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/lit/ - Literature

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6621129 No.6621129 [Reply] [Original]

>inb4 hurr durr genre fiction a shit

So besides all that shitposting, I have a question. Is it even possible in this day and age to write a fantasy novel and/or series that is original and refreshing? Or has every base been pretty much covered in this genre already? If so, why even try to write in it outside of hopeful monetary purposes?

>> No.6621139

It's always possible.
The struggle to find original and refreshing fantasy and poetry has been going on since... around the Tolkien and CS Lewis generation.
And then Tolkien wrote LOTR and Lewis wrote Narnia, so there's definitely always a different perspective and fresh take on things.

>> No.6621143

>>6621129
No all genre fiction plots conform to a few archetypes that repeat themselves over and over.

They may be original in their details, but not overall

>> No.6621144

>>6621129
It's possible but no one would buy it because the most derivative generic shit is what sells.

>> No.6621147

hurr durr genre fiction a shit

>> No.6621151

I hate you, OP, I hate your guts. I loathe you in an abstract sort of way.

"Fantasy" is such a fucking broad genre that thinking we've covered it all is ludicrous. And you're part of the problem, OP, which is why you fucking suck. You're so trapped in this generic fantasy paradigm (the fact those two words are paired so often is case in point) that you can't imagine anything else than generic medieval countryside when you're looking at a maelstrom of new motifs and settings that are right there to tap into if you could just fucking see past the green fields and stone castles.

Fuck you, OP. I hope your milk spoils early.

>> No.6621159

>>6621151
Anything that isn't muh swords and muh magick is considered magical realism because fantasy is now conflated with those things as a genre due to marketing.

>> No.6621161

Just use a different source material for your worldbuilding instead of Europe and you've already trimmed 90% of the fat.

>> No.6621170
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6621170

>>6621151
>>6621139 My point exactly if a bit brusque.
But most people will realize how much broader than some medieval magic soon, as Europeans aren't the only ones writing fantasy anymore.
Globalization~

>> No.6621181

>>6621161
Europe has the most attractive history for fantasy settings hence it's overuse. There aren't many people who would want to read about some story based off of African tribal history.

>Ooga booga I kill Bum Bum with stick for looking at wife

Just not as appealing, mate.

>> No.6621182

>>6621181
There is more to non Euro history than Sub Saharan tribals.
>>>/elementary school/

>> No.6621183

>>6621182
It was an example, learn what those are. Many other cultures have already been covered well over in fantasy as well. So name some of interest that have yet to be influences in said genre.

>> No.6621184

>>6621129
well you got it right at the end. Money directs a certain kind of story, or at least some archetypes that, even if originally detailed through characters or tone, remain the same.
But in the end, originality doesn't matter so much if the story is written well and if you want to keep reading it, or even a few times.
Some books have originality but are poorly written...

>> No.6621189

>>6621181
i'd gladly read something fantasy based on the history of africa
it's a fucking huge continent with a great amount of people, shit like mansa musa destroying the worth of gold on his pilgrimage across the continent or the interaction between the Mediterranean cultures with the sub-saharan ones
maybe it's just because we've been so inundated with traditional stone castles and green pastures, though

>> No.6621194

>>6621183
Eeeeegh African history has influenced quite a bit of fiction and fantasy.
Zombies being the most popular right now.

>> No.6621279

>>6621181
>Egypt
>Carthage
>Songhai

excuse you

>> No.6621283

>>6621279
>Egypt
Except you're wrong, dummy.

>> No.6621284
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6621284

>>6621161
>mfw using Ys and Tales of games as a basis for creatures and shit

>> No.6621290

>>6621283
Is there any good Egypt inspired Fantasy that isn't YA?
I've looked for it, but never found one.

>> No.6621296

>>6621181
so I'm guessing you are forgetting about China, Japan, India, Middle Eastern Countries, the Americas

>> No.6621304

how about religion?

>> No.6621321

>>6621129
Why are dwarfs always portrayed as bearded, industrious, cave-dwelling miners, craftsmen, and businessmen?

>> No.6621330

>>6621321
Because they are usually portrayed as a "lower" class in society becuase they are dwarfs. That typically leads to handymen sort of jobs, like what a Mexican in American society would do.

Or they are portrayed as cunning to make up for their physical deformities as a means to survive in the world.

>> No.6622063

>>6621143
so exactly like most regular fiction then?

>> No.6622553

>>6621129
Where are all the game of thrones book-purists at?

I want someone to simply explain the theory about Jon Snow's mother.

Anyone?

>> No.6622564

>>6621330

No you fucking dimwit, it goes back to Norse mythology, go read a book before spouting your pseudo intellectual marxist drivel.

>> No.6622644

>>6621330
Dwarves are Mexican, this is now a fact

>> No.6622667

>>6622644
If some dwarves are Mexican, are all Mexicans dwarves? Mexidwarves.

>> No.6622693

>>6622667

I prefer Dwarvxicans myself.

>> No.6622775

>>6622553

Jon is Danys nephew

>> No.6622793

>>6622693
And Canadwarves.

>> No.6622802

>>6621129

The reason people call it shit is that the genre's tropes are too cemented to do much else with now but pastiche. The literary side of fantasy and SF, on the other hand, speculative fiction, is freer, less disciplined, and wide open for new inventions.

