Let's have one of those threads.

File: 238 KB, 800x315, öfüron.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 13:32:26 2015 No.6692632 [Reply] [Original]

Let's have one of those threads.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 13:52:37 2015 No.6692693 File: 1001 KB, 1713x700, 1432824991063.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 13:59:22 2015 No.6692708 >>6692693 oh god Im seeing phallus's again

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 14:02:18 2015 No.6692718 File: 1.19 MB, 1737x701, Erotic.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 14:08:38 2015 No.6692737 >inb4 corn

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 14:11:19 2015 No.6692750 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0B7Z3JERdk

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 14:12:54 2015 No.6692754 >>6692750 ...but these guys are pretty good

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 14:15:42 2015 No.6692761 >>6692632 inb4 >what i read: >>moby dick >what i expected: >>epic whale battle >what i got: >>charts, diagrams, anatomy, lectures

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 14:16:19 2015 No.6692764 >>6692761 Ha ha so true, someone should make this one.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 14:19:12 2015 No.6692775 >>6692754 >some of the other bands already played the songs we're gonna play >we're gonna play them anyway blue shirt guy taking the piss

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 14:28:39 2015 No.6692825 File: 285 KB, 1008x415, The loser Thomas Bernhard.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The only one I've made.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 14:35:17 2015 No.6692864 >>6692750 Hey this isn't cringe at all

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:03:34 2015 No.6692984 [SPOILER]

File: 326 KB, 1638x660, 1434395014017.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6692632
Just finished it. Expected it to be 2edgy4me, based on what I've read about Conrad, but I really liked it.

Pretty racist against the Africans though, although that might just be part of Marlow's character

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:05:23 2015 No.6692994 >>6692761 >Melville's literary OCD ftfy

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:12:55 2015 No.6693029 File: 271 KB, 1710x646, The Gaucho.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:14:48 2015 No.6693035 File: 1.33 MB, 1686x712, wnp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] better than expected

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:17:00 2015 No.6693049 File: 959 KB, 1724x728, 1434391338813.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] To explain: I usually just pick up a book without reading about it, so I expected great things out of this

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:18:56 2015 No.6693055 >>6693049 thus spoke zarathustra is a terribly written book even borges thought it was cringe worthy and overwritten

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:23:35 2015 No.6693079 >>6693035 If you haven't read Anna Karenina, I strongly advise it. But it's probably in your list anyway

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:23:41 2015 No.6693080 File: 934 KB, 1686x764, gd.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] in before shitstorm

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:25:24 2015 No.6693090 >>6693055 I don't like Nietzsche's grandiloquent prose but I don't think someone who used to write everything like it was an encyclopedia entry is a great authority figure

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:30:20 2015 No.6693102
File: 45 KB, 626x307, dawkins the philosopher.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6693080
I actually read The God Delusion when I was 13 or 14. At the time, it probably had a good effect on me and made me question other sacred cows, but now I laugh at how ignorant of philosophy it is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:33:50 2015 No.6693111 >>6692632 post the template pleazzze

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:34:49 2015 No.6693113 File: 1.55 MB, 1092x748, vapare nige.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6693080 Why the fuck have you misused an image of our national hero Nigel Paul Farage? Our leader is a Christian man.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:42:57 2015 No.6693142 File: 1016 KB, 1707x775, sick.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Not what I expected

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:46:11 2015 No.6693150 >>6693113 /r/ing pic of him and Enoch in the same style. I just want to look at it again...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:51:57 2015 No.6693172 File: 3.32 MB, 1544x1080, enoch was right.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6693150

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:52:40 2015 No.6693174 >>6693113 I assume it's because Dawkins, like Farage, is comically British

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:56:40 2015 No.6693192 >>6693102 Same about me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 15:58:31 2015 No.6693196 >>6693174 I assume it's because Hitchens, like Farage, had a reasonable distaste for Islam.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:00:59 2015 No.6693204 >>6692825 Bernhard is great, did you read him in english?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:06:50 2015 No.6693223 File: 142 KB, 1008x475, 1349892456371.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:30:37 2015 No.6693295 File: 360 KB, 1278x469, 1423959426474.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Incredibly fun book

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:37:54 2015 No.6693324 File: 808 KB, 1291x537, solaris.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:38:07 2015 No.6693325 File: 840 KB, 1291x533, 1415033727654.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:42:59 2015 No.6693343 File: 246 KB, 1480x690, 1417812269499.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6693325 pls

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:43:58 2015 No.6693347 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:44:41 2015 No.6693351 File: 318 KB, 802x301, Narcissus and Goldmund.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6692632 First one I've ever done.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:48:19 2015 No.6693373 File: 955 KB, 1294x534, 1414079401492.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:50:34 2015 No.6693381 >>6693196 >immigrants are to blame for everything, including capitalist economic crisis >reasonable distaste for Islam

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:51:20 2015 No.6693385 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:52:59 2015 No.6693392 >>6693381 How is that an accurate description of Hitchen's position? Of course Farage is xenophobic, and that sucks, but he's right about Islam.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:54:45 2015 No.6693397 >>6693392 I was talking about Farage. As euphoric as they are, the New Atheists don't blame Islam for everything

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:56:57 2015 No.6693404 >>6693397 Neither does Farage. Look, I don't even like the guy, aI was merely pointing out that one particular similarity between those two people as apossible explaination for Farage being in that pic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 16:59:12 2015 No.6693411 File: 635 KB, 1009x396, dune.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6692632

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:01:54 2015 No.6693422
File: 514 KB, 520x678, worried laughter.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6693223
>one of my former professors is trying to get me into Hegel
>"you have to do it in stages. Only read Hegel himself at the last stage if you want to understand him."
>mfw

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:09:30 2015 No.6693445 >>6693422 You should read it concomitantly actually, some companions might differ in interpretations so it's better to have the text in hand to draw your conclusions.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:12:51 2015 No.6693453 >>6693325 Ebin

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:13:59 2015 No.6693454 >>6693343 pls no, corn father.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:23:23 2015 No.6693481 >>6693445 Have you read Reason And Revolution? He recommended that as a primer

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:31:16 2015 No.6693502 >>6693481 >Reason And Revolution No, I'm using mostly Hyppolite's 'Genesis and Structure' for the PoS, and 'The Idea of Hegel's Science of Logic' for the same.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:34:08 2015 No.6693510 File: 1.26 MB, 2064x792, Thecrying.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] If you haven't yourself a pinecone, I recommend it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:42:15 2015 No.6693529 File: 252 KB, 1620x666, leviathan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:45:36 2015 No.6693537 >>6693529 What you expected is what you got...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:50:38 2015 No.6693557 >>6693325 Corn wasn't introduced in Europe until the Columbian Exchange in the 15th century, though, was it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:52:36 2015 No.6693567 >>6692984 >Pretty racist against the Africans though you didn't get it.it's all criticism of white man's imperialistic ambitions from back then

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:54:11 2015 No.6693577 >>6693557 Holy shit, that's right! We have been lied to all our life, by none other than the great cesar himself. seriously, if it is mentioned in a text from 50 BC, it should be clear: it was europeans who brought corn to the new world.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:54:25 2015 No.6693578 File: 1.07 MB, 266x268, nswgo.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6693567 It isn't a criticism of imperialism, it's a criticism of the depravity of human nature.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:54:28 2015 No.6693579 >>6693529 Hobbes is a rule-of-law liberal, not a totalitarian. Please at least have the decency to at least shitpost about books you've actually read.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:57:06 2015 No.6693590 >>6693579 >Hobbes is a liberal >totalitarianism can't be legal

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:58:01 2015 No.6693592 File: 254 KB, 1619x682, 1434404535550.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Just finished it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 17:59:10 2015 No.6693599 >>6693578 Different anon here, this criticism is, however, one that essentially refutes racism: the horror is the realization that savagery isn't a negro thing, it is a human thing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:00:56 2015 No.6693607 >>6693557 >corn in pretty much any european language = grains Most of us use an equivalent of the word "maize" when talking about what americans call "corn".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:01:43 2015 No.6693612 >>6693102 >I'm honestly ignorant. First time he's told the truth on the subject in a long time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:03:33 2015 No.6693622 >>6693599 But what about the fact that there are no "normal" Africans?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:03:46 2015 No.6693623 File: 182 KB, 1291x564, 1430863008774.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:05:32 2015 No.6693630 >>6693623 >a /pol/lack actually reading the Frankfurt School Yeah, I doubt it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:06:39 2015 No.6693638 >>6693622 Now think about what you just meant when you said 'normal'. That's right, you're being racist.

