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/lit/ - Literature

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689783 No.689783 [Reply] [Original]

My teacher friend is stocking a classroom library for 6th and 7th graders. The school's buying them so budget shouldn't really be a problem.

Can /lit/ help her? She wants stuff that challenges them and wouldn't usually be assigned by the average teacher.

Details are in the attached pic.

>> No.689800

The Pendragon Series (although long) is targeted for that age group.
However, the Book Theif, I am the Messenger (and pretty much anything written by Markus Zusak) seem to be in that age group, but have 1000x the depth.
I read the book "Unwind" by Neal Shusterman. I get the feeling it's also for that age group, but it's not just fluff either.

>> No.689806

Nigger by nigger
also Ayn Rand by Ayn rand

>> No.689808

Naked Lunch...

>> No.689810

das kapital junior ed

>> No.689815

Pendragon books fit the "coming of age" or "going away" bit, but there are 10 books in the series, and they're about 400-600 pages each.
"Unwind" would be good for 'democracy'. Definitely very good. It's a dystopian-like novel which begins under a fictional resolution of the whole pro-life/pro-choice thing, but I'm pretty sure 7th graders fall in the target age group.
"The Book Theif" is about WWII, as told by the Grim Reaper. Not exactly about democracy, but a little bit about going away. A lot about saying goodbyes. Some about growing up.

>> No.689817

>>689800

Thanks for the suggestions. But what she had in mind was non-YA stuff that's still within reach (barely) of an upper-middle class 13 year old.

>> No.689825

Try getting some Jostein Gaarder (preferably Sophie's World) and Per Nilsson. Weren't the usual YA books, but still pretty readable and fun.
The Curious Incident, perhaps an obvious choice.
If you want to go with Catcher in the Rye, perhaps Nine Stories is also a good addition, there are several in there that might be interesting (A perfect day for bananafish, for Emsé etc.)

>> No.689829

1984 and Animal Farm perhaps? I would think it a bad idea though to not put some YA in the collection. It's not all shit.

>> No.689831

I really liked Animal Farm, which I read in 8th grade for a class. But others that I know don't like Orwell's style.
Fahrenheit 451 is still a good read (also read in 8th grade) even if it might be a "typical" kind of book.

The first Inkheart book (by Cornelia Funke) is also really good. It's a little about growing up, and a little about going away. Well... I suppose it is a lot about going away.

It might also be interesting to have them read Peter Pan. I wonder how many of them HAVEN'T EVER READ THE STORY. It's fairly different from most of the movies I've seen.

>> No.689832

Stranger In A Strange Land
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldrich
A Scanner Darkly
Childhoods End
Flatland

These are books actually worth reading. This is what I was reading instead of the Christmas Carol and other dull books.

>> No.689836

Running With Scissors by Augusten Burroughs. It's so out there but also deals with coming of age.

And Prozac Nation by Elizabeth Wurtzel-- teens are so quick to throw around the word "depression"

>> No.689842

>>689817
That's more helpful (different anon).
Gerald Durrell - My Family and Other Animals
Tolkien - Lord of the Rings
Diana Wynne Jones - Fire and Hemlock and Howl's Moving Castle
Kipling - Kim
At least a few interesting popular science books. Maybe Bill Bryson's one and some anecdotes by Feynman.
Remarque - All Quiet on the Western Front
Delany - Babel-17

It's pretty male-English though.

>> No.689844

>>689829

I would have to agree with this.
Just because something is YA doesn't mean there aren't multiple depths. Does she just want to throw "complex" books at them? Or ones where the text is easy enough to read and understand, but the ideas and undertones are on a higher level?

>> No.689850

>Remarque - All Quiet on the Western Front

This was my favorite book in 10th grade.

>> No.689851

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baron_in_the_Trees

What else !

>> No.689856

>>689850

Mine too. I loved that book.

>> No.689859

I love how she refers to 11 year olds as students.

