/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6763343]

Is Zizek full of shit? I just listened to his discussion of Christianity and it seems like he's just scrabbling together various vague phrases and throwing them out. And then he just says "....because there is no God", as if these strands of words were connected in any sense. Plus he defended Calvinism.

[Anonymous No.6763354]

>>6763343

>Is Zizek full of shit?

yes but that's the fun of it

[Anonymous No.6763382]

>>6763343
I would consider Zizek's writings on Christianity some of the most cogent and legitimate theory he's done.

His "Kung Fu Panda isch precishely contemporary ideologiesch" stuff that gets published in the Guardian or wherever and gets popular online is often pretty tenuous and he frequently admits to not watching/reading what he's talking about but his less meme theory, Hegel-Lacan stuff like The Most Sublime Hysteric and his writing on religion, is the real thing and great.

[Anonymous No.6763384]

>>6763343
Sometimes. He says a few very lucid things and he's a very entertaining speaker, but like most people he has moments of absolute bullshit.

[Anonymous No.6763387]

Yes, that's the point of continental philosophy. Be as obscure as possible, so no one can tell that what you're saying is either quite simple or total nonsense.

[Anonymous No.6763388]

>>6763382
>I would consider Zizek's writings on Christianity some of the most cogent and legitimate theory he's done.

This. What specifically about his stuff on Christianity did you have reservations about, OP?

[Anonymous No.6763392]

>>6763382
>the real thing

But what is Coke, "the real thing"? Coke "that's it"?

[Anonymous No.6763393]

>>6763387
What is the point of analytic philosophy? Please also provide an equally strawmanned example.

[Anonymous No.6763402]

>>6763393
To make clear and logical statements so they will not be misunderstood.

[Anonymous No.6763409]

>>6763387
That it took 4 whole replies for this to descended into Analytic Continental shit-flinging is pretty good for /lit/

[Anonymous No.6763530]

>>6763409
So continentals are niggers?

[Anonymous No.6763539]

>>6763530
The real evil of imperialism is that in so attempting to debase the negro, Europe in and of themselves became the Primeval Negro.

[Anonymous No.6763540]

>>6763539
>Primeval Negro
What is it with continentals and their inability to properly use capital letters? Is it because Hegel liked to randomly capitalise words?

[Anonymous No.6763545]

>>6763540
Yes, Precisely.

[Anonymous No.6763546]

>>6763343
all he does is say "both sides are wrong" and sniffs a ton

[Anonymous No.6763550]

>>6763540
>properly
What a Problematic, Abelist word.

[Anonymous No.6763553]

>>6763540
>>6763545
>>6763550
The real answer is it because undue capitalization provides easy emphasis without the need to improve a sentence's articulation, and in situations where more crude tools such as italics, bold font, brackets, and spoilers, would attract backlash.

[Anonymous No.6763559]

>>6763553
No, It Is Because As A Marxist I Recognise That Every Word Is Of Equal Value, As They All Contribute To, And Are Necessary For, The Overall Sentence.

[Anonymous No.6763563]

>>6763553
>>6763545
>>6763540

No, thats not it at all.

Its literally just to distinguish the metaphysical/ontological sense of the word from the every day sense of the word.

For instance "for the being with dasein Dasien is at issue"

This is necessary because its actually a moment of value swapping in the use of the term and its absolutely necessary to indicate which you are referring to

[Anonymous No.6763566]

>>6763559
It's kinda annoying when people take someone's words out of context and make retarded "hurrrrrrr look she wrote dumb thing"

[Anonymous No.6763576]

>>6763566
>out of context
Unless she prefaced that piece with 'only a total moron would say...' then there is no context that could justify her stupid comment.

[Anonymous No.6763584]

>>6763566
quote mining is for sure retarded, and i would even go so far as to read that quote in context.

But being entirely real with you, I have a legitimately hard time believing that quote could be in any context that did not read as fundamentally retarded.

[Anonymous No.6763602]

>>6763559
Why do I hate these people so much?

[Anonymous No.6763620]

>>6763343
Zizek is better when he writes. In public, he rambles a lot, makes jokes, he's nervous and sneezes and drools all over his shirt.
He can say a lot of meaningful things though but you gotta pay real attention cause with his accent and his speedy pace, it's hard to pick up a lot of substance.

[Anonymous No.6763640]

Material theology is the most contradictory phease continentals have found since body without organs

[Anonymous No.6763642]

>>6763566
That quote might be the most retarded bit of theory ever written. Some things can't be saved by context.

[Anonymous No.6763659]

>>6763402

>200 years later, still misunderstood.

Git gud.

[Anonymous No.6763664]

>>6763343
Did you listen to an actual lecture, or just his comments on The Last Temptation of Christ? The latter is good, but he simplifies his standpoint, since it's for a pop movie.

