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/lit/ - Literature

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6712559 No.6712559 [Reply] [Original]

I sense that a large majority of /lit/ does not appreciate YA literature, even going as far as to bash it viciously. However, this is contrary to the general reading population, the majority which don't have such hatred for YA literature, and even find value in its pages. Why is this?

My conclusions are that either
>b) /lit/ is stock full with the worlds most genius readers, all of who know better than everyone else, and can tell the quality of a work just by reading the wikipedia article and author bio summery
Or
>d) /lit/ is full of angsty college illiterates, bandwagon readers, and failed abysmal writers, all of who are absolutely beet-faced jealous of smart authors taking full advantage of the YA crowd

Thoughts, comments, etc?

>> No.6712569

>>6712559

Most of 4chan in general hates everything that is popular for no reason other than because it's popular. There are some smart people here and some stupid as well. Sort of like everywhere else.

I don't like the vlodbrothers' work on youtube since it's borderline SJW. I read a little of Fault in Our Stars and actually liked it, but didn't get a chance to finish it.

>> No.6712575

ya makes me sad because i want people to read the best books there are

>> No.6712596

>>6712575

As with any medium, "best" and "most popular" usually do not coincide.

>> No.6712617

I fucking hate the john green meme. I feel physically tired when I see these threads. I really wish mods would auto ban you and your kind

>> No.6712622

>>6712569
You're such a fucking pleb oh my god

>> No.6712624

is this another /johngreen/ general? sweet! love shitposting generals!

>> No.6712625

>>6712596
True, but for the sake of devil's advocate, I'd argue that popular works do have merit. you can learn a lot about the culture you want to know more of by seeing what is popular, and there may even be popular works that have earned it (Asimov as an example).

>> No.6712637
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6712637

>>6712622

Somehow I knew I would get called a pleb. Pic related is my reaction.

>>6712625

I'm not arguing against popular works having merit, I'm just saying that the best works not being popular and vice versa is generally to be expected. There are exceptions, of course.

>> No.6712646

>>6712559
I read a whole lot of YA literature of various sorts when I was between ten and eighteen. If anything, all that reading experience made me appreciate good literature more.
But YA lit is just as full of crap as anything you'll be able to pick up in the regular book-section. If you, as an adult, revisit literature you thought was good when you were young, you'll probably be disappointed, or disgusted, by most of it.

>> No.6712651

young adult is meant for kids in middle school, this is a literature board on an 18+ website

>> No.6712654

>>6712617
>>6712622
>>6712624
These posts are terrible, nothing but hatred and logical fallacies. You've explain exactly nothing, only presented your biased opinions. And you wonder why r/books makes fun of this place?

>> No.6712664

>>6712654
>And you wonder why r/books makes fun of this place?
if you can't stand the heat don't come here, 4chan does not exist as a back up for reddit

>> No.6712667

>>6712664

>no logical argument presented
>heat

Pick one.

>> No.6712670

>>6712667
>understanding the banter
>you

el selecto uno

>> No.6712676

>>6712651
>this is a literature board
Check again. /mu/ has better literature threads than this place.

>> No.6712677
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6712677

>>6712651
You'd be surprised how many adults only read 'young adult' books. Just look at Twilight. Hell, one of my English classes in college made me write an 8 page paper on The Hunger Games (it was a gen ed, but still).

>>6712637
I feel really confused. I'm not used to talking to civil people on the internet. I've been away from /lit/ too long.

>> No.6712678

His forehead could be touched by a penis.

>> No.6712681

>>6712654
>pretending you aren't OP

Killer. Just killer

I'm getting really sick of this shit

>> No.6712686

>>6712677

Sad thing is, to stand out on 4chan, you have to actively NOT be edgy in order to be edgy.

I COULD call you a faggot if that makes you feel more comfortable.

>> No.6712687

19 posts, 10 posters

It's just OP posting shit about /mu/ and reddit and using buzzwords to incite an argument. There's also some guy that almost finished TFiOS. Nothing is happening here. Care about nothing you read here.

Move on

>> No.6712688

>>6712686
Drugs are bad and actively engaging in social interaction is good.
Did I do it right?

>> No.6712692

>>6712681
>pretending you aren't OP
Since when do you have to announce "I'm OP, OP here! It's me, OP"? You absolutely lack any semblance of reading comprehension. Do you only understand works that explain their story and themes in point-form detail? Christ, you've made my blood boil worst than water in vacuum.