>> No.689866

His Dark Materials fits your friend's requirements really rather well, especially since it alludes so much to William Blake, who is a poet easy to read but hard to master. The ambiguities and complexities in his 'Songs of Innocence and Experience' are hidden in what often look like nursery rhymes, and their hiddenness is a demand that you stop accepting easy readings and start working to interpret the world yourself. This conviction that we all have to abandon the need for guides and prophets (Blake is trying to be the prophet who will guide people to a world where kings or priests are no longer needed) is a key part of Blake's democratic spirit. It's also very important to His Dark Materials.

The problem here is that His Dark Materials is long, and Blake is hard. Together they may constitute a penis too mighty for most children to handle. Still, Northern Lights is pretty cool.

>> No.689867

>>689783

Everything I needed to know at age 11, I learned from Slaughterhouse Five.

>> No.689869

>>689859

Well they are.

>> No.689874

Gary Paulsen, esp. Transall Saga & Hatchet

>> No.689879

>>689859
What else would they be?

>>689866
I thought about suggesting this. But apparently we aren't supposed to suggest YA books?

>> No.689885

>>689879
Schoolboy maybe, something like "that"

>> No.689888

OP here, she elaborated further on what she wanted:

"I don't want just juvenile and wholesome! I want something at the threshold of their reading level and social consciousness."

Note that she is an atheist and a bit leftist.

>> No.689890

>>689885

What?

>> No.689892

>>689885

What about the girls? What's wrong with student anyway?

>> No.689894

>>689888

This too:

"Nash: I don't want to stay with Newbery Winners. I want something more unconventional. But yes, I already included Maus in my book list. Oh, and I've read Sharon Creech! :D

Anyway, let's talk about it when we meet again. :P

Mixka: Yep, Pride of Baghdad is already part of the list. I've been raving to Jed about it. :D Oh, and I'm not one for censorship. Sex is all good. The curriculum director is pretty unorthodox himself."

>> No.689896

>>689879

Pupils?

>> No.689897

>>689888

>Note that she is an atheist and a bit leftist.

How is that even relevant in regards to what the children can handle/understand?

>> No.689899

>>689874
I second this.

Also: Louis Sachar - Holes

>> No.689902

>>689896
>>689859

The fuck are you talking about, bro?

>> No.689910

>>689897

Deep down, I think she wants to plant the seeds of doubt and "social justice" in them. Such desires will color whatever she does approve.

>> No.689914

>>.689890
Schoolboy/girl better, happy ?
>>.689892
At 11-13 you learn, you're not a student. So what, at 16 you are a PhD doctor ? a searcher maybe ?
But maybe i'm wrong... maybe

>> No.689916

>>689914

Seriously dude, what the fuck? You have mental problems.

>> No.689918

>>689914

So I guess it's impossible that anyone studying can be referred to as a student?

>> No.689919

Anything by Oscar Wilde

>> No.689920

Give each kid a copy of Ulysses and say "Good luck, fuckers!"

>> No.689929

Some Shakesphere wouldn't be a bad idea, I read Hamlet about 8th grade.

>> No.689931

>>689920

Why not just give them Finnegans Wake?

>> No.689932

>>689888

Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience, then! As I said, easy to read, hard to read PROPERLY.

Also, Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban. It's a post-apocalyptic novel written in an imagined debased future English. It is about coming of age and leaving home and working out how to rock a viable and free politic, and a lot of other things too.

>> No.689933

Looking for Alaska

>> No.689934

Ray Bradbury.

>> No.689935

>>689914
>>689918
Oh, i just forgot that the retarted people over the sea has only 400 hundred words of vocabulary
No worry mate, it will be ok.

>> No.689942

>>689902

Poster of >>689859 and >>689896 here.

This is what I'm talking about:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pupil

The teacher, however, refers to her 11 years old pupils as 'students'. But this is an somewhat inaccurate description of an 11 years old pupil.

(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/student))

>> No.689945

>>689932

samefag here, also both are great for teaching how to analyse language because Blake's is supremely suggestive and ambiguous even though seemingly simple, whereas Hoban's imaginary post-nuclear English is deformed in particular creative ways and attending to it forces you to see how each changed word reflects the world that has borne it.

>> No.689948

>I'm not one for censorship. Sex is all good. The curriculum director is pretty unorthodox himself."

Stranger in a Strange Land, all the boys will thank her.

