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/lit/ - Literature

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6811304 No.6811304 [Reply] [Original]

Can you say that you've "read" The Brothers Karamazov if you read the Garnett translation? I was talking to someone recently, and he told me that I didn't experience the novel because I used that translation.

>> No.6811312

you haven't read it unless you've read the russian, but you have read a translation of it, and if you don't speak russian, that's all you can reasonably hope for
it's absurd to say that macduff or p&v are the 'real' version and garnett's isn't, they're all just versions

>> No.6811317

Reading Garnett's translation is better than not having read it at all.

>> No.6811319

You haven't read it unless you're a christian.

>> No.6811334

>>6811304
>Can you say that you've "read" The Brothers Karamazov if you read the Garnett translation?
Absolutely not.

“The reason English-speaking readers can barely tell the difference between Tolstoy and Dostoevsky is that they aren’t reading the prose of either one. They’re reading Constance Garnett.” -- Nabokov

“I have lost a week already translating passages I need as I can do nothing with Constance Garnett’s dry shit.” -- Nabokov

The famous style of “convulsions” and “nervous trembling” Dostoyevsky wrote, becomes under Garnett’s pen a safe blandscript: not a volcano, but a smooth lawn mowed in the English manner—which is to say a complete distortion of the original.” -- Chukovsky


Garnett is trash and universally hated by native Russian writers. Especially with TBK, the dumb bitch didn't even figure out that Alyosha was actually narrating the story and hyping his own virtue, which ruins the books completely as every carefully constructed device to show this gets erased.

>> No.6811347

>>6811334

garnett rekt

>> No.6811352

not op, is there a translation which does a good job?

>> No.6811353

>>6811352
Can't actually confirm because I don't speak russian, but P&V are supposedly good.

>> No.6811373

Is sydney monas a decent translator?

>> No.6811380

>>6811373
nobody knows
they either
a) buy into the p & v hype train and think that's the only worthwhile one ever
b) buy into the p & v backlash and think that the second most lauded one (in this case, macduff) is the only worthwhile one ever

>> No.6811381

I've heard some say that she's fine, that many who criticize her simply do so to sound superior.

>> No.6811384

>tfw Polish
>tfw based Aleksander Wat translation

Feels good

>> No.6811389

>>6811384
Have you been to Russia or know any Russian?

>> No.6811401
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6811401

>>6811304

>> No.6811418

>>6811389
No, although my parents know Russian

>> No.6811537

any spanish speakers here? looking for a good translation of TBK in spanish

>> No.6811558

Garnett is a memetranslator

>> No.6811580

>>6811352
>>6811353
P/V reads far too awkwardly; I'd reccomend McDuff from what i've read but do some research yourself (download pdfs etc) and find who ya like

>> No.6812158

>>6811304
That person is a pleb.

Garnett>P&V

>> No.6812169

>>6811334
>native Russian writers
>quoted Nabokov 2/3 times
Ok

There's not a general consensus on this, you know that right? It isn't like Fagles vs Lattimore.

>> No.6812186

Interesting article about this very topic.

turns our all translations have flaws. You should start learning russian

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/11/07/the-translation-wars

>> No.6812191

>>6811334
>Nabokov
Have you read HIS translations?

i wouldn't let that man translate Russian air-conditioner installation manuals, much less a novel. His opinion means nothing.

>> No.6812192

>>6812169
one of his Nabokov quotes was actually said by Joseph brodsky

>> No.6812195

What about Oliver Ready's Crime and Punishment translation?

>>6812186
What a useless advice.

>> No.6812196

>>6811304
>tfw Slav
>tfw learning Russian was extremely easy because of it, so I got to experience Dostoevsky's novel in their full glory
Seriously, no translation can compare to the real deal. Even translation to MY language somewhat sucked in comparison to the original and it's much closer than Garnett.

>> No.6812201

>>6812195
for someone like you I would suggest you stick to picture books, lazy pleb

>> No.6812203

>>6812196
There's this qt from Russia whom I work with. I wonder if she's read it.

>> No.6812206

>>6812201
You're not fluent in Russian either, you moron.

I bet English is the only language you can read.

