History literature

[Anonymous No.6883069]

Where do you read your history and how do you find the proper books?
>inb4 Histories by Herodotus

Requesting good books on these things:
>Roman empire (all stages)
>Holy Roman Empire
>Pre-christianity Scandinavia
>Crusades

[Anonymous No.6883089]

The rise and fall of the roman empire

[Anonymous No.6883105]

Also mongol empire beginnings

[Anonymous No.6883199]

lit pls

[Anonymous No.6883211]

>>6883069
/r/ books on the French Revolution and Napoleon

[Anonymous No.6883213]

>>6883211
I don't get the full sentence

[Anonymous No.6883275]

http://www.bookdepository.com/Rise-Roman-Empire-Polybius/9780140443622

http://www.bookdepository.com/Early-History-Rome-Bks-1-5-Livy/9780140448092

http://www.bookdepository.com/Rome-Italy-Titus-Livy/9780140443882

http://www.bookdepository.com/War-with-Hannibal-Bks-21-30-Titus-Livy/9780140441451

http://www.bookdepository.com/Rome-Mediterranean-Rome-Mediterranean-Bks-31-45-Titus-Livy/9780140443189

Found these on rome, they seem to be written just a bit after the events

[Anonymous No.6883391]

Histories by Herodotus

[Anonymous No.6883405]

Herodotus is dank af though
He actually makes history fun to read.

[Anonymous No.6883413]

While his admiration for Homer is always evident, he freely questioned the historical truth of The Iliad, asking why the Achaeans would wage so lengthy and costly a campaign as the Trojan War on behalf of one woman. This is only one of many examples of Herodotus’ personality displaying itself in his work.

TOP BANTER

[Anonymous No.6883504]

Holy Roman Empire history basically boils down to this:
962 first emperor Otto the Great
until like 1240 nothing of historical significance occurs
1240-1272 or so Interregnum with throne vacancy
1356 Golden Bull is made, the most important law/decree of the empire, regulates and clarifies the voting process of the emperor
Height of the renessaince with Carl V. who's also king of Spain, gaining massive land in the new world
from 1510 onwards shit goes down because of Luther
1614-1648 Thirty Year's War
(note: during the entire length of the early modern period the HRE, or rather the Habsburgs, have to deal with a fuckton of wars with the Turks)
1789 French Revolution
following: Napoleon rising to power, remodelling Europe in the process
1806 Franz II. declines the crown of the Emperor

RIP HRE

[Anonymous No.6883582]

>>6883069
>Holy Roman Empire
Get Joachim Whaley's 2 volumes on the Holy Roman Empire

http://www.amazon.com/Germany-Holy-Roman-Empire-Maximilian/dp/0198731019
http://www.amazon.com/Germany-Holy-Roman-Empire-Dissolution/dp/0199693072

[Anonymous No.6883602]

Please, /lit/, please. Does anyone have information/recommended teading on the relationship between Augustus and Scribonia, Scribonia herself, and their daughter, Julia? I'm specifically looking for insight into the latter two's personalities and relationship. Also, information on Pandetaria and their exile

[Anonymous No.6883608]

>>6883582

Damn, the price is inflated because it's out of print I think

[Anonymous No.6883619]

>>6883602
have you read the biography by adrian goldsworthy?

[Anonymous No.6883628]

>Roman empire (all stages)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140433937?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I3DLR1GVOGPW7Q&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140433945?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I33ZEFM0SGW4AQ&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140433953?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I2FIAAKTCM8CXB&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>Basically covers Roman history from the Age of the Antonines to the Great Schism. A must read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140441875?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I2MGWT683S7OUT&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140444335?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I3REIZNPANO26N&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl

>Julius Caesar's writings about his conquests and campaigns. May sound boring but in actuality, Caesar writes with an easy-to-get-into and exciting prose.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0753821583?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I14I7BIIVJVIJJ&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0297864254?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I1EHWOCQF51ZN7&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0753828634?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I1EPYH3A8W2R4Y&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>A fantastic trilogy of biographies about Caesar, Mark Antony and Cleopatra and Augustus. Good to build up a knowledge of the world as Rome ascended from a Republic to an Empire.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Carthage-Must-Be-Destroyed-Civilization/dp/0141018097
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Fall-Carthage-265-146BC-PAPERBACKS/dp/0304366420/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_y

