/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6680857]

Why would God create Satan?

He obviously has knowledge of the future as shown through the book of revelations.

[Anonymous No.6680860]

>>6680857

I always thought it was an incentive for humans to be moral

[Anonymous No.6680865]

>>6680857
>Why would God create Satan?

To blame shit on.

[Anonymous No.6680868]

>>6680857
I always thought it was so Satan could be a scapegoat for the shitty stuff that God does.

[Anonymous No.6680883]

I'm pretty sure the modern understanding of "Satan" is very far off from the original intention of the character.

[Anonymous No.6680885]

He can see into the future, it's just the human conception of time is backwards, what we call "the past" is actually "the future".
We can all see into the future to varying degrees, God is simply the best at it.

[Anonymous No.6680892]

>>6680857
Because He can.

[Anonymous No.6680893]

>God is good and holy
>That's why he created the most evil being in existence despite knowing it'd end up being evil.
>God loves all mankind.
>That's why he's sending a bunch of them to hell.

[Anonymous No.6680899]

>>6680857
1) Because God loves Satan, (that's pretty much the reason he creates anything), and 2) for the sake of the good Satan would bring about unintentionally.

[Anonymous No.6680902]

satan is just god in disguise
being good all the time is too boring

[Anonymous No.6680907]

>>6680885
>omg backwards is forwards and forwards is backwards and future is varying degrees god is so great hurr durr i have no evidence im autistic someone please put me out of my misery.

[Anonymous No.6680914]

>>6680907
>hurr durr wugga wugga ding dong
*TIPS LE FEDORA*

Get back to Reddit kiddo

[Anonymous No.6680917]

>>6680857
>Questioning God
>ever
I'll see you morons in hell (from heaven)

thinking you can understand the motivations of the omnipotent? why are fedoras so fucking arrogant and ignorant?

[Anonymous No.6680922]

>>6680914
>Oh look it's someone who said something I don't like, I should reply to them.
>Hmm, I know. I'll tell them to go back to reddit or /pol.

[Anonymous No.6680936]

Read a book about it and spare us your teenage musings.

[Anonymous No.6680964]

>>6680917
>makes a world where children are raped and die of preventable disease
>gets butthurt when someone asks why

christfags btfo

[Anonymous No.6680987]

>>6680964
>things I don't like happen
>ergo there is no God
are you trolling or do you actually believe this?

[Anonymous No.6681004]

>>6680987
This world is as perfect as it can be, sans the actions of the Men in it who He gave free will.

[Anonymous No.6681048]

>>6680857
>babbys first hermeneutics

[Anonymous No.6681054]

Imagine reading Milton without the terrible jokes. That's why.

[Anonymous No.6681069]

>>6680857
>caring about non-issues

[Anonymous No.6681425]

>>6680936
What book should I read?

[Anonymous No.6681430]

Well, I personally dont believe in his existence, it is more of a postchristian myth based on pagan superstitions.
but suppose he exists, it is usually explained in this way
Angels are free beings therefore capable of sinning, as angels dont posses bodies they are only capable of intellectual sins like pride.
God created Satan not as an evil being but as a free being who then chose to become evil

[Anonymous No.6681440]

>>6681425
try a wiki article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy

[Anonymous No.6681516]

>>6680857

Because, anon, the bible is fiction. Those are stories, they are not real.

[Anonymous No.6681556]

>>6680857
Same reason you made this thread - for fun

[Anonymous No.6681570]

>>6681430
And if God is omniscient, as he explicitly is stated to be, then he would know the exact choices Satan would make, and exactly what would happen. Therefore all of time is hypothetically predetermined by God, therefore any "free" choice we make is predetermined, therefore the choice is not free

[Anonymous No.6681582]

>>6680899

But how about the evil Satan brings about intentionally? What about the hosts of sinners who end up in hell?

[Anonymous No.6681595]

>>6680987

>things happen that cause tremendous suffering without human causation whatsoever
>"K, God does things which aren't nice."
>"He's still the supremely benign entity that is painted in the NT tho, like for no reason guise."