>> No.6712693

It's funny that John Green is the poster boy for bashing on YA because he's actually one of the better current YA writers. There are so much worse writers we could be using.

>> No.6712695

>>6712693

Like...?

>> No.6712697
File: 71 KB, 640x969, 640px-George_R_R_Martin_2011_Shankbone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6712697

>>6712693
fat man straining to shit

>> No.6712698

>>6712692
See
>>6712687

>> No.6712699

>>6712693
It's because he's popular. He's on youtube, and got a profitable business. It's actually boggling to think that his writing is nothing but a side job, yet one that has achieved such success.

>> No.6712700
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6712700

>>6712677
>You'd be surprised how many adults only read 'young adult' books. Just look at Twilight. Hell, one of my English classes in college made me write an 8 page paper on The Hunger Games (it was a gen ed, but still).
yeah but just because adults read it doesn't give it merit, in the same way that just because a teen reads a book doesn't make it a teenage book

young adult is a meme genre, it's used by publishers and marketing to get people to buy books because when people here young adult they think catcher in the rye, raging hormones, love story, life is so hard, wisdom of children, innocence of the young, etc. moreover, it's really super fucking easy to translate young adult into film, which is why there has been an increase in young adult-esque style books flooding the markets over the past few years.

>> No.6712707

>>6712693
>There are so much worse writers we could be using.
Found one
>>6712699
>He's on youtube, and got a profitable business.
Found another

What do you know? Plebs like YA. Who would've thought

>> No.6712712

>>6712707
>no commas
Found another one right about here.

>> No.6712718

>>6712676
/mu/ is no thing more than a containment board that rivals the retardation of /tv/ itself; any comparison of /lit/ to /mu/ in an intellectual respect is beyond preposterous.

>> No.6712723

>>6712686
I appreciate the concern, but I think i can withstand a few minutes of polite discourse. Let's pray.

>>6712697
Since when was GRRM a YA author?

>>6712687
Thank coould be speaking to the nature of /lit/ however, where you have more conversations rather than millions of different people shitposting.

>>6712700
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by a 'meme genre'. I don't see YA as a genre as much as a demographic which until recently wasn't as saturated as other markets (such as 'adult' literature). YA is easier to approach due to the relatively less complexity than 'adult' novels and goes into every marketer's favorite demographic, so it has exploded recently.

>> No.6712724

>>6712712
>>6712712
>implying a comma goes anywhere
And a third! They're everywhere tonight! It's summer!

>> No.6712727
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6712727

>>6712559
0/10
Didn't even try

>> No.6712733
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6712733

>>6712718
I love how the large majority of 4chan's boards were made to contain a cancerous fanbase. For example, /mlp/, /soc/, /r9k/, /jp/,/vp/, etc.

>> No.6712736

It's just OP posting shit about /mu/ and reddit and using buzzwords to incite an argument. There's also some guy that almost finished TFiOS. Nothing is happening here. Care about nothing you read here.

Move on

>> No.6712738

>>6712667
>>6712654
Ill give you a logical argument in the form of a story, since r/books loves stories
>a man is walking down the street and spot a big day-old dog turd in the middle of the street
>the man exclaims, "aw, god that stinks"
>another man walks up and asks whats wrong
>the first man informs him about the turd in the road and how bad it smells
> must be a day old he says
>"but how do you know it smells?"
>"what?"
>"i mean, youve come up with no logical argument for why it smells."
>"i dont know man i came upon it, smelled it, and it smells bad."
>the other man proceeds to get down and take a big whiff of the steaming shit and says that it doesnt smell bad.
>the other man is in shock, why is this fucking weirdo living on your street? Why the fuck is he even talking to you? The man is genuinely scared now
>"so buddy got a logical argument yet, huh?
>the other man comes up with the quick excuse that he left his sink on at home and bolts out of there as fast as he can.
>the other man, now a little confused, scoops up the shit and tucks it into his pocket, for later examination.

>> No.6712740

>>6712723
doesn't that prove the point though?

young adult is easy, it's almost the same basic story every time, what is there to discuss? if you start a thread praising young adult books, you're either really young or stupid. in either case, get the fuck out. if you want someone to hold your hand on the journey through your local library find some other forum to shitpost on.

this is like going on /sci/ and complaining there aren't enough threads covering basic arithmetic

>> No.6712745

>>6712740
>this is like going on /sci/ and complaining there aren't enough threads covering basic arithmetic
Pretty much this. Just get the fuck out of here and take all these john green memesters with you

>> No.6712749

>>6712733

I thought this was a containment website.