>Good reads on the Carthaginian Empire and his wars/relationship with Rome. Read them in the order I have linked them to you as the second one is a harder read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lives-Caesars-Oxford-Worlds-Classics/dp/0199537569

>Discusses the biographies and exploits of the first twelve Roman Caesars. Surprisingly Suetonius' prose can be quite funny and witty at times.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/019282421X/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=569136327&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0199537569&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1BT6EART81W723THKDPB
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Histories-Oxford-Worlds-Classics/dp/0199540705/ref=pd_sim_14_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1628059HTFQ1G0NJVBQP
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agricola-Germania-Penguin-Classics-Tacitus/dp/014045540X/ref=pd_sim_14_13?ie=UTF8&refRID=1628059HTFQ1G0NJVBQP

>Discusses post-Nero Rome and the Empire under this era e.g. expansion and society. Could not only to get a good history of the world but it shows the motives and attitudes of Romans and thus builds a good image of why certain figures did such actions.

>>6883275
These books all detail Rome's early years as a regional power and its transition to superpower as it begins to dominate the Mediterranean and Middle East pre-Caesar.

If anyone has any individual Roman time periods or anything they wish to know about please ask. I'm fulfilling OP's other requests atm.

[Tommy No.6883636]

>>6883628
Soz about bad spelling lads. Forgot name as well so you guys can ask me directly.

[Anonymous No.6883647]

>>6883504
>until like 1240 nothing of historical significance occurs

THAT;S THE FUCKING SOLE PERIOD WHEN THE HRE WAS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT AND CENTRAL TO EUROPEAN HITORY

I WANT TO FUCKING BITE YOYU

>Height of the renessaince with Carl V.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Anonymous No.6883658]

>>6883628
Are the books by historians of the time (Livy and Polybius) not enough?

anything on hannibal and also attila specifically?

[Anonymous No.6883668]

>>6883211
French Revolution by Francis Furiet(not sure about name is English). It's a revolutionary book about the French Revolution, since it ended the whole jacobin circlejerk in academia.

[Anonymous No.6883688]

>>6883628
How long did rome exist as a republic and then empire before both splinter empires collapsed? Which period is your favorite?

[Tommy No.6883706]

>Crusades

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0349122350?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=IS9C7M3LI24DV&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl

>Whilst not necessarily about the crusades, it chronicles Isams rise and it's conquest of Persia and the Middle East and really gives good background information on the early Christian-Islamic relationship.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140137068?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I2TVGJRPW4JFXH&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140137041?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I11ITQBQ7JY8SR&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/014013705X?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I1DAOJS5KHALJQ&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>Probably the greatest series on the crusades. This trilogy not only details the early crusades in fantastic detail but also comments on the Crusader Christian states set up in the Levant region.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/030020888X?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=IECRLND9WIQ5J&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_img

>A book solely dedicated to a history of the Crusader states.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0099555034?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I1L856N7ETLV1I&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_img

>A history of the first crusade from the eyes of the east: the Orthodox Church and the Byzantines.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1144212561?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I1UDEECWBX17SP&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_img

>A book detailing the Catholic latin Empire set up in greece after the Crusaders burned down Constantinople.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1849836884?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I1V14MH2VE2DS8&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl

>A generic history of the Crusades. probably best for newbies in this area of history.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0582405254?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I57Y5ZYL3XNE7&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0582405254?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I57Y5ZYL3XNE7&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>A history of early Islamic society and conquests under the Arab caliphs.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0582495156?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I2MI9HSK8PHEAA&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl

>Probably the best book on Islamic Spain and life under Al-Andalus.

[Tommy No.6883720]

>>6883688
My fav period is the Crisis of the Third Century. Basically the Emperor was assassinated and the provinces of Gaul and Britannia seceded and formed the Gallic Empire and then in the east, Syria, palestine, southern Asia and Egypt all rebelled and formed the Palmyrene Empire.

[Tommy No.6883728]

>>6883688
Also, I don't quite get your first question but the Roman Empire began when Augustus became the first emperor of Rome (31 BCE) and ended, in the west, when the last Roman emperor, Romulus Augustulus, was deposed by barbarians(476 CE).

