Help me Believe

[Anonymous No.6896815]

So i have a friend who just walked the camino and towards the end of the pilgrimage he broke down and wept in reverence for god. I feel like i havent felt an emotion that pure in my life, i feel as an unenthusiastic atheist my life is extremely superficial and lacking of real meaning, i basically want to give myself up to a higher being, to have something to believe in, to anchor me against the torrents of superficiality, i want to weep like aloysha following the death of father zosima, i want to be held by god and shielded the tempestuous abyss, something to give me meaning under the endless pit of the skydome.


basically i want some writers who will help change my perspective, and allow me to believe, because right now it just seems like nonsense, used to con children and the gullible, mostly ive only got gene wolfe and dostoevsky so far, who else?

[Anonymous No.6896932]

Since you already have Wolfe and Dostoevsky, go with St. Augustine, Aristotle, Kierkegaard, Dante, Aquinas.
It is necessary to stop being reductionistic in your worldview and start seeing the more in a poetic way instead of pure materialism.

[Anonymous No.6897339]

>>6896815
You're already quite religious, OP, so just go forth and find the approach that works for you. Atheists don't experience the angst and desires you're describing.

[Anonymous No.6897359]

>>6896815
>i basically want to give myself up to a higher being, to have something to believe in, to anchor me against the torrents of superficiality

This is actually the height of superficiality. I can't think of anything that's more superficial than belief on demand.

Why don't you just accept that different people have different ways of viewing the world, instead of demanding what happens to be popular at the moment?

[Anonymous No.6897383]

>>6896815

> i feel as an unenthusiastic atheist my life is extremely superficial and lacking of real meaning, i basically want to give myself up to a higher being, to have something to believe in, to anchor me against the torrents of superficiality

Sounds like you want to bottom for Christ

[Anonymous No.6897415]

Christposters: fuck off

[Anonymous No.6897457]

I became a Catholic rike three months ago and I can't stop believing in God. I stopped watching tv and I don't spend much time on 4chan anymore.

Here's how I did it.

-Remember the average person doesn't believe in God. If you try and believe in God for 5 minutes every day you're already trying more than the average person

-Don't force yourself to believe. Commit to spending 5 minutes a day trying. I swear after three days you'll feel like believingmore and after a month or so you should be believing all day every day with pleasure

-Believe in different Gods at the same time. When my faith starts to ebb in the Catholic God I grab another and switch. This should refresh your head. Keep them thematically different. I try believing in Hinduism and Islam.

-It isn't a race. Believing slowly won't make you sleepy that fast. Try to acknowledge what things about God are for you to believe fast and which aren't.

-Buy the physical copies of the Bible. When you get the books from your own money you'll feel the need to read them to avoid the feel of wasting your money.

-Start with passages highly discussed in your local prayer group so you feel motivated to discuss.

[Anonymous No.6897672]

>>6897359
i dont mean popular culture, i mean just a spiritually devoid society, i feel like its superficial because its centralised around what is physical


i think im looking to religion right now for 2 reasons

1. im becoming increasingly unstable and slightly paranoid, i dont trust my government, im completely disheartened with society, im not sure i have a future,i dont belong to any ideologies, so i feel like i need something to anchor me, something i can be certain about in a world of uncertainty, an ally if you like in god


2. i feel like the idea of religion is beautiful and i want to believe in it, i want to become enraptured in its embrace and brought into the fold, i think its comforting, only my logical mind tells me its bullshit, its essentially cognitive dissonance, but im okay with that because you cant win every battle and i feel like it would be greatly beneficial to my life

[Anonymous No.6897689]

God is unfalsifiable OP, always remember that :)

[Anonymous No.6897721]

Pretend to believe and you'll believe.

Do the pilgrimage, pray at night, perform rituals, change your language in everyday life. It's that easy, you'll feel it too.

ex-non-religious fag here

[Anonymous No.6897722]

>>6897689
i sometimes thing theres no "scientific" evidence for a deity because something supernatural would fall outside the realms of scientific detection, so it requires another leap of faith to assume that scientific material world is the only one that exists

i know, occams razor, but then thats another leap of faith to assume that occams razor is right, basically you have to take a leap of faith to believe anything, which is why im increasingly unsure of everything leading to some kind of existential emptiness, which is why i think i need religion, to be sure of something, even if i dont think its possible

[Anonymous No.6897733]

>>6897359
>Why don't you just accept that different people have different ways of viewing the world
as if how one looks at the world is out of your control and forever the same

[Anonymous No.6897734]

>>6896815
Is it really a good thing to make such massive changes to your behavior, identity and beliefs passed on emotion? Emotion is usually fleeting, and indicates internal yearning rather than the external state of the world. It is generally accepted that making choices when angry or horny is a bad idea, same with drugs - can't you see how the joy of religious ecstasy can similarly mislead people?