>> No.689949

Depends on what she refers to as challenging. I think i read Nietzsche, Marx, Einstein and Machiavelli at that age, so some philosophy would probably be good. I don`t really know what normal kids read though...

>> No.689964

>>689948
Better yet, just use hentai. Tell the board it's important for "understanding cultural differences".

>> No.689965

>>689942

Know what?

Sukadik

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=student

>> No.689967

>>689948
BREAKING NEWS
a teacher running a 6th grade sex commune has been detained by police...

>> No.689971

The Fountainhead.

>> No.689976

>>689949
color me skeptical, but you don't really feel like you got 100% of the message from these texts when you were 12 years old do you?
i know i wouldn't have at that age, and i was always head of my classes in reading comprehension/interest in literature.

>> No.689987

>>689976

Plebeian.

>> No.689989

>>689948

She's not from America is she?

>> No.690000
File: 19 KB, 263x393, Behind_the_Paint.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
690000

>> No.690002

Siddhartha by Herman Hesse.

>> No.690011

All of Shel Silverstein's works.

>> No.690013

>>689965

Pupil is still the most accurate word. Of course you can call student and pupil synonyms, but when you examine the exact meaning of both words you find that they cannot always apply to the same group of people.

>> No.690019
File: 626 KB, 2204x3000, Malcolm_X_NYWTS.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
690019

Autobiography of Malcolm X!

>> No.690022
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690022

>>689989
oh fuck off. Just because we have a vocal lobby of evangelical nutcases doesn't mean that everyone is so repressed.

>> No.690025

>>689832
>Stranger In A Strange Land
>Worth reading
Haha, are you drunk?
Terrible book, cardboard characterisation, poorly written, and mary-sues all around.
Absolute trash.

>> No.690026

>>690019

lol enjoy your black islamic fundamentalism.

>> No.690027

>>689783

Obviously the necronomicon.

>> No.690036

The complete works of Ann Coulter.

>> No.690038

The Turner Diaries
Protocols of the Elders of Zion

>> No.690043

Off the top of my head:

The Outsiders
Johnny Tremain
Animal Farm

>> No.690045

Ulysses

>> No.690053

Philip Pullman His Dark Materials Trilogy. YA fantasy. I don't know if that's typically assigned or not, but I mean, it's good.

>> No.690057

For comic books- Recommend Maus and Blankets.

Pelase please please. I would have loved to read those books in 6th/7th grade.

>> No.690060

The Dark Knight returns
Scud: The Disposable assassin.

>> No.690062

>>689808
>>689808
i read that in middle school...wouldn't recommend it. O_O

i second markus zusak, and looking for alaska. make sure she has the entire harry potter series, because as much as we poke fun at the books, they are actually well-written and really captivate young imaginations. the house of the scorpion by nancy farmer is also a good choice. there's a boy in the girl's bathroom by louis sacher would be a nice selection. it's somewhat simplistic but it's very candid and honest and describes exactly what it feels like be the troublemaker in the classroom. the chronicles of narnia would also be a good choice because i always found them interesting and enjoyable and never realized the allegory until years later.

what kind of classroom is it? is it american? is rural or urban? rich or poor? because honestly, the way to make kids life long readers is to give them books that they feel they can relate to.

>> No.690064

>>690057
>Holocaust Book
>Coming of age story where nothing happens

But she wants things that normally don't get assigned.

>> No.690077

Looking For Alaska
American Born Chinese
Accidents of Nature
Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian
Winesburg, Ohio
Solanin

Too wholesome maybe? I think that they address some serious issues reasonably well and are fun to read.

Second Ulysses.

>> No.690083

>>690057

>Maus
She's already got that one.

>Blankets
notsureifwant.jpg

>> No.690088

>>690062

Not American, urban and middle/upper-mid.dle class

>> No.690103

Markus Zusak is shallow and manipulative.

>> No.690104

Some books that I think are extremely important:

Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass is not a hard read, and is definitely the kind of book that will have an impact on students.

Henry David Thoreau's Walden is a harder read, but is also very influential. Though Leaves of Grass is more general, in my opinion at least, Walden is more powerful.

>> No.690110

"The Man Who Was Thursday" by G.K. Chesterton.