>> No.6812207

>>6812195
His advice isn't useless. That's a great article. Much better than saying "Garnett a shit because Nabokov, who can't translate Go Dog Go into Russian, said so."

>> No.6812212

Anyone read Magarshack's translations? I'm reading McDuff for the main works but I'll probably read Magarshack for Notes from the Underground

>> No.6812225

>>6812203
Probably yes. I mean, it's mandatory to read Dostoevsky in Russian schools.

>> No.6812233

>>6812207
Telling people to learn a language when people are asking about the pros and cons of certain translation is useless advice because, not only does it have nothing to do with the question, it also is not something for the vast majority of anyone in this board.

Learning Russian to university graduate level so you can not only understand the text but also its nuances and depth for 5 novels isn't worth it.

While you're at it, go learn Attic Greek, Latin, Italian, French, German and Spanish. Don't bother with any translation of the non-English classics.

>> No.6812290

An anon posted this a while ago.
Any opinions about it?

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>> No.6812349

why the hell are all karamazov threads about translations? can't we talk about the book itself?

>> No.6812350

>>6812290
So he approves of Garnett?

>> No.6812360

>>6812350
there aren't just two versions of this book, or most big russian classics. people act like you either have to read garnett or p & v, pick a side and stick with them for everything

>> No.6812365

>>6812233
>when people are asking about the pros and cons of certain translation is useless advice
Yet that entire article addresses the pros and cons of certain translations. He was merely saying they're all flawed in some way. Did you read it? Can you read?

>> No.6812432

>>6812206
>everyone must be as dumb as me.

it only takes 6 months to learn well enough o be able to read you insecure bitch.

>> No.6812474

>>6812432
Russian is one of the most difficult languages. It would take years, unless you're a savant.

>> No.6812509
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6812509

>>6812474
>tfw you're not a savant

>> No.6812571

>>6812474
To learn to read? I learned spanish, admittedly much easier, but I could read and understand Don Quixote after 5 months. I think if you really stuck with it you might not be fluent but you would be able to read it in under a year.

>> No.6812592

>>6812350
Yes, but only for some books.
He mainly criticizes P&V for missing some nuances in their translations.

>> No.6812595

>>6812571
Spanish is easy as fuck. Russian has six cases. If you don't know what that means, you're even more out of your depth than you realize.

>> No.6812598

>>6811334
>Alyosha was actually narrating the story and hyping his own virtue
is this established, or just speculative?

>> No.6812927

Does anyone know what season The Brothers Karamazov is set in? I've been trying to set up a detailed setting in my mind and might have overlooked the season.

>> No.6812945

>>6812927

Doesn't it span multiple seasons?

>> No.6812990

>>6812927
It's russia so I just imagine snow everywhere.

Is this ok?

>> No.6814659

>>6811537
Porrua si soportas los cambios de nombres (Alyosha=Alejo)

>> No.6814672

>>6812349
His only good work besides Crime and punishment, though the ending is shit.

>> No.6815092

>>6812598
It's not even speculative. It's a local meme.

>> No.6815147

>mfw am Russian and know the language fluently
>mfw haven't read any of the classics

feels bad, I should remedy it

>> No.6815160

>>6812595
knowing what cases are is entry-tier for language learners mate

>> No.6815162

>>6815092
>memes 4 reelz

>> No.6815168

>>6812927
It's not cold enough to be winter, and from the way he describes the trees, buildings, and characters outfits, my guess is summer into autumn.

>> No.6815204

>>6815147
игe шa epyкy шы тщ пщв, шы yмyкнepштп фддщцyв?

>> No.6815213

>>6814659
No, quiero una version completa y con los nombres de verdad

>> No.6815231

>>6815213
si eres de España, hay una editorial que se llama Alba que tiene los hermanos karamazov y lo traduce directamente del ruso. Además en tapa dura y bonita, yo la tengo y te la recomiendo.

>> No.6815567

>>6812349
well i can't read it if i don't have a good translation can't i you fucking idiot

>> No.6815761

>>6812212
I stuck with Penguin classics and read the Wilks translation of Notes and The Double, which were both really good.

>> No.6816474

>>6815204
u wot m8