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/lit/ - Literature

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6888230 No.6888230 [Reply] [Original]

Does god fucking exist or not?

>> No.6888232

Yes, and he's a Christian God.

>> No.6888239

Yes, and he's a Christian God.

>> No.6888242

If dubs, God doesn't exist.

>> No.6888243

>>6888232
>>6888239
*kisses cross*

>> No.6888246

Nah

>> No.6888247

why don't you ask him?

>> No.6888253

>>6888230
>browsing on 4chan
>having hope

mfw

>> No.6889323

If trips God exists.

>> No.6889331

i doubt it

let me go check for you

>> No.6889333

if trips Aquinas' proofs are right

>> No.6889340

>>6889333
thank god

>> No.6889343

>>6888230
Yes God either exists or not.

>> No.6889383

i prayed to god, multiple times, to send me back in time 5 years ago to when i irrevocably fucked my life up, so i could set things straight, and he didn't listen.

so i'm guessing he's either not real, or he just hates me and wants me and my family to suffer

>> No.6889539

>raised by mother
>she was a super strict atheist Dawkins-like figure
>throughout childhood am ostracized from friends for being an obstinate atheist
>never get to partake in those stupid religious festivals
>reach adulthood
>realize that my life has no meaning without a path to follow
>find peace and divine harmony in the warmth of God
>Jesus loves me for who I am, and he forgives me for not believing him all those years
>mfw Christianity gives me a reason to live

>> No.6889544

>>6889383
You're praying for the wrong things, friend.

>> No.6889567

>>6889544
what should i pray for instead?

>> No.6889573

>>6889333
Checked.

>> No.6889583

>>6889539
>>mfw Christianity gives me a reason to live

You needed a fairy tale to give you purpose in life?

>> No.6889588

>>6889539
cool reddit arrows
only problem is, you forgot to say who you were quoting

>> No.6889606

i wouldn't mind all that much if god wasn't real

heaven not being real is what really blows

>> No.6889609

>>6889333
confirmed

>> No.6889623

go ask /x/

>> No.6889642

No, he doesn't.

Easy.

>> No.6889646
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6889646

>>6889539

>> No.6889648

No. the 'philosophical conception' of God describes a being that is logically prior to all that exists. But the laws of logic exist. So we have two possibilities:

-God is logically prior to logic itself (an incoherent statement)
-God is not logically prior to logic itself, and thus is not prior to all existence, i.e. not God at all.

There is a third possibility, really- that the universe is not governed by logic. But this is a bullet that cannot be bitten, once you accept that reality is not governed by logical laws all arguments cease to have relevance.

>> No.6889667

I believe he does but this can not be empirically demonstrated.

>> No.6889670

God is just a word, those who believe in God or not are actually not talking about anything tangible so they are all equally right or wrong, that's not the point. What you should worry about is how they articulate their vision of the cosmos into actions.

>> No.6889672

>>6889648
>muh logic is prior to everything

kek

>> No.6889679

>>6889672
can you give an example of something that is prior to logic?

>> No.6889699

>>6889567
A way to make it better as it is now.

>> No.6889703

>>6889648
well like maybe there wasnt logic but then G-d made is so

>> No.6889704

That of which we cannot speak we must pass over with silence.

>> No.6889718
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6889718

>>6888230
god exists as an existential externalised conception of absolutes in ideas, constructed and communicated through humanities perpetually evolving use of linguistics, language. Fear, Hate, Retribution, Love etc all greater ideals used as motivational tools to reform or progress of the individual as a consolidated separate and complete entity, a tool to help us understand and communicate in discourse with our selves (conception of I) and a wider environment. As hive mind goes up, individuality goes down, makes progression more streamlined for a mass or whole at the sacrifice of the individual. A duality of evolution - dialectics.

Pray to god that your own facalties are great enough to solve all problems you encounter in your life to a point of internal peace and stabilisation to enjoy the morsel of mortal time we share with one another on this plane of space and time.

>> No.6889737

Yes but not the Christian one.

>> No.6889762

>>6889648
>the 'philosophical conception' of God describes a being
this is false, so your argument is invalid

>> No.6889769

>>6888230
yes, but he is blind and kind of a jackass

>> No.6889774

>>6889762
being, idea, concept, whatever. replace it with whichever word you find acceptable, the point of the argument still holds.

>> No.6889808

>>6889679
What do you mean by prior? That concept isn't well defined (yet).