[Anonymous No.6883748]

>>6883706
Do you have recommendations for fluid transition of history from roman till medieval period?

[Anonymous No.6883751]

>>6883619
No and I'll check it out right now--just didn't want to get something that isn't all that informative

[Anonymous No.6883759]

>>6883728
How long did it exist before becoming an empire?

Are western roman empire and eastern considered separate things from roman empire?

[Tommy No.6883788]

>Holy Roman Empire
Quite honestly my area of expertise is its formation and early years so forgive me if this selection of recommendations is very Frank-centric.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140455051?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I2WB1HOWHANY7B&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>A biography written about Charlemagne by one of his advisors and a collection of anecdotes about him.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140442952?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I3KUNJ2WCUVSO4&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl

>A history of the frankish people/nation.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0857381628?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=IDF5QNE3MUF3T&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>A biography on Charlemagne.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0330522795?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=INAGKKWIKUD70&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_img

>A quite funny commentary on the Hapsburg world.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0141048867?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I3OI531TYAAXD5&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_img

>Seriously the most cosy book I've ever read. Focuses mainly on the micro-states of medieval Europe and the extinct powers.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1590171462?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I1THN1N67038TU&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_img
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0141006145?colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=IXKTD6JTUDXCH&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_img

>Two books on the Thirty years War, the last major religious war fought in Europe (mainly between the Holy Roman states).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140290141?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I2KL2MQR85KFE0&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>A sweeping narrative of the Western world during the Middle Ages, from Islamic expansion into Spain and Italy, to Charlemagne, to the Vikings to Byzantium. One of my fav books of all time.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0500330220?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=IS29EO8AN5JM7&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0199212961?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I2YA3AF9K15PGR&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>More sweeping epics on the world during the Middle Ages although these two are more scholarly works and therefore a tougher read.

[Tommy No.6883817]

>>6883759
How long did it exist before becoming an empire?
It began with the overthrow of the Roman monarchy, c. 509 BC, and lasted over 450 years until its subversion in 29 BC, through a series of civil wars, into the Principate form of government and the Imperial period.

Are western roman empire and eastern considered separate things from roman empire?
Both are considered the successors of Rome in most academic circles as they developed quite differently from Rome. For example, the West turned very paganistic and fell quite quickly due to barbarian integration. The east also grew more into a new strain of Christianity (Orthodox) and begun using Greek as its main language.

Some like Edward Gibbons consider the East the Roman Empire continued but to me it was the West as it was the nation that still held the city of Rome itself.

>>6883748
See >>6883788
The last three suggestions especially. Also read >>6883089

[Anonymous No.6883822]

>>6883628
>>6883706
>>6883788
doing god's work tbh

[Anonymous No.6883833]

>>6883817
Thanks, post moar if you got any other stuff

[Anonymous No.6883844]

>>6883788
>joyless "ironic" catholicism
Not in my /lit/, memelord!

[Anonymous No.6883847]

>>6883788
You know of any good overviews of medieval europe (from the fall of rome to the renaissance preferably)? I got a good reply in the earlier thread; I was reccomended Henri Perrine's history, but I'd like a more modern history before I read slightly more 'outdated' histories.

[Anonymous No.6883852]

>>6883817
What about general history of europe aside from rome HRE from pre medieval post rome period?

I just wanna know how europe went from roman empire to many christian countries/kingdoms

[Anonymous No.6883862]

>>6883847
>>6883847
Oh shit didn't see the end of your post, ignore my post haha

[Anonymous No.6883869]

>>6883211

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Napoleon-Great-Andrew-Roberts/dp/1846140277/ref=sr_1_1_twi_3_har?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1437948192&sr=1-1&keywords=napoleon+the+great

>A fantastic biography on Napoleon although at times it does get a little hero centric.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Napoleon-The-Glory-Munro-Price/dp/0199660808/ref=pd_sim_14_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0XA8PRE6PNFEM78D65ZS

>The period of Napoleonic history between Napoleon's abdication and the invasion of Russia, a very little discussed period.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Waterloo-History-Three-Armies-Battles/dp/000753938X/ref=pd_sim_14_21?ie=UTF8&refRID=02V35XECC67QETVKMA6N

>An account of the Battle of Waterloo from the writer of the Sharpe novels.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0007203063/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I3I0ZISXZX3LKW

