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/lit/ - Literature

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6928566 No.6928566 [Reply] [Original]

Infinite Jest discussion thread. Serious discussion, not serious memeing. Stay away if you haven't finished it, spoilers welcome.

So, what was the point of Erdedy?

>> No.6928602

>>6928566
Just a nice, well-detailed background of one of Ennet House's residents. Is all.

Also it's good that it is where it is, gives a decent intro of what will the book be about

>> No.6928618

>>6928602
I really enjoyed his scene early on. Then he disappeared for a majority of the book, popped back up briefly and then only appeared in mentions. I guess I'm probably thinking too much into it. It just seems a lot of other characters like that have some sort of significance.

>> No.6928634

>>6928566
A lot of the characters don't really have a "point". Most of the ETAs and Ennet House residents don't do much.

>> No.6928655

>>6928634
That's true. His scene just left me thinking he would be more interesting than he was. At least his scene was useful for its portrayal of weed though, which I can identify with.

What was Poutrincourt's relation to the AFR? The AFR say they have someone on the inside at ETA but were they referring to Wayne or Poutrincourt?

>> No.6928670

>>6928655
Both, really
There was some very vivid detail like 700 pages in that was mentioned in IJ wiki even, can't remember now but it was there.

>> No.6928672

>>6928655
Probably Poutrincourt based on those endnotes about her interaction with Steeply.

>> No.6928704

>>6928670
From what I recall they said it'd be convenient if they also had a mole like John Wayne but they don't.

>> No.6928714

Favourite scenes?
>A fook in t'boom.

>> No.6928753

>>6928714
This
Wardine be cry
All the Randy Lenz scenes
Year of Glad
and a bunch of others

>> No.6928860

Currently on page 350, around the Eschaton description. Shit's cash. I'm wondering about Hal's Québécois prof having something to do with the Separatists but I guess that will be explained later. I want to know what those fuckers up in the Tuscon mountains are gonna do!
Other than that I'm thoroughly enjoying the book

>> No.6928937

>>6928566
Well his appearance in the second chapter kind of hints at the discussion of addiction in the novel and after that he is just another member of Ennet House

>> No.6929015

>>6928655
They have a student and staff member inside ETA. These are implied to be Wayne and Poutrincourt.

>> No.6929020

>LMAO I READ THE MEME NOW /LIT/ CAN ACCEPT ME INTO THEIR EXCLUSIVE MEME CIRCLE

You guys are fucking pathetic.

>> No.6929044

>>6928566
DFW self-insert.

>> No.6929049

The first chapter really confused me in relation to the rest of the book. I don't have a copy with me now unfortunately, but I remember in the first chapter someone (I thought it was Hal) trying to get into ETA, but when he tried to speak he freaked out or something and they wouldn't let him in. What was the deal with this?

>> No.6929060

>>6929049
ETA is like middle school + high school. Hal was applying for college.

>> No.6929064

>>6929049
Wait, so you haven't finished the book? I could explain it but it could spoil stuff for you. Hal isn't trying to get into ETA, the first chapter takes place after the rest of the book. Finish the book and then reread the first chapter and you'll get it.

>> No.6929099

>>6928714

The scene with J.O. and his father and the car, which was delivered solely through J.O. Sr.'s monologue. So many feels, and even the form is significant.

Actually all scenes with J.O., he was by far my favorite character.

I liked the Marathe and Steeply dialogue. Marathe's "accent" was clever.

>> No.6929102

>>6928714
relating calculus to tennis by saying that it's an infinity with defined boundaries was one of my favorite moments

also, all of the film studies party+the overdose

>> No.6929111

>>6928714
>>6929099

Oh, and also Year of Glad.

>I cannot make myself understood, now.

Still gives me chills, and I didn't even love the book as much as a lot of people.

>> No.6929121

>>6928566

What the fuck is Lyle? That always bugged me, it's just so fucking weird.

And please don't tell me
>dude it's a symbol you gotta work hard (sweat) to reach true understanding lmao

I sincerely hope DFW would not be that hamfisted.

>> No.6929137

>>6929121
I saw him as a parody of American eastern philosophy advocates, but also a good way to get more personal dialogues out of less important characters

I'm sure someone else has other ideas, though

>> No.6929161

>>6929137
Well he's a parody and a trope, but also a parody that seemingly works, so it's the principles of new sincerity being put on display really.