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:10:16 2015 No.6693650
File: 45 KB, 850x400, quote-intolerance-of-ambiguity-is-the-mark-of-an-authoritarian-personality-theodor-adorno-323117.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6693623
>when /po/lacks actually read Adorno
Not bad, made it to the second chapter. I mean, you didn't realize that they don't actually vilify Odysseus, but it's as much as you can ask for, really.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:11:08 2015 No.6693655 File: 128 KB, 1618x655, 11352466_784947581626282_38771772_o.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:13:54 2015 No.6693665 >>6693650 >Not bad, made it to the second chapter Why didn't you continue on reading?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:15:48 2015 No.6693671 >>6693665 Not me, the /pol/lack.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:17:18 2015 No.6693677 File: 163 KB, 1006x402, eco.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:31:04 2015 No.6693703

>>6693630
>>6693650
Modern SJWs (if you can even still call them cultural marxists) are a living insult to the Frankfurt School.

They are certainly descendents of people like Adorno's line of thinking, but they are the kid who squanders his family's fortune.

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:33:18 2015 No.6693711

>>6693703
>Modern SJWs (if you can even still call them cultural marxists) are a living insult to the Frankfurt School.
True.
>They are certainly descendents of people like Adorno's line of thinking
Not really, they actually owe more to Adorno's archnemesis, Heidegger, and of course his french fanboys.

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:37:12 2015 No.6693718

>>6693703
If you want to claim that everything is a construct that can be remade, you should know in advance that massive retardation will ensue.

>hey, you know those things that have been working for us since the advent of vertebrates? Let's pretend it's all lies!
Genius!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:39:25 2015 No.6693726 >>6693718 >If you want to claim that everything is a construct that can be remade That was never a claim of the Frankfurt School. Get back to your containment board, we are prejudiced towards illiterates.

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:40:17 2015 No.6693729

>>6693718
Adorno and his band of merry men made a lot of interesting and arguably valid observations about contemporary society, how it became what it is, why we like the things we like and worship the worldy things we worship.

Somehow that quality of work degraded over time as if it were correlated to the IQ of the people who carried the torch each generation after he died.

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:47:49 2015 No.6693748

>>6693726
Do you not know what critical theory is?

>>6693729
>interesting and arguably valid observations about contemporary society
Like in "the authoritarian personality"?

Funny thing, Adorno was so eager to strike back at his German persecutors that he pretty much mirrored their racial classification with a personality classification.

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:51:33 2015 No.6693762

>>6693729
Anon who posted >>6693711 here, you are more or less correct, but the people who took the torch didn't turn into SJWs, following Habermas, they became the tamest left-liberals imaginable. It wasn't a gradual degradation, either, more like an immediate betrayal as soon as Adorno was dead.

Academic SJWs in the US called themselves critical theorist because that was the name under which french postmodernism gort popularized in the US. Not saying that there aren't people like Nancy Fraser who will combine those different current into something slightly smarter, if still full of pomo nonsense.

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:54:53 2015 No.6693775

>>6693748
>Do you not know what critical theory is?
I do, Horkheimer explains it quite well in his essay "Traditional and Critical Theory", which you should read sometime. It's available online, just google it and then tell me if it contains any talk about everything being just a social construct.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:56:40 2015 No.6693780 >>6693775 Critical theory involves critiquing and changing the underlying assumptions of society. It's not that hard to understand.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 18:58:24 2015 No.6693786 >>6693502 I'm using Fukuyama :^)

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:05:57 2015 No.6693810

>>6693780
That doesn't mean that everything is a construct. The original Frankfurt School were orthodox marxists in many regards, and one of those is, guess what, materialism, which in this case means that the 'social constructs' (they wouldn't have used that silly phrase)mask something that is concrete and real, the reproductive and exploitative relationship of (civilized) man and nature, including human nature. Furthermlre, they were also Freudians, meaning that they made even more assumptions about human nature than your average marxist. If you want to blame them for people like Butler (do people like you even know who that is?), you need to get your head examined.

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:15:32 2015 No.6693829

>>6693810
>That doesn't mean that everything is a construct.
Depends on whom you asked I guess.

Looking at how people are saying gender and race are constructs, I believe it's safe to say that everything about society is considered a social construct by now.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:21:41 2015 No.6693846 File: 416 KB, 810x304, 1407133551526.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:24:14 2015 No.6693853

>>6693829
>Looking at how people are saying gender and race are constructs, I believe it's safe to say that everything about society is considered a social construct by now.
The appropriate question would be, what do those people have to do with the Frankfurt School? And the answer is, fuck all. If anything, the completely schizophrenic attitude that differences between people are simultaneously valuable and non-existent should be critiqued as the late-capitalistic ideology it is. Adorno is, unfortunately dead, but at least in that regard, if none other, Zizek is a worthy heir. Just listen to him talk about tolerance and multiculturalism, that is proper critical theory.

Also, of course society consists of things you could call social constructs, just like individual humans consist of biological constructs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:26:47 2015 No.6693860 File: 1.23 MB, 912x905, super golden lel 3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6693102 ahaha that tweet is real

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:28:55 2015 No.6693863 >>6693655 >nothin personnell kid Accurate. God, Camus is such a little shit

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:29:19 2015 No.6693864 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:30:20 2015 No.6693870 File: 148 KB, 1737x1219, thingsfallapart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:31:19 2015 No.6693873 >>6693853 >what do those people have to do with the Frankfurt School? It's the result of critical theory.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:32:07 2015 No.6693875 File: 134 KB, 1688x708, thingsfallapart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:32:22 2015 No.6693878 >>6692750 /mu/ memes? In my /lit/? I like it.

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:35:55 2015 No.6693888

>>6693873
It really isn't. Foucault is much more important to those people, and so is, wrap your reactionary mind around this, Heidegger. I mean, you sure can keep claiming stuff like that, but it's time to back this up, which means you'll have to read more Adorno than you'd normally want to. Failing to do so, you can also just stop making clqims.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:42:46 2015 No.6693904 File: 170 KB, 1008x425, Out of the Dark sucked and David Weber is a masturbatory chicken-hawk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6692632 No one here was gonna read it anyway but this gets laughs from /tg/.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 19:48:20 2015 No.6693921 >>6693888 I was talking about the Frankfurt school, not just Adorno.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 20:15:52 2015 No.6693982 >>6693638 >you're the REAL racist "Normal" as in "not cannibals or mute savages".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 20:18:20 2015 No.6693989 >>6693780 >critiquing and changing the underlying assumptions of society >everything, absolutely EVERYTHING is a social construct I'm not seeing it >>6693786 >Fukuyama Absolutely disgusting

Anonymous Mon Jun 15 22:50:54 2015 No.6694474

>>6693921
Yeah well, won't be able to do this with Horkheimer or Marcuse, either.
>>6693982
That's a very arbitrary, western standards of nlrmalness. Also, seriously, those people live in the Heart of Darkness, it's not their race that makes them this way, it's the place & culture, as demonstrated by the fact thatwhites end up tje same after prolonged exposure.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 22:56:40 2015 No.6694501 >>6693102 >>6693612 >>6693860 he's 100% right.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 15 23:25:30 2015 No.6694629 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 01:15:06 2015 No.6695016 >>6693677 hehehe not bad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 01:25:40 2015 No.6695039 >>6693343 Please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 01:26:08 2015 No.6695044 File: 180 KB, 1008x581, what i read what i expected what i got the dharma bums.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I still liked it though.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 01:42:56 2015 No.6695105 >>6693343 I'm reading Infinite Jest, so I don't really see the point here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 01:44:13 2015 No.6695111 >>6693557 >this argument again please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 01:52:33 2015 No.6695137 >>6693875 Fucking kek.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 01:56:04 2015 No.6695149 File: 134 KB, 1006x1230, Stoner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I was not disappoint. Just overwhelmed.

