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/lit/ - Literature

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6676376 No.6676376 [Reply] [Original]

Sometimes, manga is more literary than literature. Vagabond, by Takehiko Inoue, is easily one of the most important literary works of the 21st century thus far.

>> No.6676387
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6676387

>>6676376
That is not Berserk.

>> No.6676390

>>6676376
Yeah, I'm not sure about that.
Perhaps something was lost in translation, but the endless philosophical ruminations about being one with the blade and stuff seem very shallow to me.
Still, I like it a lot. It's beautifully drawn.

>> No.6676400

>>6676390
>That euro-centralism
Right, it's very shallow unless it's endless philosophical ruminations about being one with the phallus. THAN it's deep and insightful.

>> No.6676402

>>6676376
I started reading it, it's obviously not even on par with Vinland Saga philosophically, not to mention Shigurui, Berserk, Palepoli, I am a hero, Punpun, Sidonia no Kishi etc.

>> No.6676404

>>6676376

>one of the most important literary works of the 21st century

Why is that?

>> No.6676410

>>6676404
because it's badazz

>> No.6676412

>>6676404
He said so. Clearly that should be enough for you

>> No.6676415
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6676415

>>6676400
the blade and the phallus are the same :^)

>> No.6676418

>>6676376
that guy is a ridiculous fucking mangaka, same with berserk

>> No.6676419

>>6676376
I hate le manga : ^ ) LMAO

>> No.6676426

>>6676376
>one of the most important literary works of the 21st century thus far.
>not urasawa
my man come on

>> No.6676515

>>6676402
None of those are even slightly philosophic.

>> No.6676520

>>6676426
Urasawa consistently writes himself into a corner and then ends the story without offering any explanation for what happened. He's overrated shit.

>> No.6676541

>>6676515
>he didn't notice neatly woven tides of causality in berserk

>he didn't ruminate on nature of violence in shigurui

>he didn't observe gender taking backseat in what looks like a harem manga (sidonia)

>he didn't appreciate the surrealistic horror of palepoli mixed with suburban claustrophobia

>he didn't notice identity crisis of I am a hero

>he is unaware of Punpun's approach to greek tragedy

>names generic samurai manga

>> No.6676546

>>6676520
you would never say this about anyone in the western canon.

>> No.6676553

punpun and i am a here are hipster trash.

>> No.6676592

>>6676390
That's on purpose. Musashi and some other characters are obsessed with being "strong" and keep thinking about how to get stronger, and experience and spread suffering because of it. When they concentrate on the sword they become stifled, caught up in their own anger and fears. Only when they let go of the idea of "strong" and "the sword" etc. do they begin to take in the nature of themselves and everything around them, and experience peace without lust for bloodshed or glory. It's told exclusively from the perspective of the characters, who slowly learn from their experiences, one arc at a time. It still hasn't reached any kind of philosophical or personal conclusion for any of the characters, Takuan excluded, but he's the wise mentor figure.
>>6676546
"Lost" isn't part of any western canon.

>> No.6676833

>>6676376
Isn't Vagabond just a manga adaptation of the Musashi novel though? But thanks for reminding me, I still need to catch up. I stopped like chapter 260.

>>6676387
Also this and Guin Saga.

>> No.6676842

>>6676833
>134 volumes
jesus fuck

>> No.6676844

>>6676553
I am a hero is pulp retard

> tried s handful of manga but disappointed coz it wasn't wat he was looking for


Read more fagt

>> No.6676883

>>6676541
Curious about relationship between punpun and Greek tragedy. Care to explain that a bit?

>> No.6676897

>>6676883
punpun represents a muse
the audience is the theatre
theatre is also mute
tragedy therefore unfolds in a bookish instead of 'actual' sense
the reader is performing the play in the role of an actor with the muse (character) to guide him
the beauty is that it subverts kawaii into pathos.

>> No.6676918
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6676918

>plebs not reading the classics

>> No.6676941
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6676941

I think this is the manga you meant to post.

>> No.6676960

>>6676541
And what about Vinland Saga?

>> No.6676981

>>6676941
anyone know where I can read this?

>> No.6676992

So what mangos are worth reading?

>> No.6677515

>>6676992
i'd love a list of /lit/ manga too

>> No.6677754

>>6677515
There is one floating around. The only important one is Blame!.

>> No.6677800

>>6677754
that reminded me of that other one that recently got adapted into a hollywood movie.
obviously they butchered it, but apparently it wasn't _that_ bad.

>> No.6677813

>>6676918

>> No.6677821

>>6676400
worthless rhetoric

>> No.6677985
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6677985

Taiyoposting, as always.

>> No.6677988

>>6677985
Great taste, i fucking love his art style too

>> No.6677991
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6677991

>>6677988
I'm waiting my uniqlo x Taiyo tees, I'm impatient as hell.

>> No.6678005

>>6677991
holy shit, didn't know he was that popular.
maybe i should get some myself

>> No.6678198

>>6676376
No it's not, it's a different medium altogether with its own criterion for critical evaluation. In your misguided ignorance do you mean to tell me that textually (the only means by which literature is evaluated, since for some fucking reason you brought it up in the first place) the best manga can even come close to being compared with the best literary works?

>> No.6678232

Lone Wolf and Cub is great.
A Brides Story is pretty good as well, the art is stunning.