>> No.690119

Nothing with a passage that assholes can turn into a yearbook quote to look deep.

>> No.690121

>>690002
I second this whole heartedly. Also, I'm very surprised that nobody had recommend Vonnegut yet, especially considering that the teacher has an anti-authority streak. Slaughterhouse 5 sounds perfect, both in terms of reading level and in terms of theme.

>> No.690130

>>689800

>"Markus Zusak"

HA! What a FAG!

>> No.690131

>>690121
>teacher
>government employee
>anti-authority

whatthefuckamireading.jpg

>> No.690133

>>690121

See >>689867

>> No.690136

Canticle for Leibowitz

>> No.690147

>>690131

>Not in the US
>probably private school

>> No.690153

>6th and 7th graders
>6th and 7th graders
>6th and 7th graders
>6th and 7th graders
Christ, the majority of anons must have skipped over this part. Books filled with existential crises, drugs, and questions on sexual identity for kids right out of elementary school? OP, stick with the classics. The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Flies, 1984, Animal Farm, The Giver, The Outsiders, and Edgar Allen Poe. Nothing extremely deep.

>> No.690160

>>690153
I disagree with 1984, ti's too hard I think, but yes, most people are recommending much too difficult books.

>> No.690163

>>690153

You're giving classics when she ask for atypical books.

>> No.690170

Tell the little bastards to buy their own books and stop wasting my tax dollars.

>> No.690179

Zusak is a terrible writer.

>> No.690189

ITT: People recommending books that they could have never read at this age in order to sound intelligent.

Now let us try some books we actually read at this age.

The Tales of The Madmen Underground
A Series Of Unfortunate Events
The Tale of Desperaux: Being the Story of a Mouse, a Princess, Some Soup, and a Spool of Thread
Artemis Fowl
Animorphs
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
The Little Prince (I imagine your friend would like this book)
The Outsiders
Rumble Fish

Add that to the rest of the overly intellectual bullshit and you should have a good list, OP.

>> No.690199

>>690189
I loved The Little Prince, Animorphs and Artemis Fowl. Listen to this man (or woman)

>> No.690202

The Dark Tower series by Stephen King

>> No.690206
File: 72 KB, 565x745, 1269238689354.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
690206

Animal Farm
Brave New World
Fahrenheit 451
1984
Starship Troopers
A shitload of Bradbury and Asimov

I read all of those before high school and understood them easily.

Sherlock Holmes is always good.

Vampire bullshit is all the rage so why not have them read Dracula?

>>690136

lol. I read that in 8th or 9th grade and enjoyed it very much, but OP should be aware of the sexual content.

>> No.690208

charlie and the chocolate factory

and then there was some book about mice in new york city or something but i forget the name

>> No.690213

oh and "island of the blue dolphins"

>> No.690215

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll try to narrow it down before sending her a list. Keep the suggestions coming though!

>> No.690221

>>690189
By the time I was 11, I was deep into the Four Great Classical Novels of China (specifically Lo Kuan-chung's Romance of the Three Kingdoms.) Trust me, they can handle the books mentioned here.

>> No.690226

>>690221
>implying china has classics

>> No.690236

>>690221
Some of them can, but that's not exactly the majority. We're not recommending books for the one precocious kid in the corner, we're recommending them for the entire class.

>> No.690237

I had a huge boner for Tolkien's books around that age.

>> No.690241

That's a great age for some classic SF. My personal favourites at the time were the Foundation and Dune series; they're both large-scale epics with big ideas, which is great for getting kids thinking. Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead would also be good, although I guess they're a bit more typical YA material.

Sherlock Holmes was another favourite of mine. It's nice because the individual stories are fairly short, so you can read them in a single sitting. One of the illustrated collections would be really good for a classroom.

Job: A Comedy of Justice also comes to mind; it combines a fun adventure story with a fairly sophisticated satire of religion (it may require some amount of Biblical knowledge to fully appreciate; it's been a while since I read it so I don't remember how much of the background is explained in the text).


>>690104
I'll definitely second Walden; most kids won't read it, but those that do will get a lot out of it. It was recommended to me by a dermatologist I visited when I was 14 (it's funny how things like that happen) and I think I can confidently say that it changed my life.