>>	Muck Bulligan !!ryE2gEjGbpu Tue Jun 16 02:11:58 2015 No.6695210 File: 32 KB, 904x352, things will.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6692761 moby-dick is like 700 pages and you expected a whale battle to act as its primary substance? >>6693080 >that expectation yikes

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 02:21:10 2015 No.6695250 >>6695149 What did you expect?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 02:40:30 2015 No.6695334 >>6693343 'please no, corn father'

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 02:43:10 2015 No.6695347 File: 220 KB, 1236x487, 634578658758.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 02:51:50 2015 No.6695376 >>6693343 >please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 02:54:50 2015 No.6695386 >>6693373 this is hilarious

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 02:59:34 2015 No.6695395 >>6693351 fuggin Goldmund can't go 10 pages without hooking up with a girl

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 03:15:05 2015 No.6695433 'please no, corn father'

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 03:30:33 2015 No.6695476 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 04:13:02 2015 No.6695551 >>6693223 LOL HEGEL'S BAGELS

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 04:17:12 2015 No.6695560 >>6693989 >everything, absolutely EVERYTHING Are you an autist?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 04:20:10 2015 No.6695577 File: 438 KB, 1903x942, teartroshit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 04:24:57 2015 No.6695589 >>6693035 That picture of the Serfs/farmers is VERY accurate of a character/chapter in Anna Karanina

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 04:32:46 2015 No.6695609 File: 653 KB, 1688x652, 1408482057658.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6692632

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 04:34:46 2015 No.6695617 File: 1.03 MB, 1024x2304, 1423958164181.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 04:40:39 2015 No.6695630 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:16:07 2015 No.6695700 >>6693590 hobbes is liberal on his ideas about the individual as just that: base but automatic. those liberal ideas are what he builds his ideas about the necessity of an all powerful ruler to a functioning society.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:18:09 2015 No.6695706 >>6695560 This was exactly the claim leveled against the Frankfurt School, e.g. here: >>6693718

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:18:40 2015 No.6695709 >>6695706 Yup, confirmed autism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:20:07 2015 No.6695712 >>6695709 That post literally said that, what's the matter wih you? Is being able to read autism?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:21:11 2015 No.6695715 >>6693080 >>6693102 I prefer Dawkins's later work. Dear Muslima is a standout.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:23:08 2015 No.6695724 >>6693577 There's no arguing with facts. How did Caesar hear about this supposedly New World plant? Lol b/c there's nothing New World about it!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:25:13 2015 No.6695733 >>6695712 When someone says "I told him everything", do you assume this was an infinitely long conversation?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:27:06 2015 No.6695738 File: 24 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6695715 Post yfw Dawkins actually wrote this just a couple years ago

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:28:34 2015 No.6695742 >>6695738 See little wrong with it, unless you're so stupid you don't see him being sarcastic.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:29:42 2015 No.6695743

>>6695733
Oh alright, it was all a metaphor. Then let's see if it still makes once we remove the ambiguity
>If you want to critique and change the underlying assumptions of society, you should know in advance that massive retardation will ensue.
No one in their right mind would put it this way, because it makes you sound like the retard you are.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:30:50 2015 No.6695745 >>6695738 lmao this substantially indistinguishable from "shut up bitch be thankful we let you drive" Dawkins is a human turd

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:32:43 2015 No.6695749 >>6695742 Are you retarded? As a criticism of the elevator female, he's being 100% sincere.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:34:07 2015 No.6695752 >>6695745 Oh wow you are everything wrong with western feminism. And I say this as someone who can't stand Dawkns.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:34:31 2015 No.6695755

>>6695743
>it was all a metaphor
What?
It wasn't a metaphor, I was using the word "everything" correctly.

>it makes you sound like the retard you are
When you undermine the very basis of human society, you should know that much retardation will come of it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:37:06 2015 No.6695761 >>6695752 oh yeah well you are everything wrong with, uh, eastern feminism. take that motherfucker

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:41:34 2015 No.6695775
File: 63 KB, 850x400, quote-culture-is-only-true-when-implicitly-critical-and-the-mind-which-forgets-this-revenges-itself-in-theodor-adorno-323119.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6695755
>When you undermine the very basis of human society
Questioning and changing something amounts to undermining it? I will never understand how people with such a primitive view of culture and civilization can style themselves its defenders.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:46:03 2015 No.6695791

>>6695742

So according to you, he's being ironic in his criticism, and the piece is actually a letter of support to Skep*chick, in which he's sarcastically posing as one of her critics? Because that's completely wrong, you bible-thumping moron. Go rape some 2nd graders in your clergy robes and fuck off this adults only forum.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:46:57 2015 No.6695796 File: 360 KB, 1267x496, brothers K.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:53:05 2015 No.6695808 >>6695796 So BK is a rough CaP?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:53:46 2015 No.6695809 >>6695808 It's CaP in funny and less edgy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:53:53 2015 No.6695811 >>6695791 >I'm too retarded to understand whatt sarcasm is He is being ironic in his support of Skepchikc. How can you be so retarded?

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 05:58:07 2015 No.6695818

>>6695775
>Questioning and changing something amounts to undermining it?
It's "criticizing" more than "questioning", but yes, absolutely.

If you want to say "men are as much mothers as women" for instance (a typical result of the Frankfurt school of thought), you're undermining the gender role of motherhood as it has existed for an immense amount of animals since the dawn of vertebrates.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:05:05 2015 No.6695830

>>6695818
>It's "criticizing" more than "questioning", but yes, absolutely.
In other words, you have no idea how culture works.
>If you want to say "men are as much mothers as women" for instance (a typical result of the Frankfurt school of thought)
>a typical result of the Frankfurt school of thought
Good, now we're going places. I challenge you to find anything within the massive opus of the Frankfurt School that even remotely implies such a thing.
>you're undermining the gender role of motherhood as it has existed for an immense amount of animals since the dawn of vertebrates.
And also, you should take a long, serious look at nature before you base the human ideal of motherhood on an appeal to general vertebrate nature, as one thing's for sure: many species' females meet this to a considerably lesser degree than a human male would. The animal kingdom is full of mothers who will eat or abandon their young, or let them be killed by a new male mate.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:08:01 2015 No.6695837 >>6693343 please no, corn farmer

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:08:15 2015 No.6695838 >>6695818 amount----number if that were a question on the SAT you'd be out of luck partner why don't you take this to /pol/ they, like you, love to debate ideas of which their knowledge of wouldn't dare reach beyond the confines of a wikipedia page.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:22:51 2015 No.6695872 >>6695791 >>6695811 lmao

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:26:21 2015 No.6695881

>>6695830
>In other words, you have no idea how culture works.
You just don't like the connotation of the word "undermine".

>I challenge you to find anything within the massive opus of the Frankfurt School that even remotely implies such a thing.
Critical theory.

>The animal kingdom is full of mothers who will eat or abandon their young
Which is why I said "for an immense amount of animals" instead of "for all animals".
Look at primates for glimpse at motherhood before modern humans.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:27:36 2015 No.6695884 >>6695838 >amount----number Lol, please tell me what you think the problem is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:28:49 2015 No.6695886 >>6694474 >, it's not their race No one is saying it is the fucking race, but just that they are all black and also cannibals.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:33:12 2015 No.6695891 >>6695884 you used amount when you should have used number

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:34:32 2015 No.6695894 >>6695891 They're synonyms for countable nouns.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:35:19 2015 No.6695895

>>6695881
>You just don't like the connotation of the word "undermine".
Indeed, as it misses the point completely.
>Critical theory.
Okay, wow. I have had this kind of conversation quite a lot, but yours is the most stupid response to that challenge I have ever got. Some people will just shut up, presumably either desperately looking for stuff that isn't there, and some people will even try to throw quotes my way, whchafter a massive amount of mental gymnastics might not not imply what they believe they imply. But not you, you're taking the king's road of just throwing the name of the Frankfurt School's method my way. Genius. Bravo.
>Look at primates for glimpse at motherhood before modern humans.
Dude, you don't want to base human gender roles on primates, either. What happens in an average group of chimps pretty much beats anything evil critical theorist boogeymen could make of human society.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:36:19 2015 No.6695899 >>6695886 So? How is that racist?

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:39:11 2015 No.6695904

>>6695895
>Indeed, as it misses the point completely.
You're arguing over a word because it hurts your feelings.
Stop it.