>A book discussing the Congress of Vienna.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0007123744/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_img?_encoding=UTF8&colid=7LH80PQBSMIQ&coliid=I36S2FV4SZK3J6

>A book on the Russian campaign.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Napoleons-Wars-International-History-1803-1815/dp/0141014202/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1437948358&sr=1-1&keywords=napoleons+wars

>My favourite book on the entire period. Although vehemently anti-Napoleon, it focuses more on the geopolitical aspects of the wars and puts a lot of emphasis on the little known nations during the period e.g. the first relations between the future allies and close friends, Serbia and Russia, and the results of French expansion e.g the little known partitioning of Portugal.

[Anonymous No.6883873]

>>6883862
Ignore this post aswell, I confused middle ages with medieval; I need sleep. But yeah any overviews of 1000ish AD to renaissance?

[Tommy No.6883893]

Anyone one want theological history books? or books on historical religions? thats' y real area of knowledge.

>>6883852
Just read the last three books friend, they're fantastic for that sort of thing. The book about the "Vanishing Kingdoms" is also a GOAT read for that sort of thing.

>>6883833
Well I need new demands. I've covered Rome, Carthage, the Crusades, Islamic conquests, the Thirty Years War, Charlemagne, the Middle Ages, Napoleon and the Napoleonic Wars.

[Anonymous No.6883923]

>>6883089
>>6883275
Is Grant's History of Rome a good overview of things for a pleb?

[Anonymous No.6883927]

>>6883893
Some books about Tengriism or about Hunnic/Turkic/Mongol religion and spirituality would be nice

[Anonymous No.6883928]

>>6883893
You mean last 3 in the post I quoted?

Also what about scandinavian history

[Anonymous No.6883934]

>>6883893
pls respond
>>6883658

[Anonymous No.6883936]

>>6883893
Anything on the non-hellenic pagan beliefs?

[Anonymous No.6883946]

>>6883751
it paints a very 3d picture of Augustus and his daughter.

[Tommy No.6883984]

>>6883893
Right lads I'm going to bed but if this threads still active by the time I make it home from work tomorrow I'll give you guys some new lists based on your requests.

Here's some theological/religious history:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140445358?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I2DJT45YHKYWMY&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>A history of the Christian Church during its first 300 years.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1118301269?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I1KMX70WDH8WF7&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>A history of the Church's first 1000 years.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/014044565X?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I2FMOU029A815P&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>A history of the Christian church in England and the culture that developed under it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0140435263?colid=3NIEZCUG914RR&coliid=I3GNMZGFUIKTX4&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>Six biographies on six popular theologians.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0691154074?colid=3NIEZCUG914RR&coliid=I2ORAMY390N52T&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>A vast collection from the Middle Ages of anecdotes and biographies about famous theologians and Saints.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00AM7E3K4?keywords=diarmaid&qid=1437949507&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2

>I can't even describe this one but you all have to read it if your into theology and Church history.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002RI9ALI?keywords=diarmaid&qid=1437949507&ref_=sr_1_3&sr=8-3

>A history of the reformation and protestantism.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0141021896?keywords=diarmaid&qid=1437949507&ref_=sr_1_5&sr=8-5

A complete history of Christianity from it's inspirations in plato all the way to the modern day. Everyone who has the slightest interest in the Church should read this masterpiece.

(1/2)

[Tommy No.6884004]

>>6883984

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0199538360?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I2UNRTQ12X2KZP&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl

>Mesopotamian mythology and legends

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0199959706?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I10JCDQCDUNPVN&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>Paganism and its relationship with the Church before its fall

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0674025482?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I1A0KCLX3TOE5H&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>A collection of essays about faith and spirituality in the ancient world.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0141021764?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=IWN2OFF317ZO9&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl

>Myths and legends of ancient Egypt.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0141020776?colid=1QE4E4LQ8NUVA&coliid=I1MR77ZXKGB2Q7&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl

>Myths of ancient Greece

(2/2)

[Tommy No.6884008]

>>6883936
see >>6884004

>>6883927
>>6883928
>>6883934
I'll try and get to you lads tomorrow. Hopefully some other anon will intervene on your behalf and help you in the mean time.

