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/lit/ - Literature

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6797179 No.6797179 [Reply] [Original]

Help me understand this /lit/ . What was the point? was there an allegory that i missed?

>> No.6797244

the genius of kafka is his ambiguity. there are layers of meaning depending on how much you want to dig. there are aspects of his stories that you discover with subsequent readings.

what'd you get out of it? it's a quick read. try a closer reading where you take your time if this is for some school assignment.

>> No.6797248

>>6797244
>the genius of it is that he's too stupid to say something himself so you have to for him
no the humanities is irrelevant

>> No.6797254

>>6797248
Please leave the literature board

>> No.6797256

What about it confuses you?

>> No.6797264

>>6797248
Are they? Irrelevant to what?

>> No.6797269

>>6797248
I'm trying to avoid giving him an "answer" and find out his own ideas and maybe help him there.

but yeah if the humanities are irrelevant to you...doesn't that make your posts here irrelevant?

>> No.6797355
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6797355

SCHIZO
C
H
I
Z
O


and if you think otherwise, then, you're irrefutably a pleb

>> No.6797364

>>6797244
I got the factor of unfair isolation disdain Gregor experiences and how he is stoic in the face of it and in the end he dies just like everyone else despite his uniqueness. This for me made the book quite bleak which contrasts the humorous manner of the main plot device (turning into a cockroach)

Also obviously the complete absurdity of it that might reference the absurdity of human life?

>>6797256
usually stories tend to have an overlying main theme but this one just seems like many secondary themes

>> No.6797369

dude's a beetle. pretty crazy stuff.

what else could happen to him that would make his family treat him that way?

>> No.6797376

>>6797369
hes NEET?

>> No.6797380

>>6797364
>Also obviously the complete absurdity of it that might reference the absurdity of human life?
It's an overlooked fact that Kafka laughed himself to bits when he read parts of his writing to friends, it's a specific dark and absurd humor that we're somehow always overlooking

>> No.6797400

>>6797376
unemployment is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. if NEET was the whole problem, he could just go out and look for another job.

think about the attitude of the family. they know they should feel pity and look after him, but they resent him and are ashamed of him, trying to hide him from the world.

>> No.6797415

>>6797179
It's about the main character who starts to show his 'inner self' to society and so on. Re read it and pay attention to the details, you'll get it.

>> No.6797448

>>6797400
It was written in 1915 so could it be about disability of veterans from WW1?

>>6797415
>inner self
not sure what you mean here. Is it that he can no longer bear the strain of his responsibilities and breaks down?

>> No.6797493

>>6797448
I mean by "inner self" a part of the character's personality that he had been hiding from the others because of fear of rejection, given the repulsive aspects of it .
My english is kinda shitty so I couldn't find a better word for it lol

>> No.6797620

>>6797493
so in that case his inner self does not matter, it is just meant to be substituted with what our inner flaws are

>>6797448
>>6797400
what do you think it is?

>> No.6797630

anything that causes that reaction. i think mental illness (severe depression?).

>> No.6797670

I think it's asking what it means to be human in a society that needs to use you. Gregor Samsa is still the same being. A famous example is when he is moved by his sister's violin playing. And yet his family is repulsed by him and no longer has any use for him if he's not useful financially. He gradually shrinks throughout the book and dies a pointless death. Kafka had the darkest humour ever. I always associate black humour with American writers, but these Europeans were on some twisted next level shit

>> No.6798303

>>6797670
>black humor

You mean dark humor, you fucking faggot

>> No.6798306

>>6798303
Could be a German stumbling over a false friend, in German "dark humor" is "Schwarzer Humor", black humor

>> No.6798345

My favorite part of Kafka is that there's no metaphor nonsense. It's just a story about a man who turns into a rat.

>> No.6798347

it's an allegory for mental illness, gregor suffered from depression that is why he never leaves, cant talk, cant be helped, and barely anyone cares for him. somewhat autobiographical, you should read about kafka's life.

>> No.6798358

>>6798345
>a rat

Just don't

>> No.6798454

Most of Kafka's stories have a strong subtext that deals with his unease about being a Jew an denying Christianity.