[Anonymous No.6681604]

>>6681570

Yeah, and even the free choice of God is known beforehand therefore it is predetermined, therefore God is a slave to his own condition, as is the universe he created.

[Anonymous No.6681611]

>>6681595
You must be pretty special for an omnipotent deity to subscribe to you ethical and moral values and determinations.

Read Job and City of God you dumb fuck. If you've already read them ask an older boy to explain them to you because you clearly didn't understand them.

[Anonymous No.6681621]

>>6681604

If you ever use that argument against the omnipotence paradox I posted, ever, you will suffer in misery for at least a decade.

[Anonymous No.6681622]

>>6681611

What ethical and moral value is there in dying of malaria or getting crushed by a fallen building in an earthquake?

And don't get me started on determinism.

[Anonymous No.6681625]

>>6681611
>mfw God #reks Job at the end of that book

[Anonymous No.6681626]

>>6680857

>taking a story written by a bunch of Jews in the desert 2000 years ago literally

Ayyy

[Anonymous No.6681628]

>>6681621

I'm not using it as an argument against, but rather as a supporting evidence against the axioms.

Also why would you wish a decade of misery on anyone?

[Anonymous No.6681630]

>>6680857

A question I've always wondered is, why is it much easier to believe in God, rather than Satan. When a pastor starts spewing off about fire, brimstone, devil, satan and all that shit... I roll my eyes. Is there any denomination that doesn't believe in hell and satan crap? Cause I think that would be my group.

[Anonymous No.6681639]

>>6681626
>2000 years ago
It's more than that, though

[Anonymous No.6681641]

>>6681622
>Read Job and City of God you dumb fuck. If you've already read them ask an older boy to explain them to you because you clearly didn't understand them.
I've quoted the part of my original post you didn't respond to and probably didn't read. all of this has been covered in the aforementioned books hundreds of years ago. Please don't apply your human understanding of evil to the omniscient infinity.

[Anonymous No.6681643]

>>6681628

It's not a wish.

It's a spell.

[Anonymous No.6681651]

Edgelords always seem to think that we are living in the logical conclusion of civilization. If you asked God, he might tell you that we're only at the beginning.

You don't know how God's story is going to end, so why are you so assdevastated about His plans? Just live your life the way Christ taught. It is impossible to go wrong that way. It's like Buddhism except phenomenally less self-centered and faggoty.

[Anonymous No.6681656]

>>6681651
/thread

[Anonymous No.6681694]

>>6681641
Is the quote in this thread? If so, can you link to it because I can't find it.

>don't apply your human understanding of evil to the omniscient infinity.

But then, how can you have a conception of sin and virtue? Rely solely on the Scripture? Or the Church?

[Anonymous No.6681697]

>>6680857
> Implying Christianity is a valid Abrahamic faith
> Implying anything in the New Testament beyond the gospels isn't pure heresy

[Anonymous No.6681700]

>>6681643

Okay, let me rephrase that, why would you spell a decade of misery on anyone?

[Anonymous No.6681707]

>>6681694
Sin either hurts you or it hurts somebody else (or both). It's not like Jesus and his disciples made it up for a cheeky bant.

[Anonymous No.6681719]

>>6681694
its >>6681611
Sin and virtue are ethical standards held to human behavior/existence. It doesn't apply to God's nature. The christian faith is primarily a personal religion so you cannot rely on the Church, rather you can base your ethics of the message and themes of the Gospels. Ideally you will come to embody Love and follow His direction.

[Anonymous No.6681727]

>>6681719
Fee Fi Fo Fum, I smell Protestant scum

[Anonymous No.6681731]

>>6680857
Because it would be boring as shit otherwise and Satan is the guy who livens up the party even though he brings the cops every time

[Anonymous No.6681733]

>>6681651
God says we're at the end, and we should be expecting the apocalypse soon™

[Anonymous No.6681738]

>>6681733
Literally nope. All Jesus ever told you is that you will not know the day nor the hour. If you think you do, you sure as shit are wrong.

[Anonymous No.6681762]

>>6681738
Hell of a lazy writing trick tbh.

Sneaky doe.

