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/lit/ - Literature

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6697787 No.6697787 [Reply] [Original]

So /lit/, have you read the American novel to end all American novels?

But seriously, this book is like a dense nugget or themes and issues. My hope of writing a great book ended with this novel, because it is literally everything. Are there any other books as philosophically rich, just by volume of social and religious commentary, as this?

>> No.6697789

cover for ants, etc. etc.

>> No.6697797

>>6697787
If you think that's good, wait until you read JR by Gaddis.

>> No.6697807

>>6697797
I did, and it wasn't as good as The Recognitions. I think Gaddis really did a disservice to himself by making it all-dialogue, since his prose is masterful.

He's obviously good at dialogue, but I see no reason for JR to consist entirely of it. I think it works better for Carpenter's Gothic than JR, since that book revolves around isolation and hearsay.

>> No.6697815
File: 719 KB, 1648x2550, 91jYxGK9qWL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6697815

>>6697789
Sorry. Here's the cover of the current edition.

>> No.6697830

Though it's not American, I found 2666 by Roberto Bolaño to be a pretty rich/dense novel philosophically. Bolaño doesn't really philosophize so much as he presents a bunch of fever dream scenes and asks the reader to make sense of them.

>> No.6697951

One of the greatest books I've ever read too. The first 100-something pages is some of the best writing I've ever had the pleasure of reading.

I can't quite compare anything to it. But I'm sure you'd like the magic mountain by Mann, if you enjoyed the religious parts especially.

>> No.6697963

Is The Recognitions as annoyingly written as JR?

I had to stop reading it and returned it for a full refund because I'm not wasting my time and energy trying to figure out who said what. Seemed like a pointless gimmick but I was really hoping to enjoy the book because the premise is genius.

>> No.6697980

Going to begin it... now I guess. Hopefully I can drink this beer or two without my attention going to shit. J R is one of my favorite books currently so I'm hoping this will be as good/better despite the two decade difference. Also I like that cover OP it's funny I have the shitty bullfighter one.
>>6697963
J R was incredibly easy to understand for what it is save for like a few sentences when Davidoff calls someone and the scene changes to that guy calling his kid "David" and whatnot.

>> No.6698003

>>6697963
A lot of the dialogue is attributed to who's speaking, unlike JR - but there are noticeable points where it's left ambiguous. Like JR a lot of the characters have mannerisms when they speak that make it easier to follow along, and he's much more generous when 3+ people are speaking than he is in JR. Most of the time the ambiguity of who's speaking is a reference to the issue at hand, which is the absence of identity, so it serves a purpose.

>> No.6698065

>>6697787
>American novels

ew no thank you

>> No.6698250

>>6697830
It's American, just not US of American.

And saying that makes me the worst kind of cunt.

>> No.6698259

>>6697787
Yes, OP, as a matter of fact I have read Gravity's Rainbow

>> No.6698438

>>6697787

rereading it now to inspire my own writing. Honestly I'd say that as "the great american novel" it tops over even Moby Dick in my book. Christ it's good. I'm even finding ideas for my writing projects completely overflowing with Gaddis sentiment more than any other author right now

>> No.6698445

>>6698250
nah, not really. i would just assume you were latin american, they generally take the american identity in that broader sense

>> No.6698520

Moby Dick is the greatest American novel, nothing can change that.

>> No.6698621

>>6698520
see
>>6698438

It's seriously fantastic.

>> No.6698692

>>6698621
I've read The Recognitions, I still believe Moby Dick holds the position of the greatest American novel.

>> No.6698827

>>6698438
Can confirm only about 30 pages in. Holy Hell he is just so casually witty and poetic. Although, the last novel that struck me this heavily this early was Moby Dick so I guess I'll have to wait and see.

>> No.6699993

>>6698692
Ultimately very different books, and can't really be compared. I just re-read Moby-Dick, and it's so damn good. But so is The Recognitions.

>> No.6700253

>>6697951
>The first 100-something pages is some of the best writing I've ever had the pleasure of reading

Does it drop off for the remaining 800?

>> No.6700549

>>6700253

no, it gets a bit repetitive though (but it's still fantastic)

The first 100 pages though should be required reading. After chapters 1 and 2 you're hooked to the end anyways, because his pyrotechnics ease up a bit after that

>> No.6700557

>reading american novels

>> No.6701697

>>6697787
a third of the way in
not bad at all
gonna read J R after

>> No.6702168

>>6697787
It's amazing, honestly the only word I can use to describe it. Everything about it technically, thematically, artistically is brilliant. There is a reason why someone so talented in his own right like Thomas Pynchon would start off writing mirroring Gaddis so closely because Gaddis is a writer worth imitating. I think that might be the highest praise you can give a writer.

>> No.6702430

>>6697787
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcXH74Nvq6s

i love william gladys OP

>> No.6702518

>>6702168
Anything I've seen has been indicative Pynchon did not read Gaddis? Anyone got a link to clear this matter up?

>> No.6702657

>>6702518
Hey, Pynchon's son, answer this for us.

>> No.6702678

>>6702430
this is a p good review tbh if you can get past the mispronunciation

>> No.6702825

>>6702518
Pynchon's early work was mistaken by critics as Gaddis writing under a pseudonym. It's a real thing, you can look at up. William Gass even talks about it in his introduction that he wrote for The Recognitions.

>> No.6702900

>>6702518

cmon dude, read Recognitions and the V. before clicking the burgers on your next post

>> No.6702918

Obligatory thread music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk5xIZrmbZU

Probably my favorite thing about the book is how tight it is with its theme, even as it strays into different parts of life. Did Gaddis find the perfect problem to write about or was he simply good enough to make every issue he tackled come alive in his work?

>> No.6702926

>>6697787
Is The Recognitions difficult? I know Jonathan Franzen thinks so but he looks like a pleb and his essay on Gaddis is dumb.

I know it's long, but is it something I'll have to research the entire Western Canon to understand like Ulysses, or is it all around disjointed and confusing like GR?

>> No.6702941

>>6702926

Well franzen is a good writer (at least, with prose), and he's not wrong, it's not an easy book. However, I suggest reading the first 50 pages, going back to other books, and reading it again all the way through. Let gaddis' style sink in for a while.

But no, it's not THAT hard. Just hard to enjoy fully without some marination

>> No.6702955

>>6702926
It's fairly difficult, but only if you try to get everything. I would suggest diving into it and reading it, and not necessarily looking up everything you don't get. Pay attention to the things that do stand out you rather than following every bread crumb. Part of the joy (and the point) of the book is not getting every little reference.

Gaddis was extremely, extremely well read. Most of the literary references he makes are to medieval manuscripts and hermetic manuals, a hundred little known texts. That kind of stuff can slide by unless you're really curious about it. The painting references, however, should be looked up as you come upon them. Just google the painting and look at it and then go back to the book. Same with the music. Those references simply won't mean anything unless you connect them to the actual works of art, and are way easier to research than the books.

Other than that there's a lot of Christian history that might seem daunting, but if you've read Ulysses it shouldn't be too hard. There's the accident/substance debate and the Nicene Creed... A lot of that happens in the background.

All in all, these annotations are helpful:

http://williamgaddis dot org/recognitions/preface.shtml

but I encourage you to read it through without them and see how much you yourself can get out of it first.