>> No.6929182

>>6929102

>the overdose

Which one?

>> No.6929186

>>6929182
PGOAT's

>>6929161
huh, I had never thought about it like that. makes sense.

>> No.6929189

Worth reading or just a really, really long meme?

>> No.6929194

>>6929189
whether it's worth reading is up to you but it is just a meme and DFW is a bad writer. he's just the "ideas guy" of the literary community. neat ideas with awful execution

>> No.6929206

Boat load of questions:

When did Pemulis get a chance to poison his opponent at the exhibition against the other school? It's heavily implied but I can't remember any moment where he possibly could have.

Did Pemulis poison John NR Wayne with DMZ?

What did Orin mean by 'Do it to Her" (I know the Orwell reference,) just don't know who he meant by her.

It's implied that Orin sent out the copies to harm all those who acted against JOI including the lovers of Avril, but where is it implied she banged anyone but JR and CT?

Did Pemulis get kicked out BECAUSE he found out about NR and Avril? Or was that his blackmail to stay in longer? Did that happen way before the eschaton incident anyhow?

>> No.6929208

>>6928566
I read a book once. It was a deeply troubling experience. All the words and thinking and trying to make sense and getting me to ask questions. And the sitting still required. No, not for me, thank you very much. There are enough reliable disappointments in life already, I don't need anymore from books.

>> No.6929213

>>6929189
it's really good. DFW's style is really obnoxious at first, but once you get a couple hundred pages in you kind of fall into his world and it starts invading your dreams.

>> No.6929220

>>6929189
It's one of my favourite novels of all time. It's definitely not everyone's cup of tea but there's definitely a lot to it aside from memehood.
See>>6929194
Even though he's a retard, he's right about about there being tons of good ideas. and
See >>6929213
For what the writing's like

Definitely worth it imo.

>> No.6929249

>>6929213

Felt the same, your kneejerk reaction wants to pass it off as pretentious as fuck all but after you get around 350-400 pages in you truly realize it's anything but.

I'm willing to bet most people who say they hate DFW's style barely made it past the ebonics chapter.

>> No.6929288

>>6929206
>When did Pemulis get a chance to poison his opponent at the exhibition

Not sure - but I very vaguely remember the process being described, maybe in a footnote?

>Did Pemulis poison John NR Wayne with DMZ?

Yes

>It's implied that Orin sent out the copies to harm all those who acted against JOI including the lovers of Avril, but where is it implied she banged anyone but JR and CT?

Throughout the book, but another specific instance is the medical attache from one of the opening chapters.

>Did Pemulis get kicked out BECAUSE he found out about NR and Avril? Or was that his blackmail to stay in longer? Did that happen way before the eschaton incident anyhow?

My understanding was he saw Wayne and Avril before Eschaton, then dosed Wayne after they'd gotten away with Eschaton, which lead to his expulsion.

>> No.6929315

>>6929249
I read the whole thing and my opinion is still that he's a bad writer with decent ideas.

>> No.6929323

>>6929189

Agree with these guys.

>>6929213
>>6929249

It took me a long time to get through the novel, and there were parts that I did not enjoy and characters I did not care about. The writing is generally brilliant throughout, but structurally, I think the novel had a lot of weaknesses.

But after all that, it is still an amazing novel. The scope of what DFW was attempting - even if he didn't succeed fully - is absolutely amazing. I find myself thinking about the novel a lot since I've finished it. And like I said, the prose is unbelievable in many places.

If you are serious about literature - and by that I mean, you don't just like books and reading, but you're interested in exploring the limits of what a novel can be - you should read it. You may not love it, but you will respect it.

As an aside, I'm now reading another fairly recent novel that was critically acclaimed. It's pretty good, the prose is beautiful, and I'm engaged, but on the other hand, it just seems boring. Once you start reading literature that experiments with form, it's hard to go back.

>> No.6929330

>>6928566
Erdedy is DFW. DT Max's biography gives all the inspiration for IJ's characters. For example, Gately is someone DFW roomed w/when he lived in a halfway house outside Boston. A fair amount of Gately is lifted from that dude's life.

Erdedy is the drug addicted DFW.

But point? There is no point. He's not Pinecone. There is no higher meaning to IJ.

