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/lit/ - Literature

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6909233 No.6909233 [Reply] [Original]

>Sit down to write
>Spend 30 minutes just staring at the screen, thinking
>Finally just force myself to write
>Get maybe 300 words in before I realize it's all shit and lose hope and give up
>Go to bed thinking, "Maybe tomorrow..."

Why was I born with a desire to do something I'm so shit at?

>> No.6909239

you just have shit will power is all

>> No.6909244

>>6909233
Don't force yourself to "write". Wait for inspiration. It doesn't have to be passive; inspiration can be invited. You'll get something you're happy with from an inspiration.

>> No.6909246

>>6909244
this is a bad idea

>> No.6909256

>>6909244
wow. the worst writing advice I've ever heard.

OP, the muse visits during the act of creation, not before.

>> No.6909259

>>6909244
>>6909256
On second thought, I was trolled.

Well memed, fellow anonymous poster.

>> No.6909263

Hey OP, I feel ya. All writers go through this emotional roller coaster. Just keep writing and try not to be so hard on yourself. :)

>> No.6909271

>>6909233

>300 words a day

Already 200 more words than I force myself to write every morning.

>> No.6909278

>>6909244

Why the fuck is write in quotations?

Like, do you say write when you actually mean jack off?

>> No.6909296

>>6909278
"writing" -- the activity, the concept, rather than the expression of ideas after their formulation

>> No.6909297

I really liked what Stephen King wrote about writing to be honest. It pretty straight to the point and, to be honest, correct.

>Can't bring yourself to read at least two books a week and write? You're not going to be a writer.

essentially.

>> No.6909321

>>6909297
>read two books a week
absolute madman

maybe before shitposting was invented. MAYBE. but with 4chan and also a job, for me, it's like 2 books a month, a few hundred words a day.

>> No.6909326

>>6909321

Well, at least you now know why you're not a writer.

>> No.6909336
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6909336

>>6909233
God OP you're a faggot. Have you ever read Moby-Dick? Ahab wasn't always crazily obsessed with killing the whale. He had lots of moments when he thought to himself "Oh maybe I shouldn't do this blah blah blah." But he forced himself to do it. Jesus Christ actually getting depressed then stopping?! That's like Bret Easton Ellis tier of shitiness. Get your shit together and read Moby-Dick. God I feel like I'm talking to a fucking 16-year old.

Pic related: you're the dumbfuck on the left fucking everything up for us.

>> No.6909345

>>6909233
>likes berserk
>thinks he's smart enough to write something good

>> No.6909358
File: 10 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6909358

>>6909345

>> No.6909396 [DELETED] 

I'm only just overcoming this phase. Now I'm just writing whatever pops into my head, refusing to re-read it, posting it on /lit/ for critique, and then starting something else. I've got pretty good feedback on here even though I cringe reading my own writing. This is apparently a good sign

>> No.6909515

OP read Immediate Fiction, its probably one of the best books a beginner can have on writing

>> No.6911000
File: 189 KB, 960x1280, 05 April 2013.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6911000

Self-Hate is one of the Seven Essential Qualities all artists share.

>> No.6911011

>>6909297
>>6909321

Well, King like pleb shit (his favorite author is J.K. Rowling), and it's pretty easy to race through those things.

>> No.6911030

>>6909244
Don't listen to this guy. There's no such thing as inspiration, either you write or you don't. Write millions of pages worth of shit if you have to, practice makes perfect.

>> No.6911047

>>6909515
where to dl? can't find it on the bay of pirates

>> No.6911048

>>6909244
retard.

>> No.6911056

>>6911047
I got it off the Kindle Store for $7

Its worth the price

>> No.6911083
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6911083

>>6909233
if i never wrote, my head would explode, but that doesn't mean i could write something worthwhile this very minute

do you never just have a compulsion to write? do words not just come to you? don't you notice hints of meaning, and want to flesh them out? or do you feel these things and just let them pass, or suppress them, and then go home and sit down and force yourself to write?

>> No.6911088

>>6909515
Thanks dude, i just bought this. Ive already read this: http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Fiction-Practical-Acclaimed-Creative/dp/1582343306/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_y

>> No.6911098
File: 41 KB, 283x352, laughing.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6911098

>>6909297
>taking advice from stephen king

>> No.6911102

>>6911011
if you aren't a retard literature is as easy to read as genre fiction

>> No.6911117
File: 71 KB, 500x411, sirjohn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6911117

>>6911102
>just read "Ada or Ardor" and "Moby Dick" next week.
>Write 5,000 words of a novel a day, like Stephen King
>You aren't a retard, are you?