>>6712738

We're not discussing dog turds. It's more like this:

>"God I hate pizza."
>"I know it's bad for you, but I like pizza."
>"You're such a fucking pleb!"

>> No.6712755

>>6712738
Are you unable to explain in detail what it is stuff smell like, how they smell compared to other stuff, and why certain volatile compounds smell unsavory? Are you also unable to explain the science behind these smells? Because you've presented an inherent reaction to a stimuli as a logical argument. This is akin to bias or saying "I like it because it's fun, and it's fun because I like it", and explains nothing, adds nothing.

>> No.6712763

>>6712749
no, because pizza has levels of deliciousness and artistry
shit is shit
gtfo

>> No.6712768

>>6712749
In the scenario you've provided, you know that pizza is bad for you.

Analogously, this is equivalent to someone saying "I know that YA is detrimental to my intellect, but I like it!"

Therefore, said person is reading YA with the knowledge that their intellect is being damaged and they like it.

That person is, in all respects, a fucking pleb.

>> No.6712772
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6712772

>>6712740
I have a feeling you are generalizing the overall quality of YA books simply because they fit within a demographic. There are books within the YA demographic that have merit and deserve being talked about, even though it may be surrounded by other books within that demographic which are shit. If I may use a non-/lit/ example, its like how people new to manga say 'all shonen and shoujo manga are shit, I only read seinen'. Just because shonen (young boy) or shoujo (young girl) manga is aimed at a particular demographic doesn't make it bad, and just because a manga is aimed at the seinen (adult male) demographic doesn't make it good.

I won't argue that something like Divergent or Twilight has literary content worth talking about, but calling all YA content as low as Twilight is an overreach.

>> No.6712776

>>6712763

Hunger Games... or whatever it is you are talking about is only shit at this point because you say it's shit. Your argument is no better than the hypothetical person saying that shit is not shit because someone else says that the shit is not shit.

>>6712768

WHY LOOK AT THAT, A COHERENT FUCKING ARGUMENT, WAS IT THAT FUCKING HARD

>> No.6712788
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6712788

>>6712749
Is it a containment board for people who like Plato to much?

>> No.6712791

>>6712772
>but calling all YA content as low as Twilight is an overreach.
fair, but my point still stands. nobody on this board is here to do basic arithmetic, talk about some neat equations or get out.

>> No.6712792

But pizza is not bad for you. And "bad" itself, in terms of nutritional health, is nothing but a pop-health buzzword spouted by people who believe HFC is nutritionally different than glucose and fructose from, say, fruit.

>> No.6712798

>>6712792
Oops, excuse me, only my second week on the 4chanz ;^)
>>6712768

>> No.6712806

>>6712763
nah i know it's shit because my wife read it and i read over her shoulder once and i knew it was shit
don't defend your shit by saying "you've never read gtfo", post an example of whoever the fuck wrote it's transcendent prose

>> No.6712812

>>6712788
>to
Nice
>>6712792
>nonsense
Nice
>>6712693
>There are so much worse writers we could be using.
Nice
>>6712569
>I read a little of Fault in Our Stars
Nice
>>6712772
>people new to manga say 'all shonen and shoujo manga are shit, I only read seinen'. Just because shonen (young boy) or shoujo (young girl) manga is aimed at a particular demographic doesn't make it bad, and just because a manga is aimed at the seinen (adult male) demographic doesn't make it good.
>people new to manga
>manga
Nice

ITT: The above

>> No.6712831
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6712831

>>6712791
Hell, if my Analysis classes taught me anything last year, nobody can do fucking basic arithmetic after their calculus,/diff. eqn series is finished. You'd be surprised how many people forget what a^0 is or how to find the derivative of a polynomial (not really basic). My point is, it can be worth revisiting earlier, easier lessons in order to get more value from the more difficult lessons. You can even enjoy it, seeing how much more depth you can see in basic steps you couldn't see before.

If you ever get the chance, take an Analysis class that focuses on proof up to integration.You never realize how much shit you just assume.

But I digress, I would argue that YA functions the same way. Those easier exercises in analysis can be fun.

>> No.6712833

>>6712559
why does John Green looks like a psycho white supremacist?
If he wasn't pro-cultural relativism one could think he wants to kill all niggers.