>> No.690243

we should save this list somehow, the way we do with like the recommended sci-fi book list and shit.

>> No.690244

Number the Stars, The Giver, A Solitary Blue.
Those were books I read in school in the sixth grade, I think. I didn't read much outside of school at that point, so.

>> No.690250

I had a friend in grade 6 who was really obsessed with the Odyssey at that age. I didn't read it until much later, but it's definitely a fun story (and it has a good amount of violence to keep the kids interesting).

>> No.690257

If she doesn't show a movie of one of the books or take her class to a play or something at the end of the quarter, she is a boring teacher

hell, if they read Howl's Moving Castle, it can be animu... read Bradbury and it can be an episode of The Outer Limits or something

>> No.690266

>>689934
>Ray Bradbury.

Specifically, Something Wicked This Way Comes.

>> No.690272

>>690226
I think picking up Journey to the West might change your opinion.

>>690236
I'm sure that every one of them would have the ability to read the books mentioned here, except for Ulysses and the other jokes. I would have been happier reading Walden as I mentioned earlier when I was in middle school instead of later in life.

>> No.690274

>>690241
>>690104
Really? Walden? For 6th graders?

>> No.690275

A Wrinkle in Time

>> No.690279

>>690272
Walden's more of a 9th/10th grader book. They'll find it extremely boring and hard to understand at any age younger that that.

>> No.690289

>>690274
If the teacher reads it analytically with them, then I don't see why not. The archaic syntax would trouble the students alone, and they would be introduced to new, radical ideas. Would the students be assigned to read the books alone, or would they be read by a teacher and explained? Or would it go on a book-by-book basis?

>> No.690295

>>689934
Honestly, they should start with the Giver or Orwell, maybe Flowers for Algernon, before they get into Bradbury. Bradbury's lighter than Dick, but it's still relatively difficult.

>> No.690296

>>690274
>>690279

Yeah, you guys might have a point. I was thinking that I was only a year or two older than them when I read Walden, but I guess those are pretty crucial years.

>> No.690308

>>690289
>would they be read by a teacher and explained
I've never had a teacher that didn't just assign books after elementary school. And, even if it was read by the teacher, it would take him a hell of a long time to explain the meanings of all the words.

>> No.690313

you should include some feminist lit, OP, idiotic 4chan misogyny aside. that is the age where gender identity really becomes cemented, girls realize the only way to be recognized is for their bodies, boys realize have feelings makes them gay, all parties realize gay is bad, etc.

>> No.690315

>>690296
The crucial years is why these books should be read at this time. By age 11, these students should be past concrete operational stage to formal operational stage, and thus can process abstract ideas as opposed to ones based solely on experience. So 6th and 7th graders are ideal for this kind of book, since they are able to now use reasoning skills to think independently. What better to show them cognitive independence than Walden?

>> No.690320
File: 4 KB, 188x212, kerm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
690320

>>690295

>She wants stuff that...wouldn't usually be assigned by the average teacher.
>Giver
>Orwell
>Flowers For Algernon
>Bradbury

>> No.690321

>>690289

Books that fit with the themes in the OP pic will probably get included in lessons, the rest will be for the student's private reading.

>> No.690324

>>690308
They generally are replaced by Socratic seminars, but I definitely had a high level of discussion and explanation by teachers through high school even.

>> No.690444

>>690315

No one in this thread has ever tried to teach middle schoolers, have they?

I read Black Beauty when I was about 7 or 8. Could I read it? Yes. Could I understand it worth a damn? No.
YA books are good for YA, otherwise they really wouldn't be considered YA books, would they?

Honestly, you guys need to take a good hard look at yourselves and consider what was going on when you were 11/12/13. If you had been given some of the books on this list then, as opposed to when you read them, do you think you'd understand them as well? Or have as much appreciation for them?
It sure sounds great to say that you read Walden when you were 12, but does that mean you understood it? No.

There is a huge difference, developmentally, between 10th graders and 7th graders. It's more than just three years worth. And because students/pupils/schoolchildren develop at crazy different rates during these middle school years, you have to keep in mind that the ability level and comprehension potential is probably much wider than the several years before or after.

