/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6615233]

>"Nietzsche loved Jews! The Nazis completely misused his philosophy!

Really?

>"Every nation, every man, possesses unpleasant, indeed dangerous qualities: It is cruel to demand that the Jew should constitute an exception. In him these qualities are dangerous and repellent to an exceptional degree; and perhaps the youthful stock-exchange Jew is the most repulsive invention of the entire human race.
- Human all too human, p.175

>"Their souls have never known chivalrous noble sentiments."
- Daybreak: Thoughts on the Prejudices of Morality, p. 206

>[Jews] are the most evil of enemies—but why? Because they are the most powerless. From their powerlessness, their hate grows among them into something huge and terrifying, to the most spiritual and most poisonous manifestations. The truly great haters in world history have always been [Jews]...
- On The Genealogy of Morals

>"The Jews' "redemption" of humanity is going forward; the progress of this poison through the entire body of mankind seems irresistible."
- On The Genealogy of Morals

>"People of the basest origin, in part rabble, outcasts not only from good but also from respectable society, raised away from even the smell of culture, without discipline, without knowledge, without the remotest suspicion that there is such a thing as conscience in spiritual matters; simply—Jews: with an instinctive ability to create an advantage, a means of seduction out of every superstitious supposition… When Jews step forward as innocence itself, then the danger is great."
- The Will to Power

[Anonymous No.6615239]

>"Rome felt that the Jew was like something contrary to nature itself, its monstrous polar opposite, as it were. In Rome the Jew was considered “guilty of hatred against the entire human race.” And that view was correct, to the extent that we are right to link the health and the future of the human race to the unconditional rule of aristocratic values, the Roman values."

[Anonymous No.6615247]

>>6615233
But....but...muh progressive college agenda!!

[Anonymous No.6615270]

>Not understand that Nietzsche was a Perspectatvist

He didn't inherently support or admonish a great number of things that he wrote about, he enticed the reader to embrace new perspectives. To read one or two passages and think he supported the opinions of those one or two passages completely misses his point.

It;s why both thinkers on the left and right love Nietzsche, he can talk about the values of social bonding on one page while singing the praises of being the enlightened and estranged superman on another.

[Anonymous No.6615275]

>>6615247
fuck off

>>6615233
Obviously, you're completely ignorant of the history of antisemitism, this is, at best, though probably not even, since he is writing these in a literary voice, anti-jewish prejudice (anti-judaism), not a coherent pseudo-scientific racial theory or conspiracy theory, which is anti-semitism, something that he demonstrably hated.
Nobody ever said that he "loved jews"

[Anonymous No.6615278]

>>6615275
>>6615270
>These mental gymnastics.

[Anonymous No.6615284]

"While Nietzsche attacked the principles of Judaism, he was not antisemitic: in his work On the Genealogy of Morality, he explicitly condemns antisemitism, and pointed out that his attack on Judaism was not an attack on Jews as a people but specifically an attack upon the ancient Jewish priesthood whom he claims antisemitic Christians paradoxically based their views upon."

" He associates slave-morality with the Jewish and Christian traditions, in a way that slave-morality is born out of the ressentiment of slaves."

"In a March 29, 1887 letter to Theodor Fritsch, Nietzsche mocked anti-Semitics, Fritsch, Eugen Dühring, Wagner, Ebrard, Wahrmund"

"This 1887 letter to Fritsch ended by: "-- And finally, how do you think I feel when the name Zarathustra is mouthed by anti-Semites? ...""

"Nietzsche heavily criticized his sister and her husband, Bernhard Förster, speaking harshly against the "anti-Semitic canaille:""

[Anonymous No.6615288]

>>6615278
>actually quote mining
>dismissing intelligent reading as dishonest
literal degeneracy

[Anonymous No.6615307]

muh contemporary, post-holocosto politics are just like freidrich nietchez'.

All hale teh new Don.

[Anonymous No.6615308]

>"A thinker who has the development of Europe on his conscience will…take into account the Jews as well as the Russians as the provisionally surest and most probable factors in the great play and fight of forces. … That the Jews, if they wanted it…could even now have preponderance, indeed quite literally mastery over Europe, that is certain; that they are not working and planning for that is equally certain."

>"The Jews have brought off that miraculous feat of an inversion of values, thanks to which life on earth has acquired a novel and dangerous attraction for a couple of millennia. … Their prophets…were the first to use the word ‘world’ as a term of contempt. This inversion of values…constitutes the significance of the Jewish people: they mark the beginning of the slave rebellion in morals."

>"The reality upon which Christianity could be raised was the little Jewish family of the Diaspora, with its warmth and affection, with its readiness to help and sustain one another… To have recognized in this a form of power, to have recognized that this blissful condition was communicable, seductive, infectious to pagans also—that was [St.] Paul’s genius."

>"
The Jews are the most remarkable nation of world history because, faced with the question of being or not being, they preferred ... being at any price: the price they had to pay was the radical falsification of all nature, all naturalness, all reality, the entire inner world as well as the outer. ... Considered psychologically, the Jewish nation is a nation of the toughest vital energy which ... took the side of all décadence instincts—not as being dominated by them but because it divined in them a power by means of which one can prevail against ‘the world.’ The Jews are the counterparts of décadents: they have been compelled to act as décadents to the point of illusion.... [T]his kind of man has a life-interest in making mankind sick, and in inverting the concepts of ‘good’ and ‘evil,’ ‘true’ and ‘false’ in a mortally dangerous and world-maligning sense. (sec. 24)"

[Anonymous No.6615327]

>>6615233
there are some harsh quotes where Nietzsche could be read as an antigermany aswell.