>> No.6622808

>>6621129
Everything was already covered the day Tolkien died.

>> No.6622813

>>6621194
I thought Zombies were an idea from South America?

>> No.6622839

>>6621161
>>6621181
That's the problem. I wish someone would take the next step and make an entirely new fantasy world, with completely original culture. That's the only way the genre can progress. Fantasy in the 19th century and earlier was all based directly on Earth and fantasy worlds within the real world. Then Tolkien came along and built a completely independent world that was inspired by European culture. We need a new Tolkien who can take it even further and make a culture that's independent of the one we've experienced our whole lives.

>> No.6622846

>>6622813
No. Zombies are an idea that originates from West African voodoo.

>> No.6622859

>>6622839
'Completely original' is impossible. Everyone writes based off of what they know.

>> No.6622866

>>6621183
>name some of interest that have yet to be influences in said genre
Mongolian culture is very interesting, and I haven't seen any fantasy related to that. Same with Cambodia and Burma.

>> No.6622871

>>6622859
Then there's nowhere left to go.

>> No.6622877

>>6622839
I want this too, but it's a circular problem.
When we come up with something new, it will be copied and parodied to death, until it's just as trite and hackneyed as the fantasy tropes we have now.

We need something more than something new.
We need new methods and frameworks that can be used to create entire slews of new fantasy.

>> No.6622884

>>6622877
The problem is that there are no authors creative enough who write fantasy. It's become a genre for people who just copy what's already been done many times and many more.

>> No.6622912

Define “genre”.

>> No.6622921

>>6621129
small tangent

Where does this modern hunger for new fiction stem from? Humans were satisfied with the same old folk stories for hundreds of years and now all of a sudden we hear demands and outcries for new paradigms.

What gives? Are we finally just now fed up with old folk mythology?
Or have we been conditioned by Hollywood to constantly expect to be fed new and different experiences?

>> No.6622928

>>6622921

>new and different experiences

>Hollywood

kekkles! Subtle.

>> No.6622930

>>6622921
>Or have we been conditioned by Hollywood to constantly expect to be fed new and different experiences?
I honestly thought the same. Maybe by now we are so used to always replace the old with the new that we can no longer accept old themes in our media.

>> No.6622934
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6622934

Pretty original and refreshing to me

>> No.6622950

>>6622921
I don't know, I don't actually read any new literature. Old shit is better, and that goes for music as well. If I haven't read it, it's new to me.

>> No.6622979

>>6622921
>humans were satisfied with the same old folk stories for hundreds of years and now all of a sudden we hear demandes

Did you even read anything pre-tolkien? Basically, anyone outcrying here about “genre fiction” just complains about the thousands of Tolkien rip-offs. If we had some modern Meyrink or Maupassant, we would praise it again.

>> No.6623000

>>6621129
Of course it is, but don't grab inspiration from the same wasted sources, or genre fiction itself.

>> No.6623033

>>6622921
>Or have we been conditioned by Hollywood to constantly expect to be fed new and different experiences?
Not just Hollywood. Big pharma has been drugging the American youth with Ritalin for a few decades.

>> No.6623039

It's all about setting. I've got all sorts of fun worlds I've been trying to move into novels. They won't be "deep" or anything, but they'll be fun.

>> No.6623076

>>6622921
>>6623033
Except for the fact that nothing Hollywood puts out is actually significantly new or different.

If it actually worked that way everyone would be watching no budget art-house flicks and going to things like Tromadance.

If anything, Hollywood and the media conglomerates have conditioned people to watch the same things over and over again while thinking they're new or different.

>> No.6623089

>>6623076

It's scary that you have to state this, isn't it?

We gonna be ok anon?

>> No.6623134

>>6622950
Le born in the wrong generation XD

>> No.6623162

I have an idea for a high fantasy world based on the copper age. Should I write it?

>> No.6623168

>>6623162
no

>> No.6623177

>>6623168
Okay, thanks. Any advice on what I should do instead?

>> No.6623191

>>6623089
Probably not.

>> No.6623205

>>6621129

Can you even be 30+ and not a complete nerd to enjoy reading K page books on fantasy?

I think these types of books are mostly for teens and young adults.

>> No.6623240

It's easy as fuck to write original fantasy, because most fantasy isn't very original, which means there's a lot of ground left to cover.

>> No.6623325

>>6623134
>>>/mu/

>> No.6623346
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6623346

Sapkowski is the true master of the genre, Martin be damned.

Something about slavic folklore doesn't come off as insipid as other mythos. Their myths are so horrible and cruel, as he puts it, to distract from how horrible and cruel they are to themselves.

>> No.6623354
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6623354

Already on the case, chief.

>> No.6623404

>>6623346

How is the Witcher series not on the recommended reading list? It's at least as good as the other crap on there.

>> No.6623729

>>6621151
This.

The last fantasy back I read was The Master and Margarita...great book

>> No.6623756

The desire for originality is pretty fucking dumb. I don't see any sense in it at all. It's just the fetishisation of gimmicks. It's not even a case of 'nothing was ever original' it's more a case of retelling the same story is perfectly legitimate.

There's lots of interesting stuff left to be done in the fantasy genre and it allows a writer to tell big stories where certain qualities such as loyalty, courage, nationality etc. can be explored in a much more direct fashion.