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/lit/ - Literature

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6760208 No.6760208 [Reply] [Original]

How do I into philosophy?

>> No.6760226

read Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy (people say he's biased because he doesn't 100% accept philosopher's ideas, he can be critical, but nothing he says is wrong), and if you want more details listen to the History of Philosophy Without Gaps podcast.

Or you can waste all your time and take /lit/'s advice and carefully read every single work of philosophy in chronological order (as if that's what every major philosopher did), but I imagine fun and enjoyment are big parts of your life.

>> No.6760239

Wittgenstein was pretty cool, and his tractatus is easy to easy about in 10 minutes. If you seriously wanted to get into it and not just know the basics then start with Thales and progress from there

>> No.6760248

Read Aristotle. Metaphysics. Ethics.

Read Plato. Apology. Thaetatus. Phaedo.

Follow Heidegger's advice and spend 15 years reading Aristotle. Do NOT fall into the Hegelian trap of reading every philosopher from Plato to present and thinking that philosophy is a historical process.

>>6760226
It's better to read nothing than Russell.

>> No.6760253

>>6760226
I'm sure it is a great way to learn but if you wanted a summary of things why not just read online sources like

http://plato.stanford.edu/index.html

>> No.6760273

>>6760226
"nothing he says is wrong"

That claim does not exclude the fact that Russell tends to be a terrible interpreter. Russell's philosophy is interesting within his own purview of philosophy, e.g. positivism and logic.

>>6760248
"Do NOT fall into the Hegelian trap of reading every philosopher from Plato to present and thinking that philosophy is a historical process."

Uh. Heidegger practiced a methodological hermeneutics, which entails the idea that philosophical ideas have a tradition that influence the task of interpretation. And, I am actually sympathetic to the legitimacy of that claim.

>> No.6760282

>>6760273
>implies feelings equal truth

>> No.6760296

>>6760282
Right. So you can divorce yourself from your own perspectival import? How do you do that? Commit suicide?

Some philosophers are terrible interpreters and bring little to no insight regarding other philosophy; that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't bring philosophical insight in their own writing.

>> No.6760304

>>6760273
>purview of philosophy, e.g. positivism and logic.

And logic is wrong?

>> No.6760307

>>6760296
I'm talking about YOUR sympathy. I don't give two measly shits about Burtrand Tussle and George Washington Kegel. Kek.

>> No.6760311

>>6760304

When did I use that word? I merely stated, "Russell tends to be a terrible interpreter." l2readpls

>> No.6760324

>>6760307

Ah, yes, sorry for my misunderstanding, your comment was vague as fuck. I guess you have an idea where my partiality resides, e.g. a form of perspectivism.

>> No.6760333

Say I've started with the Greeks and I wanted to read Schopenhauer, who would I need to read in order to 'understand' him properly? With some philosophers can you get away with just knowing the basics of the ideas they are responding to or critiquing? (for example wiki articling them) or must you read them properly?

>> No.6760336

>>6760333

Plato, Kant and Buddha

>> No.6760337

>>6760324
>needs to get on my level

>> No.6760349

>>6760333
Schopenhauer's theories were completely refuted by Nietzsche in 1888.

>> No.6760353

>>6760226
>fun and enjoyment
Ha! This is /lit/, not /fun/.

>> No.6760356

>>6760208

I just started reading philosophy recently but what I'm planning to do is to read in this order:
Republic by Plato
Nichomachean Ethics by aristotle
The Prince by Machiavelli (i know its not philosophy but a good read)
Meditations by Marco Aurelio

And the I ll see if I read some fiction before continuing

>> No.6760358

>>6760349
He was just an example m90. I was mainly asking how necessary it is to read through philosophy chronologically and to what extent you must read philosopher's predecessors to understand them. Sorry for being a bit vague tbh

>> No.6760362

start with
T H E
G R E E K S

>> No.6760422

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/edit?pli=1#

>> No.6760429

>>6760226
>fun and enjoyment
Ha! This is a thread about into philosophy, not fun and enjoyment.

>> No.6760441

>>6760356
Dude, The Prince is absolutely philosophy. It fits in rather well with works like the Republic and Beyond Good & Evil.

>> No.6760476

Start with the Greeks

>> No.6760519

>>6760441

Great. I tried to reas beyond good and evil first last year but I found it really difficult, there were too many references to books and things I hadnt read so I gave up on it and now started with these books I mentioned before.

Also Im going to read Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes

>> No.6760526
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6760526

>>6760226
>hmm how can I dismiss all this hard philosophy stuff so I don't have to read it and not admit I'm a pleb?

>> No.6760535

STOP POSTING RODIN JESUS CHRIST

FUCK

WHY DO PEOPLE TURN GREAT ART INTO MEMETIC SYMBOLS

>> No.6760538

>>6760358
Someone answer me questions plz

>> No.6760560

>>6760538
>>6760208
start with the official /lit/ guide m8

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/edit

>> No.6760568

>>6760560
that shit is unreadable

>> No.6760574

>>6760568
is english not your first language?

here is a version without suggestions. if you can't read that I would rethink trying to understand philosophy.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/pub

>> No.6760583

>>6760248
What's the prescribed order of reading these texts?