[Anonymous No.6763701]

>>6763659

[Anonymous No.6763706]

>>6763387
>analytic philosophy
>literally make up a logical symbol and make a career out of justifying it

Literally this has happened

Analytic philosophy is far more obscurantist than continental

[Anonymous No.6763718]

>>6763706
Analytic philosophy is logical, actually. Logic precedes analytic philosophy, by the way.

[Anonymous No.6763725]

>>6763718
>analytic philosophy is logical

[Anonymous No.6763727]

>>6763387
Unless he's full Lacan, Zizek is still pretty comprehensible, even when discussing The Spook King Hegel.

You're probably retarded.

[Anonymous No.6763733]

>>6763727
Even Baudrillard, D&G and others aren't that hard to grasp.

[Anonymous No.6763742]

>>6763733
>>6763727
It's not about them being hard to understand, you idiots, it's about them purposefully obscuring simple concepts, concepts which aren't even grounded in evidence and science. They are posturing charlatans and nothing more.

[Anonymous No.6763745]

Well to be quite frank, I think he's the end product of the post-modern intellectual zeitgeist. He's exotic - can you imagine more hipster place then Slovenia? Remember, it is not hip to push it too hard. Also his accent and the peculiar way of speech and mimics make him even more of an interesting character. He's also extremely difficult to understand and what he says is mostly extremely vague and unclear - therefore, anyone can claim to understand his profound thoughts and get a one-up in the ego-game. He deals a lot with pop-culture, which is again appealing to the contemporary intellectualist pseudo-elite (since it's fresh and 'novel' - the ultimate value right now in our society).

In fact, I don't think Zizek was born. I think he crystalised out of the atmosphere of conceptualistic fetishism at the turn of the millenia. We now live in the Aeon of Zizek, and when his powers come to full blossom, numerous plashtic penishes shall be bestowed unto us.

[Anonymous No.6763747]

>>6763733
Haven't read that much Baudri (intend to, but I have a sore taste about his ideas, I feel like he's just giving a negative or, should I say, passive analysis to what Debord - and even McLuhan - had already discussed and attacked to death), but I gotta say, I was skimming through Anti-Oedipal the other day and I felt somewhat dumber than I felt I should.

I mean, I can read D&G, I just can't do it without pestering friends who read them before.

Sorry about the english, I just woke up to work, found out I didn't have to today, and it's cold as fuck and life sucks.

>>6763742
This need for "concepts to be grounded in science" is one of the most sublime ways the Spectacle finds to keep it's validity. It's clearly there, it's your main tool of interpretation in the late capitalist world, but you can't put it under a microscope or anything, so it must not exist.

[Anonymous No.6763752]

>>6763747
>waaah science is le evil
>everything I don't like is capitalism

[Anonymous No.6763758]

>>6763742
>it's about them purposefully obscuring simple concepts
They do not

>They are posturing charlatans and nothing more.
Prove it. Use logic and prove they are posturing charlatans.

Go, give me your premises, a couple definitions, use logic to prove quorum est demonstratum

[Anonymous No.6763760]

>>6763752
>this is literally how ideology functions

[Anonymous No.6763761]

>>6763752
What, I don't even dislike capitalism this much, but you can't deny it still has many faults.

>inb4 USSR, the workers didn't control the means of production there either.

[Anonymous No.6763762]

>>6763752
>xd i'm a good troll

[Anonymous No.6763763]

>>6763402

>Clear and logical statements.

The entirety of the cosmos is in flux - the image of the boolean universe is a fake. Trying to communicate outside of meta-linguistical structures can never be clear, logic (aristotelian, the way we understand it) is just a very comfortable illusion.

[Anonymous No.6763765]

>>6763747
>it's
Comment, trash, etc.

[Anonymous No.6763770]

>>6763745
I enjoyed your post anon, well done.

If anyone else found his post amusing do a kindness and congratulate anon on his post.

[Anonymous No.6763774]

>>6763761
>2015
>believing in the working class

[Anonymous No.6763786]

>>6763774
>There are still people working sweatshops to build my computer filled to the brink with Quine and Ayn Rand fanfics
>but there is no working class guise :^)
>Let me just put on my new balances and sweatpants produced in Mexico or some other shithole, gotta go to the market to buy more doritos

[Anonymous No.6763797]

>>6763760
>ideology is a singular concept
Kill yourself

[Anonymous No.6763805]

>>6763763
Aristotelian logic has been obsolete since the 19th century, you fucking moron.

