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/lit/ - Literature

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[ERROR] No.6830458 [Reply] [Original]

Ok /lit/, all the paths converge to this exact point. Everything is set, characters, plot, lore, future and past, interactions, subtleties, allusions.
Everything is set in place, but one thing, which you may have guessed by this point:

>prose

How, for the life of me, do I objectively improve my prose, so that even if the rest of the "thing" I'm writing isn't alluring, it would be at least pleasant to read?
I'm reading a lot, and writing a lot, but it doesn't help when what I write is still sub-par. People seem to suggest reading and writing does just that, improve prose, but it doesn't seem to stick to me. Sure, I can mold the things I want to say around an already existing piece of literature, but is it really want I should be doing? Isn't free /good/ prose the way towards a good book?

I'm deciding to end this ramble with a tl;dr
>how to write good / decent prose so that if someone would critique my work and give it a low score, it wouldn't be because of my prose.

>> No.6830601

>>6830458
your pic made me hide the thread

>> No.6830656

>>6830601
whatever

can you help?

>> No.6830678

>>6830458
who is this scrumptious strumpet?

>> No.6830684

>>6830458
who is this silly eye cream-pie?

>> No.6830693

>>6830458
read a lot

>> No.6830697

who is this whore knocking-at-my-chamber-door?

>> No.6830698

>>6830458
Annotate what you read, read widely/diversely, learn a second language

>> No.6830699

>>6830693
this, and practice. no other trick to it

>> No.6830704

>>6830458
who is this unflawed broad?

>> No.6830707

>>6830601
Why she's a qt

>> No.6830714

>>6830458
never mind that, do you have her nudes?

>> No.6830720

>>6830714
simmer down faggot

>> No.6830727

>>6830720
they exist fyi

>> No.6830772

>>6830458
You just need practice more OP; give us a sample of your current style by describing for us this woman's plump rump.

>> No.6830811

>>6830772
This is why I frequent /lit/

nigga got a way with words

>> No.6830826
File: 89 KB, 883x990, blade_feels.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

Wow, I must be old (27). You guys seem to like her, But this chick really looks too young to bang for me. sadface.jpg
And I'm fucking a 19yo currently.

In any case, post some text OP.

>> No.6831116

OP here, aside from the obvious who s this semen demon questions regarding the OP pic, there doesn't seem a lot to the replies.

I mean I do annotate the things I read and save them for further study, as for learning another language, I'm already fluent in english, german and romanian with just a dash of french, which is more than what most people have knowledge of.

As for practice, I came up with sort of a plan.
Is it good to just write the story from head to toe, complete as it is, no edit or anything. Then as time passes, just edit and add or remove things as I read more and more, and come with more and more ideas?

Or should I strive to write a half-decent thing in one go, so to speak, and be happy and done with it?

The true question is:

>Is "good prose" just bad text edited until there's literally nothing of what the original was?

>> No.6831131

>>6830458
stop focusing on all those other things. you're structuring the writing process wrong, mentally: the paths do not converge on prose, rather, and this is in fact hidden to intuition, to the sense of reading, to the 'mind's eye' that paints so vividly when we read the prosaic masters -- here, a cruel irony of our faculties -- it is in fact the case that those elements spring from the prose. it is your words that create characters in the minds of the reader; to conceive of writing as the task of capturing or transferring the essence of the character to words, to prose, is in error.

>> No.6831141

>>6831116
there is no such thing as good prose and bad prose

there is only prose you personally enjoy and prose that you do not

write the story purely to your own sensibilities. do not attempt to appeal to an audience. write exactly how you'd like to read it.

value is always subjective. write for yourself.

>> No.6831336

>>6831141
Yes but I think my prose is objectively sub-par and I can see it when comparing to other works of literature.
I mean it feels so empty and thus I fall into the trap of adjective overuse and purple prose.

>> No.6831373

>>6831336

Fire us a couple of paragraphs and let us see if you spark anything. Right now it's all just conjecture.