[Anonymous No.6884040]

>>6883759
Rome was (traditionally) a kingdom from 753 to 509 though in reality the site was much older than that and we have basically zero information on the so-called "monarchic" period, because
a) it's just really fucking early,
b) it developed gradually and probably confederated a group of settlements on or around the site of Rome, probably on the hills,
c) even after becoming a bonafide city it was still probably very small and minor and little Hellenized and so unlikely to keep extensive records or have the capacity to do so,
and d) a lot of records were lost when the Gauls sacked (Republican) Rome in 390

The monarchic period is basically only known from legend. The seven kings thing is certainly not true.

The Republic is (traditionally) founded in 509 BC after the overthrow of the last king because his son was a dick. Supposedly Republican institutions spring into being at that point, but again more likely there was a gradual transition over centuries, likely to an aristocratic oligarchy, which then probably reduced the king's role to a minor sacral one, and then even that faded away.

For centuries Rome was still very small and not very powerful but slowly starts to get one up on its neighbours, probably by assuming leadership duties in campaigns of the united Latins, until the mid-late 300s when Rome finally subjugates its "neighbourhood" definitively. Again this was probably ongoing far before 509, whatever actually happened or didn't happen that year. From that point onward the conquest of Italy takes about another century, as the Romans come up more strongly against the Etruscans, then the Greek city states and their hinterlands to the south (backed by Pyrrhus, after which they basically give in), and then the Carthaginians who are contesting the Italian islands and Sicily, the first of which cedes the islands to Rome and forces the Carthaginians to build up their empire in Spain, which after the second war then likewise becomes a Roman point of expansion. After that the conquest and colonization of Spain, and then in the 2nd century Rome starts seriously setting her eyes on the Diadochi empires of the Eastern Med.

During these centuries, the oligarchs are very strong because enriched by warfare and constantly leading men, but from what we can tell the plebeian order genuinely rankled at oligarch preponderance. In the early 3rd century, the Lex Hortensia is passed, ideally giving the plebs massive political power, but in reality it's not much, and mostly succeeds in absorbing the wealthier plebeians into a new patrician-plebeian oligarchy and leaving the poor plebs to eat dick.

[Anonymous No.6884049]

>>6884040
By the 2nd century, the average Roman peasant who was the lifeblood of the Roman armies has been fighting basically nonstop for hundreds of years, with the gradual side effect of their (freely owned) patrimonial lands leeching to the oligarchy, as more and more generations of men are either lost or preoccupied in some far-off theatre and their families have to sell. This process is often exaggerated, but the classic narrative is that the oligarchs buy up all the independent farms and reorganise them into slave-staffed "broad farms," latifundia. Again, not that simple, but the basic idea of a growing urban proletariat and shrinking / less energetic freeholding peasantry is true.

At the end of the 2nd century (130s-100) the famous Gracchi brothers attempt to redress certain issues of farm-hoarding by forcing the oligarchy to obey laws that are already on the books. They use the old supposed political power of the plebs, embodied by the Tribunes, to force this legislation COUNTER to strong oligarchic opposition. The result is that the oligarchs go "u wot m8?" and use violence, the Gracchi and their supporters use violence, everyone uses violence and declares his opponent an enemy of the state/people, and now Roman politics are a supercharged violent melee in an overpopulated city full of plebs with nothing better to do.

At the same time, the sapping of the freeholding peasantry (again, sorta) and a general massive need for manpower as the Germans make their entry into history and scare the shit out of everyone, (sorta) prompts a guy named Marius to (sorta) recruit these people who have nothing better to do into armies. Now they aren't looking to go back home to their farms - they are looking to be SETTLED on farms, by their patron (their general). This has the consequence of making these more professionally drilled armies fantastically loyal to their generals. Almost immediately Marius, due to the nature of Roman politics/culture emphasising the personal magnetism of a great man, becomes a force of nature, and comes into conflict with people following his example. Civil war erupts, and now the political violence in Rome itself is mirrored by the military violence of massive armies following cult-of-personality generals against one another.

This process repeats and gets worse and more radicalised, with each generation of generals being less oligarchically inclined and more like simple freebooters looking to wield absolute power/deference from the state, until you get the final cataclysmic clashes of Caesar (50s, 40s), who becomes supreme dude for a bit then gets assassinated because he put on royal airs and didn't play the PR game, followed by Caesar's adoptive son vs. Caesar's best bud. Caesar's adoptive son is better at PR and knows not to act all kingly, and uses this against his opponent (Marc Antony, who is putting on Eastern monarchical airs and getting cucked by a god-queen).