[Anonymous No.6681765]

>>6681738
>he saith -- who is testifying these things -- `Yes, I come quickly!' Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus!
Revelations 22:20

>Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign.
Matthew 16:28

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=%22i+am+coming+soon%22&qs_version=NIV

[Anonymous No.6681768]

>>6681707

But what about heresy for example? Clearly, from historical (and probably most contemporary) perspectives, it is a sin to adhere to heresy.

Let's say one adheres to heresy on his own, and keeps his beliefs to himself, he's only causing harm to himself on the predicament that the nature of his belief goes somehow against salvation. But, except for that line of reasoning, how does the act of heresy by itself cause hurt? Don't we get circular reasoning, that essentially goes 'it is sin because it is sin'. And you may say that it is sin because it alienates one from God, but is there really room for alienation if we can't apply "human understanding of evil to the omniscient infinity"?

[Anonymous No.6681777]

>>6681765
"Soon" with quotation marks is right.

You should have known better than to take literally someone who operates in orders of eternity.

>>6681768
All heretical belief systems are inherently unfulfilling because they are made up by men. It's not the kind of hurt that you feel in a day, but rather over the course of your lifetime.

[Anonymous No.6681782]

>>6680857
I'm pretty sure Satan was an angel that fucked up

[Anonymous No.6681783]

>>6681777
>You should have known better than to take literally
>>6681738
>Literally nope.
Sort yourself out.

[Anonymous No.6681787]

>>6681777

>made up by men
Made up by men who believe they are in the communion with the divine. How is that rationally different from your mainstream christian standpoint?

[Anonymous No.6681797]

>>6681768
Heresy was persecuted by political parties in organized religion. To claim they were christians in the vein of Jesus would be an error. The Church only fought for christian uniformity after elements of it were corrupted by secular ambitious cabals.

Read Augustine's City of God to learn more about the relation between the secular and the religious.

[Anonymous No.6681820]

>>6681797

Well, historically, the Church (Roman Catholic) played as much ballgame with the 'ambitious political cabals' as any institution. Just look at some of the papal schisms - what else was it about but the strive for codification of secular power?

[Anonymous No.6681825]

God got jelly of Lucifer and turned him into a demon, put him in eternal prison and made him a scapegoat for all the evils of the world

Meanwhile God attention whores and makes people his worship slaves for all eternity

pretty fucked up tbh

[Anonymous No.6681831]

>>6681820
the actions of human individuals do not dispel the dogma of Our Lord.

[Anonymous No.6681838]

>>6680883

[Anonymous No.6681843]

>>6681831

And which dogma would that be?

[Anonymous No.6681847]

>>6681843
Christianity.

[Anonymous No.6681855]

>>6681847

Which Christianity?

Surely you're not implying that all of Christianity is the dogma of Christ.

[Anonymous No.6681862]

>>6681855
There is only one true Christianity which can not be limited to a sect or institution.

[Anonymous No.6681877]

>>6681862
We've got a protestant over here

[Anonymous No.6681879]

>>6681862

But then, aren't all the sects and institutions arbitrary, and at times even malicious? Isn't maybe the Church as an institution of this world flawed, and maybe outrighly dangerous, and isn't then the relationship with Christ the question and only the question of an individual?

[Anonymous No.6681884]

Man created Satan--Hell, too.

Boogiemen for adults.

[Anonymous No.6681889]

>>6681879
It depends on the specifics for each of those but possibly yes.

>>6681877
I wouldn't define myself that way but if you would like to categorize me go ahead. I think I am similar to Peter of Bruys.

[Anonymous No.6681906]

>>6681889

Then how do you distinguish between heresy and the 'true faith'? What is there to grasp on to? Isn't even this distinction arbitrary?

Is not the act of putting faith into Crhist really about putting the faith in Him eventually bestowing the salvific relationship with Himself upon all people, no matter how sinful or ignorant they might seem at this particular time?

[Anonymous No.6681926]

>>6681906
Determining heresy seems to me judging another man's relationship with God. I have no right to declare something Heresy. I think there are 2 principles of Christian Faith. Love and follow God's direction. I try to adhere to them as best I can but it is a personal Jesus I relate to.
>bestowing the salvific relationship with Himself upon all people, no matter how sinful or ignorant they might seem at this particular time?
This aligns with many of his teachings.