>> No.6929335

>>6929206
>>6929288

>Did Pemulis poison John NR Wayne with DMZ?

No, that's wrong. Early in the novel, it is mentioned that Troeltsch (I think?) sometimes steals tenuate from Pemulis. When he steals it, he stores it in his seldane bottle, and replaces it with seldane. Wayne has a stuffy nose and asks to borrow the seldane, but he accidentally takes a tenuate. Simultaneously, Pemulis takes what he thinks is a tenuate before his match, but it's actually just seldane. His is why he can't feel the tenuate kicking in when he's in the locker room before his match.

>> No.6929354

>>6929137
He's an idea vector. Like pretty much everyone else. How else can you insert "What fire dies when you feed it?". Also, he's hilarious and memorable and licks people.

>> No.6929364

>>6929335
Yeah, duh. I thought this was clear. Why are ppl confused about this??

>> No.6929399

>>6929206
1: Off screen, or w/e. Like almost all the important shit.

2: No. What? He accidentally took the tenuate. Or w/e.

3: I thought JVD but idk. Shit got a little too POMO in that scene.

4: Like, all over, there's a point where there is discussion of spy tactics I believe.

5: It happened after & she took revenge. He used blackmail to get himself and Hal out of urine tests.

>> No.6929401

>>6929288
>>6929335

So why would Pemulis want/need to find out about Avril and NR?

If it was before the eschaton incident what did he need blackmail for?

And it obviously didn't work, still ended up getting his ass kicked out.

>> No.6929414

>>6929315
I have the opposite opinion. He be write good but, like Hal, has nothing to say. And like JOI, what he does say is nearly pointless or imitation—or something incredibly entertaining.

>> No.6929455

>>6929401

I think he knew about it before - Hal apparently had known for a while - but he purposefully walked in on them after the Eschaton incident. Then, something happened that made Avril decide she didn't care if he told Hal, but I don't know what it was. She decided she had the upper hand.

>> No.6929461

>>6929060
>>6929064
I finished the book but I think I glazed over the part at the end that explains why Hal is retarded now. I'll reread the first chapter. It's helpful to know he was applying to college though, that makes more sense.

>> No.6929556

>>6928634
John Wayne fucks Hals mom kek

>> No.6929584

>>6929461

>Hal is retarded

I don't think you read any of that right....

Hal isn't retarded, he narrates internally and communicates perfectly both what his feeling and his understanding of his inability to communicate outwardly

>> No.6929588

>>6929414
>has nothing to say
I thought he was saying that being smug and ironic doesn't make you win at life.

>> No.6929606

>>6929461
It's debatable what actually caused him to change but it slowly happens over the last like quarter of the book. I wouldn't say he's retarded, at the start he was functional, intelligent and social but didn't give much of his actual emotions, possibly why The Mad Stork refused to acknowledge anything he said, and such outwardly, possibly why The Mad Stork refused to acknowledge anything he said, and at the end(or start) he's able to express, and articulate in his point of view, this stuff but it comes out to others as pure emotion, none of the intelligence or functionality.

>> No.6930017

>>6929455
Well in one of Hal's last sections he mentions he knows Avril and John Wayne bang. Which, unfortunately, makes it make even less sense.

>> No.6930038

>>6929606
Yeah, I'm more into the idea that JOI's wraith put the DMZ on Hal's toothbrush (given the fact that the DMZ was missing from Pemulis' stash and the fact that toothbrushes had been drugged in the past) than other theories. I feel like the entertainment, Infinite Jest itself, and the DMZ would cause Hal to revert to his normal self, or so JOI had hoped. But he was only able to take the DMZ. This reversed the effects of that mold he ate at age four (which is questionable anyway since the only source is Orin who's a bit of a liar) but then stunted his ability to communicate. I like to think that DMZ + Infinite Jest V/IV would've made Hal normal.

>> No.6930054

Here's a question about the book that I had; near the end of the book, we see a man tell a story at AA about visiting his daughter and having rage issues.

What did that have to do with the rest of the book? The guys name was Mike, I almost thought it was future Pemulis telling a bullshit story (earlier on in the novel Hal says to Mario he can never tell if Pemulis is lying or not and that it's impossible to) but that doesn't really make much sense. But it's all I could think of.