[Anonymous No.6884060]

>>6884049
He (Octavianus) wins eventually (30s), and Rome is so tired of this shit that they make him sort of "first citizen." He has the personal loyalty of the armies, which are not barred from oligarchic control except his or his family's. He basically wields the power of a king without being one. This is considered the end of the Republic, though as you can see it was never very democratic to begin with. Basically an oligarchy. It's called the beginning of the Principate, after "princeps," which becomes our "prince," but which really means "first citizen" or "most excellent dude, let's all listen to him," a basically informal title. One of the reasons why Caesar comes to mean emperor is that they just needed a goddamn word for whatever the hell the "Caesars" now were.

The Principate inaugurates the Pax Romana, a roughly two-century period of Rome's virtually complete dominance of the Mediterranean, relative peace, artistic flourishing, only really broken up by civil wars over the imperial succession that didn't affect average people all that much. You have several dynasties, from the Julio-Claudians to the Flavians, to the Five Good Emperors to the Severans and so on. A big problem at this point is that the succession is never made explicitly monarchical. Almost any decent emperor maintains the fiction that he's first-among-equals, a servant of the state, even though they're now being deified on death and such. This is fine for PR, but it makes it hard to designate a successor, especially if your son is a weakling or dies early. Any general or person in a position of power tends to jump at the opportunity of a weak succession to make themselves emperor. This will be a major problem later on, when external threats to Rome resume, and it constantly distracts the Roman state from dealing with its frontiers, or outright wastes perfectly good soldiers in very desultory high-casualty civil war.

In the 3rd century, basically that happens. Military threats resume as the piss-weak Parthians are replaced by OI M8, FITE ME Sasanians, who are willing to wage real war. The Germans on the frontier become a REAL, consistent problem for basically the first time. And Rome descends into civil bitch-slapping for ages. The armies are ground away (the classical legion is dead) and things generally get unpleasant. The emperors at this point are basically whatever buzz-cut sporting angry Illyrian man can hit enough people to make them follow him. This is the era of splintering Gallic Empires and Palmyrians, and Aurelian smushing it back together (and then being killed by his own secretary).

[Anonymous No.6884065]

>>6884060
This is fixed in the late 3rd century by a scary man named Diocletian and his junta friends, who basically run a badass tour of the empire, smashing the fuck out of any upstarts, regalvanizing the frontiers, and calming everyone the fuck down. Diocletian tries to institute a new style of succession, the Tetrarchy, where two Augusti (higher emperors) and their two Caesares (junior emperors) rule in the West and East respectively, because the role of an emperor at this point is to be close to problem areas and frontiers with a big-ass army ready to go at any time. The idea is that it's not hereditary but meritocratic, and the Augusti retire in unison to let the Caesares upgrade and have their own Caesares.

Rome is no longer a viable capital, and is waning into political irrelevance for a long time already. Augusti and Caesares are posted at military hard points where they can strike out against invasions and put down rebellions. Diocletian also tries to fix the economic and social collapse caused by the Third Century Crisis, with mixed and controversial results that can basically be summed up as "austerity that doesn't quite work." He also institutes a massive, salaried civil bureaucracy that puts the final nail in the coffin of the traditional Roman oligarchy, which saw state service as an honour (and an opportunity to profiteer by scamming tax revenues), and typically showed off their oligarchy-ness by spending money on their local cities, and replaces it with a completely different ruling culture with a "byzantine" rather than "decurion" one. This period is called the Dominate, because the emperors were called "dominus," lord, instead of princeps, and Eastern-style monarchic things like bowing down to them and venerating them as towering figures become more in vogue in order to guarantee political stability.

The Tetrarchy falls apart hilariously, and descends into, of course, civil war. A really complicated one with 18 guys named Max. The end result is that Constantine the Great, ends up being the last guy standing in the 320s. The empire still can't be run by one dude so he designates his sons to hold down the fort where necessary. He was also a Christian, and brings the Church on as a state institution (very expensive). He dies, his sons descend into civil war again, one guy is left standing. See if you can detect the theme.

