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6694260 No.6694260 [Reply] [Original]

Can we discuss Stoicism?

I finished Meditations the other day, and enjoyed it. But I've been thinking about Stoicism in depth, and it's become clear to me that it only makes sense on a surface level.

It sounds very nice, especially if you struggle with being selfish or impatient, and consider these things to be undesirable. It seems like the perfect antidote, as a life-guiding set of principles, for dealing with certain 'destructive' emotional habits. With its aim of harmonizing the individual to live in accordance with logos, it seems like it's ideal for achieving balance in life.

The problem, as I see it, is that it elevates principled virtues above emotion too much. It cuts off an entire realm of human experience with its denial of sensual experience, and its reduction/elimination of (passionate) feeling. Isn't that a huge part of what makes us human beings? Their conception of 'Nature' arbitrarily removes our feelings, our desires, our impulses, under the pretext of 'misperceptions.' They set up a false dichotomy of rational vs. irrational, and randomly proclaim the latter inferior and subordinate, even though it's an irremovable part of who (or what) we are.

Why can't our feelings and desires be considered a part of nature, if everything that exists necessarily aligns with the logos? Wouldn't it be better to accept that part of ourselves, as they suggest that everything else should be accepted? Won't denying it create more pain and suffering than one would experience otherwise?

>> No.6694274

>>6694260
>Can we discuss Stoicism?

You missed this meme by a half a year. Everyone who has touched apatheia has moved on.

>It cuts off an entire realm of human experience with its denial of sensual experience, and its reduction/elimination of (passionate) feeling.

Read Epictetus. The long version.

>> No.6694287

>>6694274
>apatheia

"It is best translated by the word equanimity rather than indifference. The word apatheia has a quite different meaning to the modern English apathy, which has a negative connotation."

"For the Stoics, it was the optimum rational response to the world, for we cannot control things that are caused by the will of others or by Nature; we can only control our own will. This

did not mean

a loss of feeling,

or total disengagement from the world. The Stoic who performs correct (virtuous) judgments and actions as part of the world-order experiences contentment (eudaimonia) and good feelings (eupatheia)."

>> No.6694290

Stoics only cared about virtue. Meaning, if your desires and sense impressions or whatever contribute to a virtuous life, then you're good.

>> No.6694291

Epicureanism is so superior as a moral philosophy that it's a joke.

Stoicism is for reddit-tier quote jpegs.

>> No.6694293

Stoicism is stupid. Read the Nicomachean Ethics.

Aurelius did have great hair though.

>> No.6694296

>>6694291
>Epicureanism is so superior as a moral philosophy that it's a joke.

You can be an Epicurean and not live out in the countryside with your hippy luddite friends?

Yeah, there are no real Epicureans. It's just a comforting bandaid for those stuck in late capitalism.

>> No.6694306

>>6694293
thanks fam

>> No.6694341
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6694341

>>6694291

>> No.6694788

>>6694260
I think your problem might be that you're interpreting our contemporary ways of being subjects (desires, impulses, emotions, personalities) into that age.
Read the correspondence between Marcus Aurelius and Fronto. Read letters by Stoics in general, like Seneca's.
Foucault's "The Hermeneutics of the Subject" lectures will also make things clearer.

>> No.6694836

>>6694291
Epicureanism is for hippies and degenerates. If everyone listened to Epicurus the human race would go extinct within a generation because LOL raising children is hard XD.