/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Fri Jul 24 22:19:34 2015 No.6875381 [Reply] [Original]

Did Aristotle pretty much finish moral philosophy? Can anyone look at a work as beautiful and complete as the Ethika Nikomacheia and think that there's a lot more still to be done?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 22:31:18 2015 No.6875425 stoicism is way better than aristotle

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 22:53:25 2015 No.6875540 >>6875425 stoicism = virtue ethics + unnecessary divine elements

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 22:56:00 2015 No.6875546 File: 239 KB, 500x667, Untitled37.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6875381 >lit - literature

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 22:59:27 2015 No.6875559 Then why did Aristotle himself wrote another book of ethics (Ethica Eudrmia)? Anyway, I agree it's a pretty solid ethics, but I think the concept of virtue is today not as relevant as it was in the past.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:00:30 2015 No.6875563 >>6875546 Too bad there is no >phil.

Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:06:34 2015 No.6875586
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Aristotle is the most boring and useless author ever, especially if you are going to read all the huge books he wrote.

It's better to read his basics at Wikipedia or something like that and keep walking to something more interesting like Hegel or Saint Augustine

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:08:02 2015 No.6875592 File: 439 KB, 640x853, Untitled31.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6875563 Doesn't mean this is the board for it. Take it to /b/ or complain to management

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:09:54 2015 No.6875596 >>6875586 >Hegel If there's a philosopher you should only read the wikipedia page that is Hegel

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:11:10 2015 No.6875598 >DUDE EXCELLENCE LMAO No. He's mostly bullshit and would make a better librarian than a philosopher, to be honest.

Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:14:42 2015 No.6875612
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>>6875592

>not understanding that philosophy is more important than fictional literature and not having philosophy board means that /phil/ can do whatever they want with this board

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:19:59 2015 No.6875635 File: 319 KB, 803x688, 1424913890878.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >implying /phil/ is not an awful idea >implying it will ever exist >implying philosophy isn't literature

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:22:48 2015 No.6875646 Honestly, if you like literature and get mad at people discussing philosophy, you don't really like (or get) literature.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:31:07 2015 No.6875674 >>6875559 The EE is practically the same as the EN. Why is the concept of "virtue" not as relevant today?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:32:04 2015 No.6875679 >>6875646 pretty much this, to read Kafka you 'd kind of get an itching to read Heidegger after

Πλατωνοφιλος Fri Jul 24 23:35:59 2015 No.6875698

>>6875674
By "not as relevant" I jut mean that, sadly, in today's (western) society the imperant ethics is utilitarianism. Hence we get that politics is now a branch of economy (seeking to give more wealth to the bigger number of people) instead of trying to make people "better" (virtuous).

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:40:26 2015 No.6875714 File: 253 KB, 600x800, Untitled38.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6875612 >>6875646 >>6875679 >I have to read a convoluted circumlocutious tome of some angsty faggot so he can do my thinking for me No, you're all just retarded

Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:44:50 2015 No.6875724

>>6875698

Virtue Ethics is pretty popular in Philosophical circles these days. I've had Virtue Ethicist profs. The thing is, so as long as we live in a democracy quality will always be subordinated to quantity. It is built into the very foundation of the system that the most lowest common denominator ideas are the ones that are privileged, since those ideas can gain the greatest physical mass of supporters. Virtue excludes the unvirtous and demands people better themselves, such a formula is not flattering enough to the masses, who need scapegoats to blame for their own faults and generally want the most convenient way to benefit materially.

>>	Πλατωνοφιλος Fri Jul 24 23:49:39 2015 No.6875749 >>6875724 Well Aristotle himself considered democracy to be a lesser form of government (in comparison with aristocracy), and as far as my knowledge goes, it is very hard to find a pre-modern philosopher who likes it.

Anonymous Fri Jul 24 23:57:31 2015 No.6875780

>>6875698
I agree and I think that is precisely what makes it relevant. Utility is such a superficial principle that no careful variation of the theory is capable of producing any real content.

>>6875724
Perhaps Stoicism could be a stepping stone, as the masses are accustomed to a conception of ethics rooted in divine law.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 00:06:42 2015 No.6875803 >>6875749 Aristotle favored democracy, provided certain conditions were met.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 00:25:03 2015 No.6875854 aristotle was wrong right down to the core. His metaphysics was shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 00:27:14 2015 No.6875862 >>6875854 How were his metaphysics wrong?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 00:43:32 2015 No.6875912 >>6875862 hylomorphism and the idea of the final cause. Both of these things are just artifacts of our language and mental organizational habits. They don't actually exist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 00:46:35 2015 No.6875921 >>6875912 How do you figure that?

Anonymous Sat Jul 25 00:56:53 2015 No.6875968

>>6875912

Even in order to make the argument that there is such a thing as language and minds in order to explain away essences, one must suppose that there is in fact such a thing as language and mind, as opposed to other things. But if there are such things, then there must be an objective essence to them.

Similarly, final cause is essential to the idea of efficient cause here invoked as explanation- it is what substantively links language and mental organisational habits to their products, as opposed to there being a merely coincidental relation between the purported cause and the effect. Final causality, then, is indispensable to efficient causality.

So nah, Aristotle's metaphysics is spot-on.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 01:14:43 2015 No.6876048 File: 31 KB, 1028x710, 1432621118379.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6875381 reminder perhaps the anacyclosis works for nations as well

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 01:16:47 2015 No.6876061 >>6875803 >provided certain conditions were met. such as ?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 01:18:28 2015 No.6876067 >>6876061 people werent stupid nah, jk, im not the anon

Anonymous Sat Jul 25 01:30:07 2015 No.6876105

>>6876061
There needed to be universal male suffrage (barring slaves, of course) and "moderate and sufficient property" for all citizens (or at least measures in place to guarantee it's distribution). Disparity in wealth would lead to the poor robbing the rich, so relative equality would have to be maintained. Even Aristotle's system of slavery resembled a kind of welfare.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 02:14:08 2015 No.6876245 >>6875912 >Both of these things are just artifacts of our language and mental organizational habits. Can you give an argument for this claim ?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 06:21:25 2015 No.6877035 >>6875540 >unnecessary divine elements go outside and take a look at nature and then tell me there is no fundamental principle in it (logos, tao, god or whatever you want to call it)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 06:32:08 2015 No.6877066 Aristotle didn't coin error theory so no.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 06:34:32 2015 No.6877071 >>6875749 I think most still prefer aristocracy in the form of educated representatives to a real democracy

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 25 16:01:28 2015 No.6878871 >>6877035 Done.

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