[Anonymous No.6884070]

>>6884065
By the end of the fourth century a general named Theodosius I takes over, the previous Valentinian dynasty (which he served) having faded, and he makes "official" the split between East and West by giving one part each to his two sons. Unfortunately these sons fucking suck and are monopolised by their own head-men, relatives, courtiers, and wives, a trend which continues for much of the fifth century. The West falls apart under barbarian pressures and a badly retracted social and economic structure, the East gets its shit back together and becomes THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE, fights some Persians, has a good time. In the late fifth and sixth, barbarian kingdoms set up shop in the West, Justinian tries to retake the West, only succeeds in making it worse and wasting his money. By the seventh, the West is a big egg with the word "MEDIEVAL EUROPE" doodled on it in Sharpie, and the Byzantine Empire is a retracted, defensive state, locked in horrible wasteful war with the Persians. Then the Muslims come and ruin everything for everyone, at the worst possible time. Two hundred years later a pope puts a crown on a guy's head while he's not looking and says he's the emperor of Rome, and the guy responds by saying "ok" in Frankish.

[Anonymous No.6884091]

>>6883923
Pls, i ordered it and i need to know if i should cancel

[Anonymous No.6884108]

>>6883069
This picture is amazing

[Anonymous No.6884116]

>>6883869
What was the burning of the library of Alexandria?

[Anonymous No.6884118]

>>6884091
Yeah it's alright but if I were you I'd cancel it and instead get the 3.99 wordsworth editions of the abridged "fall and decline of the Roman Empire" and "the twelve Caesars." If you have money left from your planned purchase of Grant, get Rubicon for a summary of Caesar and the republic's fall. and boom you've now got a histry of the republic, the early emperors and the collapse. a God tier entry level pack for a pleb.

[Anonymous No.6884216]

>>6883946
Perfect thank you, I will get this. Also, does anyone have any biographies or sources that directly address Julia and Scribonia's exile to Pandetaria and the conditions they lived under?

[Anonymous No.6884256]

Ty all based historyfags ITT, you guys are always great

[Anonymous No.6884348]

So maybe one of you guys might have a tip for me:
i am currently heavily interested in the person of flavius belisarius. i checked amazon and my universities archiv the last week and found basically nothing. nada. only theater plays from the early 18th century or books that are basically not sold anymore. anyone got a good book on this topic?

[Anonymous No.6884477]

Any recommendations for some military-centric European rennaissance warfare/pike and shot titles?

[Anonymous No.6884487]

Did roman soldiers get PTSD?

[Anonymous No.6884674]

>Pre-christian Scandinavia
>mynigga.jpg

Röde Orm (The Longships) by Frans G. Bengtsson

[Anonymous No.6884705]

>>6884487
Why wouldn't they? If anything, modern advances in war have freed us from some of the most upsetting experiences of war, like being trampled underfoot by your own army and being trapped in combat with 10 guys trying to kill you as you can't pull your spear out of the guy you just killed.

Many survivors of war were mocked and ridiculed because surviving a losing battle often involved laying face down in a pool of blood and shit until you can run away in the dark. That can't have been fun.

[Anonymous No.6884717]

>>6884477
With Fire and Sword
(Ogniem i mieczem)

[Anonymous No.6884747]

>>6884705
Artillery, IEDs, etc, bring an aspect of terror + distance from the person killing you that ancient war didn't really have. ( Artillery existed but you could see it in an open field and the projectile was visible, not instant explosive death).

But IEDs especially, anywhere there could be an explosive device that doesn't look like one that kills your entire squad instantly.

[Anonymous No.6884881]

bump

[Anonymous No.6885010]

>>6883928
Vikings in History- F. Logan
http://bookzz.org/book/859265/02e386

The Norsemen in the Viking Age- Eric Christiansen
http://bookzz.org/book/1102130/0ca043

Sverre Bagge- Cross and Sceptre: The Rise of Scandinavian Kingdoms from the Vikings to the Reformation
http://bookzz.org/book/2341907/d1f467

[Anonymous No.6885188]

>>6885010
Is it about invasions or life in scandinavia?

