/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6628177]

>tfw /lit/ is no longer the creative outlet it once used to be, instead now it's just a place where fedora tippers can congregate to use and recycle various memes and hacks

[Anonymous No.6628186]

>tfw everyone here is a fedora-tipping shitlord who cries when he hears the word feminism or the word gamergate

[Anonymous No.6628202]

>tfw there are memes on 4chan

[Anonymous No.6628224]

>>6628186
isn't gamergate about some girl who bribed reviewers or something?

i never understood how it happened, or why people get angry, or why feminists get angry over it. is it just because shes a girl?

[Anonymous No.6628237]

>>6628224
>isn't gamergate about some girl who bribed reviewers or something?
So they claim.
>i never understood how it happened, or why people get angry, or why feminists get angry over it. is it just because shes a girl?
People get angry because a lot of peoe on the internet are legitimately too immature for feminism and the video game industry actually does treat its customers with absolutely no respect. It was mostly the former, but gamers are sheep who enjoy being consumers so they identified thereas and decided that they'd tweet about it hike they vented their anger over their inability to get laid.

[Anonymous No.6628242]

>>6628237
>too immature for feminism
Imagine if men who don't read Harlequin romance lit started to complain about the lack of dinosaurs and pirates. Imagine if they pretended that they didn't want to destroy women's cosy space, but wanted to help them.

Imagined that? Good, that's how "nerd culture" has been treated for the last decade.

[Anonymous No.6628249]

>>6628242
Nerd culture is cis white male culture. It needs to become more diverse or cease to exist.

[Anonymous No.6628255]

>>6628224
Some guys accused a female reporter of sleeping with a guy who worked in the gaming industry or something. Feminists claimed that they only accused her of it because she's a woman and gamers claimed sexism had nothing to do with it and that it was really about ethics in journalism.

[Anonymous No.6628261]

>>6628242
So what? You're incapablebof empathizing with women. Why should I bother to empathize with a pathetic subculture that doesn't make any sound arguments?

[Anonymous No.6628262]

>>6628237
Pretty much this. It's pretty much the dumbest thing to happen for a long time

>>6628242
Here's the problem with that logic: Outside of a few ghettos, like Romance, culture and pop-culture are both overwhelmingly male, and in the West, white spaces. So more women and minorities in vidya is actually important since the media a person consumes is very important in the formation of how that person perceives the world. So a culture that only focuses on white men causes folks to see white men as the true default and the only possible complex individuals. This creates a culture that is more and more hostile to women and minorities accomplishing anything of note, since a media that only portrays women as pedestalized objects and minorities as stereotyped cardboard cutouts causes people to assume that these folks in real life are just as they are portrayed. To put it in /lit/ meme terms, ideology begets more ideology

[Anonymous No.6628284]

>>6628242
This would be a good analogy if a) no women played videogames, b) women were asking for more unicorns and fairies in videogames rather than more women/ realistic women c) harlequin romance was an entire medium not a genre.

[Anonymous No.6628293]

>>6628242
imagine if you could actually come up with a decent analogy

[Anonymous No.6628342]

>>6628249
>needs
That horrible little word known from your local clickbait.

>>6628261
>empathizing
I'ts because I *respect* them

>>6628262
>and in the West, white spaces
So, the western world is mostly white.

>>6628284
Wrong, wrong and wrong.

A) Do they play the same games? (And please don't give me that botching the books-bs by claiming that Candy Crushers are 1337-GAMURZ.)

B) Check this out. An unrealistic man. Because women is the audience. And when all else fails, you can always count the wrongs and disregards the rights.

C) To be exact, Harlequin novels are novels published by the Harlequin Enterprises Ltd, now a division of HarperCollins Publishers LLC.

With that said, what kinds of games are the feminists complaning about. Flight simulators? Farming simulators? Business simulators? Submarine simulators that demands three weeks of autism to sink a single freighter? No, they are complaining about men's video game equivalent to romance novels for women. Cheap shots at big targets such as Halo, Call of Duty, Mass Effect and so on.

[Anonymous No.6628346]

>>6628342
You don't respect them, you think they're idiots who need to have the content of their actions explained to them because they don't understand it.

[Anonymous No.6628347]

>>6628293
Imagine if you started your sentences with a capital letter and ended them with correct punctuation. You would've passed for a mature person.

[Anonymous No.6628351]

>>6628346
I respect women who read books intended for women by not trying to save them from themselves.. I know that they are adults responsible for their own actions.

[Anonymous No.6628354]

>>6628351
:-/

[Anonymous No.6628358]

>>6628354
So a lots of women are reading books that neither you nor I are reading. I'm cool with that, but you are obviously despising them.

[Anonymous No.6628363]

>>6628358
I genuinely don't understand your reasoning. Could you present it in a valid logical form?