I have to go to bed now.

[Anonymous No.6681939]

>>6681582

Every evil Satan brings about intentionally, brings about a justifying good unintentionally.

Sinners who end up in Hell were created for the same reason: because God loves them, and judges it worth allowing their free-willed self-ruin in order to have them be, and because, vile though their sins are, the goods they unintentionally bring about will help perfect the goods this creation was made to realise.

[Anonymous No.6681943]

>>6681651
>like Buddhism except phenomenally less self-centered

lol do you know anything at all about Buddhism

[Anonymous No.6681977]

>>6681939

That's all very nice, but still if you're willing to accept that view, it leaves immense number of conscious beings to experience suffering for eternity. So it's the salvation of few offset by the suffering of many, all perpertrated by the love of God, huh?

And what free will really is there? I assume that according to your view, some people can be saved by experiencing God directly. To give an example, you have a sinner who is lucky enough to experience Christ and repent (and therefore save his soul) and another sinner, who is not so lucky and ends up in hell for eternity. How did God decide which of these people do experience the Christ directly and which do not? And what free will is there, when your salvation depends by extended reasoning on the random whim of God?

[Anonymous No.6682009]

If God exists and is truly perfect, he must have the power of reason.
Humans are endowed with the gift of reason, perhaps by God.
If God wants us to act in a certain way, why does He not merely explain why rather than telling humans a bunch of vague anecdotes and expecting us to care? Why would God not appeal to our shared power of reason?
>b-but His plan is unknowable by mortals
Why did He not create a species that could understand, instead of billions of deaf-mute pawns?

[Anonymous No.6682013]

>be God
>create universe where every living thing is engaged in a perpetual struggle for resources
>muh free will

[Anonymous No.6682018]

>>6680857
there's a ton of answers, depending on who you ask, cuz religion is kind of a clusterfuck

i think the jews saw satan more as a prosecutor to test you instead of an actual, evil being

[Anonymous No.6682029]

>>6680964
>>6681595
>>6681884
>>6682009
>>6682013
CHRISTFAGS BTFO
>inv4 some pleb will probably respond to this with muh Book of Job and muh tests

[Anonymous No.6682032]

>>6682029
Why do atheists subscribe to christian morality but reject Christian God?

[Anonymous No.6682047]

>>6682032
why do some?

probably it's just convenient

do u even feuerbach

[Anonymous No.6682054]

>>6681630
>why is it much easier to believe in God, rather than Satan

My guess is personal wish fulfillment. I imagine philosophy majors in college roll their eyes at stories of 8 dollars an hour at Starbucks and debts becoming due, yet listen quite attentively to stories of people becoming consulted and even renowned thinkers.

I'm not sure why you think the idea of God and Heaven has so much more credence than the Devil and Hell. They are both fabrications of which you can actually chart the idea's evolution and vague origins--neither of which are actually even represented in the Old Testament.

It's like Christians who claim loudly that the Mormons believe some zany shit. Yeah, the Mormons do, but virgin David Copperfield is totally normal and not weird. Right.

[Anonymous No.6682061]

>>6680857
He create Lucifer and he created free will, Lucifer chose his fate.
>>6680893
Ignorance.
>>6680964
>>6681595
>>6682029
Once again, don't project your teenage utopian morality onto a perfect, absolute, transcendental being, because you are literally objectively wrong.

[Anonymous No.6682086]

>>6682032
Perhaps in recognizing that god, having created such misery for human souls, while not permitting humans in his law to inflicting suffering on other souls atheists recognize the hypocrisy of god with which they stop belief in it, because it is also supposedly perfect, for surely a hypocrite is not perfect.

[Anonymous No.6682093]

>>6682061

>throwing around empty ad hominem
Boy, what a great way to prove your point!

[Anonymous No.6682096]

>>6682032

[Anonymous No.6682097]

>>6682086
See: >>6682061
>>6682093
I don't think you know what ad hominem is.