>> No.690449

Make sure you have Redwall.

>> No.690488

>>690313

Further to this suggestion, Angela Carter's 'The Bloody Chamber' would be perfect.

>> No.690501

>>690077

Solanin was depressing as fuck, and I don't think it's quite suitable for this age group.

>> No.690507

Animal Farm really helps kids with understanding how metaphors/allusions work since its a pretty easily understood meaning, and pretty easy to teach.
For fantasy, possibly the Hobbit.

>> No.690534

>>690444
As I said before, 11 is the age at which students enter formal operational stage. Thus they have the ability to understand complex, abstract ideas and come to conclusions. However, because they are capable of those things does not mean that they will readily use it. Perhaps it's because they don't yet know the importance of it, or perhaps it's because people say that they're just 11/12/13 year olds who cannot appreciate or understand pieces of literature. 10th graders, 7th graders (at least most should, beside perhaps a very, very late bloomer), and adults are all in the same stage of cognitive development.

>> No.690615
File: 52 KB, 280x475, Small gods.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
690615

Well, Terry Pratchett isn't usually assigned to students.

Why not Small Gods?

>> No.690659

Stargirl. Read it in 7th grade and cried a tiny bit. Actually, anything by Spinelli.

>> No.690682

Shoplifting from American Apparel by Tao Lin

>> No.690702
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690702

>> No.690716

>>690534

Stop throwing around your fucking genetic psychology, pal. You can't guarantee that this type of challenge will be something constructive to THE MAJORITY of the class.

I'm pretty sure it worked really well for those swiss kids back in the '20s with the tiny classes and the lower level of demand we have today. But with America's known problems of the middle student group, leveling down a reading comprehension of a class is something advisable to do.

With that said, I'd go with >>690153, especially in regards to Animal Farm and Poe. You need atypical themes for that age group, not necessarily atypical authors.

In my opinion, that is a damn great age to start on Shakespeare (Hamlet, Othello, other tragedies apart from Romeo & Juliet if they can handle something deeper) and other classics from its time. Hell, even Paradise Lost with a more critical approach would be kinda awesome. Hell, I've read Divine Comedy (abridged, that's true) and Picture of Dorian Gray at that age and understood well enough without help. The important thing to develop the taste for reading is showing good classics (which they'll know from experience that "it's good to have read them") and letting them find out that they're not as complicated as one would expect, or that the teacher actually believes they have some sort of intelligence to read them well enough.

>> No.690807

1984 is way too hard for 6-8th graders. Animal Farm is maybe okay, but definitely not 1984. i would second Bradbury and Asimov but not Herbert: his prose is quite dense and stylistically unusual. definitely Poe, i ate that shit up at that age.

i would actually recommend Dumas; while his stuff tends to be long, it's easy reading, full of action and suspense, and straightforward theme-wise.

>> No.691844

>>690807

I read Animal Farm, Brave New World, and 1984 before high school, brah, and that was on my own. I'm sure I would have gotten more out of them with a trained teacher's guidance.

I agree with you about Dune, though, I think that would be too hard.

>> No.691911

The Westing Game
The Dark Is Rising

JOHN BELLAIRS - seriously, get John Bellairs, they are awesome and incredibly well-written for children's books, some of the best descriptions I've ever seen. Kind of horror-y. Crazy good.

>> No.691938

At that age I read
Michael Crichton
John Grisham
Gordon Korman
Calvin and Hobbes

Also school forced to read:
Robert C. O'Brien
- Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH
Anne Holm
- I Am David
Jack London
- Call of the Wild

>> No.691943

Ender's Game

>> No.691946

>Blanks out name
>Leaves Liz

>> No.691950

>>691844
1984 is one of 2 books that ruined my life. I wouldn't recommend that for anyone.

>> No.691959

>>691950
Something is massively wrong with you.

>> No.691963

Tomorrow, when the war began.

>> No.691971

The Girl who owned a city

Blew my mind when I was in 5th grade (enriched). Will please a lot of you fags too because apparently the author loved Ayn Rand and it's considered a great 'intro' to libertarianism. I just thought it was a great premise (all adults are dead, kids left to deal with society) think Lord of the Flies in a city.