>> No.6798456

>>6798454
>/pol/ projecting

>> No.6798469

>>6798456

>misusing "projecting"
>implying all literary interpretation isn't "projecting" to some extent

>> No.6798633

>>6798454
This is blatantly wrong. Most art formulating your own opinions, you impressionable faggot.

>> No.6798637

>>6798633
>>6798454
>This is blatantly wrong. Start formulating your own opinions, you impressionable faggot.

This is what I get for shitposting from my phone

>> No.6798678

>>6797179

Back when I read it I understood is an allegory of someone who becomes useless (possibly due to unemployment or disability) and is not able to fulfill his role in the society.

Instead of helping him become functional again, his family starts to shun him (perhaps they hated him to begin with, and now he's just gone too far?) and tries to hide him from public view. He's become a burden to them, and when he eventually dies, they are not sad at all. Just relieved.

If there's a deeper subtext to the story I missed it. Then again, I read it fifteen years ago or so.

>> No.6798804

One of the themes I thought was interesting was that of economic viability and the role capital and currency plays in our intimate relationships.

I liked the contrast between the way Gregor describes his father when Gregor was still employed to the way he perceives his father after Gregor loses his financial stability and his father acquires work at the bank.

>> No.6798839

>>6798804
Well, his family were heavily dependent on his income; I'm sure any father would be upset with his son becoming a NEET

>> No.6799605

bump for interest

>> No.6799620

>>6797179
I only read it once in high school and I definitely wasn't looking for themes or symbolism. I did cry when the sister kicked him out of the house, though. That being said, when I think back to it I think of it as a commentary on feeling isolated/seriously depressed

>> No.6799812
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6799812

>>6797179
The main mistake that people make with this book is that they try to project meaning onto it, and try to apply deep analogies and metaphor to the story.

The fact is, is that this book is science fiction.

It's literal. It is nothing more than the life of a man who wakes up one day, literally, a giant insect, and the events that follow. It's a sci-fi horror story, that's all. There is no layered meaning, it's just a literal, surface-level story. That's the true genius behind it, it's a god-tier troll.

>> No.6799846

>>6799812
pretty sweet photo, tbh

check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDjmW-gIsKs

>> No.6799980

>>6797364
As other anon said, Kafka and his buds thought his writing was funny as shit. Although I want to play it another way as well along with earlier comments about the ambiguous nature of The Metamorphosis allowing for multiple interpretations.

What if turning into a bug was an act of divine retribution towards Gregor? He provided for his family very well, to the point of limiting his own potential to a great degree. Perhaps someone who does not value their potential no longer deserves it? Thus, he was turned into a bug and pushed aside by his formerly dependent family.

>> No.6800194

>>6799812

Are you sure about that? I'm fairly certain Kafta said "anybody who reads this short story beyond a work of fantasy is an intelligent person".

>> No.6800250

>>6800194

Kafka*

>> No.6800279

>>6798303
black humor is most definitely a hallmark of american lit

>> No.6800461

>>6799812

Thanks for the new wallpaper.

>> No.6800478

>>6800194
...How many times must it be repeated? Kafka was a writer with a sense of humor. He was being ironic, or as someone not up their own ass would say, "making a joke".

Everyone that missed the joke is falling over themselves trying to make themselves seem intelligent to a standard that their mental image of Kafka set for them, where the real Kafka was joking, and would be laughing his ass off as they flail in completely the wrong direction.

>> No.6800508

The story is purposely broad as an allegory. Whatever it is that makes him into a vermin is irrelevant because there are so many factors that just picking one would defeat the purpose.

The main point is that if you intend to rely on others, you have to contribute value in some way as well. The guy required his family to do so much for him when nothing he could provide, even his company, was worth it, so they abandoned him. Any affliction that prevented you from contributing all value would be what turns you into a vermin like he became. It's fine to live independently, but if you don't want to depend on others you must be self-sufficient, and if you do depend on them you have to provide value as well to not just be a vermin/parasite.

>> No.6800511

>>6800478

Interesting perspective, but I'm not sure whether I entirely agree with it.