>> No.6930076

>>6929461
>Hal is retarded
you suck at reading dude.

>> No.6930212

>>6930076
lol he does

>> No.6930373

>>6928566
>serious memeing
Laughed out loud.

>> No.6931094

>>6929099
What is significant about Marathe's accent?

>> No.6931110

When Hal has his contrived "moment of revelation" to the grief counselor that "SOMETHING SMELT GOOD", what the significance of this? I always thought it was him trying to distance himself from the fact that he actually felt this but couldn't even admit that to himself, but I've had friends disagree with me.

>> No.6931236

>>6929111
INTRICATE HISTORY
EXPERIENCES AND FEELINGS
;_;

>> No.6931549

>>6929020
What's the matter buddy?

>> No.6931889

>>6931110
I think it shows how dulled his actual emotions are becoming? I'm not sure, but I think the whole thing was to show that by the fact that he had to contrive something where a normal person would already have something.

>> No.6932032

Have more than 7 people on this Taiwanese stamp collecting board read the fucking book or what?

>> No.6932073

>>6932032
It's /lit/ dude, nobody here reads.

>> No.6932100
File: 144 KB, 827x517, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6932100

>>6932032
Sometimes I get a panicky feeling about that. Some of the things ppl say are frighteningly off-base.

At least some ppl own up and do the It's A Meme Dodge...

>> No.6932330

>>6932073
Oh yeah I forgot

>> No.6932361

>>6929121
Notice how he's levitating? Apparently that's a recurring element in Wallace's like shit, man.

>https://justindobbs.svbtle.com/levitation-in-the-stories-of-david-foster-wallace-1

>> No.6932965
File: 5 KB, 84x84, Circle.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6932965

>>6929121
Lyle is a wraith, like JOI later in the book. Lyle has mastered the zen state of wraithness and can remain still for extended times. Notice his sections are introduced by that round symbol, and not by a date. When he is described as levitating, that's not some meta whatever, he is really floating. His relationship with JOI is particularly important, since JOI has real problems with the mechanics of being dead.

>> No.6932978

>>6928566
Every IJ thread forever because too many vacuous cunts didn't get the book

http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ijend

>> No.6933023

did Hals friends killed by the assassins?

>> No.6933151

>>6932965
Holy shit...

>> No.6933256

>>6932965
I'm not seeing it.

>> No.6933304

>>6932965
You're rihht about everything(I read the book some time ago), but
>notice how his sections begin with that symbol
wat.

>> No.6933310

>>6933304
That's the part that makes no sense to me in his post.

>> No.6933355

>>6932978
>http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ijend
Pretty sure everyone has read that, there's still a lot more to talk about.

>> No.6934980

Here's a plothole: how did Orin know about the tape or its effect?

>> No.6935206
File: 569 KB, 641x397, kid rock david foster wallace.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6935206

DFW lives. "Kid Rock" can't hide forever.

>> No.6935236

>>6934980
That's actually a really good question and I don't have an answer.

>> No.6935275

>>6935206
DFW's way uglier. Both have weird noses tbh

>> No.6935919

Do we know who Avril fucked in the Volvo? Most people say "ORIN" was written in the steam, but is there definitive proof?

>> No.6936559

>>6935919
No, but it's heavily implied she used to fuck Orin. I think Bain basically says so in his letter (I think it's an endnote). Additionally she bangs John Wayne in Orin's football gear.

>> No.6938343

>>6933151
>>6933256
>>6933304
>>6933310
The circle symbol occurs throughout the book, but not uniformly. For example Year of Glad has it, first YDAU, pages 32 and 33, but first Trial Size Dove Bar page 37; and TENNIS AND THE FERAL PRODIGY section, for example, page 172, do not show it.

Obversely, other sections are introuced with the circle symbol, but nothing else, no header, and no date. As non-comprehensively: pages 127, 151, 240, 283.

The section that introduces Lyle, pg127, includes neon signs like GOD PROVIDES and TRANSCEND, as well as "he went way back with Dr. Incandenza" and "The guru lives off the sweat of others. Literally."

Combined with the meta-manifesto assertion that wraith JOI is narrating in a form of hyper-realism in which every figurant is given their own fully developed voice, despite the throughline narrative becoming hopelessly cluttered as a consequence, it is reasonable to assert the the circle symbol, a symbol of infinity, indicates the relative proximity of the infinite for that passage or section- - in other words, the circle symbol is a signature of wraith JOI's direct narratorial presence.