>> No.692303

Isaac Asimov's Foundation series. I started reading it at about that age and once I finished, I was considerably more adult. I grew up so much during those few months.

>> No.692325

Euclid's The Elements
Sartre's Being and Nothingness
Hofstadter's Godel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid.

>> No.692410

Autobiography of a Yogi

>>689800
Shut the fuck up.

>> No.692538

Ender's Game
The Count of Monte Cristo
The Dark Flight Down
Inventing Elliot
Specimen Days
(Comics) Runaways

>> No.692544

>>691950

You're a pussy. Go read Lolita to toughen your mind.

>> No.692549

I enjoyed the book "Foot soldier" and because we are Canadians, i don't know how PG the books are for these kids, but i read them at about 14 years old. They'd fall under history/memoir. Personally i find that exposing memoir style books about war in particular really gives people a respect and connection to what their reading.

>> No.692562

The Golden Compass series

>> No.692594

>>690807
here
>>691844

i also read Animal Farm and 1984 in middle school, in an English class. i could understand the prose but the themes - other than "facism is bad" - went way over my head. i got much, much more out of them as an adult when i understood their socio-political and cultural contexts. i was mostly just fascinated by the sex. i think 1984 was the first book i read with sex in it, actually.

>> No.692614

Who Will Run the Frog Hospital, by Lorrie Moore
Perks of being a Wallflower, Chbosky
The Basic EIght, Daniel Handler
Lowboy, John Wray
Young Torless, Robert Musil

>> No.693817

>>690716
Stop throwing around facts that are detrimental to your argument, you mean? You can't guarantee that any challenge will be a guarantee to be constructive to the majority. However, we can determine that the majority possess the capability to meet the challenge. Also, you're set against the idea of a book that teaches unorthodox themes that these students MIGHT not understand, but instead propose the likes of an author who writes in heavy allegory of things that a middle schooler has not been taught and an author who uses Early Modern English that would be impossible for a middle schooler to know, among others? And you readily admit that at the age you understood Dante and Oscar Wilde, but others at that age can't understand Thoreau? There is nothing in particular that's difficult about Walden, other than it offers a different perspective on the world than what we're generally given, and would challenge these students to think for themselves.

>> No.693876

>>693817

I don't completely disagree with your propositions, pal. I just hate to see a biased argument, since there is a obvious cognitive development difference between 7th graders, 10th graders and adults. You would do better using a proper cognitive argument to try to back this up, since genetic psychology clearly is flawed at that. I'll just mention post-formal development and leave it at that, because I'm sure you'll understand.

With that said, I think we'd get to an understanding if I'd reword my proposal: the middle school age is proper to come in contact with such themes. But don't go around expecting full comprehension of the themes in Walden, together with its cultural baggage, of a 11-12 year old (which is something that a lot of people in this thread were able to do at that age, and therefore would find it perfectly reasonable. I'm not even going to dwell into other societies, I'm keeping it to America, since we all are).

Classics, who are known for dealing with a certain theme important to society's skill in a traditional or rather normative manner, are more suited to what the teacher intends to do. A deconstruction of the themes made by the teacher's hand is much more effective than by the author's, at that age. Of course, that would imply more work from her than to just throw a ready-to-go book at them and confirm/deny their findings.

>> No.693897

>>693876
I don't see an obvious difference in cognitive development. Knowledge, wisdom, "maturity," yes there is an obvious difference. But middle schoolers possess the ability to comprehend and think independently, even if they do not use it as an adult would. What I'm getting at is they have the ability to perform the task of reading and analyzing the mentioned books. And yes, cultural baggage is a huge part that goes into it and something that I have overlooked. A middle schooler is still ignorant of the impact a book like Walden has on societal beliefs because he or she is ignorant of society. But the themes of classics are often dealing with forgone societal themes, so I'm not sure how relevant that is either.