>> No.6911148

>>6911102
i read moby dick in 2-3 days, never read ada

i read around 8-12h/day

if you don't read this much you will never be a good writer

>> No.6911159
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6911159

>>6911148
How are you training your writing skill when all you do is read?

>> No.6911166

>>6911159
that's what the other 4 waking hours are for!

>> No.6911178

>>6909297
Well if reading two books a week and writing like he did leads me to write like him, then I damn sure am not doing it.

Honestly, he's a fucking hack.

>> No.6911186

>>6911148
> i read 8-12 hours a day

Says the 26 year old NEET who lives off of mommies tendies and lies on the internet.

Better writers have read less and had more to do.

>> No.6911188

>>6911148
This thread is about people who actually write. Reading is great and all but you do have to balance it with creative output, a time consuming enterprise for most.

For comparison, I read Gravity's Rainbow in two weeks, while writing 1500 solid words per day and going to class. If I weren't going to class, I would choose to spend more time writing and going outside, not reading, because I think my reading pace is satisfactory.

>> No.6911457
File: 1.77 MB, 300x174, WAHAHAHAHAHAHA.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6911457

>People on /lit/ actually self-identify as writers

>> No.6911497

>>6911188
>Reading is great and all but you do have to balance it with creative output, a time consuming enterprise for most.
>you have to balance it with creative output
>you have to
wat

>> No.6911517

>>6909336
>using Ahab as a role model
Did you ever get to the end of Moby Dick, anon?

He kills the whale, Quequeg gets the doubloon, and they all return with a boat full of sperm cheering all the way. The carpenter converts the boat into a Nantucket mansion and they all live there together sharing merry tales and laughter

>> No.6911527

>>6911000
I think everything I make is great even if it's shit

is that better?

>> No.6911533

>>6911497
If you're going to get any writing done, yes, you have to balance. if you don't want to write, which you don't have to, then you don't have to balance.

If you don't want to get any writing done, then we aren't talking about you and you should stop replying.

>> No.6911534

>>6911517
Yes I finished it. When he's looking death in the eyes he refuses to give up, even in the face of certain failure he doesn't puss out. He knows it's better to die honestly than live dishonestly. So yes he is my role-model.

>> No.6911535

>>6909233
You weren't born with a desire to write. Society conditioned you to view fame as the summit of human achievement, and your own preferences (and possibly a lack of talent in other areas) led you to see writing as the best way to achieve this.

>> No.6911541

>>6911534
Ah, a fair answer. There is something admirable about that. He was totally cray-cray, though.

>> No.6911547

>>6909233
Thomas young was the last person to read everything published within his lifetime and he was a shit writer.

>> No.6911551

>>6911541
Dude who takes Ahab as role-model here again.

The thing is, damn near everything Melville did is about that. About what happens to humans when they refuse to accept moderation. It's weird because reading Moby-Dick about 4 years ago really kicked my ass into gear and showed me that I wasn't always going to be happy about doing something I loved. But I was obligated to do it anyway, to throw myself into it completely. Which I think is the opposite of the message Melville wanted to convey. About a year later I read Pierre and saw the value in moderation. Discipline and Pleasure are equally toxic in extremes. meh

>> No.6911619

>>6911535

How can you say that with any degree of certainty?

Your post is literally Projection given readable form.

>> No.6911690

>>6911619
Haha, probably true- I certainly have dreams of fame. Seems likely to be generally true to me, though- do you not think fame (or 'recognition', or 'acclaim', if you want it to sound more cultured) is promoted as a major goal in modern society?

Also
>you weren't born with a desire to write
is hardly a controversial claim. OP acquired that desire from somewhere, and I'm suggesting an obvious source.

>> No.6911705

>>6909233
Research more, read more, do new shit. If I can find the energy to write a 50k+ word scat/watersports porno to spite someone I don't like, you can write something you're interested in.

>> No.6911805

>>6911527
It probably means it's really shit.

Sorry.