Which need not remove his Heisenbergian omniscience from all the non-circle-marked passages, it simply means that those lacking the circle are the relatively inconsequential background noise which results from a wraith being able to hear the internal mental voices of every person on Earth.

>> No.6938396

>>6938343

thank u

>> No.6938400

>>6938343
The non-circle marked sections also tend, not absolutely, but often, to be sections in which class clown-DFW works up a gag, or indulges in a very Tarantino-ian form of showing off. Hal's essay on Hawaii 5-0 versus Hill Street Blues comes to mind. And the Letter From Momma, which is cribbed directly from the old Charlie Weaver bit from the late 50s. All the correspondence in the book, come to think of it, is comprised mainly of gags. The letter from Orin's childhood buddy to Steeply, in which he becomes progressively unhinged and misspells her name in increasingly unlikely ways is also straight slapstick.

>> No.6938610

>>6938400
>The letter from Orin's childhood buddy to Steeply, in which he becomes progressively unhinged and misspells her name in increasingly unlikely ways
Is the most hilarious thing I've read in years, he executed it so much better than Nabokov

>> No.6939380

>>6938610
Don't remember this, what can I ctrl + f to find this in the pdf (ie do you remember any strings of words or a name)?

>> No.6939498

>>6939380
It's in the endnotes, try ctrl + f "Bain"

>> No.6939511

>>6939380
Probably "correspondence", "letter", "Baine"(unless I misspelled it), "Steeply", or even "Orin has always"
Wasn't it in a footnote like 800 pages in? Probably worth ctrl-fing then checking results in notes, I'd say, 280 to 315

>> No.6939515

>>6939498
>>6939511
>Baine
>e
Knew it.

>> No.6939843

>>6939498
>>6939511
thanks

>> No.6941449

>>6934980
Anyone got any ideas on this? It's a legitimately good point and I can't think of how he could've known. Joelle may have told him about what the film was supposed to be, but how would he have known what it would've done to those other than Hal (which we don't know if Hal ever saw it or if he did if it had James' intended effect).

>> No.6941601

>>6928704
John wayne was definitely an AFR mole, bro. That's why he was with Don Gately and Hal to dig up JOI's head when the AFR kidnapped them.

>> No.6941606

>>6929189
it's funny as fuck and heartbreakingly sad, it just requires you to think for a bit. people who pretend it's shit are lazy as fuck or can't deal with the prose which gets breathy and a bit meanderish sometimes.

>> No.6941613

>>6929330
>there is no higher meaning to IJ
no, of course not. it's not a statement on how our society is developing and what it's doing to our experience as humans at all. it's just a funny little story about a guy who likes to smoke weed and another guy who wants to be clean.
right.
also it has nothing to say about entertainment
or loneliness
or the debilitation of literature by television
no.

furthermore it's completely uninteresting, narratology-wise. dfw totally had no original ideas about the form and purpose of the novel.

no.

shut your fucking cockholster anon, for god's sake.

>> No.6941650

does anyone have a pdf copy of Elegant Complexity? please share

>> No.6943937

>>6941449
Note 160 gives a list of suspects, any of whom may be the source of the "leak" of the master: Avril, Disney Leith, and Mario. So as far as the /existence/ of a Master, he could have learned about it from any of them, though given Orin's generally sociopathic manipulation complex, Mario seems to be the best candidate, unless you subscribe to the incest theory, in which Avril and Orin were the ones having the tryst in the Volvo that JOI discovered when the name re-fogged on his way to make IJV with Joelle (note 160). In which case, Avril is how he found out it exists. The incest theory is my preferred mechanism, since it is strong enough of a taboo to add in the motives driving JOI to suicide, and forms a strong motive for Orin to kill Avril's lovers with IJV. Since Leith is an instructor at ETA and Orin attended, he is also not ruled out, though they never interact on the pages of IJ.

The case of "patient zero" remains a mystery. Who was the first person to be debilitated by IJV? Unknown.

However, it is possible that there was none. Orin may have sent out the first copy as an experiment just to see what would happen, after hearing about the filming from Joelle, and knowing that dad was working on some pretty crazy stuff.