It seems like you want belief in God because you want a feeling of security; just like kids love police officers because the world seems scary to them and police make them feel safe. However, as we grow older, we learn that the world is not black and white, and police can be just as bad as the criminals they argue against. Likewise, while religion can inspire people to charity and social consciousness, the kind of authoritarianism and in-group mentality that religions provide can lead to people making choices that they otherwise feel are intuitively immoral, like dehumanizing other religions or gay people.

I'm not saying being religious is bad, but the fact that you want to confirm a change in perspective that you desire, instead of reading conflicting material to reach a decision, is a warning bell to me. Are your motives really in the service of an entity like god, or for yourself? It seems like the latter.

[Anonymous No.6897745]

>>6897722
Accept the nothingness fella, nothing bad about nothing. Read Mindfulness in Plain English, Lucretius' On the Nature of Things, and Meditations by Marcus Aerio for a existential acceptance kit.

[Anonymous No.6897758]

>>6897733
>as if how one looks at the world is out of your control and forever the same

Tu quoque

[Anonymous No.6897764]

>>6896815
You are alienated and want something that can fill the emptiness you feel, and religion, or theistic belief at the least, seems to provide a remedy that is easily accessible. Turning to belief in this state, however, is itself a kind of idolatry and contrary to that very belief. To put it simply, it lacks "authenticity".

There's no easy answer to your inner turmoil, but there is a way to understand it and to solve it. Communism.

[Anonymous No.6897790]

>>6897764
im a communist in theory, but im also a realist, i dont think it'll every be implemented properly be properly implemented, i think people are intrinsically greedy and selfish, or atleast enough are this way to create a society that conditions others to behave in a similar way


i think thats another source of anxiety, im a massive idealist but at the same time im kind of a realist, maybe iran shouldnt be doing nuclear science, maybe the government needs to conduct mass surveillance, maybe the state has been good to me, does this make me a selfish and greedy person, maybe


atleast i know im not a buddhist

[Anonymous No.6897802]

>>6897734
yeah thats a good point, i dont know what i can say in response, thanks for the food for thought

>>6897764
also the authenticity issue, i dont know if "god" would care about authenticity, under his doctrine acts of kindness take place in return for a reward in the spiritual afterlife, if he cared about authenticity then it would be only atheists who went to heaven because they are kind solely to be kind and expect no reward

[Anonymous No.6897820]

>>6896815
>>6897745
read these and nothing else if you want to be a massive pleb.

start with the fuckin greeks

[Anonymous No.6897838]

>>6897820
m8 that was a starter pack you walking meme; besides I doubt learning Hesiod's farming techniques is going to help with his existential crisis.

[Anonymous No.6897957]

>>6897790
I think if you read some Communist writing you'd actually find some of these problems dispelled. Try specifically Engels' Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, a fairly short book that goes over the important difference socialism based on utopian ideals and socialism based on materialistic analysis. There can be no metaphysical solutions to the mishappenings of individuals and societies.

>>6897802
>also the authenticity issue, i dont know if "god" would care about authenticity, under his doctrine acts of kindness take place in return for a reward in the spiritual afterlife, if he cared about authenticity then it would be only atheists who went to heaven because they are kind solely to be kind and expect no reward
The problem isn't lack of authenticity qua lack of authenticity. Turning to God out of emptiness is the propping of some idol in hopes that it will remove the emptiness; you merely cover the problem and hope to forget about it. This God will always be an abyssal well you cry into, and you will never not quite convince yourself the echo is "someone else", but you will try to convince yourself and others.

[Anonymous No.6897977]

>>6897802

In fact, a consistent monotheism must allow for the righteous atheist to receive Heavenly reward. Who is worthy of it: the one that believes and does evil, or the one that doesn't believe but does good? The religious may perform acrobatics to justify the first but it betrays the entire project. The latter also betrays the project, but it is at least tenable with the idea of a singular, all-knowing divinity. The very nature of monotheism is the inter-connectedness of all things and the sacredness of both the being of those things and this inter-connectedness itself. So, all those who wish to truly be close to God -- not the idea floating in the aether but the real presence -- abandon your prayers, your beads, and your incense; let your icons collect dust and your scriptures mold; let all the World be your Masjid and Life itself be your Church.

We were all brought into this world against our will, but our conditions as slaves is artificially imposed on us. Your various states and governments, your markets and class societies are all perversions masked as necessity and your various Churches do nothing but court the power they grant. They try to hold monopoly on the commodity of self-consciousness and salvation, but those are not commodities to be given. Learn how they bind you to the Gods they worship -- whether they call them God, capital, or power -- and build a society that buries these monstrosities, and that will free yourself and the future generations from what you feel now.