>> No.6831401

>>6831373
>this is an excerpt, pure, unedited and unaltered, the way I'm writing without any stop for a change. Of course this will be edited sometime in the future, but just so you have an idea of my prose, this part is totally unedited.
--------

She spoke in a dismissing tone and he understood that he ought to go now and not keep his superior waiting any longer. Rea was the one who would handle these cases when Rulaldi, a man of action himself, would not feel like it, or cases of commonality.
Dikra stood up and walked away, leaving the bureau and taking a turn down the stone hallway. Castle Danika counted itself one amongst the very few entirely safe places so far west of Ikar-ashin river. Rulaldi's quarters was not far considering the sheer size of the citadel. Leaving Rea's, one would have to follow the hallway into the courtyard, then take a sharp turn right towards the main tower. Halfway through, a door in the wall would indicate the place where, on the second floor, Rulaldi would do his bureaucratic work, namely handle new recruits and occasionally lay down judgement.
"Yes, Dikra, take your seat. Close the door behind you, yes?"
The man stood up and positioned himself in front of Dikra, leaning on the writing table, pushing documents aside. Not a moment passed until he closed his eyes and rubbed his face, sighing deeply. He shot a glance at Dikra, then shook his head and scratched his nose.
"Boy, you made quite a mess." he said, placing his hands into his pockets.

>> No.6831421

>>6831401
cut the size of your sentences in half

watch your tenses (rubbed his face sighing deeply is awk)
>all that face rubbing, sighing and pocket placing
is this guy zizek

>> No.6831439

>>6831401

Things I like:
>Minimalism
>Rustic vibe
>no overuse of adjectives or descriptions

Things I don't like:
>Unironically calling a location "the citadel"
>Introduction of multiple characters with unusual names
>Lack of 'show not tell' with your character introductions
>Some of the sentences are long

>> No.6831456

>>6830697
I love that poem, dude.
>there was a rap rap rapping at the door
Like, whoa.

>> No.6831548

>>6831421
>>all that face rubbing, sighing and pocket placing
>is this guy zizek
he's kinda stressed and disappointed in what this other guy, Dikra, just did a few days before (when the chapter basically begins)

>>6831439
>rustic vibe
can you explain more about this rustic vibe? I'm basically trying to have this cozy, warm desert sort of feel to the environments where things are going on, so the fact that you stiffed a rustic vibe lifted my spirits.

>Minimalism
Is it a good thing? I'm always left with the impression that I should do more description, but I guess you're right. More to the point doesn't force the reader to divert his attention from the main event going on.

>Unironically calling a location "the citadel"
But the place IS a citadel. In itself, it's almost more populated than entire, albeit smaller, cities. More than one group of people take residence in it, it's not like some castle where the king or whatever goes with his spoiled kids on summer. Still, I agree with you and I'll definitely edit that out. Citadel is kinda so forces, like using "milord" in actual dialogue.....

>Lack of 'show not tell' with your character introductions
I suspect this is about calling Rulaldi a "man of action" with basically no basis, right? Rulaldi has been already "presented" in an earlier part of of the story, so maybe I should just edit it out. At this point, after reading the story you already know he's a man of action and of little patience. Not sure why I need to reinforce things by repeating.... I'll edit it out of make it more subtle (maybe add some piece of dialogue to remind the reader that Rulaldi really doesn't want to get too caught in this affair)

>Some of the sentences are long
The voice ringing in my head when reading always tells me that short sentences are incredibly boring and awkward. Maybe it's just the voice I'm reading with. Then again, the same voice makes all characters sound like 13 years old faggots. Maybe I'm not reading well.

>Introduction of multiple characters with unusual names
I'm not rapid firing characters. All of them (the whole 3 of them) are already established characters in the story. You're right on one aspect though, that in such a short paragraph I already sort of talked about 3 different people. Will try to find alternatives and cut things like these out.

>> No.6831573

>>6831548

I suppose if we're reading it out of context it doesn't make as much sense as it would.

