You're better off going to read about the history of Communism then going against Marxists in their own game.

see such enlightened critiques such as this: >>6961140
And try to portraying all Marxists as being dumbfucks like this >>6961153

[Anonymous No.6961190]

>>6961153
>communism is inevitable.
No it isn't.

>Capitalism is incompatible with increasing automatisation.
No it isn't.

>>6961137
Basically any introductory economics textbook or just regular book.

>>6960669
From what I've seen he's not reviled like Hitler is by Germans and is generally perceived well. He wanted to setup a Catholic Confessional State by essentially drawing the Clergy into the government and using them to police morality and "petty" crimes. The clergy didn't agree with this as the Church was still trying to go back to the days of old when the Pope was the king of morality and could slap anyone he chose with a "Kill this guy" order. The only people who really adamantly object to his reign are Communists who are still pissed that a few thousand Commies got killed in the Civil War and that he kicked out a bunch of Jewish bankers.

[Anonymous No.6961204]

>>6961164
>>6961190
Alright, thanks.

[Anonymous No.6961205]

>>6959505
stupid post

[Anonymous No.6961206]

>>6959078
The Nazis completely ruined fascism. There's no way to support it without everybody assuming you're a genocidal white supremacist.

Unless you ARE a genocidal white supremacist, I'd encourage you to look into "traditionalist authoritarianism".

[Anonymous No.6961208]

>>6959078
Read "As We Go Marching" by John T. Flynn

[Anonymous No.6961243]

>>6960664
this isn't true, you are misinterpreting the hitler "i am a revolutionary against the revolution" quote.

fascism =/= bootlicking

[Anonymous No.6961274]

Read some of the Antonio Gramsci's work.

[Anonymous No.6961288]

>>6961089
>saying bourgeois in 2015

[Anonymous No.6961295]

>>6961190
How isn't it?

[Anonymous No.6961328]

>>6961243
I didn't even know that quote existed.

Another example would be to just look at the way fascists approach Nietzsche.

>>6961288
It's difficult to pinpoint tbh. Petty-bourgeois and small entrepreneurs are synonymous, but 'bourgeois' is more evocative. It's fascinating to find a skinny and young petty-bourgeois fascist wearing a suit with gelled hair with their nose in the clouds with pseudo-aristocratic arrogance. We've all seen these types, and its so obscene (yet so fundamental to their functioning) to find these people associate themselves with vulgar nazi bonehead activists.

[Anonymous No.6961338]

>>6960770
He wrote an essay condemning the entire Communist party as a cult.

[Anonymous No.6961346]

>>6961288
>>6961328
reminder that bourgeouis just literally meant "city-dweller" before Marx fucked it up

[Anonymous No.6961359]

>>6961346
No, that would be 'burgher', 'bourgeois's cognate

[Anonymous No.6961379]

>>6959903
The famine was happening everywhere in Russia and it was caused by a natural disaster and kulaks burning their grain surplus.

The Ukranians should thank Stalin for ending famine IMO, but instead thy want to be arrogant banderites.

[Anonymous No.6961388]

>>6961379

[Anonymous No.6961404]

Historians would mostly agree Mussolini was pretty decent during WWI, although backstabbing Germany was a dick move. If Italy had term limits he might have retired to a comfortably high public esteem.

That's what most Italians from the day would tell you. Early Mussolini was nothing like later Mussolini.

[Anonymous No.6961425]

>>6960414
>muh 13 million

[Anonymous No.6961426]

>>6961140
>It's called my empirical self.

[Anonymous No.6961430]

>>6961425
>12 million
>13 million
u w0t m8

[Anonymous No.6961442]

>>6961388
then there's the matter of Stalin putting Sausages into mass production for the relief.

How hard is it to accept you've been bullshat?

[Anonymous No.6961443]

>>6961404
>ww1
>backstabbing germany
wut

[Anonymous No.6961446]

>>6961430
>muh 14 million

[Anonymous No.6961453]

>>6961404
Mussi didn't come around until the 20's m8

[Anonymous No.6961459]

>>6961442
Fraud, Famine, and Fascism isn't taken serously by anyone beyond paranoid stalinoids m8

[Anonymous No.6961469]

Because nationalism is a convenient fiction.

[Anonymous No.6961494]

>>6960717
So what? The government is only a part of the greater power structure that they support. Education is indoctrination as much as it is enlightenment.
>>6960732
I'm not claiming they control ideologies, I'm claiming they propagate them.

[Anonymous No.6961528]

>>6961459
That's actually from the Annals of Communism. But thanks for telling me about that book, I never heard of it before and I'll be sure to check it out.

[Anonymous No.6961749]

>>6961443

Italy was indeed allied to Austria and Germany prior to WWI.

>Having joined the Italian Army he saw service on the Isonzo before being wounded and returning home. Once back in Italy he resumed his journalistic activities, editing the Milan newspaper Il Popolo d'Italia. While out of the fighting personally he nonetheless remained firmly in favour of continued Italian participation in the war, and advocated suppression

His candidacy was based mostly on this record.

>>6961453

Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini was born in 1883.

[Anonymous No.6961758]

>>6961749

pic related

[Anonymous No.6961760]

>>6961328
Seems more like traditionalists, not really fascists.

[Anonymous No.6961791]

>>6959078
>Are there any good arguments or books against it?
Yes, a lot of them.

