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/lit/ - Literature

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6905465 No.6905465 [Reply] [Original]

>writes pornographic novels that celebrate homosexual pedophilia, child rape, child torture, child murder
>goes on record saying its something he, his lovers, and his fans find sexually stimulating
>gets position at a univeristy
>celebrated by the new york times

Now that total degeneracy has won the culture war, what constitutes the counterculture? Is the only edgy option right-wing intellectualism?

>> No.6905496
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6905496

>>6905465
Yeah, the real counterculture at the moment is neotraditionalism. People who admit out loud that they like certain things about old-school gender roles, economic systems and spirituality, without diluting it with the feel-good veneer that so many of the institutions supposedly promoting traditional values hide behind.

>> No.6905524

>>6905465
any time i meet some horrible girl who talks endlessly about grr martin and rape culture, i tell bring up delany, just to watch how they back peddle and try to justify how a gay black man's porno novels are "art" but martin's are a tool of the patriarchy. but seriously, i'm so fucking tired of all this. i'm just so tired.

>> No.6907031

>>6905524
Delany goesn't get to be a member of the patriarchy because he's black. and a poet. and also because of Dhalgren. seriously, what the fuck?

>> No.6907063
File: 133 KB, 1200x798, samuel-delany-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6907063

>>6907031
Wait, he's black?

>> No.6907096

>>6905524
yeah but delany is outright a better writer than grrm, creep style aside.

>> No.6907099

Anyone remember the name of that edgy 18 or so year old author who talked in an interview about worshiping his penis?

>> No.6907107

>>6907063
Yes, but interacting with evil subject matter is slowly turning him white by osmosis.

>> No.6907108

>>6905465
Oh damn, I read one of his other books, Dark Reflections. I'd heard of Hogg but I didn't know it was the same dude.
>During one of these rapes, Denny, in a fit of mania, decides to pierce his own penis using a nail. Soon, Denny's penis begins to swell and bleed, seemingly infected. At this point he begins repeating the phrase "it's all right," apparently having lost his wits after the self-mutilation.
>"[Hogg] is a thug, a "rape artist" and terrorizer for hire, with inclinations more homosexual than heterosexual. Hogg may very well be the most vile, disgusting personality to emerge from contemporary American fiction: he never bathes or changes clothes, urinates and defecates in his pants, eats his own various bodily excrete, drinks a lot of beer and eats plenty of pizza to "maintain" his large gut--he has worms and likes it--and enjoys bringing suffering to others, male or female, mostly for pay but sometimes for his own delectation. Yet he is also fascinating: the embodiment of what our society can turn people into, the decaying condition of the human soul."
Sounds great. I'll have to check out Dhalgren too.

>>6907107
kek

>> No.6907112

>>6907108
Meant to note that the nail penis reminds me of a scene from a book called The Jewish Messiah by Arnon Grunberg. The book's like 400+ pages long and at least 80 of those are dedicated to a botched circumcision and its aftermath and then his testicle (which had to be surgically removed) became a modern Messiah.

>> No.6907118

The edgy option is to write what you truly want to write without affectation or posturing.

>> No.6907130
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6907130

I'm not even really shocked because i've read a bunch of supposedly fucked shit and listened to black metal and death metal for years with subject matter more fucked up. But to be entirely honest the idea of a character that sounds like Rob Zombie hacked him out for a shitty movie in a novel that moves slow as fuck from the perspective of a young sex slave child called "cocksucker" sounds so fucking boring and pointless that I'd rather stab my own dick with a nail TBH.

Sounds like some august underground mordum tier wankfest of truly soulless (in the artistic sense) bullshit that maybe teenagers who want to see how bad things can get might read.

That all being said, reading warzone stories from real life has always fucked me up way more than this type of gorno which is exactly like you know it will be every single time.


Maybe i'll check this out if i'm having trouble sleeping.

>> No.6907131

>>6905465
>filth like this gets published
>mfw ill never get published

>> No.6907142

>>6905465
Right wing yes, but anti-liberal right wing. The market breeds degeneracy. Capitalism destroyed tradition, read some Lasch.

>> No.6907148
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6907148

>neoreactionary garbage is considered edgy because it's essentially a giant meme
>faggots will brag about how it's edgy like that makes it a superior worldview
It might be more acceptable to be a communist than a fascist in modern America, but the fascist holds far more power. Who did the US government back - Pinochet, or Allende?

>> No.6907154

>>6905465

Pretty much, yeah. Then the right-wing is gonna go too far and it's just a pendulum swinging back and forth.

Not that I'm giving Hogg any credit for going 'too far'. It's living proof how nothing's shocking anymore. We've reached maximum freedom a long time ago, and Hogg is teaching us how thoroughly we've taken it for granted by being such a boring, tedious slog of a book.

>> No.6907184

>>6905465
>Is the only edgy option right-wing intellectualism?