[Anonymous No.6763822]

>Through The Praxis Of Global Transnormative Calvinist Christianity We Can See How Hermenutive Practices In Privilege, Not Non-Privilege, But Rather The Succeeding Forcefully Introduced Meta-Psychoanalytic Heideggerian Dasein, Show, Not Through Mathematical Power Structures, But Through Femocentric, Anarcha-Femino-Normative Workers Revolution, Global Capitalism, With The Aid Of Virtue Ethical, White, Cis, Male Dominance In Science Is Life Denying Real For The End Of Historiographical, Grammatological, Subliminal Real, Denial Of The Trans-Other.

[Anonymous No.6763826]

>>6763797
>singular concept

I honestly can't tell if you just don't know what that term means, or if you are retarded and can't read.

[Anonymous No.6763827]

>>6763826
You just don't understand it. Read Nietzsche first.

[Anonymous No.6763832]

>>6763827
kek

[Anonymous No.6763835]

>>6763827
>if i pretend to be them, i'll destroy them!

do you have a life?

[Anonymous No.6763839]

>>6763835
Don't force you westero-normative conceptions of the Life on me.

[Anonymous No.6763844]

>>6763839

[Anonymous No.6763847]

>>6763839
stem fag is having a meltdown.

this stopped being funny im out.

[Anonymous No.6763851]

>>6763844
>>6763847
Ah, I see the Oedipus is acting out his Subconcious DESIRE to correct The Other.

[Anonymous No.6763859]

>>6763851

[Anonymous No.6763883]

>>6763851
>>6763839
>>6763827

This is what happens when, the STEMfag who just graduated and still haven't received muh 20000k starting, tries to engage in the critique of capitalism.

[Anonymous No.6763894]

>>6763786
>believing that an ideal society contains working class uneducated fuckwits

[Anonymous No.6763896]

>>6763883
>waah white privilege!!!
>if you don't accept my morals you are a racist, homophobic, islamophobic shitlord!!!

[Anonymous No.6763906]

>>6763896
You seem upset my friend, I believe you should meditate on some logical axioms and come back here

[Anonymous No.6763916]

>>6763906
>tumblr
Of course.

[Anonymous No.6763921]

>>6763916
>image.jpg
not suspect at all friend :^)

[Anonymous No.6763931]

>>6763921
I knew tumblr was behind all of this continental bullshit. Only teenage girls could bother with that tripe.

[Anonymous No.6763955]

>>6763931
That's not very logic at all, friend :^)

[Anonymous No.6763960]

>I just listened to his discussion of Christianity and it seems like he's just scrabbling together various vague phrases and throwing them out.

This is basically Zizek on every subject. He's frequently criticized for being incoherent and ambiguous, more qualitative pop appeal than any real superior alternatives or clear direction against the systems he attempts to dismantle.

[Anonymous No.6763966]

>>6763955
How so?

[Anonymous No.6763991]

>>6763745
I congratulate you anon on writing the only intelligent and (surprisingly) witty reply to this shitty thread.

[Anonymous No.6764005]

>>6763931
Continental is the only thing holding back the tide of bullshit inside the humanities.

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

Analytic are all beta cucks like mathematicians, they just bow their heads as long as they can work

[Anonymous No.6764021]

>>6763931
It's amazing how you're all quick to blame this on continental philosophy when every new SJW cuckoldery we get comes from anglophone students, while you have people like Zizek constantly btfoing these people.

[Anonymous No.6764040]

>>6764021
How? By telling them everything is a social construct and that blacks and Muslims are to be accepted?
>>6764005
Yep, Marx is keeping the SJWs out. Top kek.

[Anonymous No.6764045]

I WAS TOLD IT WORKS EVEN IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN IT.

CUT THE BALLS

AND SO ON

[Anonymous No.6764178]

>>6764040
"SJWs" are liberals though. When they talk about class its in the liberal income sense and not the Marxist/leftist sense. If "SJWs" had actual class struggle analysis then maybe they'd actually get something done other than getting big corporations to put more minorities in pop media.

[Anonymous No.6764197]

>>6764178
No, they're socialists and Marxists. That is their Ideology.

[Anonymous No.6764201]

>>6763559
There is nothing remotely "Marxist" about that block of inane text.

[Anonymous No.6764202]

>>6764197
>celebrating how the STATE legalizes gay marriage is socialist

oh murrika, how deep you are down the rabbit hole

[Anonymous No.6764209]

>>6764040
Saying anything beyond fucking trees, dogs and butterflies is a social construct = nothing.

That is the sort of inane bullshit liberal, analytical trained people spout when trying to engage in critical theory.

[Anonymous No.6764213]

>>6764178
>"SJWs" are liberals though

They're as illiberal as it gets. Anti-liberal, even.

[Anonymous No.6764214]

>>6764197
How? You can't be a Marxist if you have a liberal class analysis. "SJWs" are at most social democrats trying to make a more humane "fair" capitalism.

