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/lit/ - Literature


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6775821 No.6775821 [Reply] [Original]

Explain to me again why we consider the Bible "literature"?

>> No.6775831

Cultural momentum.

>> No.6775834

>>6775821
because its a creative and imaginative work of fiction

>> No.6775836

>>6775821
kek didn't you just get banned?

>> No.6775837

>>6775821
Explain to me why do you feel the need to ruin this board with your worthless battle threads ?

>> No.6775844
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6775844

To call it mere literature is an insult.

>> No.6775846

>>6775836
Is being an atheist against the rules now?

>> No.6775848

>>6775821
Penn Jillette has never read the bible. That's okay though, because he's only a comedian and nobody actually takes his opinions seriously.
Right?
>>6775837
Because Reddit's down and the users feel like they need to fulfill the 'spooky anonymous is leegun 4chan man' archetype.

>> No.6775867

>>6775821
Because of its presence in a large portion of literary canon with constant commentary and allusion. You will fail to understand much of what is considered literature if you do not familiarize yourself with the bible. Also as far as literary theory it is through the bible we gain hermeneutics a tool in the analysis of what we call literature.

>> No.6775868

>>6775848
it's been happening all summer and even into march and april

>> No.6775869

Man I can barely get past Joshua. I keep repeating the mantra "you're gaining cultural literacy" but it ain't working...

>> No.6775894

>>6775869

1. don't read it in order.
2. make sure you're reading a translation that works for you
3. read one book at a time, not the whole bible at once.
4. read commentaries on the books as you finish them.

That helped me anyway.

>> No.6775896

>>6775869
Joshua is sweet if you like tactics

>> No.6775906

>>6775894
It's the KJV, "indispensible" according to /lit/ though I wonder as my religious friends do the NIV and ESV I think.

Yeah honestly I should jump to the Gospels but I'm jewish and feel like I should read the OT.

>> No.6775910

>>6775896
I didn't finish it but there was a whole lot of indiscriminate killin' and plunderin'

But wait YWYH could never be indiscriminate

>> No.6775914

>>6775821
Is this a real quote lol

>> No.6775915

>>6775906
>It's the KJV, "indispensible" according to /lit/ though I wonder as my religious friends do the NIV and ESV I think.

KJV for literary purposes, the others for scholarly.

Shame you aren't enjoying it. I'm always for putting down books you aren't enjoying, but on the other hand, if there was one book I'd say someone ought to force themselves through it's The Bible (KJV).

>> No.6775924

>>6775906
People don't like the King James version because they find the language intimidating and they're afraid it will deter people, although for its time the King James really didn't use complex language, it was written to be simple and straightforward, though very lordly.

If you're Jewish, why not Robert Alter's translation of the Tanakh? It's the only OT English translation that I know of which is as literary as the King James, even if it's not nearly as influential.

>> No.6775929

>>6775924
>If you're Jewish, why not Robert Alter's translation of the Tanakh?

Even Alter recommends reading the KJV, no? But yes, he's much more accessible and has excellent commentary.

>> No.6775930

>>6775915
An annotated King James is great for scholarly. Even Robert Alter, who is Jewish, said it is the best English translation of the Bible (I don't know if he was counting his own), despite its imperfections, because the Bible is very literary in Hebrew and any translation that doesn't account for that is horrible.

>> No.6775938

>>6775929
Yeah, he does. That's because the Biblical Hebrew is top drawer prose and verse (although as you probably know, Biblical Hebrew verse is through parallelism rather than meter). But having compared quite a few translations, not only do I find that the King James isn't as full of errors as people make out, but taking into account Early Modern English definitions, it's actually more accurate than many translations popular today, especially the NRSV which is all the rage in every denomination.

>> No.6775946

>>6775930
Oh I agree, which is why I only ever recommend KJV and Alter's too, but that's still approaching it from a literary perspective. Other translations (I like NET) are better for the religious student perspective, IMO (though there's something to be said about how religious text ought to be beautiful).

>> No.6775965

Browsing around, came across this: http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Genesis-Illustrated-Crumb/dp/0393061027

Looks neat

>> No.6775974
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6775974

>>6775894
>make sure you're reading a translation that works for you

as if god had more than one translation in mind!

>> No.6775980

>>6775974
>translation

>> No.6775987
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6775987

>>6775821

>> No.6776004

>>6775869

You need to either read the original Greek and Hebrew, or at least Jerome's Latin version. Any thing else is pure pleb.

>> No.6776011

>>6775980
or is that where the tower of babel comes in? LOL!