>Okay, wow. I have had this kind of conversation quite a lot, but yours is the most stupid response to that challenge I have ever got. Some people will just shut up, presumably either desperately looking for stuff that isn't there, and some people will even try to throw quotes my way, whchafter a massive amount of mental gymnastics might not not imply what they believe they imply. But not you, you're taking the king's road of just throwing the name of the Frankfurt School's method my way. Genius. Bravo.
All those words and not a thing to say.
Critical theory aims to look critically at all aspects and assumptions of society, this includes basic things like motherhood.

>you don't want to base human gender roles on primates
You certainly do.
To an extent of course.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:41:40 2015 No.6695907 >>6695899 I'm not saying that it is.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:49:23 2015 No.6695914

>>6695904
>You're arguing over a word because it hurts your feelings.
No, I'm arguing over a word because it doesn't apply.
>Critical theory aims to look critically at all aspects and assumptions of society,
Yes, look critically. You don't seem to understand what critique is.
>this includes basic things like motherhood.
It indeed might, and there are actually passages that deal with family, marriage etc. But what you don't get is that looking critically at motherhood in modern society doesn't mean you want to abolish it. It means looking at the relation in which it stands to societal domination, both as an agent or medium of, and a potential source of resistance against such domination. Which is a thing you would know if you ad the ability to read e.g. Adorno's Minima Moralia, which I hereby recommend you at least try your hands on before you shitpost about things you don't know.
>You certainly do.
>To an extent of course.
In other words, you want the things you like, and not those you dislike. Congratulations, looking at primates can't deliver an ideal of human society either of us would want, you have disproven your own claim. Now can you do this with the rest of your claims, too?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:50:23 2015 No.6695916 >>6695907 Then what are we disagreeing about?

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:52:29 2015 No.6695921

>>6695914
I'm not going to continue this autismal debate with you.

Critical theory aims to look critically at everything in society, and change whatever is 'enslaving'.

This includes basic things like motherhood, as well as physiological things like gender and race.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 06:59:13 2015 No.6695929

>>6695921
>and change whatever is 'enslaving'.
Is there anything wrong or destructive about this?
>This includes basic things like motherhood, as well as physiological things like gender and race.
If those were used as a basis of enslavement, wouldn't it be appropriate to try and change this? What you don't seem to get is that this doesn't imply that race, gender, or motherhood are as such enslaving, just that you identify the traces of the general enslavement of man (they use domination, not enslavement, but whatever floats your boat) in the way these things play a role in society, and subsequently criticize that.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 07:01:53 2015 No.6695936

>>6695929
>If those were used as a basis of enslavement, wouldn't it be appropriate to try and change this?

When differences cause enslavement, you don't try to erase the differences (through sex-change operations or race mixing), you try to erase the enslavement.

Pretending that gender and racial differences aren't real is the ass-backwards way of doing this.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 07:10:46 2015 No.6695944

>>6695936
>When differences cause enslavement
What a nonsensical way of thinking about ths, it's not differences that cause enslavement, it's people doing the enslavement.
>you don't try to erase the differences (through sex-change operations or race mixing), you try to erase the enslavement.
Indeed. And I don't think anyone ever proclaimed those things as methods against enslavement, least of all the Frankfurt School.
>Pretending that gender and racial differences aren't real is the ass-backwards way of doing this.
It is no way of doing this at all, but it also has fuck all to do with critical theory.

Also, notice how you're contradicting yourself in your description of your ideological enemy: they can hardly simultaneously believe that gender and racial differences aren't real, and that mixing and sex-changes should eliminate those differences. Jesus, at least get your nonsense straight.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 07:17:45 2015 No.6695958 >>6695944 >What a nonsensical way of thinking about ths, it's not differences that cause enslavement, it's people doing the enslavement. That's exactly my point. >least of all the Frankfurt School Their train of thought directly led to this though.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 07:25:02 2015 No.6695974

>>6695958
>That's exactly my point.
And that is what the Frankfurt School does, they critique the ideology by which the enslavement is justified.
>Their train of thought directly led to this though.
To what, to people believing in blank slate theories, which are older than the Frannkfurt School, and a thing they criticized?
Or to people wanting to erase difference through race-mixing and sex changes, which isn't even an actual position of anyone?
And in either case, how are they responsible? You think you have understood them, clearly without having touched any of their books, explain to me how this is supposed to work.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 07:35:43 2015 No.6695988 >>6695974 People from the Frankfurt school like Adorno were hugely influential in the leftist movements that worked so hard on things like gay rights and gender roles, leading to the ridiculous trans and racial bullshit we're seeing today.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 07:42:54 2015 No.6695998

>>6695988
>People from the Frankfurt school like Adorno were hugely influential in the leftist movements that worked so hard on things like gay rights and gender roles, leading to the ridiculous trans and racial bullshit we're seeing today.
Can you point out what exact shape this influence took? No? Has anyone who does these horrible, horrible things ever even quoted Adorno or Horkheimer, or Marcuse? Then why are you claiming it? By now it is obvious that your entire knowledge of the Frankfurt School comes not even from Wikipedia, but from /pol/ infographics.

Here's a suggestion: blame Foucault instead. That would make several orders of magnitude more sense. He's not a jew, so that's probably a downside to you, but on the bright side, he was gay and died of aids.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 07:44:17 2015 No.6696000 >>6695998 >Can you point out what exact shape this influence took? The New Left.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 07:48:14 2015 No.6696004 >>6696000 Buzzwords seem to be your prefered debating device. How did Adorno's views inform the New Left's views on gender or racial relations? Again, Foucault, and arguably Fanon (he's black, scary!!) should be the people you get mad at.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 07:50:02 2015 No.6696007 File: 68 KB, 1267x496, Clipboard01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:09:03 2015 No.6696025 >>6696004 >How did Adorno's views inform the New Left's views on gender or racial relations? Again, I have been talking about the Frankfurt school in general this whole time.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:14:42 2015 No.6696036

>>6696025
Okay, then how did Marcuse or Horkheimer inform the New Left's views on race and gender?
Or are you refering to the rather obscure rest of the Frankfurt School, do you base your assertions on years of scholarship of the works of Leo Löwenthal or Siegfried Kracauer?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:15:13 2015 No.6696037 >>6696036 >no true Frankfurt schooler

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:18:58 2015 No.6696046 rub your fingers near your balls and then smell them do it now

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:20:42 2015 No.6696049

>>6696037
You do realize that the Frankfurt School is an actual group of people, not an abstract intellectual movement that includes anyone you dislike, right?
I know, reading anything longer than antisemitic infographs makes your head hurt, but here, read the wikipedia article, and then tell me which of those fuckers is responsible for trannies and race-mixing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:22:50 2015 No.6696053 >>6696046 smells like balls

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:23:50 2015 No.6696056 >>6696049 Wooops, forgot link, how are you supposed to find it? Sorry, here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:26:40 2015 No.6696061 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:29:00 2015 No.6696066 >>6693343 What is this epical mem about?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:47:11 2015 No.6696097 >>6693711 SJWs don't resemble Heideggerians at all. What the fuck are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:50:47 2015 No.6696104 >>6695998 Holy shit, this smackdown is brilliant

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 08:51:32 2015 No.6696105 >>6696097 I am, of course, talking about the substantial influence Heidegger has had on french postmodernist thought, from Sartre to Derrida.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:04:48 2015 No.6696121 File: 24 KB, 600x391, sarcasm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6695745 >>6695749 >>6695791 hardly functional autists among us

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:10:13 2015 No.6696129 >>6693875 what's the yams?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:22:53 2015 No.6696149 >>6696049 And the Frankfurt school has had a massive influence on the New Left.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:26:40 2015 No.6696153

>>6696149
Nobody is denying this. They were not the only influence, though. You still haven't been able to point out how any of the things you dislike about both the New Left and contemporay SJWs can be traced back to the Frankfurt School. How about you do some reading, and come back when you have something substantial to say?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:27:06 2015 No.6696155 >>6693343 please no, corn father

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:34:50 2015 No.6696166

>>6696153
>Nobody is denying this.
Wait, then what's this all about: >>6696004
>>6696036
>>6696049
?

>They were not the only influence, though.
What does that have to do with anything?