[Anonymous No.6628378]

>>6628363
>hurr durr I am a lazy faggot
Ok, entering retard mode.

I am not reading Harlequin novels.

You are not reading Harlequin novels.

We are not reading Harlequin novels.

A lot of women are reading Harlequin novels.

Not all women are reading Harlequin novels.

I am cool with a lot of women reading Harlequin novels.

I am not disturbing the women reading Harlequin novels.

The women reading Harlequin novels are not disturbing me.

I and the women reading Harlequin novels are not disturbing each other.

You are not cool with a lot of women reading Harlequin novels.

You are not cool with a lot of dudebros calling each other fag while playing Halo.

You can not disturb the women reading Harlequin novels, because you do not know where to start.

You can disturb the dudebros playing Halo, because it is so easy to start.

Exiting retard mode.

[Anonymous No.6628446]

>>6628378
But feminism doesn't care about whether or not it disturbs people who read certain kinds of books. It cares about giving women equal opportunities in industries. It makes other arguments, butthegre less important, and rejecting feminism because you think it disturbs an established social order is kind of stupid.

[Anonymous No.6628459]

>>6628446
>rejecting feminism because you think it disturbs an established social order is kind of stupid
This.

[Anonymous No.6628462]

>>6628446

Accepting that women have a right to read what they want doesn't = a rejection of feminism.

[Anonymous No.6628503]

>>6628237
if thats what they claim, wouldnt that put them in the same position as Feminism? Having radicals that keep posting reactionary, hateful things?

I don't understand how people can try and tell other people how they should write their games. or worse, harassing people when they don't bend to the backseat writers will. If you don't like it, then just don't buy it. Its creative content, and critique if you want, but saying it shouldn't exist or should be banned or changed is just absurd. A solution would be to make your own game, make it good, and push whatever agenda you want in it.

All this has done is provided larger corporations an incentive to pander, not necessarily change anything. These anti's are falling victim to marketing. Even that Anita girl gave terribly shallow reviews of the games she raise an immense amount of money to play and critique. I would be angry should I had donated. A lot of them look like she maybe read half the wiki page and watched the trailer. I was hoping for insight and received nothing

[Anonymous No.6628528]

>>6628446
they have no obligation to cater to you. You do not equal their mainstream market. So they will not risk tons of money selling to people, who are likely a handful of people. They would go out of business. You have no real right to tell them how to do what theyre doing. you aren't forced to buy it or even look at it.

Not to mention theres a seemingly endless list of strong, well written female characters, yet all that gets critiqued are AAA blockbusters akin to a Michael Bay film in quality and narrative. Should the tables be turned, its not criticized for portraying men as expendable(constantly dying), because theyre creative works, and getting upset that a video game didnt pander to you, is like getting upset that twilight didnt have your favorite anime character as the main character. Its not up to you, I don't know how you can even begin to believe you should control somebody's creativity

[Anonymous No.6628537]

>>6628177
and don't you fucking forget it

[Anonymous No.6628560]

>>6628462
I'm arguing against people who reject feminism.
>>6628528
I'm a cisgendered white male with disposable income and a lot of free time. I'm exactly their market. I think GamerGate has been idiotic from the beginning. Both sides only make themselves look worse by participating at all. It's a sideshow that internet celebrities have used to make money and gain influence and not much more. If the video game industry collapsed tomorrow the world would be a better place than it would be if either side of the controversy got its way.

[Anonymous No.6628562]

>>6628262
>white men culture
Top recent blockbuster books
50 shades
Hunger Games
Twilight

[Anonymous No.6628592]

>>6628562
>lists three books that have sold well because of marketing and the memes.
Wew lads, glad to see that we don't live in a white and male dominated society where these are the exceptions and not the general rule. I guess that we feminists should just pack up and go home, because Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey and the Hunger Games alone are symptomatic of feminism winning all the things. I'm so glad that there is perfect equality in opportunity for the genders now and our media no reflects the fact that women are half of the population, on both the creative and consumption sides. We did it!

[Anonymous No.6628597]

>>6628562
Yeah, that's what feminists mean

[Anonymous No.6628604]

>>6628560
No you aren't. Their market is people who like video games, and will buy it. Statistics show, its normally a white teenager/20something in the middle class. This is happenstance and an example of correlation=/=causation.

From what I can tell, GamerGate was just an attempt to bring media attention to a scandal of bribery. The attacks against it are normally
>its a lot of white people in gamergate
>its against someone who happens to be a woman(correlation=/=causation)
>some followers aren't feminist(unrelated to gamergate)

This isn't supposed to be a feminist issue. It was literally just speaking out against corruption. How do you defend someone who slept with judge to get a good score on something?

>Cisgendered white male
this alone is an example of segregation. division for what purpose.