>> No.6776014

>>6775946
Since Jews, Christians, and Muslims each have very different perspectives on the Bible, and even within those religious there are denominations which are at extreme odds, if you're going for a religious (as opposed to secular) commentary, it's advisable for you to get the commentary for the religion you have in mind...in fact, if possible, get several, because theologians within that denomination will probably have different outlooks.

>> No.6776019

>>6775821
>Compilation of ancient texts comprising multiple genres, written by a variety of individuals for a variety of purposes.
>It doesn't stand up as literature because it doesn't read like a novel.

Jilette is fucking clueless.

>> No.6776024

>>6775821

Whenever I see a Christian thread, it's always about theology or other Christian topics. Whenever I see an Atheist thread, it's always an attack at something, Christian/Muslim/Whatever. Just let people disagree with you, for fuck's sake.

>> No.6776032
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6776032

>>6776024

This seems to be their modus operandi

>> No.6776041

>>6776032
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avep_1vbUOA

>> No.6776058

>>6776024
well look who's playing jesus christ

>> No.6776070

>>6776024
>>6776032
>>6776041
fuck off termites
>>>/pol/

>> No.6776078

>>6775821
this has to stop

get it together hotpockets, you delete john green threads but leave this up

useless fucking newfag janitors

>> No.6776097

>>6776004
I can read Hebrew but I sure as shit don't know what it means

>> No.6776100

>>6776078
they delete John green threads? for what purpose?

>> No.6776106

>>6776100
So retards like you will fuck off

>> No.6776107

>>6775821
I for one agree.

The Bible is a fucking bore and least of all interesting.

>> No.6776129

>>6775821
That's retarded. He's retarded.
Take his criticisms and apply it to a book like Blood Meridian. Blood Meridian is one of the most critically acclaimed books. The language in it is biblical, there is no obvious plot, etc.. etc...

You're also forgetting about the fact that "books are made out of books." Most of literature alludes to the bible.

Try reading the bible, it's fucking great. Shit's intense.

You're probably just unread or trolling. If you're trolling 7/10 got me to reply, and everyone in this thread is retarded.

>> No.6776130

>>6776106
has it worked?

>> No.6776144

>>6776107
>>6775844
>>6775821

>/illiterate/

>> No.6776173

There is great literature in the Bible, like the stories in Genesis, Ruth and Samuel, and more contemplative things like Ecclesiastes.

But most of it is there for a purpose. The purpose of the Old Testament is to say over and over that a particular piece of land belongs to a particular group of people, because God wants it to be that way. And to provide a comeback to people who said "well, then why were those people taken into exile" by saying "God wanted it that way because they weren't holy enough, but that was back then and it's different now".

And the purpose of the New Testament is to give a little feel-good philosophy but mostly to say "you're going to get tortured forever in the afterlife unless you believe this book and convince other people to believe it".

>> No.6776189
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6776189

ITT

>> No.6776193

>>6776107
Which books have you read?

>> No.6776195

>>6775821
>don't read the bible for a moral code
but it's kinda alright in that

>> No.6776196
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6776196

>>6775906
You should read a roadmap to the nearest gas chamber kike.

>> No.6776202

>>6775974
But anon, how did God write the Bible when he has no physical pens or quills?

>> No.6776208

>>6776202
did you miss the part where he's omnipotent and doesn't need any of that shit

>> No.6776238

>>6776208
Then how did it first reach the printed word? Did a book just fall out of the sky? Did priests under the—ahem—influence of God just become inspired and write what He told them?

If he's omnipotent you'd think he'd have a more effective way of spreading his word than through stories that pass through altering translations and misinterpretations.

>> No.6776547

>>6776058

I'd rather have a religious delusion than spend time with idiotic bigots like you.

>> No.6776559

>>6776032
>posts 2
>posts 1182

kek

also
>>6775821
>Penn Gillette (ironic name for a neck-beard) reads for plot

not surprised

>> No.6776601

>>6776208
If god is omnipotent and the bible is the word of god, than either everything that the bible says must be true or it is not the book of god.

>> No.6776617

>>6775906
Do you know Hebrew?

>> No.6776623

>>6776559
>can't even read properly to get his meme done right

>> No.6776635

>>6776070
Epic post.
>>>/r/atheism

>> No.6776648

>>6775821
Why are grown men so proud of realizing religion is silly? I had that revelation when I was nine, but you move on with your life because whether god is real or not and whether people believe in one or not has almost no impact on your life. Wow, once in a while people mention god, who gives a fuck?

>> No.6776653

>>6776648
>has almost no impact on your life
lel you must live in a hole if you think this is true

>> No.6776662

>>6776653
No, I just don't live in the US.