The way the paragraph began, the first sentence, reminded me a little of Faulkner, which made me think of an earnest and rustic sort of prose.

It seems to be in the background from that point on, but that first sentence is evident of it. The very to-the-point descriptions of actions lend to that as well and make it read very straightforward.

>> No.6831598

>>6831336
>Yes but I think my prose is objectively sub-par

Well, you're wrong. There's no such thing as objective value. Do you like your prose or not? Why or why not? Avoid saying "because it's not like author x, whom I admire".

>> No.6831622

>>6831598
I feel like it's way too simplistic and minimalistic, and that I should be using more interesting words for the same thing I'm writing.
Or that the action is not described well enough, or that the dialogue is not varied enough (as in, all characters sound the same (but that might just be the inner voice, as I already said)), or that I can't pull a "show not tell" thing.

What should I do in this case, show not tell I mean? Does it actually mean that, instead of saying "He is a brave man" I should actually write a part somewhere before that statement, where he performs an act of bravery, thus allowing me to safely delete that statement, basically "showing" that he is brave, not telling that he is brave?

In this case, boy oh boy, do I have t review a lot of what I've written..........

>> No.6831638

>>6831622

Want me to post a sample of my writing for comparison and you can say what you like/dislike about it?

That way we can learn and improve.

>> No.6831646

>>6831638
sure thing

>> No.6831649

>>6831646

It presented itself like the eye of some gargantuan insect, multifaceted and imposing in the centre of the room, though their purpose was opposite to that of an eye, as they displayed information using light rather than receiving and processing information using light. That was the job of the multiple computers running the system. Littered around this blinding centrepiece were plates of half-eaten food, empty snack packets, a multitude of RRAM drives, miniature figurines from some show Jenkins kept telling her about but of which she never could quite remember the name, and a serious amount of alcohol based hand disinfectant.

>> No.6831673

>>6831622
>I can't pull a "show not tell" thing

Who gives a shit. The phrase is popular because it's often repeated. Do YOU like your writing? When you feel that it "should" be different in some way (less minimalist, less simplistic), do you know why? Do you think these feelings are internal or induced by some external source. What's so wrong with simple and minimalist writing?

Write selfishly. Write for fun, or for escapism, or whatever you want. Don't concern yourself with outside standards. If you want to tell and not show, go for it.

>> No.6831696

>>6830458

Dikra?

"Dick-Raw"?

>> No.6831699

>>6831649
Ok the definitive thing that I did not like, was this exact part:
> though their purpose was opposite to that of an eye, as they displayed information using light rather than receiving and processing information using light.
Do we really need to know this trite piece of information? And if we do need to know right away that this object-thing is displaying information using light, surely it could be presented in a different manner. I understand that you wanted to tie with the first part of the paragraph, namely the fact that it presented itself like an eye, but I feel like the rest of it was quite unasked for. If you do need to keep it, just don't mention what an eye actually does (receiving and processing information using light).
What I liked about it is that it has this cyber-punk / city-punk sort of feel. I mean the sort of story where you can read about John Smith drinking his coffee right before going to work, where his colleague is some sort of crazy android. Part of what made me think of it is the description of the environment surrounding the computer thingy in the middle.

Did you specifically aim for this?

>> No.6831700

>>6831673

Not OP here. I have to agree, I write what I feel is good and what I feel flows for me, what works.

If I look back later and can't feel the same flow and enthusiasm I change it, but I write a stream of unedited and sloppy prose before I even think about going over it.

>> No.6831710

>>6830458

what have you read this year? What's on your list for the future? To improve your prose it's important to read a lot of different styles, and read some difficult books as well to improve your knowledge of the english language.

>> No.6831729

>>6831699

As you said with your excerpt, it's completely unedited. I sort of pasted that without even reading it over first, and as soon as I posted it I read it and realised how fucking awful that sentence was in every meaning of the word. It's going in the trash when I edit it.