>> No.6712834

>>6712831

>tfw I got an A in diff eq from the hardest professor at my (admittedly shit-tier) uni
>tfw can barely do calculus anymore

>> No.6712840

>>6712833

Because you've been brainwashed by SJWs into thinking that nerdy white men are all serial killers?

>> No.6712842
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6712842

>>6712812
>Being a grammar nazi on a literature board.

That's the 4chan I expect. Where have you been?

>> No.6712844

>>6712831
>But I digress, I would argue that YA functions the same way

Okay. Argue it

>> No.6712848

>>6712840
>sjw
lel
most nerdy white men are sjws you fucking retard
And no, it's not because he looks nerdy. He has empty eyes.

>> No.6712857

>>6712848
>He has empty eyes.
Smug? That is the price ones pays for spending hours upon hours writing and proofreading YA literature. At least it pays, unlike some peoples' degrees.

>> No.6712860
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6712860

>>6712834
I understand your pain. I have never felt more idiotic than I did last semester taking a metric fuckton of math courses. I had taken multivariable calc two semesters before and couldn't pull a single memory out for Analysis. How do those profs keep that shit in their heads?

>> No.6712864

>>6712857
I could say he looks nihilist, like he wants everyone to read his shitty books just because he wants money. Even when he is talking about islam in his Crash History courses, he looks like a fucking smug cunt.

>> No.6712880
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6712880

>>6712844
I'm not sure what I'm missing. My digression was my argument by analogy that studying/talking about good YA novels has merit.

It seems your responses keep getting shorter. I don't really have any stakes in this, so please don't get too irritated.

>> No.6712902

>>6712880
That was my only response. I'm not whoever you responded to. I can see you've never constructed an argument and I'll try not to get irritated.

You gave a crash course on intro mathematics. Your evidence for saying that it is necessary to revisit older mathematics in order to move forward is one based on anecdote and preference. This is a weak argument for "it is necessary to revisit basic arithmetic (as the phrase you responded to was originally posed) in order to understand higher level math.

Thus far you provided a shaky argument for your mathematic philosophy. This has absolutely nothing to do with YA and it's relation to literature. Nothing. Drawing an arbitrary parallel to literature and crossing your arms and saying "so you see anon, as I've proved, you must revisit the first lessons to get the later ones" means absolutely nothing. Not a single literary term was used. No mention of prose, pacing, or anything of merit within a YA novel that could potentially allow for greater understanding of literature. You talked about math and you said "math is basically literature."

That's why I told you to argue it. You argued nothing. You can appeal to "but the point is that you must revisit the first lessons!" but this also means nothing because you never defined these lessons. Nothing was argued. Nothing was proved.

>> No.6712977
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6712977

>>6712902
I do apologize, I had previously been in a debate with someone else ( don't use extensions for 4chan, so I'm not sure who) who had generalized 'all YA novels are bad'. I thought you had been the one continuing that discussion.

That said, my primary goal was to attack the generalization that 'all' YA novels are not worth a damn. I was using that as an example to talk about the abstract class of YA books, rather than the particular books themselves. I'm not saying math is basically literature, but many of the tools of analysis used in math can also be used to argue about literature.

That said, I probably shouldn't fight too much about the structure of my argument at 1:40, as I'm sure my responses will just get slurry.

>> No.6713079

Would you rather have your kids read shitty young people narratives or let them read Reddit and 4chan all day?

>> No.6713111

>>6712831
yes but there are many "easier" works that are better written and less pandering than Green's schlock. see: a heap of 1980s-90s American writers like Carver, Crumley, McGuane, McIrney... McCarthy, to some extent

>> No.6713134

>>6712559
I dislike him because my college level history professors play him during class, a class that I'm paying for with my tuition. He spreads his piss poor version of history, inserting himself and his vapid opinions at every turn, and portrays the world, and history in a way thats incorrect and misleading to suit his own goals.

He's uneducated, graduated with a shitty GPA majoring in bible studies or some shit from a shitty university, and his lol XD so random style of speaking might as well be nails screeching on a board to me.

>> No.6713145

>>6713134
report that professor to your dean and make a big stink about it. I want to see this on regional news at least

>> No.6713149

>>6713134
>my college level history professors play him during class

Why do college professors play youtube clips like everyone can't just go do that shit at home?

This disturbs me to no end, doesn't even matter if it's John Green or something worth a shit. I can surf the 'net without coming to class.

>> No.6713153

>>6712575
This. You miss so much of life by reading ayy fiction.