>> No.6911810

>>6911805
I didn't ask if it was or wasn't

>> No.6912133
File: 23 KB, 302x335, fuck.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6912133

>>6909233

>started writing my novel in January
>was preceding at a good pace (for 1hr/day), got around 30k words done in 5 months, could do around 800 words on a good day
>once I get to the middle a nameless feeling of wrongness assails me
>everything is shit
>the entire first half serves no purpose
>have to scrap the whole thing
>started again, feel much, much better, but I'm still going slower and only have 9k words
>the same feeling is starting to creep again, probably because the next part of the book relies heavily on characters and I have nothing to draw from except other media
>I wanted to get the 1st draft finished this year

>> No.6912137

>>6909233
Force yourself to write for at least an hour a day, even if what you write is shit. That's the only way to improve.

>> No.6912546

>>6909233
The problem here is you weren't born with the desire to write, you're just pretending that you were. There's an ulterior desire behind it. Validation from a set of peers you deem worthy? Wanting to feel relevant? Wanting to feel deep? It's probably something of the sort.

>> No.6912559

>>6912133
>was preceding at a good pace
Just go ahead and give up writing. It's for the best.

>> No.6912570

>>6911619
>How can you say that with any degree of certainty?
Not that guy, but if you're having serious trouble writing anything, it's pretty fucking obvious you're not cut out for it. I mean this is just how life works.

>> No.6913804

>>6912570
>Not that guy, but if you're having serious trouble writing anything, it's pretty fucking obvious you're not cut out for it.

Are there any writers who will admit they have never had a period in their life where they have serious trouble writing anything?

>> No.6913808

>>6911000

What are the other six?

>> No.6913901

Just reminding everyone that Griffith did nothing wrong.

>> No.6914039

>>6913808

Depression, social anxiety, obsessive narcissism, substance dependence of some sort (alcoholism being a popular one), at least a low-level form of autism, and literacy. ,

>> No.6914075

>>6911030
I know someone would say that and it's kinda true, but the "practice makes perfect" shtick is overrated. You can spend your life practicing and only get perfect at a handful of shitty tricks if you're not practicing cleverly. So first thing is to figure out what you want o write and what you need to be able to write it. Only then, you practice towards those goals.

If you can't answer those questions, then yes, just write a lot. But beware. It's easy to write everyday and produce next to nothing, just like it's easy to study everyday and learn almost nothing.

Also for some people doing a lot in your day and writing a little at night from time to time is a better method than forcing yourself to write a lot everyday. You just have to experiment different methods until you find one that suits you (and remember, you don't have to have only one method in your entire life).

"Just write you 1000/5000/over 9000 words a day" is a misleading advice because it leads you to believe there is a single magic wand (HARD WORK) that will make you a writer. There isn't. Working hard is not the same thing as being organized in your work, and although being organized it's better, it's no guarantee either.


>>6911535
>You weren't born with a desire to write.

Nobody was you idiot, newborn baby can't even grasp the concept of writing.

>> No.6914081

>>6911705
>If I can find the energy to write a 50k+ word scat/watersports porno to spite someone I don't like, you can write something you're interested in.

To be fair it's probably more an issue of you having an issue than anything else.

>> No.6914085

>>6913804
Asimov perhaps.

>>6914039

Are you saying Hemingway is the only writer ever or what ?

>> No.6914086

>>6909244
>Wait for inspiration
Literally THE worst advice one could give on writing. If that was the point then 9/10, got my to respond.

>> No.6914112

>>6914086
I don't understand how you could write without an idea. Like, what the fuck are you trying to achieve?

>> No.6914220

>>6914112
you don't get ideas by just waiting fuckhead, you have to fucking think.

also it is possible to just start writing and roll with whatever comes out, you don't have to think first necessarily, you can write first and think after and then write more and write more and think again or any permutation thereof

>> No.6914798

>>6914086
>>6914220
Not that guy, but "waiting" doesn't necessarily mean just sitting there.

Also, you're wrong, good ideas don't come from thinking. They come from DOING. You have to be taking action, and you should WAIT until an idea comes to you WHILE TAKING ACTION before you write anything.

>> No.6915805

>>6911098
>>6911178
Worked for him lmao If you guys are struggling to write as it is you're not going to shit out the next culture shattering novel.

Honestly this board is so fucking determined to start writing as if they're the top of the game without realizing its like trying to sell your first painting to The Louvre. King doesn't write quotes like that for professional writers, he does for the 20 some year old guys and girls who still have their training wheels on.

>> No.6915938

>>6915805

Or, you know, he's trying to discourage people from jumping into the market in order to keep the competition for himself as low as possible.

>> No.6916054

>>6912133
Seems that your issue is planning.

>> No.6916074

>>6915938

King has reached the level where he has no competition anymore.