>> No.6678261

>>6676553
punpun is losercore
you wouldn't understand

>> No.6678271 [SPOILER] 
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6678271

There are some OK ones that have been mentioned in the thread (Punpun and Vagabond) and there is a lot of potential but a lot of the "good ones" (NHK for example) are just able to get an interesting art style together with one or a few interesting characters doing something. Good drama and art but that is it.

Then again I haven't read that much manga, but nearly all of what I have read is just so cookie-cutter.

>> No.6678356

>>6676541
Shigurui anime NEEDS a second season. Mushishi got one, so why not this?

>> No.6678363

>>6676520
I don't remember that happening in Monster or 20th Century Boys, but I really have to wonder what he's going to do with Billy Bat.

He just writes Stephen King-tier thrillers though, yeah.

>> No.6678367

>>6676918
THis pretty much.

>>6676941
Also looks interesting

>> No.6678438

>>6676960
vinland saga is about gandhi's son going to byzantium, perhaps it will make a parallel between europe and islam at its doors.

>> No.6678448

>>6676541
Ah Palepoli is from the author of Short Cuts. Might be itneresting

>> No.6678516

>>6678356
didn't watch the anime but the 'abrupt' end of manga suited me fine. that was sort of the point with all the long inner monologue and short action after that.

>> No.6678525

>>6678516
Yeah but the anime only covers about half the manga. It's AMAZING btw, you should watch it

>> No.6678532

>>6678525
might get around to it, heard it's good

>> No.6678537

>>6678532
The director, Hiroshi Hamasaki, is one of the most underrated in anime

>> No.6678541

>>6678525
It covers all of it... Just sped it up at the end. Minus that unrelated to the plot frog character.

>> No.6678574

>>6676941
I actually didn't like it that much. The experimental side could had been used much more interestingly and the character's aren't much different from what a wanna be artist in most countries and times would go through without being about absolutes like that. It felt a bit self centered when it didn't have much to tell about itself.

>>6676981
there's a torrent

>> No.6678581

>>6678541
No? It ends around the start of chapter 33, which is less than half the manga.

>> No.6678582

>>6678537
oh, he did texhnolyze, been watching it these days, pretty slow paced but solid overall.

>> No.6678617
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6678617

>>6676376
>I believe Manga has genuine literary value

>> No.6678618

>>6676376
redditcore bait, please gtfo
got me to respond/10000

>> No.6678655

>>6676376
No, it's not. Importance for a literary work implies critical academic study and influence on other important authors. Takehiko Inoue's main legacy is making basketball more popular in Japan. It's had absolutely no notice from the literary world and never will.

>> No.6678662

>>6676376
>Sometimes, manga is more literary than literature

sometimes literature is more mango than manga

>> No.6678676

I wouldn't say it is 'highly literary' but it's genre fiction is at a much higher standard.

>> No.6678688

>>6678676
What genre would that be? The introspective semi-historical philosophical Zen Buddhism-inspired genre?

>> No.6678700

>>6678363
>20th Century Boys
You realize the story continues in 21th Century Boys? And Monster ends without any sort of conclusion, some minor side-character kills Johann and nothing makes any fucking sense.

>> No.6678707

>>6678688
Yes.

>> No.6678715

>>6677754
Blame! is great, but there are better. Ashita no Joe is my favourite, it's an amazing story of an orphan delinquent and the people he becomes entangled with trying to find a place to belong where there's a future for them.

>> No.6678765

>>6678662
tropical literature mostly.

>> No.6678787

>>6678700
>You realize the story continues in 21th Century Boys?
Yes, and everything is explained and makes sense.

>And Monster ends without any sort of conclusion, some minor side-character kills Johann and nothing makes any fucking sense.
He literally wasn't even killed. Dr. Tenma saves his life, and you even see him alive later. There's nothing that doesn't make sense about the ending.

>> No.6678822

>>6678787
In what fucking way does the 2nd Friend make any sense? And how exactly does Johann's motivation or whatever you want to call it add up to anything?

>> No.6678951

>>6676541
>can name one basic literary device
>therefore weeb shit>real literature
oh lord I hate young people

>> No.6678957

Barefoot Gen anyone?

>> No.6679046

>>6678951
You misunderstand. The guy he replied to, namely me, didn't make the argument you are making, nor did the anon you're replying to make the argument you claim he made. What do you mean by "real literature", by the way? I've never read or heard about any commonly held definition of the term, other than "literature I like".

>> No.6679059

>>6679046
yes, he did, but it doesn't matter
also
>waaaaaah definining what is literary is not easy
deal with it

>> No.6679125

>>6678822
The second friend is revealed in the last chapter to be another one of Kenji's friends from elementary school, Katsumata, who is impersonating Fukubei and whose goal is to destroy the world. Katsumata shows up in a couple flashbacks early in the story; you might remember him as someone the other kids pretend killed and then pretended was dead.

And Johann's ultimate goal was to destroy all evidence of his existence and then kill himself as a kind of "perfect suicide"; otherwise he's jsut a psychopath.

>> No.6679126

>>6679046
not that anon, but
>What do you mean by "real literature"
that would be narrative presented in one word after the other, unlike that fake literature that uses images or music instead of words.