[Anonymous No.6682106]

>>6682097

>teenage utopian morality
>doesn't give any arguments
How is this not an ad hominem?

[Anonymous No.6682109]

>>6682061
I would have probably posted this about 10 years ago. Word-for-word.

[Anonymous No.6682110]

>>6682097

>We have to thank god for our lives, food, praise the lord etc
>count our blessings every day
>god lets clifford olsen murder and rape a dozen kids
>Oh god's morality is just different and we can't know it!

Very convenient.

[Anonymous No.6682112]

>>6682061
lel wondering why we live in a universe with the potentiality for such horrific suffering is just teenage edginess now. never go full retard

[Anonymous No.6682115]

>>6682106
>>6682109
>>6682110
>>6682112
>I'm above a perfect being!
>A perfect being must answer to MY feelings!

[Anonymous No.6682122]

>>6682115
i dont think a perfect being needs u defending him on a malaysian image board

if you cant empathize with suffering ur a pretty shit christian hth

[Anonymous No.6682127]

>>6682122
>ur bad becuz i said so

[Anonymous No.6682128]

Why is being a utopian a bad thing?

[Anonymous No.6682130]

>>6682115

A perfect being wouldn't let olsen and men like him run about raping kids. There is no conceivable morality in heaven or earth where that is alright.

But that's all academic because god doesn't exist. It's just a myth.

[Anonymous No.6682136]

>>6682130
A perfect being would create whatever they want. Faggot.
Westboro is right. God hates you.

[Anonymous No.6682137]

>>6682127
The Bible preaches empathy

[Anonymous No.6682142]

>>6682130
>god must do this because of my feelings!
>>6682137
And?

[Anonymous No.6682144]

>>6682137
Bible is a book.

[Anonymous No.6682151]

>>6682136
then he wouldn't be a perfect being because he would not morally perfect.

holy shit how fucking thick are you blokes

[Anonymous No.6682153]

>>6682136

I think you're confusing omnipotence with perfection fagatron

[Anonymous No.6682155]

>>6682112
>>6682112
im so high right know, that i understand you

why dont we kill the nestle ceo, or jp morgan or google or whatever, just to be confident

[Anonymous No.6682161]

>>6682142

So you wouldn't feel bad if your kid got raped? You would be like, "oh jeez, I guess god works in mysterious ways"

[Anonymous No.6682162]

>>6682151
>HE DOESNT DO EVERYTHING I WANT HES EVIL IM PERFECT

[Anonymous No.6682167]

>>6682161
Why are you reverting to such petty arguments?

[Anonymous No.6682169]

>>6682151
Maybe morality is bullshit.

>>6682153
Not really. A perfect being would do whatever it wants to do. It doesn't have to be omnipotent. Are you retarded or just can't read?

[Anonymous No.6682171]

>>6682162
stop posting at strawmen in ur head faggot.

[Anonymous No.6682172]

>>6682167
thats obvious
in a model you put things in a bigger relation to understand them easier

[Anonymous No.6682174]

>>6682169
you're fucking retarded if you think anyone here is talking about whether or not a perfect being can do what it wants to do.

we're talking about the supposedly loving christian god.

[Anonymous No.6682176]

Stop being 12 y/o guys. I would kill and rape if there were no concequences. Nobody would stop me. If God exists he loves what he did here. Everything is good. Even our pain. He loves our suffering. He is perfect. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Anonymous No.6682180]

>>6682174
God loves everything he does.

[Anonymous No.6682181]

>>6682171
Said the one making a myriad of logical fallacies, including strawman.

Listen here, you are arguing that your feelings are above a perfect deity.
If God says the acts in 120 Days of Sodom are moral, then they're moral you damn idiot.
Why? Because God is absolute, perfect, and transcendental, he defines what is good and evil.

You are objectively wrong.

[Anonymous No.6682182]

Can these threads stop? Please?

[Anonymous No.6682183]

If you're Christian you simply have to accept that at least one, and probably almost all, conscious beings were created to live for a short time and then suffer eternal torment, and that their suffering leads to a greater good than otherwise. Since God is omniscient, and is the first cause of everything, your decisions only appear free to you, but in reality are completely predetermined - you have only the "free will experience".