>> No.6776670

>>6776635
*tips mushroom
>>>/r/Christianity

Ironically, r/christianity is the origin of the mass christposting.

>> No.6776690

>>6776670
Epic post

>> No.6776786

>>6776617
I can read it. I also took two years for the language requirement in college but have forgotten everything. I don't understand what the words mean.

>> No.6776795
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6776795

Does anyone really get upset that there's not a single, unified plot thread in a compendium of an entire culture's favorite stories, histories, law codes, etc.? You might as well bitch about the lack of narrative continuity in Bulfinch's Mythology.

>> No.6776802

>>6776795
the Bible and Bulfinch's Mythology aren't comparable you pleb

>> No.6776822

>>6776024
Nigga u cant be serious. Christposting is usually antagonistic

>> No.6776980

>>6776822

Not in my experience, but whatever.

>> No.6777023

>>6776208
>God is speaking through this vessel.

You're a faggot anon. You're a faggot that should kill himself. Also, you're not going to heaven.

>> No.6777040

There's nothing wrong with the Bible being literature.

Just keep in mind that it's incredibly bad literature that stunts the mind as soon as it's taken seriously

>> No.6777046
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6777046

>>6776635

>> No.6777056

who let all these plebs in here who have read three books and for some reason think all books must be used to contain a single type of narrative structure

who the fuck taught you about anything? you self-taught?

>> No.6777059

>>6775846
No, but being an obnoxious atheist should be a bannable offence.

>> No.6777070

>>6777059

>your posts end where my religious feelings begin

Literally feminism tier

>> No.6777074

>>6777070
>your logic ends where my fedora begins

>> No.6777079

>>6777059

>agree with me or be courteous. failure to do so results in immediate ban

fuck off

>> No.6777080

>>6775869
wtf? joshua judges samuel are like the best ones

>> No.6777085

>>6775846
Are you implying atheists don't consider The Bible to be literature? That's immature and idiotic. I'm an atheist myself and yet I can not deny that The Bible is one of the most important works of literature ever for it has influenced so many societies.
You're fedora-tier and you should be ashamed of yourself.

>> No.6777087

>>6777085
Not that guy but, to be fair, a lot of New Atheists don't. Of course they are idiots and should be promptly disregarded, but they absolutely exist.

>> No.6777094

>>6776980
>Christposters in pagan/gnostic threads
>heretics! heretics! Worshipers of Satan

>Christposters in bait threads(created by them)
>tips fedora
>muh bible is the most influential book of all time
>muh Aquinas

>Christposters by themselves
>Protestants are heretics
>Enjoy your idolatry catholics

and so on and so forth

>> No.6777098

>>6777087
New Atheism? What is that, some kind of pseudo-religion masked as non-belief so they appear rational? Lmao, I'm glad this shit doesn't exist in my country. I guess it's because atheism is largely mainstream here, so being an atheist doesn't mean being an edgy contrarian faggot in these circumstances.

>> No.6777100

>>6777094

Alright. I guess should pay more attention. It would be more surprising to encounter tolerant people on this site, anyway.

>> No.6777105

>>6777098

'New Atheists' refers to the Dawkins and Hitchens following crowd.

>> No.6777110

>>6777098
>New Atheism?

This unfortunately popular wave of Atheism generally characterized by shit like scientism, anti-philosophy, closemindedness, hostility, superiority complex, naive anti-realism, naive utilitarianism, etc.

I'm an agnostic so don't take me as a bitter Christposter, New Atheism is just cancer at its purest.

>> No.6777112

>>6777110
Oh, don't know how I missed STEM-worshiping philistines.

>> No.6777817

>>6775924
but tanakh doesnt include new testament

>> No.6778831

>>6777817
Robert Alter never translated the new testament.

>> No.6778840

It's cool to be atheist now like how it was cool to be bisexual a few years ago.

>> No.6778849
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6778849

>>6777094
>I can't handle the bantz because the fedora is too close to how I actually live my life

>> No.6778853

>It sure isn't great literature
Other than changing the English language forever and inspiring everything that followed.

>> No.6778860
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6778860

Obligatory

>> No.6778869
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6778869

>>6778860
>people are only religious because they are as bothered by the hat meme as I am
>once the meme dies out they will become enlightened like myself
kek

>> No.6778871

>>6778849
>hurdur i-it is no shitposting it is just b-bantz d-do you w-wear a fedora or something
>implying i am an atheist

It is not bantz if you really mean it dumbass

>> No.6778891

>>6778871
>implying this thread isn't shitposting

who cares what people mean they're strangers on the internet don't let it hurt your feelings so much you massive pussy

>> No.6778912

>>6778860
Something not being falsifiable means it can't be demonstrated to be inaccurate. If Christian beliefs could be, then they'd be falsifiable, regardless of the acceptance of that among Christians.