[Anonymous No.6961912]

>>6959110
>complains that other people are retarded and not brought up right
>doesn't even actually know the definition and inherencies of fascism

[Anonymous No.6961943]

>>6961056
>>He even said something like that if they were to ignore the economic structure it would amount to nothing.
>he could say everything and its opposite depending on context.
This is incredibly weak. Do you really think you are making an argument here? Non-withstanding that, here's a well sourced article that disproves you: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/13/hitler-and-the-banksters-the-abolition-of-interest-servitude/

Also i just finished mein kampf and if hitler suddenly decided to not go after international finance after all and not nationalize banks he would go against everything he wrote in that book.

[Anonymous No.6962060]

>>6961943
rofl, so you take mein kampf at face value and havent researched the actual historical actions at all?

>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/13/hitler-and-the-banksters-the-abolition-of-interest-servitude/
skimming this... it describes gottfried feder's main points and admits that he was sinecured in a neutral position after 1933. he was only useful to hitler as long as NSDAP was in opposition. hitler kicked the ladder away, like he did with röhm or strasser. goebbels had enough instinct to switch to hitler's faction early on.

the final part talks about hitler's increased authority over the german central bank in 1939, after a clash with hjalmar schacht. unless i have overlooked some detail, again, this has nothing to do with nationalization of banks.

[Anonymous No.6962080]

National Socialism > Fascism

[Anonymous No.6962171]

>>6962060
If you didn't skim it you would see that it confirms my view:
>A new Reichsbank law, which was promulgated on June 15, 1939, made the bank “UNCONDITIONALLY SUBORDINATED TO THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE STATE.”(17) Article 3 of the law decreed that the bank should be “directed and managed according to the instructions and under the supervision of the Fuehrer and Reich Chancellor.”(18) Hitler was now his own banker, but having departed from the fold of international swindlers and usurers he would, like Napoleon Bonaparte, suffer the same fate: an unnecessary war followed by the ruination of his people and country.
Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbank and
https://books.google.nl/books?id=lfHqBgAAQBAJ&pg=PT414&lpg=PT414&dq=reichbank+nationalization+hitler&source=bl&ots=HlJ6egv1rY&sig=iWhpIwwsd78hrAhlZPLppFsC2Z0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDcQ6AEwA2oVChMIovuFguChxwIVyj0UCh3X5wSS#v=onepage&q=reichbank%20nationalization%20hitler&f=false

If you are still not convinced. But really, how else do you think he turned the economy of germany around from absolute destitution to the strongest economy in europe in 5 years? Do you really believe the system in place today, where all money creation implies a loan from a private entity and interest attached to this loan is a good system?

[Anonymous No.6962206]

>>6962080
What does this mean?
>Nationalsocialism leads to fascism.
>Nationalscoialism implies fascism.
>Nationalsocialism is greater than fascism.

[Anonymous No.6962239]

>>6962171
authority over central bank doesnt mean that private banks are nationalized.

>how else do you think he turned the economy of germany around from absolute destitution to the strongest economy in europe in 5 years

the economic recovery was made possible with financial instruments like MEFO and ÖFFA bills of exchange. the method was keynesian in nature and had nothing to do with transformation of private banking itself. its inventor was schacht, not nazis. hitler made its introduction possible, thats his achievement. but it has nothing to do with propositions by gottfried feder or any revolutionary change of ownership.

[Anonymous No.6962276]

>>6962239
>authority over central bank doesnt mean that private banks are nationalized.
It does actually. If i subjugate you, who are in control? That's what nationalization means; that the nation is in control, not private interest(and in this case international private ownership). what do you think this text means: UNCONDITIONALLY SUBORDINATED TO THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE STATE

Anyway, if you had read this:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbank
you would have gotten it in nice simple language: The seizure and consolidation of power by the Nazis during the years of the Third Reich also greatly affected the Reichsbank. A 1937 law re-established the Reich government's control of the Reichsbank, and in 1939, the Reichsbank was renamed the Deutsche Reichsbank and placed under the direct control of Adolf Hitler, with Walther Funk as the last president of the Reichsbank, from 1939 to 1945.[2]

[Anonymous No.6962305]

>>6962276
Also from my other source:
>https://books.google.nl/books?id=lfHqBgAAQBAJ&pg=PT414&lpg=PT414&dq=reichbank+nationalization+hitler&source=bl&ots=HlJ6egv1rY&sig=iWhpIwwsd78hrAhlZPLppFsC2Z0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDcQ6AEwA2oVChMIovuFguChxwIVyj0UCh3X5wSS#v=onepage&q=reichbank%20nationalization%20hitler&f=false

"Hitler nationalized the Reichsbank in 1939 and the postwar successor, the Bundesbank, was also publicly owned"

Are you going to give up soon?

[Anonymous No.6962315]

>>6962276
>It does actually.
nope. i doubt you even understand the concept of a central bank at this point.

[Anonymous No.6962371]

>>6962315
And do you think the author of this book: "Princes of the Yen: Japan's Central Bankers and the Transformation of the Economy" doesn't know what a central bank is either? Because that is the book i saxed that quote from. lol son, just give up.

[Anonymous No.6962435]

>>6960539
Might want to consider throwing your wife's family off a cliff tbh

[Anonymous No.6962450]

The problem with fascism at the end of the day, as with any absolutist system, is that the leader will never really be all that good as you want him to be. It's gonna be a mixture of good decisitions with dumb ones, usually the later outweighting the former. Yes, you can list all the ones you like and imply that it's much more than any government would had given you but you're just ignoring all the stupid shit and assuming that having a good period would mean that it will last. Nothing good lasts, you should know this as 4channers. A system that last too long is always for the worst.