Also, the New Left was founded by one of the prominent names from the Frankfurt school.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:44:32 2015 No.6696183

>>6696166
Okay, does the following sentence contain a contradiction?
>the New Left was massively influenced by the Frankfurt School, but their views on race and gender had different sources.
That is what I'm trying to tell you you all the time, you're as thick as a brick wall. None of those posts denied the importance of the Frankfurt School to 60s/70s students. But do you think it's a coincidence that few people on the left still cite them?
>Also, the New Left was founded by one of the prominent names from the Frankfurt school
>founded
The New Left was not an actual organization, and Marcuse didn't found it. He's just called the father of the New Left because he was so important to them.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:49:21 2015 No.6696194

>>6696183
Why would their views on race and gender have different sources?
You can directly trace the source on their views of race and gender to the basic principle behind critical theory.

>The New Left was not an actual organization, and Marcuse didn't found it. He's just called the father of the New Left because he was so important to them.
I didn't say it was an organization, and you have autism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:52:48 2015 No.6696198 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:54:24 2015 No.6696201 >>6693557 You've just been memed, friend.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:54:27 2015 No.6696203

>>6696194
>Why would their views on race and gender have different sources?
Because feminism and the civil rights movement actually already existed back then, without the Frankfurt School being particularly involved in either.
>You can directly trace the source on their views of race and gender to the basic principle behind critical theory
Then do this, I'm waiting.
>I didn't say it was an organization, and you have autism.
You said it was founded by Marcuse. This is nonsense, Marcuse never founded anthing.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:57:39 2015 No.6696211

>>6696203
>Then do this, I'm waiting.
Critical theory: "criticize and change basic assumptions about society that enslave".
This includes race and gender.

Critical theory basically says everything about society is a construct that can be molded as one sees fit.

>This is nonsense, Marcuse never founded anthing.
Ok, how abouve he 'fathered' the New Left?
You autist.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 09:58:39 2015 No.6696214 >>6696211 >how abouve how about*

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 10:07:27 2015 No.6696230

>>6696211
>criticize and change basic assumptions about society that enslave
alright. not a very good characterization, but fine.
>This includes race and gender
Oh really? No one back then, neither feminists, nor the civil rights movement, nor marxists believed that being black or a woman was in itself a condition of domination. If anything it's exclusion based on race or gender that constitutes domination, and are yyou denying this? That's not marxis, that's garden variety common sense.
>Critical theory basically says everything about society is a construct
What would a construct be, anyway? Does it mean that society is artificial? Of course it fucking is, societies don't grow on trees.
>that can be molded as one sees fit.
That absolutely does not follow. Actually, that's a view the Frankfurt School would have associated with fascism, triumph of the will and all, you know? (well, you don't know, but what can I do?)
>Ok, how abouve he 'fathered' the New Left?
Well that's still sort of weird, as he didn't really do anything other than theorize, while it was the students who organized. That being said, he's different from the rest of the Frankfurt School to the extent that he didn't reject his role as a leading intellectual, while people like Adorno and Horkheimer basically told the students to fuck off.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 10:11:17 2015 No.6696239

>>6696230
>Does it mean that society is artificial?
Yes.

>that society is artificial? Of course it fucking is, societies don't grow on trees.
That's the kind of thinking the Frankfurt school leads to, yes.
However, in reality some of the basics (like motherhood, gender, races, ...) are biological.

>That absolutely does not follow.
But you just said yourself society is artificial, why would it not be moldable?

>he's different from the rest of the Frankfurt School
No true Frankfurt schooler.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 10:18:39 2015 No.6696251

>>6696239
>However, in reality some of the basics (like motherhood, gender, races, ...) are biological.
The basis of literally everything that is artificial is partially non-artificial, this goes without saying.
>But you just said yourself society is artificial, why would it not be moldable?
Given the differences between, say, stone age tribes, Khmer Rouge Cambodia, and modern day Wisconsin, of course there are a great number of shapes society can take, but that doesn't make it an arbitrary decision of individual will.
>No true Frankfurt schooler.
I never said he wasn't a true Frankfurt Scholar, (schooler is not a word m8), just that there was this difference from his pals. Which still doesn't make him responsible for the cultural impact of MLK or Simone de Beauvoir.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 10:20:15 2015 No.6696255 >>6693343 Can someone pls explain this maymay? I stopped using /lit/ last year and I'm too neo-newfag to get it

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 10:23:02 2015 No.6696262 >>6696251 >schooler is not a word m8 Dude.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 10:28:20 2015 No.6696280 >>6696262 I normally would assume that the person I'm talking to knows this and is just being colloquial, but in this case all bets are off.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 10:34:05 2015 No.6696299

>>6696280
My basic point is that the Frankfurt school says society is a construct, leading to the modern retardation that gender and race are also constructs; be it directly or as convergent evolution.

Of course society and culture are "created", and many variations exist, but there is still a biological basis, and there's no reason to completely stomp out Western culture and radically alter the genetic stock of Western Europe.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 10:48:47 2015 No.6696332

>>6696299
>My basic point is that the Frankfurt school says society is a construct
Jesus Christ, this is not a new idea, people have been perfectly aware of this for ages. The particular new thing about critical theory is the critical attitude towards your own society. Now note something: This means Marx invented critical theory, not the Frankfurt School.
> leading to the modern retardation that gender and race are also constructs
If anything, this has its roots in some assumptions of classical liberalism. "All men are created equal" wasn't put were it stands by jewish marxists, you know? (This is not a rethorical question anymore, do you realize that?)
>but there is still a biological basis Of course, no serious marxist has ever denied the exstence of human nature.
>and there's no reason to completely stomp out Western culture and radically alter the genetic stock of Western Europe.
Marxist theory, has some very good explanations why such things are happening, and they don't involve marxist plotting. Immigration is a result of global capitalism, and if you want to know why culture is going to shit, maybe you should read the chapter on cultuere industry in Dialectics of Enlightenment.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:01:09 2015 No.6696371 >>6696332 You keep starting these autismal point-by-point debates. I have said my peace. Frankfurt school had a major influence on today's leftists, directly contributing to today's "race and gender are social constructs" retardation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:03:53 2015 No.6696378 File: 435 KB, 1051x378, my way.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:05:20 2015 No.6696386

>>6696371
>You keep starting these autismal point-by-point debates.
It says quite a lot about your intellectual capacities that you think this is a bad thing.
>Frankfurt school had a major influence on today's leftists, directly contributing to today's "race and gender are social constructs" retardation.
This is still blatantly wrong on both counts. Today's leftists haven't read anything by the Frankfurt School, and neither have people like Judith Butler, who basically invented the meme of gender being a social construct.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:07:08 2015 No.6696391 >>6696386 >It says quite a lot about your intellectual capacities that you think this is a bad thing. Having massive point-by-point arguments on 4chan is a pretty bad thing, trust me. >This is still blatantly wrong on both counts. If you say so.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:13:45 2015 No.6696414

>>6696391
>Having massive point-by-point arguments on 4chan is a pretty bad thing, trust me.
Unless you run into retards who refuse even acknowledge what you say, it's pretty much alright, at least on /lit/. Maybe you should haul your ass back to /pol/ or /r9k/, or /b/?
>If you say so.
Since I base my claims on actual knowledge of both the philosophy of the Frankfurt School and of today's academic left, yeah, I'm pretty confident that I'm making more sense than whatever rumbles around in your brain when you hear the word "construct". Which, again, isn't even a Frankfurt School concept.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:16:24 2015 No.6696421 >>6696414 So according to you, the Frankfurt school's influence on the New Left was a dead end, and the whole "gender and race are social constructs" thing comes from elsewhere entirely?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:22:10 2015 No.6696437 >>6696414 >claims discussions on /lit/ are alright >keeps ad-homming my intelligence and telling me to "go back 2 /pol/, /b/, ..."