>> No.693941

A Separate Piece, One Flew over Cuckoo's Nest

>> No.693964

Borders has this section for young adults where loads of classics exist. I was there today buying some (despite the fact I am far past being 'young adult').
-Treasure Island
-Egyptian Mythology, Norse Mythology, Greek mythology (there are young adult versions)
-Wundering Heights
-Sherlock Holmes
-Little Women
-Grimm Fairy tales
-Alice in wonderland
-Frankenstein
-Dracula
etc. Go check your Borders

>> No.693978

>>693897

Since we both believe in middle schooler's capacity of analyzing a book in its themes (with needed help if you want them to stick to the author's viewing or propose a deconstruction of it, in my case), it comes down to our personal choices and course of actions at this point.

I just wouldn't recommend certain book known for its level of societal complexity to a group whose majority will simply not get it unless they're properly guided, being with the constructing a concept or deconstruction of it. The teacher's choice is a bold one for starters, and using a complex book to deconstruct its idea even further might cause some serious mindfucks in the majority of the class, which could surely amount to negative consequences for her sake (in most schools). I know it's been said her school is quite unorthodox, but it's not exactly wise to keep on poking on those parental limits and morals all around. If one single book within a complementary biography might cause a shitstorm, a whole course of books in this vein would make for an unsightly view in those PTA meetings.

But hey, my opinion. I'm glad to have went through this with you without the usual colossal shitstorm that this could create in my regular academic environment, pal.

>> No.693985

>>693964

Shiiiit no one mentioned these until now. Some of these would be awesome, even though they'd take the whole Dante's Inferno approach to it.

>> No.694000

I think difficult books ought to be available for the more-advanced students (like, I'm guessing, most of the people in this thread were since we are now discussing literature with strangers), even if the majority of the class can't handle them. I was bored to tears with what I was assigned in fifth and sixth grade (and throughout high school, but that's another story).
That being said, I recommend:
Something Wicked This Way Comes - Ray Bradbury
(satisfies the coming-of-age bit she wanted)
Lord of the Flies - William Golding
(crises in democracy, as she requested)
Animal Farm - George Orwell
(again, crises in democracy)

>> No.694053

Most of the people here are kind of idiots when it comes to reading books as children.
My idea:
Anything by Neal Shusterman
the Eragon Series
ANYTHING from The Great Illistrated Classics; you have no idea how much that series has gotten me into reading, maybe it'll help the people who just won't read.
The Golden Compass
A Wrinkle in Time

I'm in Highschool and no one that I know reads those sorts of books "for fun", and the few people who I see that are reading books are books that are nothing complex.

>> No.694073

>>693978
True, while I find mindfucks to be quite enjoyable, many parents would not. But that proposes another problem, since nearly every book but the generally accepted feel-good novels would raise the concern of some parents.

>> No.694134

>>694073

That's why, in my opinion, a regular classic (up to modern, I'd think) wouldn't pose such a problem, since parents usually deem these books as "safe", and unless she was being really off-the-charts with her theme exposition, the kid's talks of her class to her parents would be understood as, at the very least, interesting to the children.

Classics could also help with the problem mentioned by >>694053, giving them an opportunity to come across these without a previous interest in literature and maybe even sparking that interest alive.

A possible problem would be, in later grades, to transition them into contemporary literature without needing the teacher's hand to guide them through a basic comprehension, or even creating interest of worthy literature of this time instead of having them deem everything on a low enough level to not deserve any interest of them (insert your Twilight/Gamer Girl rambling here and only here) and sticking to classics, since they already "work" so well to their needs. But I guess that with the proper handling of these sorts of problems from that school's teachers of the matter, it could be very well expected to have high-level readers at mid-high school with good comprehension and critic skills.

>> No.694148

>>694000

This. You still can't forget those who can handle them.

>> No.694172

>>694053

>The Great Illustrated classics

Oh my, this times one million.

I loved these books as a kid.

>> No.694185

>>694172
Of the two family members that read those (me and my brother), we are the only children in the family who actually reads for fun.
I loved Cont of Monty Crisco and 20,000 Leages Under the Sea. He loved White Fang (relevent I know).

Also, don't under any circumstantces get The Wizard of Oz, that book will creep you out as a kid.

>> No.694242

>>694185

>Cont of Monty Crisco

>> No.694245

>>694242
I can't spell and I don't want to switch browsers to get a spell checker.