[Anonymous No.6897996]

>>6897383
underrated post

[Anonymous No.6898002]

i have a friend who through-hiked the appalachian trail and he did not weep

[Anonymous No.6898021]

>>6897722
>>6897722
it doesn't take a leap of faith to not take a leap of faith; that's just bullshit
by believing in science and abstaining from any erroneous beliefs without further evidence I'm not making a leap of faith that there isn't more, I'm waiting where I am until there is .. and if there isn't then I'm staying where I am

if a god wanted to manifest he could, otherwise he can fuck off since I've no reason to make leaps of faith towards him otherwise

[Anonymous No.6898052]

>>6896932
Read these yes, but also read some mysticism.
Read Seven Storey Mountain, Meister Eckhart's writings, and the Philokalia. I'd suggest reading Kierkegaard with these, as his ideas lend themselves to mysticism pretty well.

[Anonymous No.6898058]

>>6897415
>thread asking for Christian literature
>lol fuk off

>>6897457
what

[Anonymous No.6898073]

>>6898021
But you're taking a very large leap of faith to assume that the world exists objectively as you view it and that if the objective world exists at all you are able to perceive it correctly.

[Anonymous No.6898077]

>>6897734
>intuitively immoral
citation needed

[Anonymous No.6898081]

>>6896815
You are some kind of moron aren't you OP

[Anonymous No.6898099]

>>6898073
>But you're taking a very large leap of faith to assume that the world exists objectively as you view it

A leap from where?

[Anonymous No.6898100]

>>6898073
no, that isn't a leap of faith; if the world is subjective (whatever the fuck that even means), the only thing I can know (and the only thing I ever have any reason to believe) is my subjective view
and if all conflict is actually what arises out of subjective views clashing (which is making the leap of faith that the universe centers around us, in which case, what the fuck is wrong with God?) then we're doomed from the very beginning

I'm not making any leaps of faith, that's bullshit

[Anonymous No.6898107]

>>6897359
Best post in thread
This this this
Want a force to spread your cheeks for and be penetrated by?
This post

[Anonymous No.6898116]

>>6897457
8/10

[Anonymous No.6898147]

>>6898099
not the guy you responded to, but it is foolish to assume our five senses and ability to think can perceive the whole of truth, or existence.

[Anonymous No.6898163]

>>6898147
it is foolish to blindly accept ideas that are inherited from people who had only their fives senses and ability to think

at least science is constantly revised to conform to our flawed senses and ability to think

[Anonymous No.6898169]

>>6898147
are you implying there's some unknown sixth sense or something of the sort? are you aware of the electromagnetic spectrum? do you know what a sense is?
all discussions on /lit/ seem to be just semantic quasi-/sci/ discussions

[Anonymous No.6898173]

>>6898147

And what is this based on? If we can't trust them, what is the better alternative?

[Anonymous No.6898174]

>>6898163
Not the guy you're replying to, but you do have to assume objectivity for it all to work. Not saying that's a bad thing though

[Anonymous No.6898187]

>>6898174
the only assumption is the physical replicability of the science. what is physically replicable about religion?

[Anonymous No.6898200]

frontal lobotomy would help tbh

[Anonymous No.6898201]

>>6898187
I'm not the guy you think you're replying to; all I'm saying is that for science to work we need to assume that what we commonly percieve is real.

[Anonymous No.6898208]

>>6897359
This.
OP needs to examine himself more rigorously.
It's disappointing to see people assume that an exoteric foray into modern religion - which has largely been mutilated of all true religiosity - can ease the void for the sacred left by a secularization that actively dismantles any idea and sentiment of the sacred.

God is in, of, and beyond everything. Nature is His/Her greatest sacred text. Man is a part of nature. You reach out to the divine by seeing it in everything, seeking out solitude, understanding virtue, contemplating what it would mean for these things to be true. You need insight, and without it putting together a backlog of writers who are supposed to "help you believe" isn't going to do jack shit. People lack fucking discernment.

[Anonymous No.6898224]

>>6898201
it would be foolish to do otherwise since our perception is literally the only thing we have

if we accept that the physical world and our perceptions of it are unreal then what is there? an eternal concept beyond our understanding? when we have no ability to perceive it and must believe in it with our admittedly flawed minds?