Fortunately, as Christians, we are among the elect.

[Anonymous No.6682191]

>>6682181

Stockholm syndrome, much?

[Anonymous No.6682197]

>>6682191
No, it's called not being a child by claiming you are above an absolute being.

[Anonymous No.6682199]

>>6682181
>if God says 120 days of sodom are moral, then they're moral
>120 days of sodom
>120 days of sodom

[Anonymous No.6682209]

>>6682181
>>6682197

You can't prove god exists let alone prove he's an absolute being.

You christians are out of your minds.

[Anonymous No.6682215]

>>6682197

So if God commanded you to commit suicide, you would go and buy the first good piece of rope you could find?

[Anonymous No.6682227]

>>6682197

Okay, so trying to make sense of the world without resulting to void irrationality is in your opinion childishness? In that case yes, I'm being a child and I hope I will be as long as it takes.

Have your God who is somehow absolute, unknowable, beyond morals and who benedicts suffering, and yet somehow loves you.

[Anonymous No.6682237]

>>6682227
He doesn't love me. Do you even know what Westboro is about? Damn. God hates everyone.

[Anonymous No.6682248]

>>6682237

Why does anyone need to praise him then? The only rational thing would be to start an all out war against such an entity

[Anonymous No.6682272]

>>6682248
Why?

[Anonymous No.6682285]

>>6682272

Why not? He hates me and wants to destroy me, I'm just standing up for myself

[Anonymous No.6682290]

>>6682285
Go ahead. I don't care.

[Anonymous No.6682294]

>>6680883
this is not a satisfactory answer. The bible is very explicit in Satan's existence as an actual character and cause (the serpent, the rebel) - the question in the OP stands.

[Anonymous No.6682308]

>>6680857
Someone has to do the dirty work. I want to see suffering but I don't want to be blamed for it. So I made this guy be the one responsible for it. "You deserve to be punished."

[Anonymous No.6682389]

>>6680857
Because to for there to be good distinct from God's overwhelming presence there *has* to be evil. I know it's a cliche but it's true. Satan is the manifestation of this principle.

[Anonymous No.6682441]

>>6682389
>Create Evil just so you've got something to be preferable to

Damn man, why is God such a needy beta?

[Anonymous No.6682453]

>>6680857
Satan represents the unbeliever, someone for whom faith alone is insufficient to believe in God or Jesus as his son.
That's why Satan taunts Jesus and asks him to throw himself down from the temple, for proof of his divinity.
Jesus refuses, implying that there is no proof and you just need to do without it.

Pretty simple, really.

[Anonymous No.6682467]

>>6682453
Satan is a very reasonable guy.

[Anonymous No.6682471]

>>6682467
ya

[Anonymous No.6682482]

>>6681630
Judaism.

Alternately, gnosticism, depending on your interpretation. VERY much depending on your interpretation.

[Anonymous No.6682528]

>>6681977

It's the existence of all, which is perpetrated by the love of God. God loves everyone for their own sake, even the damned.

Damnation, the Second Death, is what God allows us to do to ourselves, out of love for the kind of thing we are: it is the natural outcome of a human life lived apart from the love of God, the exact worth of our finite achievements as weighed against a never-ending existence. That good which we derive directly from God, and which we cannot by our own power extinguish, i.e., our everlasting existence as rational beings, God unfailingly maintains, even for the damned. If there is anything that mitigates the horror of damnation, it would be this: that despite the very worst man can do to himself, God's love and grace remains to him.

> assume that according to your view, some people can be saved by experiencing God directly.

Depends what you mean by "directly." Few are saved, in my opinion, by intrinsically supernatural means. Even what most people call their private supernatural experience is not supernatural in the strict sense, as beyond the power of natural things to produce.

But God works through the natural, as is his habit, to bring people to himself by all kinds of means. He redeems by means of contact with his church, by means of the ordinary witness of individuals, by means of innumerable non-discursive factors, and ultimately by means of the freedom his power enables. Even reason plays its role- though from experience I think few enough people are free from moral evil or possess a strong enough intellect to arrive at faith purely by this route. Undergirding this natural witness, of course, is supernatural activity- the renewing work of the Holy Spirit.