*resentiment option


you're gonna act like a more *intellectual* version of an outraged soccer mom just for being contrarian?

>> No.6907205

>>6907118
This, you're all gonna write shit and rationalize it with "left-wing literary establishment is holdin me down, maaan, I dindu nuffin"

>> No.6907216

>>6907184
Epic
>>6907205
But they are

>> No.6907221

>>6907216
>dindunuffin

>> No.6907251

>>6907221
Epic

>> No.6907259

>>6907251
>dindunuffin

>> No.6907275

>>6907259
Epic

>> No.6907294

>>6907275
>dindunuffin

>> No.6907304

>>6905465
>Is the only edgy option right-wing intellectualism?
That is in fact the reality of the situation. The more this "degeneracy" gains power, the more the "right-wing intellectualism" will gain followers. It's always a yin-yang situation. At some point in the future the "degeneracy" will have permeated modern culture and society so much, become so overexposed, that the only natural way to go forward is to "revert" into more traditional ideas and beliefs.

Also what the fuck are you redditards doing in this thread with your shitposting?

>> No.6907312

>>6907304
>That is in fact the reality of the situation.
lol kill yourself verbose faggot

>> No.6907314

>>6905465
>now that degeneracy has won
this was publish 20 years ago

>> No.6907323

>>6907312
I didn't know there was a rule on /lit/ which states you have to write a post in the least amount of words as possible. Or is that just your self-imposed reddit + twitter rule you've decided to try and force others to follow?
lmao smh you fag lol #downboated

>> No.6907329

>>6907323
triggered much fundie cretin?

>> No.6907334

>>6905496
>feel-good veneer
Like what?

>> No.6907336

>>6907329
Definitely.

>> No.6907340

>>6907304
Nice narrative you got there

>>6905465
>right-wing
>intellectualism

Pick one buddy

>> No.6907349

>>6907340
>>6907329
>>6907312
>>6907275
>>6907251
>>6907216


just refreshing front page and seeing this thread bumped im guessing this is one person, and a mad faggot at that.

>> No.6907360

>>6907340
Tell me what's wrong with what I wrote in >>6907340, which is basically what >>6905496 wrote as well.

>>6907349
It's one of those
>you have a differing opinion but i can't fight it so ill just shitpost instead
people.

>> No.6907366
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6907366

>>6907349
:-)

>> No.6907374

>>6907360
prove falsifiability of your "opinions" or you don't have any worthwhile to begin with

>> No.6907386

>>6907374
So if I called them facts instead you'd be forced to express yours? Alright, I'll rephrase:
Dispute the facts I wrote in >>6907304 and those of >>6905496.

>> No.6907392

>>6905465
Should I regret buying Dhalgren from sci fi recs?

>> No.6907393
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6907393

>>6907386
Still no evidence, you are buttmad, I don't have to dispute shit.

>> No.6907396

>>6907349
You do realize there's this little thing on the top of the page below the reply button that tells you how many unique posters there are in this thread, right?

>>6907360
>always a yin yang situation

Wow, nice platitude you got there

I disagree with the other guy too, you know why? What you're peddling isn't revolutionary or counter-cultural: it's contrarian. I don't agree with the shock culture establishment in intellectualism, or the decidedly progressive, soft-left bent in the American university establishment, but I sure as fuck understand that "more of the same" of what created this situation isn't going to move the discourse forward.

>> No.6907407

>>6907393
You have nothing then. Impressive.

>>6907396
One look at how societies and empires changed throughout history and you'll see why "more of the same" is what's always going to be happening and why "yin yang situation" and "pendulum" makes sense.

>> No.6907438

>>6907407
>trying to sell me narratives without evidence
>"look at history"
>"it just makes sense"

Burden of proof is on your end, but up until now you've proven to me you like to make blanket statements without backup

>> No.6907449

>>6907407
>One look
impenetrable, waterproof, convincing, i can't hold nothing against that indeed

>> No.6907461

>>6907366
nice edit
>imply the 3 "epic" posts are not the same person

I'm guessing they are all you

>> No.6907463

>>6907438
>up until now you've proven to me you like to make blanket statements without backup
Funny, because that's what you've been doing.

>>6907449
>impenetrable, waterproof, convincing
I didn't know societal change throughout history was made up. Thanks for enlightening me.

>> No.6907467
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6907467

>>6907463
>shifting goalposts this hard

>> No.6907483

>>6907393
>I don't have to give a reason for being a buttmad faggot, it's my right to

>>6907438
In the case of Chinese philosophy at least, it seems to swing between Ruism and Taoism similar to what that other poster was talking about.

>> No.6907502

>>6905465

Writing about shocking subjects:

>OMG SO TRIGGERED!!!!111 CALL THE PTSD POLICE!!!

Maybe childrens literature is more apropriate for you? Fags like you that find Delany or Mcarthy shocking should stick away from reading books that peierce your sensitive psyche and stick with normie-core literature like Murakami or Franzen

Also

>using "degeneracy" the biggest buzzowrd your cointainment board has ever shitted out unironicaly.