[Anonymous No.6628610]

>>6628592
Why don't women just do great things and gain respect via meritocracy?

theres many that have done it already. AMD's CEO is a woman, multiple degrees. Yahoos CEO is a woman, billionaire.

Media is a product on the market, and thus is sold and marketed as one. Its obvious that whatever they're doing is working. Why would they start pandering to feminists? what good would it serve them? do you give them any incentive? otherwise why would they submit to your ideas, when they have entire departments to create ideas. many of which include women. Its their private creative property, they can do with it what they please. If you want female dominated media, simply create your own. Because thats what everybody else has done since businesses were a thing.

[Anonymous No.6628615]

>2012
>thinking any board was ever good at any time
>thinking /lit/ from the time it was created to the time you started lurking was the constantly the same
>thinking boards aren't constantly changing all the time
>being unaware of the fact that you weren't just ignorant of how shitty /lit/ was when you started lurking
>being this much of a newfag
▲
▲▲
tao lin here btw
mfw

[Anonymous No.6628634]

>>6628604
Then why does it attack female developers, gamers, and folks who don't support Gamergate? Why is it's main defining feature is a hostility to feminism? Why doesn't it target I don't know, gaming journalists? The fact of the matter is that there are people who are involved with Gamergate so they can stop feminism from entering vidya and these people are, if not in the majority, are at least the most vocal minority

>>6628610
Except that when you look at it, the vast majority of CEOs are men. Disproportionately even. So, if we had actual meritocracy in society, wouldn't the gender and racial makeup of career fields more or less reflect the general makeup of the society? I'm not arguing for diversity for diversity's sake, I'm arguing for the best and brightest to actually be considered and have the opportunity to be able to be qualified for any job. And also, if media is slowly becoming more diverse naturally, with not "pandering" to feminists and if more and more media is being produced by feminists, wouldn't this be an indicator that the market is veering towards more inclusive media?

[Anonymous No.6628640]

>>6628604
>This isn't supposed to be a feminist issue. It was literally just speaking out against corruption. How do you defend someone who slept with judge to get a good score on something?

As has been pointed out numerous times ITT, people claiming that gamergate doesn't have a sexist element are the problem with gamergate. You're in that category.

[Anonymous No.6628650]

>>6628640
> gamergate doesn't have a sexist element
Whereas you're just in the people claiming it has relevance to /lit/, anon. How much Nerval have you read?

[Anonymous No.6628672]

>>6628177
>Remember when lit was good xd
Never happened.

[Anonymous No.6628701]

>>6628650
I brought up GamerGate because someone asked about it (>>6628224). You were the one that related literature to it (>>6628242). Your example makes sense, but I still don't see why your attitude is respectful (as you claim it is in >>6628342). Usually, IMO, respect invovles trusting others to be competent to make their own decisions under normal conditions. You seem to want to make decisions for women while rejecting all the voices advocating for women other than your own.

[Anonymous No.6628730]

>>6628640
then why call it gamergate anymore?

what remains of the original purpose?

if its really just a bunch of bitter retards attacking unrelated topics, than its been co-opted by them.

>People claiming feminism doesn't have a hate element too it are the problem with feminism, you're in that category

Where do the #killallmen people fall? are they feminist? they sure claim that they are

>>6628634
Perhaps a look into why it seemingly attacks feminism, and not journalists will explain it?

Stopping feminism from being shoehorned into video games is legitimate cause, because its already been incorporated. There are countless examples of games with well written female leads and roles. but these are ignored for the likes of mainstream video games.

Regardless, video games are media, and you have no right to tell somebody how to write their game, this is what i'd imagine the hostility to feminism is about


>Why does it attack female devs, gamers, etc
why does feminism attack men, male anything, an folks that dont support feminism
The double edged sword is a cornerstone in equality, and it would seem some groups dont believe in it.

Second point: For the most part, they are. The brightest and best have made it to the top. They are rewarded for the fruits of their labor. Hence 2 extremely large "exceptions" to the rule, being leaders in the IT industry that is constantly attacked for not being female enough.

Meritocracy doesn't equal automatic equity. It implies it over time. Why would a company, who needs a brilliant physicist, hire a subpar physicist? They wouldn't. They would hire the best fit for the job. Someone who can offer the most of what they need and the least of what they dont.

The best and brightest actually aren't rewarded in the sense of feminism. Many programs are capped with required female quotas. Many male applicants are overlooked in favor of female applicants, which may or may not be brighter than their male counterparts at the time. Intelligence and ability is completely ignored. Its all based on whether you have a vagina or not. not your skill. which quite frankly i'd be offended if I were a woman and kept getting patronized by everybody because I have a vagina. not because I'm smart. which is exactly what people like you keep doing. This kindof thinking alone is damaging to women, implying they constantly need help of feminism in order to get a job, and then only getting them jobs based of their vagina. its just insulting.