[Anonymous No.6898241]

>>6898224
>it would be foolish to do otherwise since our perception is literally the only thing we have
welcome to Cartesian skepticism

[Anonymous No.6898244]

>>6898208
>Nature is His/Her greatest sacred text.
>His/Her
this triggers me anon, stop it

[Anonymous No.6898303]

>>6898201
I honestly don't understand these kinds of discussions; as opposed to what, not real? Is what is not real, real? What else could it be? If you can't know what is unreal, then I've no reason to ever think anything is anything but real. What even is unreal? I can't comprehend these discussions and I really doubt anybody else can, simply because nobody can know what isn't real or even what that implies, or what?

why not just go to /sci/ and discuss what your subjective perception knows to be true

[Anonymous No.6898314]

>>6898303
Welcome to philosophy tbh

[Anonymous No.6898591]

>>6898100
You're making the leap of faith that that is not the case.

[Anonymous No.6899338]

>>6897672
1. Just realize that every society has been completely certain of it's imminent demise since the earliest stone age. Fatalism in regards to government and society is actually a component of it. As far as governments go, remember, your taxes may be too high, but three hundred years ago (almost nothing speaking in relative terms) the primary form of government throughout the world was just a dude who could do whatever he wanted.

2. I think religion is a beautiful thing, I live near one of the oldest cathedrals in the United states and attend mass there, I know the congregation, I find faith a very beautiful thing. I think hymns are poetic and dig ecclesiastical art. I am not, however, a believer in Christ as a savior, and I find the existence of god dubious. You can have your cake and eat it too. It is the nature of faith that no one can convince you either way, hence faith, don't push it.

My recommendation. become politically active, turn your fatalism into advocacy, (posting on facebook or /pol/ doesn't count) and spend time exploring not the idea of faith, but the practice, you may find that you are a believer.

[Anonymous No.6899351]

>>6897457

>-Remember the average person doesn't believe in God. If you try and believe in God for 5 minutes every day you're already trying more than the average person

mysides

[Anonymous No.6899358]

>>6896815

Ideology: The Post

[Anonymous No.6899364]

>>6896815
Welcome to the real world.
Remember ; the realisation of the absurd can only be the starting point.

[Anonymous No.6899370]

>>6899358
Zizek is a strong supporter of creating your own reality with religion though

[Anonymous No.6899419]

>>6898591
that what isn't the case? can you restate what you meant? I've been out of this thread for awhile and don't understand even after rereading my comment

[Anonymous No.6899432]

>>6899370
Incorrect.

[Anonymous No.6899510]

I've been wanting to believe in God myself. I went to Catholic school for 12 years. I've been reading Dostoevsky, and I think I love Alyosha.

Is Gene Wolfe really worth reading? Is it literature?

[Anonymous No.6899625]

>>6896815
read the qur'an—did it for me, for a while.

[Anonymous No.6899648]

>>6896815
gnosis is the answer because it will get you more questions, doubting is the best thing you can do as human, you borned for that.
Try Eliphas Levi, Hermann Hesse and Wolfang van Goethe and don't even get close to Sammael Aun Weor until you get the basics about gnosis.

[Anonymous No.6899674]

>>6899625
Replace God with GF and we have /r9k/

OP doesn't want religion he wants pleasure and is grasping at whatever straw he thinks will support his weight enough to pull his head out of his anhedonia

[Anonymous No.6899685]

>>6899674
What your suggestion then? What do you do? Personally I'm trying to become as pure as Terrence Malick.

[Anonymous No.6899698]

Am I the only person who thinks that the fact that this thread exists is incredibly depressing?
If you don't want your life to be superficial and lack meaning what do you think deliberately throwing yourself into a religion you don't really believe in is going to help?
You're going to turn into one of those stupid lesbian girls who "Tries out" all of the different religions like they are pairs of clothes. That's not the point.

Don't brainwash yourself into becoming a christian it won't make your life any more profound and having those kinds of religious experiences that you want is rare even for people who genuinely believe in the religion because they have been brainwashed to believe in it from birth.

If you want an intense spiritual experience eat some payote or mushrooms or something.
If you want your life to stop being superficial and lacking meaning then start thinking about things every once and a while jesus fuck.

Fuck everybody in this thread who is unironically trying to help this (probably underage) kid help brainwash themselves.

[Anonymous No.6899708]

>>6899698
Go watch interracial BBC porn, redditor.

[The cats No.6899747]

>>6899698
Yeah its pretty fucking retarded to let ironic trolls on 4chan brainwash you into being a cult member but you have to realize this retard is probably spending hours a day on /pol/ or the OP is insincere and it just already a christian/a shitpost because christposting is a meme.

[Anonymous No.6899753]

>>6899685
What works for me won't work for you, since you're not me and I'm not you, so if you look for you by looking at me you'll find that you've become my property

[Anonymous No.6900593]

>>6897457
i am crying