Also yes, it is a cyberpunk-esque novel, that's exactly what I was aiming for, sadly not so far removed from our current reality that John Smith has an android.

>> No.6831773

>>6831710
the whole harry potter series
brothers karmazov
the republic
misborn trilogy
continued with the bible (old testament)
the metamorphosis
started with dune but couldn't get into it
currently reading moby dick, book or new sun and blood meridian
future plans include some western things I've been uncovering, heart of darkness, crime and punishment and lovecraft full works (got a lengthy book on that one).

I really just read on a whim.

>> No.6831817

>>6831773

Pretty good reading list, I don't think that's the problem. I've personally been told my prose is good, I'd say what helped me the most is reading a lot, writing a lot, ripping of established author's styles and developing my own style based on that, psychedelic drugs, and /lit/ critique threads, in that order.

>> No.6831836

>>6831817
I suppose I'll just have ti suck it up and write, write, write first, and edit only AFTER everything is finished.
So far I think that it's the best way to have anything done. I mean I seem to write best when I don't stop to consider every detail, and just continue writing even if it's really bad.

>> No.6831850

I have similar concerns as OP.

I feel I like struggle with prose. I feel like I grind to a halt when I try to write out the prose for my stories. I worry I'm not giving enough information, description, etc. but then don't want to dump endless exposition either. It's extremely frustrating.

Does anyone have good advice or can recommend good material on getting over this issue?

>> No.6831851

>>6831836

for reference, I've read about forty books in the past two years, and I've been writing heavily since I was in high school. I've written hundreds of pages of stuff no better than yours.

>> No.6832115

>>6831401
Here are a couple tricks:
1. For every sentence, every phrase, and every word, ask yourself "does this add something to what I'm writing?" If it doesn't positively benefit the writing, remove it. You can and should cut the total amount of pre-dialogue text in half.
2. Ask yourself "does what I wrote make sense?" Describing a guy as a man of action immediately adjacent to describing the person that does his work for him, for instance, doesn't make sense.

>> No.6832237

>>6831401
Ok, man, I don't want to be a dick here, but...

What the hell are you doing? This isn't how you think, and clearly not how you talk. Why the fuck are you writing like this? Stop trying so hard to milk something that's not there and write in your own voice. Take it easy and tell your story. Short, concise sentences are just fine. Watch your tenses (stop greentexting on 4chan). I'm kinda curious about where your story is going, and you're doing ok with dialogue, but your verbosity is tiring as shit.

>> No.6832265

>>6830458
who is this erection perfection

>> No.6832286

>>6832237


Any chance you can give me some feedback on this?
They ask me what I’ve done at school as if they’re actually interested in what I’m learning. If I don’t find it interesting, how can they?

“Hi hun, how was school?”
“Ok.”
“Do anything interesting today?”
“Not really.”
“What classes did you have today?”
“Maths, Tech, English last, but I forget what else.”
“Learn anything?”
“No, all my teachers are either incompetent, lazy, boring, stupid or weird.”
“That’s nice hun, tea will be an hour.”
“It’s dinner.”
“What hun?”
“Nothing mum, I’m going to my room.”
“See you at tea time as usual then.”
“Yeah, ‘tea’ time.”
“Nice talking with you hun.”

I really wish I could talk to her about everything, my classes, the teachers, my hopes and dreams, my fears and nightmares, the boys I like, the problems I face, the achievements I make, the thoughts I have; about the world, about politics, about sex and drugs and growing up, about what it’s like being an adult, about how it feels to have a kid that ignores you and might not even love you, about my innermost being laid bare for her to see, to inspect with a microscope until my being is no longer a mystery to her, until she has such an understanding of me that we no longer feel uncomfortable and we can talk about anything, and we love each other unconditionally and we live happily ever after. However I find it much easier to wish I didn’t wish all that and continue pretending that my thoughts are none of her concern. Which is also true.

>> No.6832301

>>6830458
where is her philtrum?