The media over time will reflect its consumers and their wants. If it heads towards one more inclusive of feminist ideals, then it means that feminists are the paying customers more than any other group. or at least people who enjoy such media are.

[Anonymous No.6628750]

>>6628177
>a book mentioned on /lit/
>must be a meme! don't have to read now lol

[Anonymous No.6628764]

>>6628730
>then why call it gamergate anymore?
Because they call themselves that. There are boards on chans that must not be named dedicated to it and they go by /gamergate/, google them and tell me there's not a reason to refer to that collective as GamerGate.
>what remains of the original purpose?
Everything, because the actual cause was sexism as much as it was the quality of journalism. Again, I think all these people on both sides are idiots simply for being involved.
>Where do the #killallmen people fall? are they feminist? they sure claim that they are
There's more than one kind of feminism, just like there's more than one kind of conservatism and more than one kind of socialism. It isn't that hard to understand. I bet you shitpost in ideology threads all the time, try applying your Zizekisms once in a while.

This is really simple.

[Anonymous No.6628862]

>>6628764
I've been to it, its mostly "look at these morons, they're posting dumb shit" and "I want to help the cause, what websites haven't aligned with feminists, so i can get my news without an agenda"
The sticky and many threads seem to say "dont be an idiot and just attack people, you're ruining the movement"

How was the original intent sexism, please tell

if there is more than one kind of feminism, would it not be odd to ask if there is not more than one kind of "gamer gate activist"

the different between the two is that one has slightly more formal organization than the other, rather than being subject to loosely defined ideology that one can literally make up an decide its valid, and anybody who claims otherwise is bigoted.

[Anonymous No.6628872]

>>6628446
It's all about political gains.

The gains of lamenting romance novels: Slim to none - because women like it.

The gains of lamenting dudebro games: Plenty - because men like it.

[Anonymous No.6628875]

>>6628862
I'm not going to repeat myself.

[The cats No.6628896]

>>6628560
>Ciagendered white male
>Actually talking like this

Top brainwashing

[Anonymous No.6628926]

>>6628528
>yet all that gets critiqued are AAA blockbusters akin to a Michael Bay film in quality and narrative
It's simple. These games are much more known than the productions. Also, their profit margin is smaller, so they are regrettably more prone to catering to the (imagined) mainstream. Consider the 1st sin of Mass Effect 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUck8VPgEI

>>6628503
>A solution would be to make your own game, make it good, and push whatever agenda you want in it.
But that takes hard work! Muh magic assaultrifles that appears out of thin air:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxIfQ8ZFd8s

[Anonymous No.6628940]

>>6628177
STFU tumblr liberal cuck redditor gay SJW peace of shit

[The cats No.6628943]

>>6628634
>we had actual meritocracy in society, wouldn't the gender and racial makeup of career fields more or less reflect the general makeup of the society?

What in the fuck even makes you people so god damn fucking retarded? Is this b8?

[Anonymous No.6628963]

>>6628701
>You were the one that related literature to it
No, I'm a different anon who like Nerval, a hardly controversial opinion for a literature board. I'd recommend skipping the poetry part and maybe going straight to hanging yourself if you don't know how an anonymous Arabesque literary drug salon works.

[Anonymous No.6629026]

>>6628940
No u tbh

[Anonymous No.6629032]

>>6628963
>how an anonymous Arabesque literary drug salon works
What, you mean the way all the arguments are confusing because every participant is just a voice shouting in the dark?

[Anonymous No.6629043]

>>6629032
No, I mean kill yourself, you're tedious and have no good books to leave behind.

[Anonymous No.6629045]

>>6629043
I'm not even an aspiring writer

[Anonymous No.6629061]

>>6629045
Not much of a reader either.

[Anonymous No.6629091]

>>6628634
>The fact of the matter is that there are people who are involved with Gamergate so they can stop feminism

I'm one of these people.

You people should stay the fuck away to be honest, everything you touch turn into a politicized caricature of itself that needs to cater to every snowflake that can handle the real world.

I'm getting tired of you people and your fucking whining.

[Anonymous No.6629109]

>>6629061
Said the antifeminist

[Anonymous No.6629113]

>>6628237
>le permavirgin argument

Wow the high school year sure does end early these days.

[Anonymous No.6629144]

>>6628634
It does target journos, but you probably enjoy reading sensationalist dreck via Vice and Kotaku. GG has brought change to Polygon's code journalistic ethics. Anti-GG has brought change to Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn in the form of Patreon $$$. Furthermore, two can play that game. Tons of so-called SJWs threatened to harm Joss Whedon. Tons of people told him to go die, which would have been seen as a death threat had Gamer gate told him to do so.

[Anonymous No.6630601]

>>6628224
It's essentially just shitflinging from both sides, just play it safe and avoid video games altogether as the industry just isn't worth "saving."

[Anonymous No.6630627]

>>6620000