I haven't delved much into Plato or Aristotle, so looking to start.

>> No.6760613

>>6760583
1st tetralogy (getting started): Alcibiades I + Lysis/Laches/Charmides
2nd tetralogy (the sophists): Protagoras +Hippias major/Gorgias/Hippias minor
3rd tetralogy (Socrates'trial): Meno + Euthyphro/Apology/Crito
4th tetralogy (the soul): Symposium + Phædrus/Republic/Phædo
5th tetralogy (logos): Cratylus + Ion/Euthydemus/Menexenus
6th tetralogy (dialectic): Parmenides + Theætetus/Sophist/Statesman
7th tetralogy (kosmos): Philebus + Timæus/Critias/Laws

>> No.6760625

>>6760613
This is intimidating. I have Plato's collected works (Bloom, I think). Are all of these in there?

>> No.6760669

The Talos Principle is a pretty good book, very underrated Philosopher...the penguin classic editions is hard to get tho. Especially after they made a game with the same name about it. >.<

>> No.6760675
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6760675

>>6760226
>recommending Russel
>ever

>> No.6760741

>>6760625
>>6760625
There's probably a shorter plato reading list - this is for full plato mode. They should be; most of them aren't very long btw, some are only a few pages long.

>> No.6760822
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6760822

>>6760208
this is the easiest philosophy book you will EVER read

>> No.6760864

>>6760741
I guess is there some sort of lame infographic guide or something? Honestly curious.

>> No.6761773

>>6760226
>nothing bertrand russel says is wrong
>bertrand russel says statements, when we clarify them using predicate logic, can be true or false but not meaningless
>everything bertrand russel says is right
>which is absurd

Q.E.D

>> No.6761945

>>6760613
I don't know if it helps but Meno + Euthyphro/Apology/Crito are what I've normally seen in collections of Plato, along with the Republic.

>> No.6762421

>>6760226
>>6760248
Thanks for confusing me, I thought I had a good start.

>> No.6762430

>>6760248
>It's better to read nothing than Russell.
shit retards say

the only sections of Russell up for debate are his sections post-Kant dealing with Hegel/Schopenhauer/Nietzsche

there are NO SURVEYS which deal with those three well, its just a fact of life

luckily it makes up less than 10% of the guide, and his wonderful section on scholasticism is unharmed

>> No.6762454

>>6762421
Anyone who recommends getting into the Greeks before reading any contemporary philosophy is an idiot

ask YOURSELF what you want to know about, and we can recommend something

>I want to know more about the world I exist in!
Hume first, his ideas are essential because he basically trashes the trad way of viewing the world before him

then read about Kant and intuition (you dont need to read Kant yet)

then read Schopenhauer for his view of the world dividing it into will (the thing-in-itself) and representation

>I want to know what to DO with my life!
Open for debate where to start. Kierkegaard and Nietzsche are good starting points.

There are also A LOT of great non trad philosophers in this dept, think Augustine, Montaigne, Thoreau or even Hamlet. this is pretty much the pressing question for most artists, so fiction can be big like Don Quixote or Moby Dick

If youre the type thats torn up inside because nothing in the world is certain, read Miguel Unamuno on a Tragic Sense of Life

>I feel like everyone else is a shallow husk of a person
goddammit, read Adorno

>> No.6762466

>>6760208
Read Stirner and then stop.

>> No.6762477

>>6762454
I just want to understand philosophy in general and apply it to all those things.

>> No.6762483

>>6760208
Read everything before Descartes, since him all of philosophy has gone to shit

>> No.6762485

>>6762477
surveys (the ones worth reading anyway) are historical to provide context. no survey will answer those questions satisfactorily.

you should just start reading philosophy

>> No.6762491

>>6762483
>implying it didnt go to shit with Socrates

>> No.6762496

>>6762485
Good, then I guess I'm on the right path after all.

>> No.6762577
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6762577

>>6760208

>> No.6762641

>>6762483
It's the other way. Read nothing before Decartes, since he's the first non shit philosopher

>> No.6762711

>>6760208
Dont bother reading any of greeks (or any other philosopher - including stirner) until you read and understand wittgenstien.

>> No.6763008
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6763008

a meme page is all i need for my philosophy education

>> No.6763018

>>6762641
>material/immaterial dichotomy
>not shit

>> No.6764023
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6764023

>>6763008

>> No.6764137

>>6760476
Phoebe raped youre mom

>> No.6765048

>>6760535
great art already is a meme

but understanding that requires understanding what "meme" actually means and not just thinking it means it gets posted a lot on the internet as a joke

in a few years it will be another word that nobody in planet earth will use correctly, "cuck" already has that status, even though it's not even the complete word

>> No.6765103

>>6760208
This guide is brilliant: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/edit