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:24:19 2015 No.6696448 >>6693726 This type of dialogue is not constructive I expect better out of you in the future

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:24:48 2015 No.6696449 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:25:38 2015 No.6696453 >>6696421 Pretty much, yeah. For one the Frankfurt School is way too impractical and critical of mass culture for lasting appeal to student activists.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:26:31 2015 No.6696454 >>6696453 Right. Even though critical theory directly leads to exactly that kind of thought process?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:26:46 2015 No.6696456 >>6696437 Oh well, your behaviour warrants that, as you are ill-informed and unwilling to learn.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:27:53 2015 No.6696458 >>6696454 >Even though critical theory directly leads to exactly that kind of thought process? That's the point, it doesn't ffs. Repeating your claim that it does doesn't change this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:28:31 2015 No.6696461 >>6696456 >you make me post like an asshole lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:30:22 2015 No.6696463 >>6696461 No, you make me talk to you like you'd talk to someone who is confidently ignorant. This isn't asshole behaviour, it is perfectly appropriate.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:31:19 2015 No.6696466 >>6696458 >it doesn't But it directly aims to critique and change all aspects of society whenever enslavement is perceived. This includes gender and race.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:32:19 2015 No.6696468 >>6696463 >telling someone they're unintelligent, illiterate, and anti-semitic is not asshole behavior

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:32:35 2015 No.6696469 Social Justice is fully in line with critical theory and is its logical succession. >I don't like social justice That's because you're blinded by your own privilege.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:33:24 2015 No.6696471 >>6696466 It aims to critique society with the aim of denouncing, and thus in the long run ending domination. How the fuck does this imply that race and gender are to be removed?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:34:51 2015 No.6696472 >>6696468 Not if they act unintelligent, illiterate, and antisemitic, no. >>6696469 lol,nice try.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:38:31 2015 No.6696479

>>6696471
>thus in the long run ending domination
In other words, seek social justice.

This kind of thinking causes people to find enslavement and domination in everything.

"I'm a man who identifies as a female but people give me strange looks so they're oppressing me."

>>6696472
>Not if they act unintelligent, illiterate, and antisemitic, no.
See, you apparently don't know how to write adverbs in English, but I'm not going to call you unintelligent and illiterate.
Because I'm not an asshole, and I certainly don't blame others for my asshole-ish behavior.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:38:37 2015 No.6696480 >>6696456 I'm going to have to side with him You're arguments boil down to "I can't articulate my own points so I'll just name drop, also get off muh board. Cheggm8 :D"

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:39:12 2015 No.6696482 >>6693343 please no, corn father

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:39:18 2015 No.6696483

>>6695881
I hope you do realize "Critical Theory" is nothing but a tool, one that can be used to promote reactionary / right-wing ideas, too bad the right can't produce a single thinker of any worth to do this.

A nazi who gets shot by a Luger is still a dead nazi.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:40:41 2015 No.6696486 >>6696483 I do realize that, just like I realize that the New Left took critical theory and ran with it for the fulfillment of their leftist agenda.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:40:58 2015 No.6696489 >>6695791 Hahahaha holy shit, why are you even on this board man?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:41:49 2015 No.6696492 >>6693102 >what was he right about? >hey, Im being a naive positivist with no problematic relation to the world or the language in which I express it and no one can stop me !

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:46:46 2015 No.6696503

>>6696479
>In other words, seek social justice
It's called communism, not social justice.
>This kind of thinking causes people to find enslavement and domination in everything
What kind of thinking, the kind that is against domination? How does this even work?
>If I'm against something, I find it everywhere.
Could this be projection? Do you see SJWs everywhere because they're constantly on your mind?
>"I'm a man who identifies as a female but people give me strange looks so they're oppressing me."
You don't have to be a marxist to be a tranny and not want to be discriminated for that.
>>6696480
Dude, I have spend hours explaining what the frankfurt school did and what it didn't. Also, he didn't ask me questions, he made false claims. He is clearly unwilling to even read anything by the people he blames for everything.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:47:19 2015 No.6696505

The answer to the debate running through this thread is relatively simple.

There are those who took Critical Theory and saw its logical end as Social Justice and there are those who view that interpretation as a tool to fuel capitalism for even longer through divide and conquer.

There is no point in arguing over what the original founders of the Frankfurt School meant (I mean in the context of this thread, not in general) because people arrived at different conclusions! I despise Gen X identity politics, BUT I can understand how and why they misinterpreted what the Frankfurt School was about.

Furthermore most of them I've intereacted with aren't terribly bright, they are dogmaticists of the lowest order.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:52:30 2015 No.6696518

>>6696503
There you go again with your massive point-by-point arguments.

Frankfurt school => New Left => SJW bullcrap

Done.

>>6696505
This.

Like I said in the beginning, even if the Frankfurt school didn't actively pursue an SJW endgame, I believe they should have known what their endeavours to overthrow Western culture could lead to.

>inb4 massive discussion about the word "overthrow"

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 11:56:28 2015 No.6696525

>>6696518
The thing is, SJW aren't trying to overthrow western culture.

They want it to remain just the same, creating a more inclusive capitalism instead of completely erasing it, and while I'm not well versed in most thinkers of the Frankfurt School, I can tell you Adorno, Horkheimer and Benjamin wouldn't be pro-anything that creates more capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:02:08 2015 No.6696541 >>6696525 Lol, then I guess we have different definitions of what it means to overthrow a culture.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:11:51 2015 No.6696566

>>6696518
>There you go again with your massive point-by-point arguments
Okay, you have to decide now, am I being too accurate, or too insulting? Or is it both? I only now realize, i want it to be both.
What you're doing by now is the equivalent of sticking your fingers into your ears and going LAAALAAALAAA.
Which doesn't change the fact that the topic clearly goes over your head, as evidenced by you repeating your premise over and over again, as if that made it true.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:17:31 2015 No.6696579 >>6696566 Did you have a point other than "why won't you say I'm right!"?

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:19:18 2015 No.6696580

>>6696505
So you're saying SJWs are misinterpreting Adorno (protip: they'd have to read him in order to do tjat, which they don't), but this is at the same time completely irrelevant to the question of wether or not Adorno is to blame for them? Makes perfect sense.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:21:18 2015 No.6696582 >>6696580 But that poster didn't say a word about Adorno.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:21:35 2015 No.6696583 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:22:08 2015 No.6696585 >>6696579 You don't have to say anything. Not even admit that you know fuck all about critical theory. All I want you to do is shut up and read a book.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:23:14 2015 No.6696592 >>6696580 Lots of neo-nazis probably have no clue who Nietsche was, doesn't keep them from adhering to some of his concepts through nazism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:24:15 2015 No.6696595 >>6696585 >you know fuck all about critical theory If you say so.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:27:21 2015 No.6696599 >>6696582 Has adorno stopped being representative of the Frankfurt school? I think not. >>6696592 Oh well, blaming Nietzsche for the Nazis is just as retarded, he hated nationalists and antisemites.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:28:52 2015 No.6696601 >>6696580 No what I'm saying is they got a second hand interpretation of critical theory (they read no first hand works) and through a distorted understanding formed these conclusions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:30:43 2015 No.6696602 >>6696599 >Has adorno stopped being representative of the Frankfurt school? I think not. Oh boy.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:44:27 2015 No.6696635

>>6696595
It's pretty obvious from your refusal to even consider any account of it that goes beyond
>everything is constructs i do what i want lol
>>6696601
Oh well, this may be true in some cases, but I don't think the Frankfurt School has had that much of a lasting impact in academia, either.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:45:33 2015 No.6696637 >>6696635 >why do you refuse to say i'm right??!!!?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:47:09 2015 No.6696642 >>6696492 People who use positivist as an epithet have brain damage from drinking the postmodern critical theory coolaid.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:49:50 2015 No.6696650 >>6696637 Again, all I'm asking you is to read a book. As you seem to be interested enough in critical theory to make unsubstantiated claims about its tenets for hours on end, I might recommend either Minima Moralia or Dialecticts of Enlightenment.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:50:43 2015 No.6696654 >>6696650 You have no clue what I've been saying this whole thread, and indeed in my very first post.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:52:16 2015 No.6696659 >>6696654 Oh well, then read past the second chapter?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:52:27 2015 No.6696660 File: 86 KB, 600x600, walter pepjamin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6696599 >Has adorno stopped being representative of the Frankfurt school? I think not. >Adorno is representative of Benjamin

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:55:07 2015 No.6696669 >>6696660 Now Benjamin clearly is no true Frankfurt Scholar, he was never even part of the institute, and also died before critical theory had reached maturity.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:56:31 2015 No.6696678 /lit/ - literally autism

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 12:59:53 2015 No.6696688

>>6696669
In fact, he had nothing to do with it. Most of his major works(like The Work of Art...) have no discourse consciousness whatsoever, embracing the enlightenment and so on. That's one
thing I really love about them, although I don't really disagree with critical theory.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:00:01 2015 No.6696689

>>6693780
Which includes rejecting any scientific and empirical evidence concerning human behaviour as "positivist therefore wrong" .

example:
"hey look newborn baby boys maintain eye contact on average significantly less than newborn baby girls. Also look at this boys hav a lot more testosterone than girls which is linked in a lot of ways to aggression. It seems pretty likely on the basis of empirical evidence that on average there are biologically predisposed differences in behaviour between men and women and that these average differences would affect men and women's preferred choice of work, in addition to cultural influences"

Critical theoretic response
"fuck off you biological essentialist. Don't you know that all positivism about human society is wrong , you Nazi shitlord?"