He's in his own one-man "King Market" that both always needs him and won't accept anyone else.

>> No.6916142

>>6914085
>Are you saying Hemingway is the only writer ever or what ?

While Hemingway is the patron saint of the Seven, he is hardly the only writer to embody them.

>> No.6916805

>>6909233

The only problem I see here is that you stop writing.

Keep writing, even if it is shit.

The shittiest writing in the world can still be edited while nothing unwritten can be worked with

>> No.6916847

>>6912546
The reason why he wants to do it doesn't matter.

Good works have been written because some writer wanted to make money.

>> No.6917177

>>6914220
Why hadn't OP thought before he decided to write? That's the point. He decided to write with no impetus behind it.

>> No.6917469

>>6916847

How on earth could you call something as polluted as "done for money" a good piece of work?

>> No.6917893

>>6917469

Authorial intent has a whooping 0% effect on a work's quality

>> No.6917903

>>6909233
>that fag who keeps posting berserk images
Hey! Hurry off now before you miss tonight's episode of game of thrones!

Sage pleb shit
Always the same thread too
Dick you ashole u obviously don't have any aptitude for creative expression
>>>/tv/

>> No.6918244

>>6917903

Creative expression is more of a result of upbringing and enviorment than any sort of inherent aptitude

>> No.6918759

>>6918244

While I'll agree that may apply to some, there do exist people who are inherently creative

>> No.6918832

>>6916847
Sure, but it doesn't seem like he's trying to write for money. He's trying to write because he thinks he really wants to, is meant to, hence the "born with the desire to" tidbit. But if he has to force himself to do this, obviously this is not the case. In this situation the reason DOES matter.

>> No.6918842

>>6918832

Is it really that hard to imagine someone who desires to create a work of art but finds themselves without the technical skills to live up to the standard they've built for themselves by watching professional artists?

Just because someone is poor at what they want to do doesn't meant they don't desire to do it.

>> No.6918868

>>6909297
>>Can't bring yourself to read at least two books a week and write? You're not going to be a writer.

The fuck?

Anyone who is serious when they say "If you don't ______________ you're not a writer" is full of fucking shit if they fill that blank in with anything other than "ever put words on paper in your entire life"

Fuck off King and you're fucking "Oh, you're not a reeeeeal writer" bullshit

>> No.6918869

>>6909244

Somewhat agree

There was a time where people would write because they had something to write about. Nowadays you write for the sake of it.

Don't "wait" for inspiration. Do something interesting, even if just going for a walk. Break some routine patterns you might have, and you'll see your perception of things quickly change.

There is a lot of illusion behind a work of art. You have to convince yourself that what you're doing is necessary. Change your habits until you write because you feel like you need to.

>> No.6918923

>>6918869
>Nowadays you write for the sake of it.

The only thing that is ever done "for the sake of itself" is masturbation.

That's it.

>> No.6918949

>>6918923

lol if you are doing art for any other purpose than itself you have a 97,45% chance of doing a perfectly terrible job at it.

>> No.6919010

>>6918949

Hasn't art functioned on commission and patronage up until very recently, historically speaking? That's to say few of the great works of art in history were spawned from pure creativity, novels done through serialization, paintings and sculpture with a client or space to decorate in mind.

Doing it purely for its own sake is a narcissistic gesture that's produced sparse quality since the value of such art begins and ends with its creator. I'd even claim that it isn't even art unless its made to be appreciated by some current of culture.

>> No.6919030

>>6919010
>I'd even claim that it isn't even art unless its made to be appreciated by some current of culture.

While I'd agree with you mostly, let's not forget that there exists art made specifically to get a negative-rise out of certain sects of society, a sort of "made to be unappreciated"

>> No.6919080

>>6919010

>Doing it purely for its own sake is a narcissistic gesture

how is it narcissistic to give yourself to the subjective concept that is "art".

And I'm pretty sure most artists didn't try doing their craft only because of patronage, since there were always tons of better crafts to take on if your objective was money. Only master artists could get a decent patronage, and even then a lot of them died poor since it wasn't that much money to begin with.

>> No.6919238

>>6918842
There's a difference between being poor at it and having to force yourself to do ANYTHING with it.

>> No.6919262

>>6919238

Notice that OP has no problem writing 300 words a day, the problem is he thinks they're all shit.

You're mixing up desire with skill, OP has the desire to write well and the ability to write, but because he has trouble living up to whatever standard he's set for himself he's psychologically sabotaged his efforts to work beyond 300 words a day

>> No.6919304

>>6919262
People actually count their writing by words?