[Anonymous No.6885240]

>>6885188
i havent read them. i think both though. i was recommended the last one by a professor of scandinavian history and the first two from oxford bibliographies article on vikings

[Anonymous No.6885677]

moar

[Anonymous No.6885684]

no surprise some right wing pseud expects everyone to do his study for him

[Anonymous No.6885688]

>>6885684
THE BUTTHURT BRIGADE HAS ARRIVED

PREPARE YOUR DILDOS

[Anonymous No.6885693]

>>6885688
why caps?

[Anonymous No.6885838]

Am I wrong on first reading about specific periods or slowly going through various books about different periods of any given civilization/event BEFORE reading more generalized histories that cover whole civilizations or thousands of years?

[Anonymous No.6885849]

I bought the 1956 hardcover edition of "The outline of history" by HG Wells at a used bookstore the other day, anyone here read it? Is it good?

[Anonymous No.6886095]

What do you think about Adrian Goldsworthy's works? (Principally about Roman History)

Books about the first stages of fitna? (From Mohammed's death to martyrdom of Al-Husayn)

[Anonymous No.6886120]

Requesting any decent book about Ancient China that you guys know of. Preferably Han China, because they were the "Other Rome" in the world at the time and about the same size/strength. This repeating scenario of two superpowers in the world intrigues me.
Last time I asked this in a history thread I had no responses. Pls dont let me down /lit/ ;_;
I mean yeah Rome and the Vikings are badass but I already have plenty of books on them.

[Anonymous No.6886127]

>>6885838
nah fam read it anyway you want. I started off reading WW2 books and now I'm reading Plutarch. Just let your interests develop.

>>6886095
Goldsworthy is based but read some books before his on related subjects to get a grip of the period as his work can be quite hard going.

I think Tommy reccomended some based on the Fitna and under his crusades recommendations

[Anonymous No.6886152]

Currently reading The Robot's Rebellion by David Icke.

Interesting analysis of merging religious stories from different cultures.

[Anonymous No.6886153]

>>6884118
>history isn't like my vidya

[Anonymous No.6886176]

>>6886127
Thanks.
Are there a unusual theses in Goldsworthy's works?

[Anonymous No.6886542]

Books on the rise of Genghis Khan and the Mongol Empire?

[Anonymous No.6887885]

bump

[Anonymous No.6889160]

>>6884348
really no one?
is literature on that topic really that rare?

[Anonymous No.6889297]

I wrote down all Egyptian texts I've came across in my Egyptian history book so far (mostly tomb and tablet inscriptions with some sheets of papyrus)

>Old Kingdom
Palermo Stone
The Maxims of Ptahhotep
The Pyramid Texts

>First Intermediate Period
Coffin Texts
Ankhtifi's Inscriptions
Teachings for King Merykara
Tale of the Eloquent Peasant

>Middle Kingdom Renaissance
Admonitions of the Egyptian Sage
Prophecy of Neferti
Complaints of Khakheperrseneb
Dialogue between a Man tired of Life and his 'ba'
Hekakhte Papers
Teachings of Amenemhat
Hymns to Senusret
Tale of Sinuhe
Westcar Papyrus

I haven't looked up any of these yet. From my reading, Westcar Papyrus seems like the only one really worth reading on its own, assuming its even together still.

The Pyramid Texts and the Coffin Texts may be cool to look into as a predecessor to reading a Book of the Dead. If my understanding is right, there is no single "Book of the Dead", but these are spell books which are made for a Pharaoh to help them survive in the afterlife. Each of the books are slightly different I guess, each with its own element in regards to the Pharaoh its written for. The Book of the Dead was probably canonized by a much later author, who incorporated elements from all the books of the dead written.

I have to say, studying Egypt is kinda boring. At least for the first few chapters. You get some cool tidbits of information and some iconic people here and there, but its mostly a long list of pharaohs. The pharaohs barely have any achievements outside of the tomb they build. Really, the only name I remember is Imhotep because that guy is way more interesting than everyone discussed so far.

[Anonymous No.6890272]

>>6889160
Did you check wikipedia?

[Anonymous No.6890318]

>>6883211
Citizens by Schama is pretty well respected, although his thesis "the french revolution was dominated by violence unrequited" isnt

[Anonymous No.6890329]

>>6884348
Count Belisarius by Robert Graves for well researched fiction, and Procopius if you are that kind of guy