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:01:59 2015 No.6696698 >>6696689 >"fuck off you biological essentialist. Don't you know that all positivism about human society is wrong , you Nazi shitlord?" Which critical theorist are you quoting?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:06:10 2015 No.6696714 >>6696698 >Which critical theorist are you quoting? The ones who flood the halls of academia

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:10:00 2015 No.6696723 >>6696689 That's how I understood it as well. The idea is to change the underlying assumptions of society, and for instance "mothers are more motherly" is one of these 'assumptions' according to their logic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:16:07 2015 No.6696743 >>6696714 The halls of academia are flooded with strawmen?

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:20:26 2015 No.6696755
File: 63 KB, 1152x648, 1410462977356.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6693888
>it's time to back this up.

Done.
The rejection of positivism (which includes any use of empirical evidence or hypothesis testing against data to fin out about reality) is what has lead to leftists rejecting things like the biological differences between men and women and instead making emotional arguments claims that everything is a social construct.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:21:30 2015 No.6696756 >>6696642 Actually I was referring to Comte's positivism ans his naive views on the "three stages" of knowledge.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:22:57 2015 No.6696761 >>6696714 >critical theory is bad because critical theorists say "thing I don't agree with" >people who say "thing I don't agree with" are critical theorists per definition nice circular argument

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:26:58 2015 No.6696768 >>6696755 Ho-lee fucking shit. Why would a "school of thought" reject empirical evidence and hypothesis testing? How is this in any way an intellectual pursuit? I feel like I'm just starting to scratch the surface of leftist idiocy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:30:12 2015 No.6696781 >>6696698 I'm not quoting, I'm paraphrasing a typical leftwing academic response to being confronted with biological evidence pertinent to feminism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:30:16 2015 No.6696783 >>6696768 Calm down, it's an over-simplified infographic. Being critical of the positivst method, as defined by Comte, is not the same as actively rejecting all empirical evidence.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:32:45 2015 No.6696788

>>6696755
First of all, that's not a text from a Frankfurt School author, and generally a very bad source as no author is identifyable. For all we know, this could be a screenshot of a text you just wrote.
But yes, in the realm of sociology, the Frankfurt School is anti-positivistic, which is to say, they deny the possibility of a sociology operating purely on the principles of the natural sciences. The reason for that is largely the absence of a neutral point of view on any social phenomenon, not the association of science with instrumental reason.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:34:44 2015 No.6696794 >>6696783 >>6696788 So the Frankfurt school does acknowledge empirical things like sexual dimorphism (motherhood, superior male strength, ...) as a valid reason for certain aspects of society?

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:34:45 2015 No.6696795

>>6696783
>Being critical of the positivst method, as defined by Comte, is not the same as actively rejecting all empirical evidence.
Even if that was the intent back in the 50s, the end result IS a slew of left wing academics today rejecting empirical evidence about things to do with society.

as per >>6696689

Also saying that it's over-simplified is quite a cheap, facile charge.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:35:26 2015 No.6696797 >>6696781 >feminism assumes there are no natural differences between men and women I'm not actually old enough to say this, but man, fucking millenials.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:38:42 2015 No.6696804 >>6696794 I don't know if they ever claimed anything about human biology, but as the proper freudians they were, they obviously believed in differences between men and women.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:40:10 2015 No.6696806 >>6696761 Per their own definition One autist on /lit/ (you) does not out gun the whole movement with your denial. Keep trying the no true Scotsman though

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:40:32 2015 No.6696807

>>6696755
Everything that we can talk about is a social construct.

We do not, and will never, have access to reality in itself (go read Kant ffs). But we do never construct something out of thin air, which means that there's some basic materials behind everything we say that we can't talk about without... talking about it and thus dying it with social constructs.

And all that it means is that we should always try to have a problematic relation on what we call reality.

It's not because feminists on reddit are stupid that saying the opposite of their claims is clever.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:41:40 2015 No.6696813 >>6696795 >the end result IS a slew of left wing academics today rejecting empirical evidence about things to do with society Quick, answer without thinking, who is being read more in current academia, Foucault or Marcuse?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:42:08 2015 No.6696815 >>6696807 >We do not, and will never, have access to reality in itself Except the biological reality of sexual dimorphism for example, right? I mean, we do have a pretty good handle on stuff like that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:42:28 2015 No.6696816 >>6693343 please no, corn father!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:42:42 2015 No.6696818 >>6693343 please no, corn father

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:42:52 2015 No.6696819 >>6696813 Marcuse as he is jewish.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:43:46 2015 No.6696821

>>6696788
>First of all, that's not a text from a Frankfurt School author, and generally a very bad source as no author is identifyable. For all we know, this could be a screenshot of a text you just wrote.

That's irrelevant because anyone who is familiar with the Frankfurt school's ideas and is intellectually honest would admit that it is correct.
But here is the source
http://www.academia.edu/711917/Garland_C._2010_The_Death_and_New_Life_of_Critical_Theory_The_Frankfurt_School_Then_and_Now_Lecture_notes_for_Methodologies_Cultural_Turns_CVCS_Stage_5_MA_Contemporary_Art_Theory_Centre_for_Visual_and_Creative_Studies_CVCS_Edinburgh_College_of_Art

>the Frankfurt School is anti-positivistic, which is to say, they deny the possibility of a sociology operating purely on the principles of the natural sciences.

Wrong. They resist any explanation for a social outcome that relies on scientific empirical evidence (usually biology is what is relevant).

a rational person accepts that cultural forces play a role in determining most social outcomes AND that measured and empirically investigated biological predispositions also have an effect on some social outcomes.

But the part of the above sentence after the "AND" is positivism which is something the Frankfurt school does its best to resist on ideological grounds.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:45:31 2015 No.6696825 >>6696066 >>6696255 It's a /lit/ take on those dumb chain letter style memes with Nabokov based on the fact that he called Faulkner's prose "corncobby" saying it was boring and provincial.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:45:57 2015 No.6696827

>>6696797
That's not what I said, but it is true for a large section of contemporary feminists.

And even when they don't outright contradict biological or other empirical evidence, they try their best to ignore it and move the debate away from it and downplay it.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:47:05 2015 No.6696829

>>6696815
These are practical differences that we should take into consideration when establishing the categories in which we are going to think the world and act in it. But it's nonetheless a speech act.

As Hume would say "As an agent, I am quite satisfied in the point. But as a philosopher..."

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:47:39 2015 No.6696832 >>6696813 I don't know. Would you be happier if I blamed Foucault as well as the frenkfurt school? Because I already do. Both of those entities are intellectual cancers who have damaged humanity and continue to do so.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:49:16 2015 No.6696835

>>6696819
Kek.
>>6696821
>They resist any explanation for a social outcome that relies on scientific empirical evidence (usually biology is what is relevant)
There's a good reason for this, as I said: the impossibility of a neutral perspective. You can use science in sociology, but you can't rely on it, because you're part of the society you're investigating, and your results have societal consequences.
>But the part of the above sentence after the "AND" is positivism
It only is positivism without the AND and the first part.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:50:29 2015 No.6696838 >>6696832 They are no intellectual cancers dumbfuck, they were exploring some radical hypothesis. They knew that they were going too far sometimes but they did not claim to have discovered the ultimate truth about human knowledge.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:52:35 2015 No.6696841

>>6696827
And now ask yourself, do contemporary feminists read Adorno, Horkheimer, or Marcuse? Exactly, they don't.
>>6696832
Ok look, the point is, Foucault is a staple of the current humanities, while reading Marcuse only happens on the fringes.
And Foucault's influence is literally sufficient to explain all of the things you're complaining about. You're barking up the wrong tree, is all.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 13:58:13 2015 No.6696855

>>6696841
>And now ask yourself, do contemporary feminists read Adorno, Horkheimer, or Marcuse?