Jesus fuck do something more pracical like playing around with scenarios, dialogue and POV. The shit that actually matters.

What idiot counts words?

>> No.6919642

>>6919304

Hey, whatever get's you working, you know, to each his own.

>> No.6919733

>>6909233
Learn how to edit.

>> No.6919736

>>6919304
keeping track of word counts is useful if you are trying to sell short stories.

>> No.6919750

>>6916142
To be fair a decen chunk of Romantic and post-Romantic writers qualify, but I feel overall they're more the exception than the rule. Many writers didn't have more than 2 or 3 items in the list.

>> No.6919969

>>6919262
>Notice that OP has no problem writing 300 words a day, the problem is he thinks they're all shit.
Actually he clearly said he finds it hard to even start. The fact he always erases what he writes means he's never really certain about what he wants to write, either.

OP, do you have ideas that give you the urge to write? If so, stop erasing your shit, and just keep going. Do your editing afterwards. If not, then your desire to write is not authentic. That doesn't mean it never will be, of course.

>> No.6920025

I get to unfocused and always want to write something else, with out a deadline or at least someone telling me what they want I can't get anything done.

>> No.6920037

>>6909233
When you don't feel like writing something, get one of your favoritey books, and start writing it word for word.

When you feel like writing something original, do so. You might feel like you're plagiarizing something, but keep writing through with that idea until you're content with it.

>> No.6920048

For starters, write in a notebook with a pen and if you cant write then just diddle daddle. Youll eventually begin writing. Best thing about notebooks is that you can look at them later.

>> No.6920074

My question for OP is what exactly do you want to write? Do you have a specific story or character you'd like to see in a book/short story? Do you want to explore a theme and have the characters represent the angles of the theme?

I know for myself, typically it starts with a theme. Something I'm trying to wrap my brain around, and it can really be something as simple as an emotion (Dealing with grief/loss) or idea (what exactly makes someone considered a failure?). I usually approach a story from the angle of a theme because it's not something you focus on throughout the entire story, and can be touched on here and there where it's contextually important.

>> No.6920675

>>6911457
>writer:
>someone who writes
oh how bout that

>> No.6920684

>>6917177
Transcribing thoughts gives structure, my friend

>> No.6920734

Next time don't wait so long.

Also, copy passages from good books. See how they tick. Try to reword them and analyze why your phrasing is shit and what makes the original good. What is the phrase subject? Why? What is the first word, how are the words organized, why?

You'll get there. We'll all get there. I need to believe in others so I can believe in myself.

>> No.6920765
File: 108 KB, 1097x728, advtime___the_creation_of_lemongrab_by_sallychan-d5w46wj.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6920765

>>6909233
This speaks to my heart.

>> No.6920826

>>6914039
I possess all of them
It's still a bad list, though

>> No.6920853

>>6919030
That's appreciation
Appreciation in art doesn't necessarily mean positive reaction and liking. It is designed to elicit a certain reaction and does its job. It's being appreciated for what it is.

>> No.6921137

>>6920826

Are you a bad person?

>> No.6921491

>>6920826

>That list holds true
>But it's still shit

heh?

>> No.6921497

>>6920765
this picture speaks to me. it's like I saved a pic of a girl jesus on the cross. everything gets flipped now. dizzying

>> No.6921504

>>6909244
an infinite amount of schlock in this world, only add to it if you can't help it

>> No.6921509

deleting the things you write is like killing hostages, it keeps the living ones in line and shows them you mean business

>> No.6921544

>>6921509

And what do the police in this metaphor represent?

>> No.6921957

>>6921544

Critics

>> No.6922416

>>6921504
Was that sentence supposed to make sense?

>> No.6922577

>>6909345
Retard

>> No.6922583
File: 67 KB, 445x354, romaninbed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6922583

>>6921509
DECIMATIO

>> No.6924050

>>6909233
I used to be this way. If this is something you actually enjoy doing you just have to keep at it till that story comes to you. Most artists feel their own work is shit so don't always trust yourself. Also, when it comes to modern "literature" there is a market for everything. You could write trashy fantasy novels like me or anything really and there'll be people who will eat that shit up..
My problem is I don't feel I'm descriptive enough.

>> No.6924053

>>6909256
>>6909246
David Lynch would disagree.

>> No.6925629

>>6924053

David "Hack" Lynch?