Those who do benefit from the grace God has given us, God has decided to redeem out of his undeserved love, and for no other reason. For those who do not benefit from grace, do not benefit because they have lived lives out of right relation with God- God couldn't decide to save the unwilling if he wanted. There are none willing whom he has not given the means sufficient for salvation. The question in the case of the unwilling is why God creates the unwilling, and it seems to me that in this is amply answered by the fact that, for all their flaws, he loves them anyway.

[Anonymous No.6682536]

it doesn't matter why. what matters is that the existence of satan and sin directly plays into god's plan. and surely god, who knows all the events, knows that satan would be defeated. the way god exists is in a state where satan has been defeated and doesn't exist. this 'paradox' is slowly being worked out in our temporal human world. it's still a part of the development of the kingdom of heaven, not a past event. the new testament story and the biography of jesus is ongoing

[Anonymous No.6682669]

>>6682161
Fucking kek'd so loud at this for some reason

[Anonymous No.6682681]

Satan, like all angels, also have free will. This should be obvious.

[Anonymous No.6682687]

>>6682389
>God's omnipotence doesn't allow him to remove evil and be all loving

[Anonymous No.6682693]

>>6682681
>Satan, like all angels, also have free will. This should be obvious.
God is omnipotent and not bound by time. This should be obvious.

[Anonymous No.6682694]

>>6680857

If God is indeed God and he can indeed see the future, then why are you implying that the creation of Satan was a bad thing or a mistake?

If he is indeed God then he is the creator of all things, and so must necessarily have created both good and evil.

If he can see the future, and yet has created Satan, then obviously he knew the outcome, and so Satan likely fills a necessary purpose neither you or I are aware of.

[Anonymous No.6682695]

>>6682693
That is obvious and irrelevant. What are you getting at?

[Anonymous No.6682716]

>>6682695
That an angel having this so-called free will doesn't prevent God from knowing it's 'future' actions.

[Anonymous No.6682726]

>>6682716
Totally, but the same can be said of humanity. What's the issue here?
The capacity for sin is a necessary evil to allow the good to exist. Otherwise, love is mechanical and not love at all.

[Anonymous No.6682736]

>>6680857
>Why would God create Satan?

Out of boredom. Sin is the only interesting and entertaining thing about our miserable species. God would be bored to tears if everyone was a good little Christian and obeyed the bible, so he invented evil, and poverty, and cruelty, and hate, as a means of personal entertainment. Personally, I think he has a strong sadistic streak, and was probably masturbating furiously to Auschwitz, the Khmer Rouge, The Rwandan Genocide, etc...

[Anonymous No.6682741]

>>6682736
>all powerful god can't remove boredom without resorting to psychopathy

[Anonymous No.6682743]

>>6682736
>Out of boredom.
Impossible as God is perfect and thus by virtue of that has no needs

[Anonymous No.6682755]

>>6682741
He's not that powerful. It took him a week to make everything. An all powerful God could have created everything instantly.

And he is bored. He is eternal and infinite, but still has to be some form of aware consciousness. He existed for an infinite amount of time before creating our universe. Why would he have bothered at all if he wasn't bored? He then created a perfect Eden, but mysteriously placed a forbidden tree and allowed Satan in as a talking snake, and let everything bad and evil to snowball down from there. He's just bored with his 'life' and wants an end to it. He sent himself/his son down as a test run and we successfully killed him, and he knows that in another few million years we will be advanced enough to actually kill God.

He could have created the perfect good without evil, but that would have been a boring feedback cycle. Our misery and suffering; the rapes, genocides, tortures, and poverty are all brief interim entertainment for him until we can evolve enough to slay him.

[Anonymous No.6682913]

>>6682755

>An all powerful God could have created everything instantly.
Why would he, though? God wants things to exist not only as means to an end, but an end in itself. Why does an eternal being need to be in any rush to get anywhere?

>Why would he have bothered at all if he wasn't bored?

Just because you only act from boredom and necessity, doesn't mean God does. God is prior to all other being, hence in himself is free from everything else. So, he cannot be compelled by necessity.