Not on reddit or facebook, that's for sure. But you seem to be taking quite easy ennemies here. There might be some decent feminists thinkers and writers out there that we have not yet heard about.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:00:10 2015 No.6696860

>>6696807
You've talked about social constructs in quite a different context from how it was used in >>6696755

I'm sorry, your post is learned but not relevant.

When contemporary left wing academics and those influenced by them say that for example "race is a social construct" what they are doing is trying to spread the impression that there are no significant biological differences between different races, so that it would make just as much sense for aboriginies and Icelanders to be grouped together as an ethnic group as it would for Gauls and Celts. The motivation being that people might stop looking for very inconvenient biological evidence that likely will be found (and already has to some degree) that certain groups of people have allele distributions that cause them to have higher average IQ than others.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:01:16 2015 No.6696866 >>6696855 Nancy Fraser is the only contemporary feminist I can think of who is somewhat influenced by Adorno. Other than that, they must all be obscure as fuck.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:04:34 2015 No.6696880

>>6696860
>The motivation being that people might stop looking for very inconvenient biological evidence that likely will be found (and already has to some degree) that certain groups of people have allele distributions that cause them to have higher average IQ than others.
Why would leftists have a problem with people having different IQs?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:06:01 2015 No.6696884 File: 76 KB, 1581x410, rw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:22:39 2015 No.6696927 >>6696880 Intelligence is not as inheritable in humans as you probably think it is

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:30:48 2015 No.6696958 >>6693810 Freud = Fraud

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:33:04 2015 No.6696968

>>6696794
There is quite a leap from acknowledging a degree of sexual dimorphism(which practically everybody do) to recognising it as a valid reason for anything. The fact alone that there is a difference between the sexes does not mean that conventions relating to gender can not be arbitary.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:37:57 2015 No.6696981 >>6693343 p..um..P-PLEASE NO, CORN FATHER GASP

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:41:16 2015 No.6696995 >>6693102 Who told that retard that all philosophy is a footnote to Plato

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:42:27 2015 No.6696996 >>6692632 The fact that Greek in Plato's time had no word for "passive voice" made the Euthyphro so convoluted. I read it at the end of 2014, and it took a long time for me to reconstruct the arguments.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:45:19 2015 No.6697007 >>6696995 Alfred North Whitehead.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:45:31 2015 No.6697009

>>6696841
contemporary feminists meaning people who post comments on jezebel and xojane and tumblr have not.
The writers for contemporary feminist articles are quite likely to have read summaries of their ideas (as I have) while they were doing their arts and humanities degrees.
The college lecturers who influenced those jezebel editors and their readerbase are likely to have.
The "big name" academic feminists who carry on the critical theoretic tradition are very likely to have and they are the ones who in turn inspired all those college lecturers to be critical theoretic and anti-positivist, and subsequently in all those students etc.
So you do not need to have directly read those guys for those guys to have affected your behaviour and mindset.

>>6696835
>You can use science in sociology, but you can't rely on it, because you're part of the society you're investigating, and your results have societal consequences.

1. the societal consequences that might happen after releasing a research paper don't retrospectively make that research paper wrong. You can claim that the research might change society after it is released so that the research is no longer valid, but that claim can be examined on a case by case basis. For many research papers that claim would not be true. For example if you find that newborn baby girls maintain eyecontact for longer on average than newborn baby boys, releasing the paper isn't going to change that.
>because you're part of the society you're investigating,
Again the claim that this is relevent needs to be examined on a case by case basis depending on the thing being investigated and the method, because patently some of the time it's insignificant. So you can't just throw out everything that counts as "positivist" on these grounds, which is what contemporary lefties almost always want to do.

For example in the example above, if you time how long a newborn baby makes eye contact for , that's a pretty robust, unambiguous thing that you're measuring, especially if you have more than one observer with a stop watch.

>It only is positivism without the AND and the first part.
Well the the typical leftwing discourse is opposed to any biological explanations so even if you claim that the Frankfurt school are more reasonable and rational, the people that their ideas have resulted in are not.
Furthermore I believe you're wrong to say that positivism necessarily must concede no cultural role in societal outcomes. Rather it is positivist to allow any explanations that are based on empirical evidence or scientific method (most often coming from human biology).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:45:57 2015 No.6697010 >>6693875 Dat king of crops. Also palm wine.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:46:47 2015 No.6697012 >>6696995 Whitehead. And that's pretty correct.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:49:22 2015 No.6697017

>>6696927
the mainstream concensus based on the evidence is that a large part of it is genetic (twin studies), a small part of it is environment unless that environment is extreme (adoption studies), and a big part seems to be just random neuron development in utero or early infanthood, which maybe environment or genetic in some way but seems to sort of act like a random number generator.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:53:04 2015 No.6697030 >>6693343 please no, corn father

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 14:56:46 2015 No.6697048

>>6697009
I'm new to the discussion but I will throw in my heavyweight opinion.

The two fellows arguing...you're both right to a degree. The pollack arguing about frankfurt school etc. is correct in that it influenced the current hysteria of the left. The one sticking up for the frankfurt school is correct in that it is very likely that 99% of the plebeian population has not read any direct works from that school.

The vast majority of people are stupid and their compass is still a direct result of our entire evolution...aka if you don't agree and fit in with what everyone else is saying, then you will be ousted from the tribe and likely not survive to have offspring. This resulted in a literal shitstorm of circumstances that have led to how easy it is to manipulate society on a whole. People need to fit in.

Jezebel et al only exist because of the profit motive. These insane ideas are only percolating through society because the corporations receive ad revenue. Oh and because divide and conquer is a real thing and pretty standard practice for the overseers of a society. Think of how much progress could be made if we weren't all focused on all these insane issues. We might actually elect proper representatives of government, we might actually band together and boycott a company that sells harmful product etc etc.

I really hope you guys realize this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 15:23:30 2015 No.6697145 >>6693343 please no, corn father

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 16:14:43 2015 No.6697372

>>6697009
I think you are mistaken about the genealogy of contemporary anti-positivism. Adorno really is only a footnote to those people, I happen to know this first hand.

It isn't Marx => Nietzsche => Freud => Adorno

It is Nietzsche => Heidegger => Sartre => Foucault

Note also how Nietzsche is the one common denominator: now that guy really absolutely is to blame for any kind of relativism you'll encounter in the humanities.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 16:43:56 2015 No.6697537

>>6697372
>Sartre => Foucault

Nope.avi

>Note also how Nietzsche is the one common denominator: now that guy really absolutely is to blame for any kind of relativism you'll encounter in the humanities.

Why not Protagoras then ? Nietzsche is far from being the first to explore the possibilities of relativism and we even have to say that he took great care in doing so.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 17:02:32 2015 No.6697633 >>6697537 >Nope.avi Lrn2dialectics m8 Foucault retains Sartre's leftist spin on Heidegger, but does away with the thing that was always fishy about him, the humanism. >Why not Protagoras then Because no department except philosophy knows who that is.

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 17:43:22 2015 No.6697735
File: 307 KB, 600x887, tmp_16028-tumblr_nazzulPQ2c1qjy9hxo1_1280558926887.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6696821
>mfw opening that link
>the best you could come up with was a presentation by a contemporary arts guy
>not even a professor
>just some dude
I know this thread is dead, I just wanted to tell you how sad you make me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 16 19:27:13 2015 No.6698078 >>6697735 >That's irrelevant because anyone who is familiar with the Frankfurt school's ideas and is intellectually honest would admit that it is correct. Nice appeal to authority tho m8

Anonymous Tue Jun 16 19:42:07 2015 No.6698124

>>6698078
>>That's irrelevant because anyone who is familiar with the Frankfurt school's ideas and is intellectually honest would admit that it is correct.
I wouldn't say that's true, at the very least it misconstrues the reasoning behing Frankfurt anti-positivism.
And seriously, this is a literature board, using a fucking powerpoint presentation should be beneath you.

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/lit/ - Literature