The existence of SJW identity politics is a result of the lack of a strong modern socialist movement. It's no surprise that it rose to prominence after the fall of the USSR and when socialism was said to be entirely discredited and the only thing possible thing was to try and make a "fairer" capitalism.

[Anonymous No.6764218]

>>6764202
I'm not American, learn to read.
>>6764209
So all those SJWs who cite Foucault, Lacan and Derrida are still the Enemy to You?

[Anonymous No.6764221]

>>6764214
Just because you don't like the Contemporary Socialist Movement doesn't mean it isn't Socialist.

[Anonymous No.6764233]

>>6764221
Progressives/social democrats are not socialists.

[Anonymous No.6764235]

>>6764233
You really think all SJWs are social democrats? How naïve of you.

[Anonymous No.6764237]

>>6764218
They're not The Enemy, they're just somewhat misguided people hellbent on hyper-analyzing shit as if "problematizing" = revolutionary praxis.

While I do like Derrida and plan to read Foucault very soon, I don't think it's the texts fault, it's the readers.

You haven't put anything in the text to suggest you're not american, while also replicating the typically american idea that "If you're leftist you're necessarily a marxist", there was no way for me to read your un-americaness from what you posted.

[Anonymous No.6764245]

>>6763540
Isn't capitalizing "God" the same thing as what he was doing? Asserting it a greater inflection of importance?

[Anonymous No.6764246]

>>6764235
The overwhelmingly vast majority of SJW are left liberals/progressives/socdems, definitely.

[Anonymous No.6764248]

>>6764218
Also, your conflation of these three very different authors (who could only be gathered within the vague term of post-structuralism) suggests you've read Foucault pretty much the same as the typical american SJW (none)

[Anonymous No.6764251]

>>6764237
>They're not The Enemy, they're just somewhat misguided people hellbent on hyper-analyzing shit as if "problematizing" = revolutionary praxis.
So you haven't even read Foucault and you want to Mansplain to everyone else? You aren't an authority on what is Revolutionary Praxis, grow up.

[Anonymous No.6764256]

>>6764248
>>6764246
Nice generalisations. You clearly know Nothing of the Social Justice Community.

[Anonymous No.6764261]

>>6764251
What, "mansplaining" means nothing in this context.

It's not like you've read Foucault either, since at zero points he cares about anything as "mansplaining" or "revolutionary praxis", he's mainly preocuppied with the genealogical history of some aspects of society.

>>6764256
Please, point me anyone engaged in actual marxist analysis that's preocuppied with your typical identity politics bullshit.

[Anonymous No.6764268]

>>6764261
http://fuckyeahmarxism.tumblr.com

[Anonymous No.6764272]

>>6764256
I know plenty about the social justice movements, a minority of socialists in the movement trying to agitate the left liberals doesn't make it a socialist movement anymore than Bernie Sanders and other progressives in the Democratic party make the Democrats a centre left party.

[Anonymous No.6764273]

>>6764235
>mfw when the whole idea of SJWar is becoming a new axis for contemporary capitalism

Jokes on you pal

[Anonymous No.6764276]

>>6764268
oh, you're just baiting
i see

[Anonymous No.6764281]

>>6764273
Jokes on you, white boi, the revolution starts with the most oppressed people, People Of Colour. America, and then the world, will become like white women in a few years, Black OWNED.

[Anonymous No.6764320]

I'm reading his "living in the end times" right now and it's not bad but he could really use some heavy editing.

He lays out a clear thesis at the beginning of the book saying society is going through the 5 stages of accepting death of global capitalism.

An interesting premise that he spends about 5 paragraphs each chapter on and than rants about Christianity, Kung fu panda or relating it to Lacan.

Now he has some real good insights and I'm enjoying it but it's more a collection of mini essays on random topics than what he laid out in his introduction.

[Anonymous No.6764332]

>>6764268
Weirdly, none of these tumblr posts are SJW, a few aren't even marxist-influenced (like the subcomandante Marcos / EZLN ones) and the only ones that dabble (remotely) in identity politics are more for inclusion against capital than whatever boogeyman the SJWs typically attack, not to mention there are quite a few against liberalism.

So...

[Anonymous No.6764429]

>>6763343
>mulholland drive
>nice, anon

[Anonymous No.6764596]

>>6764221
is this person real

[Anonymous No.6764605]

>>6763745
This seems basically accurate. Even among that subset of intellectuals he isn't noteworthy aside from his antics.

[Anonymous No.6764735]

>>6764320
Yeah he admits that's how he writes; just ramble until you have a product. Pretty dishonest for a critic of capitalism.

[Anonymous No.6764923]

>>6764332
>EZLN
>not marxist-influenced

[Anonymous No.6764928]

>>6764923
The EZLN has always been closer no anarcho-syndicalism than marxism