It is also the case that the victims of IJV, as described, are all normies, compared to the Incandenza children. Mario is epically birth defected, and Orin is a sociopath. It is not 100% clear that IJV works on everyone. I think that is why so much research and experiment on it is described my Marathe and Steeply. Orin might have viewed it and been immune, since sociopaths are known to lack empathy.

It is also possible that Orin tested it on a "subject" like the girl in the trailer park, though again, the on-page evidence is not there.

>My captcha just now was the wheelchairs.

>> No.6943999

>>6941449
>>6943937
A similar unresolved question is, when did Orin travel to Quebec and exhume his dead father and steal the only master which is not in dispute as such?

(Though I believe, with some credible published study guide writers, that the Antitois' copy, from the DuPlessis robbery, is a master. The note about the Antitois not knowing the difference between the rpms required in playback strongly suggests that the blanks they got from Dr. Feelgood (or whatever he is called) were not in fact blank. They just looked blank because that is what a master would play back as on the wrong gear. There is little other reason for this awkward technical construction of such minute detail, nor for its revelation, other than to hint that the Antitois copy is a master. This gives the AFR a master copy and enables them to produce sufficient copies for Tine to distribute under the guise of Fully Functional Phil, and induce the Continental Emergency. Which would also imply that the AFR were not digging up JOI to find the master they already had, but were looking for the antidote film, which is strongly suggested to be the Clipperton footage, shot by Mario, and also listed as entombed with JOI in his comically oversized casket. When the AFR were torturing Orin, they may have been seeking confirmation that he was the dazzle perpetrator, but they may also have been seeking confirmation of the location of the antidote. This seems logical for the AFR's mode of operation, that they would want to be in possession of the only thing that could ruin their plan to mass distribute IJV.)

>> No.6944046
File: 879 KB, 1196x1414, ○ ○ ○.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6944046

>>6932965
Woah dude, woah.

>> No.6944062

>>6941650
Is a .mobi okay?

>> No.6944087

>>6943999
There has also been some dispute over whether any "antidote" even exists at all. I assert that the ontic status of the antidote does not matter. The AFR are meticulous and patient and ruthless and leave nothing to chance. The existence of /rumors/ of an antidote are sufficient for them to track down the physical artifact associated with the rumors, if for no other reason than to confirm or invalidate the rumor. If invalidated, better safe than sorry, if confirmed, they would be in possession of the only protection against IJV, a critical bargaining chip in the next stage of their plans against ONAN. All of which is ample motive to haul Wayne, Gately and Hal to Quebec for the grave dig.

>> No.6944128

>>6944087
>>6944087
I believe Marathe also mentions the sacrifice and accidental loss of some few of his AFR compatriots to the testing of IJV. At least one of whom he describes as a "grave loss" to the AFR or words to that effect. The possibility of an antidote would strongly tempt Marathe to retrieve it on the possibility (again the truth status does not matter) that he could cure his brain damaged battle buddies. Marathe is shown over and over, after all, to go to great lengths to aid the terminally ill who are close to him.

>> No.6944263

>>6944046
And in relation to that point about narration, this is also as good a place as any to make another brain damaged assertion: The non-first-person parts of IJ are told by a completely reliable narrator.

A short and incomplete list of the historical authors DFW cribbed, Nabokov, Doestoevsky, Gogol, is also a list of writers who famously adore unreliable narrators. I believe that DFW's programme in this regard was not just literary showing off (though that was certainly part of it), but that he was sorting and categorizing his narrator, not in allegiance, but in contrast to them. Bain's letter is in Bain's POV, for example, and so unreliable.

But the narrator who tells us "Lyle levitates a meter off the matt" and "Lucien flies into the sky screaming in all the world's well known tongues" and "Wraith JOI places a Japanese Coke can on Gately's heart monitor" is quite literally sincere and factual. No one knows where Lyle came from. He can live for years on nothing but sweat. I believe these are just ordinary facts. Because Lyle's dead and has been for so long no one alive remembers his origin.

These observations are pretty well supported by the text itself, but they go by in a kind of benumbed daze of confusion that famously bogs down even paid newspaper critics, most of whom obviously didn't make it through.

The recently dead-again Infinite Summer project also provides support that IJ is not really that complicated, if only you can muster the inner sperger to force your way through it all, which the vast majority of people can't.