>> No.6889826
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6889826

Seems that either you're an atheist who believes in the scientific narrative of the world and thus God to you is a fantasy, an addition to it, a character that has left no trace in your life, a fantasy that puzzles you for the sole fact that people believe in it and you don't understand why and so you come with the question in mind "how can people believe in this thing from out of this world?" and naturally, all answers sound as reasonable as kids pointing to the mall Santa and telling you it's real. Or you are a christianfag raised with everyone around you blessing you and saying "thank God" and going with the family to the church and really looking at your community and talking about bible stuff when some atheist from who knows where comes all cranky complaining about your shit and you just don't get how someone can be so bitter and so blind, because the atheist can only speak in science talk of how you are stardust while you are looking at sunsets and just feeling a warm father-like presence fill you from within. Then there are the guys who are so involved in internet debates and I mean retarded levels of discussion really, that their opinion is a very complex but very confusing way to prove themselves right to themselves and so they are always winning. This includes self-proclaimed "agnostics" with kind of spiritual but extremely skeptical way of life that is really just eating information almost as if one day the answer would be made obvious on a news shared on facebook. This also includes theistic-scientists, the guys who have a phd in physics and biology but are there to tell you the world is 6 thousand years old and that evolution is a lie and that big bang is actually god's power and the rest of science laughs at them but they have real diplomas and everything, so ironically their own stupidity in trying to fit their biblical narrative into the scientific language is proof that scientific circlejerks can sway either way and that no matter how much you read about something you can really have awful stupid opinions about the world. There is also the stoner guy taking lsd dmt and huge ammounts of marijuana speaking carelessly of his own experience in vague or bizarre terms that to him is wonderful but that doesn't strike the sober boring working guy that will just think he has lost his way even if the stoner is arguing for god through the simulacra of yadda yadda and also calcified pineal gland, etc. And everyone is trying to find out what things are, what things are about, if stuff is this or that, scientists looking at microscopes all day looking at blobs and classifying them, theologists discussing if god is actuality or potentiality in this or that other levels and bringing a thousand year old small sects of people that believed god had this particular characteristic that made them against the catholic church etc. So really it's just a dance of essentialists trying to affirm themselves the best they can and actually succeeding it.

>> No.6889832
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6889832

>>6888230
The only God that exists is the "self-organizing principle"--the universal law and tendency toward order instead of chaos. Crystallization, etc.

>> No.6889837

>>6889333
Praise His name.

>> No.6889840

>>6889333
Welp, thank you Lord for confirming.

>> No.6889853
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6889853

>>6889718
I like you. Please stick around.

>> No.6889856

>>6889648

Laws of logic are partial abstractions from reality. God is the reality from which those abstractions are derived.

>> No.6889857
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6889857

>>6889832
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence

>> No.6889860

>>6889808
When I say x is logically prior to y I mean y cannot exist without x. for example, the concept of color is prior to 'red' in particular.

To claim that some thing X is prior to logic is to claim that logic cannot exist without X, and X could exist without logic. However, any set of propositions (i.e. an argument) claiming to describe a property of X (even that it exists) would fail because a thing that can exist without logic is not necessarily limited by logic.

>> No.6889867

>>6889333
Shiiieeeetttt

>> No.6889872

Watch this debate if you want to know whether god exists or not:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCBq15MaYuU&index=2&list=WL

And then decide for yourself.

You won't ever see or meet him anyway.

>> No.6889890

okay now that we've proven beyond a reasonable doubt that god exists: does heaven exist?

>> No.6889905

>>6889648
what is this shit

>> No.6889919

Sure, you can say that this world is fashioned from yourself - for without you it wouldn't exist (4 u), therefore you are the supreme creator.

Any notion of pre-existence and post-existence is meaningless if you are not aware of it.

As for a cosmic bully or omnipotent god, it surely exists but this world reflects that it isn't a good one.

>> No.6889945

I'm not narcissistic enough to say god doesn't exist, but I'm also not smart enough to say he does. I'd rather not think about god.

>> No.6889956

>>6889648
A possibility you didnt account for:
God as the logical structure of the reality
Also, the fact that logic exists independently from us is not proven in your argument

>> No.6889967

>>6889890
no everyone goes to hell
even god

>> No.6889971

>>6889648
Logic only proves how proof is so as so but it is not what comes to a priori, cuck.

>> No.6889983

>>6889956
I did think of that first thing but I dismissed it, since I don't think "logical structure" is what anyone means by god and if they did it would be pretty hard to commit to a lot of ideas, like god being able to 'create' things at all. metaphysical laws don't seem to bring actual objects into existence.

If by "logic exists independently of us" you mean "logic is a mind-independent set of laws for the universe", I did talk about this: a metaphysically illogical world is not one we can make arguments about the properties of.

>> No.6890034

>>6889860
>God describes a being that is logically prior to all that exists

>God is logically prior to logic itself (an incoherent statement)

You haven't shown that it's wrong, just that it's incoherent (from a logical point of view). Saying that it is incoherent so it's wrong implies truth about god is priorto logic.

You just basically said:
> assume a
> not a
> qed

Without actually explaining why not a was true. Remember now, by your own definition of God, it is prior to everything including logic.

Plus no system can be both complete and complete, so many true statements aren't provable within the logical system (according to the logical system itself).

>> No.6890038

>>6890034
Implies logic is prior to truth about god*

>> No.6890041

>>6889774
it doesnt, God is not "a" being, he is Being Itself

>> No.6890043

>>6890034
complete and consistent*