God also acts from pure altruistic love. Since he has no needs or wants in himself, the only wants he could will to fulfil are those of his creatures.

>we will be advanced enough to actually kill God

Someone's been playing too much vidya.

[Anonymous No.6682969]

Pistis ain't shit but hoes and tricks,
get on them knees and suck that dick

[Anonymous No.6682996]

>>6680857
I really like that chair design, op

I think it takes a higher understanding to realize why evil is. I like neo-platonic philosophy.

[Anonymous No.6683008]

>>6680857
the universe is deterministic; god knows everything but he can't do anything to prevent it. he had to create satan and then banish him and then pretend free will is a thing

[Anonymous No.6683741]

>>6682097
>teenage utopian morality
So first my morality is Christian, and now my morality is teenage utopian? Do you realize what you just called yourself?

[Anonymous No.6683744]

>>6682115
Actually it must. That's what perfection means.

[Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo No.6683746]

>>6682294
>The bible is very explicit in Satan's existence as an actual character and cause (the serpent, the rebel
nigga which bible u been reading? dante and milton aint no bible hahaha

[Anonymous No.6683755]

>>6683744
No it isn't. Humanity can't comprehend the omniscient

[Anonymous No.6683863]

>>6680857
Point out where satan is in the bible and I'll answer your question

[Anonymous No.6683895]

>>6683755
Oh shut the fuck up, that's such a cop out and you know it.
>People are pointin out logical inconsistencies in my religion.
>"HOW DARE YOU QUESTION AN OMNISCIENT GOD, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?"

[Anonymous No.6683923]

>>6681425
the bible

[Anonymous No.6683937]

>>6681425

[Anonymous No.6683958]

the bible isn't written by one person. it's different concepts that are somewhat alike but not consistent. even in the pentateuch there's big differences in what god "is", what he wants, how man was created etc

[Anonymous No.6683971]

First, you have to realize the difference between God and The Lord/Yahweh
And also the nature of Heaven

In Job, Satan asks, I think, The Lord to take all that Job has in his hand and consume it. The Lord says ok, and Satan takes all Job has in his hand
>satan asks the lord to do a bad thing
>lord agrees and satan does it

So Satan is the 'bad' side of The Lord
When you realize that Heaven is the mental plane, it puts it more into context

[Anonymous No.6683977]

>>6680857
Satan is a representative of the absolute freedom of the will. He could have chosen to obey God, but he didn't.

Now, you might say that, since God knows the future, this means he allows people to ruin their lives and their eternities.

You would be right! That's the cruel razor edge of free will. Even when God knows you're going to end up miserable, he's still going to let you make your choices. This is, in fact, an expression of his love. Contrary to Hitchens' polemics, God isn't a tyrant. Free will is freedom to fall into evil. God knows what you're going to do, but lets you do it anyway.

Jesus even talks about this in all his parables where he throws people out into the darkness. Not everybody gets to be saved, yo.

[Anonymous No.6683981]

>>6682128
has no basis in material analysis

[Anonymous No.6683984]

>>6683958
What is are the differences in the Torah

[Anonymous No.6683990]

>>6683977
God, moreso even than Satan, is an absolute expression of free will

And He is a tyrant (see Babel)
Think about it

[Anonymous No.6683996]

>>6682294
People like you should be fucking crucified. I didn't say Satan wasn't "an actual character", and the little degradation of your sentence after that, "and cause (the serpent, the rebel)" has no connection to anything, nor does it even mean anything. And the nature of the bible and its construction/editing over time precludes it from being "explicit" about anything. Certainly not about whether the "Satan" of Job was the serpent of Genesis.

[Anonymous No.6684016]

>>6683984
god is in some places anthropomorphised, in others he's shown as 'intangible' something that can't be seen or clearly conceptualised.

there's two versions of the creation story, one in which man and woman are created at the same time, the other in which it's man -> animals -> woman (from man)

there's lots more. i recommend the oxford annotated bible, see pic related. you can find the pdf somewhere online, i used to have it, but i can't find it, the lib.gen.rus mirror is offline