>> No.6778922

>>6778891
When have i made the implication that this thread is shitposting?

It matters if you want to call it bantz. Bantz implies that you don't mean what you say and that you only said it in mere jest. Otherwise it is just shitposting.

> don't let it hurt your feelings so much you massive pussy
I am just pointing out that christposting is the latest form of shitposting on /lit/. You are just trying to deflect this point by labeling it as mere bantz (with a fedora pic to go with no less)

>> No.6778931

>>6776173
>there is great literature in the bible

>genesis
>shit start
>oh boy two people naked
>welp they were so stupid they got tempted by a walking snake
>snake no walk no more
>thanks obama
>oh look four pages of naming ancestors of these shit stupid people
>into exodus
>oh boy more jewish bedtime stories with bad prose

Yeah, much literature. Much knowledge

It's all rehashed Buddhism anyways put to a Jewish tune.

>> No.6778941

>>6778922
I'm gonna let you in on a secret
every thread on /lit/ is a shitpost. 4chan was made for shitposting. Most people come ere for shitposting and bantz. Getting triggered because someone shitposts about a specific thing, in this case christianity means you are taking the thing too seriously and should go outside for a while.

>> No.6778973
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6778973

>>6778941
I am with fine shitposting, but you are simply pretending that isn't so by claiming it is mere bantz

>Getting triggered because someone shitposts about a specific thing, in this case christianity means you are taking the thing too seriously and should go outside for a while.

gr8 b8 m8 i r8 it 8/8

>> No.6779011

>>6776559
Kek. I never noticed that. I'd be ashamed to have posted that much on a college forum.

>> No.6779024

>>6778973
>pretending that isn't so
did you not read the first half of my post or are you just a retard?

>someone suggest my sperging antics are unhealthy
>better pull out my damage control meme and le gr8 b8

I'll let you have the last reply since that kind of thing is probably important to you.

>> No.6779076

lol @ this newfag shit

>but 4chins is just for shitposting and "le banter"
>ne one having a srs discussion is a nerd who tips le fedora!!!111!
>taking something seriously? LOL what kinda geek are you?
>le back to le red le dit

kid, if you wanna shitpost and troll all day, go ahead. doesn't mean everyone here does. Hell, I was 16 at one point. I spent my days trolling Livewire, remember that site? You'll grow up and get bored soon.

>> No.6779084
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6779084

>>6775821
>influences all western literature, no matter how varied they are
>it's shit

>> No.6779089

>>6779076
I'm partial to some MyAnimeList trolling from time to time.

>> No.6779095

>>6779076
>muh secret club for muh intellectual discussions with muh nonimus frends
>means a lot to me
how well adjusted you must be.

>> No.6779108

>>6777094
>the bible
>not the most influential book of all time
Not just fedora, but plain wrong as well

>> No.6779113

>>6779076
not that guy but if you really on /lit/ for serious discussion you are probably a pseudo. If the trolling and shitposting bothers you it's best not to respond to it.

>> No.6779118

Who cares about influence? It's crap if you read it beyond its historical importance.

>Christians trying to make their little book relevant again.

>> No.6779127

>>6779089
Is that Boxxy's gig?

>> No.6779157

>>6778869
I'm sure most atheists acknowledge that we currently lack much insight into the origins of the universe and that we could always learn more

Christians claim to have all the answers because a book written by several dessert dwellers over the course of a 3 thousand years tells them so and that they wont need any other answers because all other faiths and beliefs are falsified by the devil.

>> No.6779200

>>6779108

The Bible is like The Beatles of literature. They even have the same initials.

>> No.6779219

>>6779200
What, you mean overrated?
I agree that the beatles are, but you're seriously comparing a 50 year old band to a several millennia old book.

>> No.6779876

>>6778869

This isn't really what atheists actually believe at all. Is the only form of defense for christfags is to be scientifically illiterate?

>> No.6779892

>>6779200
THE FACT THAT

>> No.6779902

>>6779200
They were bigger then jesus m8

>> No.6779905

>>6779876
you don't even know what you believe

>> No.6780014

>>6779157
>Christians claim to have all the answers because a book written by several dessert dwellers...
If you want to know what Christians claim, look at the Catholics, Orthodox and even the Anglicans, not Pat and Bob's fringe sect that started last monday

>> No.6780018

>>6780014
Amen.