>> No.6907525

>>6905465

Why do conservacucks want to always censor art instead of creating their own to counter what they perceive as damaging to society?

Is conservativism/traditionalism an inherent enemy of democracy?

>> No.6907538

>>6907525
They are SJWs turned upside down.

>> No.6907598

>>6907142
>Capitalism destroyed tradition, read some Lasch.
If Lasch talks about stuff like this, I look forward to reading his stuff. Thanks for the rec anon!

>> No.6907602

>>6907525
>What's the deal with conservatives always wanting to conserve?
Uh

>> No.6907607

>>6905524
So that, like, happens a lot, huh? Horrible girls talking to you about rape culture who also happen to have read Delany?

>> No.6907615

>>6907538
But SJWs are conservatives too

>> No.6907618

>>6907108
Now that I know Dhalgren's a prequel to this, I feel I have to read it. It doesn't really sound like my cup of tea, though, tbh.

>> No.6907626

>>6907107
I kek'd. Anatole Broyard all over again.

>> No.6907637

>>6907130
you do realize that the same subject matter treated by metal heads or edgy people isn't gonna have the same results as if it's written by someone with sincere interest, talent or a well trained technique, right?
Not defending this guy, just a general thing.

>> No.6907643

ENJOY
N
J
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Y

THE
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E

DECLINE
E
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I
N
E

>> No.6907650

>>6907148
Fascists are not reactionary I any way. They are utterly modern.

>> No.6907666

>>6907637
While the person handling the topic usually matters more than the topic itself in this case it comes out to about the same effect.
Find some passages online and read about how "cocksucker" get gang raped.

This book isn't notorious because it has beautiful rape prose; and i'd literally stick the lyrics for chainsaw gutsfuck over most passages in this novel in terms of artistic handling of material. That's not saying much.

>> No.6907683

>>6907650
>fascism is actually an attempt to respond to modernism
>HURR reactionary!!!! Here is my personal attempt to respond to modernism that's totally different!!!

I'm not fascist at all but these people are literally sickening.

>> No.6907716
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6907716

>>6907650
>Fascists are not reactionary

>> No.6907732

>>6907463
Didn't you hear me? You need to prove YOUR theory is true, I don't have to disprove anything since you're the one making the positive statement

>> No.6907788

>>6907732
Shut the fuck up.

I;'m not even the person you were reply to, but every single one of your posts comes off as arrogant and whiny and I feel like someone has to say it.

His theory is just saying that society follows a more or less Hegelian dialectic. Not only is this a pretty common theory, it does have a decent historical basis. The Dionysian mythologies for example are theorized to have been a reaction to the rise of Greek civilization. This is basic shit right here, and if you don't even have a minor understanding of history you shouldn't be posting on this board.

What's more important however, is that we're on an informal conversation board. The poster you're pestering isn't presenting a dissertation, he's pulling a theory out of his ass to discuss it. This is how most theories get started. If his theory somehow asspains you then feel free to respond with a counter theory/example or kill yourself but don't shit up the entire thread because of it.

Furthermore, you clearly don't even understand what a theory is. He can't prove it's true because such a proof would be LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE YOU STUPID FUCKIGN FAGGOT. PULL YOUR GOD DAMN ASS OUT OF YOUR HEAD. I bet you think evolution has been "proven" "true" too.

On behalf of all the posters of /lit/, I'm going to politely ask you to take a step back from the computer, slap yourself in the face for me, then not come back to this site until you're over 18. Thanks.

>> No.6907865

>>6907788
If creationism somehow asspains you then feel free to respond with a counter theory/example or kill yourself but don't shit up the entire thread because of it.

this is how retarded you sound

>> No.6907876

>>6907788
I'm the poster he replied to and I just stopped trying to make sense of what his intention was, but I admire you for blowing his autistic ass out.

>> No.6907880
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6907880

>>6907108
Oh fuck I wanna read this

>> No.6907900

Due to cyclical nature of history Delany shall be proclaimed islamic communist and publicly shamed while Mencius Moldbug takes his rightful place on the throne specially put for that purpose in White House.

SOMEBODY SCREENCAP THIS SHIT

>> No.6907955

>>6907900
Moldbug doesn't want to be king, asshole.

>> No.6908021

>>6907955
sorry your precious husbando got strawmanned :^)

>> No.6908038

>>6907650
That's right, neoreactionaries are even MORE atavistic and brutal.

>> No.6908512

>>6905465

I actually like a lot of Delaney's stuff and I'm pretty reactionary. Hogg is pure degeneracy at its finest, though. Anyone who tries to defend it is a fucking retard.

>> No.6908580

reading Dhalgren right now and aware of his other stuff, Delany seems like basically the Mohiro Kitoh of American prose fiction. it's not a bad thing.