[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 204 KB, 5000x3300, lgbt..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6742158 No.6742158[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

>You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning...
>And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail.

>> No.6742187

I'm so glad that now people of all politically correct sexual orientations can fall for the bourgeoisie's meme called marriage.

>> No.6742192

>>6742187
Yes, wanting to be able to visit your SO in the hospital is falling for a meme.

>> No.6742200

>>6742158
8/10 based HST to go with that flag

>> No.6742204

>>6742192
Needing to be married to visit someone in the hospital is definitely a meme.

>> No.6742206

The United States is more miserable than ever, though, and the Sixties completely failed. That's exactly why Thompson eventually killed himself.

>> No.6742210

>>6742187
I think this is where there's an interesting point of divergence in OP's pic and text. LGBT rights, like most recent activism, is essentially in peace with the liberal order and seeks only to expand its boundaries. Marriage and the couple stay, but different arrangements are welcomed in it. The economic hierarchy stays, but we need to make it more diverse. The liberal democratic process goes unchallenged, but we have to make it global etc etc. Everything fits the established mold.

The hippies on the other hand were mostly about overthrowing these molds. No couples at all but free love, not private property but socialized property, etc. At least at first anyway.

>> No.6742220

>>6742210
And the hippies failed at doing anything and turned into the baby boomers who basically piled even more problems onto the country.

Current social movements are actually getting things done at least.

>> No.6742251

>>6742210
Why are these molds supposed to be bad again?

>> No.6742252

Great book, Fear and Loathing.

>> No.6742273

Right now it's breaking, but the wave rolls back. In America, globalization and social progressiveness and socialism are undeniably more popular than they've ever been, but I predict we are going to see a growing resistance in the coming years. Think of the rise of various far-right groups and political parties in Europe, where leftists attitudes and politics have been common for much longer than in the United States

The wave rolls back. Excessive diversity and uncontrolled immigration are sowing the seeds of conflict and distrust in almost every Western country. There is an unacknowledged but increasingly vocal neoreactionary minority which is growing in numbers by the day. Your hopes are these people's nightmares. The economic side-effects of regulating the largest free-market economy in the world are probably going to scare and upset many Americans. The Obama-trade agreements will cost these same people their jobs. Discord is coming

The wave rolls back. It could not expand across the beach sands forever, and this is what killed Thompson. Enjoy it while it lasts

>> No.6742276

>>6742220
I don't think so because the hippies were always a minority of young white people concentrated on a few areas. There was always a silent majority against then, but just like any revolution they were affected by them despite being formally against them.

Anyway, what's important is that we have a pattern here.

Despite popular belief, many of the things we associate the 60's with (feminism, gay activism, race equality, de-militarization, free love) were already present in the left-wing intelligentsia of most developed countries. In the 60's these values became "universal" at the expense of the concepts of class struggle, analysis of capitalism, labour activism and so on. You can tell that by the clear division between the "militarized" activism of african-americans and the "peaceful" activism of whites: black people were still struggling for some of the things that the first generation gave whites, and their tactics resembled a lot more the early labour activism and revolutionary class struggle of said generation than the tactics of their white contemporaries.

Our generation, following the same trend, no longer cares about structural analysis as long as the structure in place is "fair" with everyone, fair according to its own set of values, of course.

It's pretty much getting to the point where we can no longer "filter" the initial idea for the sake of popularity and pragmatism any more because there's nothing left that can find common ground with the prevailing ideology. We'll either go full circle or it will die.

>> No.6742280

>>6742251
They're the ideological, social counterparts of material, economic conditions. They're not good or bad, they're merely outdated or not.

>> No.6742284

>>6742158
Lmao as ideologies fall into marketable and consumable forms so companies can profit off their "progressiveness"

>> No.6742291

>>6742284
Agreed. Watch how these Americans cry over a cheeseburger just because its wrapped in a rainbow. I wish people could recognize better when they are being pandered to and manipulated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBkAAortU_g

>> No.6742301

>>6742210
The hippies were, too. The smart hippies took a lot of acid in the 60's, recovered over the course of the 70's, and got rich in the 80's. See Steve Jobs, objectively THE best example of the hippie generation.

>> No.6742303

>>6742273
The backlash already came, and went, you just weren't alive under the reign of reagan, apparently. Almost all reactionary forces, or whatever you want to call them, including those in the muslim world, have their origin in that period of time. What you are witnessing globally is not their return, but their death throes.

>> No.6742304

>>6742273
>Think of the rise of various far-right groups and political parties in Europe, where leftists attitudes and politics have been common for much longer than in the United States

If anything those parties are against globalised, federalist liberalism, and in this respect they're on agreement with the most leftist parties.

>> No.6742319

>>6742291
Yeah tumblr is cringe as fuck right now, I really wish we could get past identity politics

>> No.6742327

>>6742319
I wish we could get past racism, sexism and homophobia too.

>> No.6742334

>>6742319
>I really wish we could get past identity politics

we will. i predict abortion rights, reparations and then that's it, we'll go back to previous forms of activism

this century is going to be so dark

>> No.6742338

I appreciate John Milbank's objection to same-sex marriage

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/03/13/3452229.htm

Marriage is really the public symbol of the association of sex and procreation. It's not that all sex should be about procreation, or that all married couples should procreate, so much as the the association between the two should endure in public consciousness, because the more the two become separated, the more eugenics becomes a thing and the inherent value of a human as a human starts to go down.

Like Milbank I'm fine with civil unions, and gay adoption is far preferable to kids living with foster parents or in an orphanage, but marriage should remain a symbol of the association between sex and procreation. Besides that, if you're going here, it's ridiculous to limit a marriage as between two people; gay marriage seems a parody of conventional marriage, it still acknowledges the idea of marriage being defined as a couple, it just totally ignores the basis for that.

>> No.6742347

>>6742327
Among the working class. There is no point in getting corporate and political leadership past those things, since it's just validating the system.

>> No.6742356

>>6742327
And you seriously think that the way to move past those is through the very system that collectively alienates and fosters violence towards others?

>> No.6742358

>>6742338
>thinking that's a rational point
>ishygddt

>> No.6742359

>You

>we

>Our

>> No.6742361

>>6742338
>http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/03/13/3452229.htm
>religion in the URL
didn't click lol

>> No.6742364

>>6742358
>implying that greentext is any way to invalidate an argument
>2015

>> No.6742365
File: 20 KB, 280x311, nomimous.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6742365

>>6742361

>> No.6742381

>>6742358
That is a rational point. Artificial insemination and designer babies are on the rise, and I don't doubt that abortion in the cases of "defective" children is as well. This is going to dramatically affect society. I'm not claiming Gattaca, but it's going to be Gattaca. The beauty, mystery and majesty of sex is eroding, because it is inextricable from the association of sex and procreation, and that association is considered undesirable...oppressive, even. Euthanasia for "defective" people is a very real possibility if this trend continues.

>> No.6742404

Does this decision actually allow gay people to get married in every state, or does it just mean a marriage in one state is recognised in another?

Won't bother to ask if this is about books.

>> No.6742410

>>6742187
This. What advantages does a marriage have over a civil union

>> No.6742418

>>6742410
Pissing off christians.

>> No.6742426

>>6742404
It allows gay people to get married in every state. I just heard the attorney general of South Dakota talking on NPR about how they're going to issue same sex marriage licenses and change the way they collect marriage records and data even though the state voted against same sex marriage in 2006

>> No.6742433

>>6742158
what a tremendous victory, you gays get to participate in the spiritually empty and financially ruinous practice of marriage

>> No.6742442

>>6742433
ALMOST AS IF THERE WERE SOME SORT OF CONCERTED EFFORT TO DESTROY EVERYTHING UNDERMINING WESTERN CIVILIZATION HUH

>> No.6742448

>>6742206
its.......also....the......point........of..........the.......quote

sorry, i had to break it down, because plebs can sometimes have difficulty absorbing text without breaks

>So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

>> No.6742457

>>6742381
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dialectic_of_Sex

>> No.6742467

>>6742338

great article, thank u

>> No.6742475

Why did gays want marriage so much again?

>> No.6742477

>>6742338

It's like Sain-Just said: in times of innovation, all that is not new is pernicious. It's precisely because marriage serves a symbolic, christian purpose (aside from the obvs civil one) that makes gay marriage important. Society cannot adhere to two mutually incoherent sets of values, and therefore it cannot cherish both christianity and a lifestyle that was/is always under its constant repression. Eventually, one will have to take supremacy over the other. I think the fall of marriage as an institution drawn along christian lines (which started a long time ago) and its beginning drawn along egalitarian ones has a symbolic value on its own.

>> No.6742484

>>6742477
But marriage is a fixed institution, the state can't change anything about it

>> No.6742487

>>6742484
>the state can't change anything about it

It seems that it just did.

>> No.6742488

>>6742475
Marriage is the campest thing imaginable, other than christmas of course.

>> No.6742493

>>6742487
>seems
Sounds right

>> No.6742494
File: 42 KB, 164x222, Imagen 31.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6742494

>>6742475
THIS
When we were dealing with this in my country my dad said something like
>To think that we fought so much in the 60's to get away from government and institutions and now people fight so much to get inside.

>> No.6742513

>>6742494
white people love to live on the edge of the burbs with their hip hop and those actually on the margin don't like oppression.

>> No.6742534

>>6742513
>argentina
>white
>decent hip hop

>> No.6742550

>>6742338
All he really does is point out some differences between straight and gay people, but none of that seems to be a particuarly good reason to deny marriage to people who genuinely want it. Also, the whole argument of, let them have civil unions instead, what is really going on there, is it about the name? Does the name really change that much, that the "negative impact" (he doesn't really point out what exactly that impact would be) of gay marriage could be entirely averted just by calling it something else? Sometimes I don't get religious people at all, as much as I appreciate this particular specimen.

>> No.6742554

>>6742204
It's more about representatives of corporate entities shielding said entities from liability based on access to vulnerable persons, risk of infection and propagation of microorganisms; balanced against patient interest, compassion and public welfare; and because we're ultimately at the mercy of the emergent rules of the systems we keep in place consciously and unconsciously...

But yeah, we can distill that down if that helps your mental digestion.

Meme my shit up

>> No.6742556

>>6742513
just read diarrhea

>> No.6742559

>>6742554
Kek
People who don't grasp the significance of bureaucracy need to read more Hegel, Kafka, and Hobbes

>> No.6742579

>>6742484
Of course it can. The specifics of marriage are decided within the boundaries of state law. As long as civil marriage is a thing that brings social benefits to those who contract it it's going to have an impact on the overall notion of marriage.

>> No.6742582

>>6742579
>civil marriage
You mean a civil union?

>> No.6742597

>>6742448
How's the LGBT movement failing though, and who exactly is going to kill themselves over it?

>> No.6742609

>>6742291

>a burger has never made me cry before

I remember making this absolutely insane burger with Kimchi, caramelized onions, cheddar and the best beef one can get. Was honestly fighting back tears. A few weeks later my best friend told me that it was the best burger he'd ever eaten in his entire life. I was really moved.

Not even from burgerland by the way. There is no shame in food making you cry (if it's good of course).