[Anonymous No.6615350]

>>6615327
He was anti-Germany, but pro-European.

[Anonymous No.6615396]

"No, we do not love humanity; but on the other hand we are not nearly 'German' enough, in the sense in which the word 'German' is constantly used nowadays, to advocate nationalism and racial hatred and to be able to take pleasure in the national scabies of the heart and blood poisoning with which European peoples nowadays delimit and barricade themselves against each other with quarantines. ... We who are homeless are too diverse and racially mixed in our descent, as 'modern men', and consequently we are not inclined to participate in the mendacious racial self-admiration and obscenity that parades in Germany today as a sign of a German way of thinking and that is double false and indecent among the people of the 'historical sense'."
- The Gay Science

"In the meantime I've seen proof, black on white, that Herr Dr. Förster has not yet severed his connection with the anti-Semitic movement. [...] Since then I've had difficulty coming up with any of the tenderness and protectiveness I've so long felt toward you. The separation between us is thereby decided in really the most absurd way. Have you grasped nothing of the reason why I am in the world? [...] Now it has gone so far that I have to defend myself hand and foot against people who confuse me with these anti-semitic canaille; after my own sister, my former sister, and after Widemann more recently have given the impetus to this most dire of all confusions.
After I read the name Zarathustra in the anti-semitic correspondence my forbearance came to an end. I am now in a position of emergency defense against your spouse's party.

These accursed anti-Semite deformities shall not sully my ideal!!"
- A letter to his sister concerning her anti-semitic husband

[Anonymous No.6615399]

>>6615233
What a way of framing the topic. Scholars, academics, and philosophers have in large part already recognized that Nietzsche didn't love the Jews; but they also recognize that he's not anti-Semitic, and that most of his critique of Jews and Judaism are founded upon a critique of the moral values of Judaism (values that he sees present in Christianity and in secular democratic enlightenment trends).

[Anonymous No.6615414]

>>6615275
I mean he certainly wouldn't have supported any sort of crimes against the Jews, but that doesn't change the fact that he held various negative beliefs about them.

[Anonymous No.6615428]

OP is an idiot, he actually thinks some Jewish prejudice is synonymous with philosophical support of eugenic genocide

[Anonymous No.6615442]

>>6615414
Does disagreement with Jewish theology count as "a negative belief about them", as an example?

Disagreement with their theology and morality is not the same as anti-Semitism, and it's not the same as mere prejudice.

[Anonymous No.6615460]

>>6615442

Did you read the quotes? They are about the jewish people, not the judaic tradition.

[Anonymous No.6615465]

Nietzsche hated Jews no more than he hated Christianity. He recognized both for what they are which in no way implied hatred.

[Anonymous No.6615468]

>>6615233
Nietzsche admired the Jews for their tenacity and their survival traits, much like he admired the Romani for theirs, but that doesn't mean he loved them.

[Anonymous No.6615485]

>>6615396
He was against everything contemporary. If a love of Jews was popular than he would be overtly 'antisemetic'.

[Anonymous No.6615493]

It's funny how passages from Beyond Good & Evil haven't been selected fro. Let's fix that:

52. In the Jewish "Old Testament," the book of divine justice, there are men, things, and sayings on such an immense scale, that Greek and Indian literature has nothing to compare with it. One stands with fear and reverence before those stupendous remains of what man was formerly, and one has sad thoughts about old Asia and its little out-pushed peninsula Europe, which would like, by all means, to figure before Asia as the "Progress of Mankind." To be sure, he who is himself only a slender, tame house-animal, and knows only the wants of a house-animal (like our cultured people of today, including the Christians of "cultured" Christianity), need neither be amazed nor even sad amid those ruins—the taste for the Old Testament is a touchstone with respect to "great" and "small": perhaps he will find that the New Testament, the book of grace, still appeals more to his heart (there is much of the odour of the genuine, tender, stupid beadsman and petty soul in it). To have bound up this New Testament (a kind of ROCOCO of taste in every respect) along with the Old Testament into one book, as the "Bible," as "The Book in Itself," is perhaps the greatest audacity and "sin against the Spirit" which literary Europe has upon its conscience.

195. The Jews—a people "born for slavery," as Tacitus and the whole ancient world say of them; "the chosen people among the nations," as they themselves say and believe—the Jews performed the miracle of the inversion of valuations, by means of which life on earth obtained a new and dangerous charm for a couple of millenniums. Their prophets fused into one the expressions "rich," "godless," "wicked," "violent," "sensual," and for the first time coined the word "world" as a term of reproach. In this inversion of valuations (in which is also included the use of the word "poor" as synonymous with "saint" and "friend") the significance of the Jewish people is to be found; it is with THEM that the SLAVE-INSURRECTION IN MORALS commences.

[Anonymous No.6615499]

>>6615442
No, I mean he firmly believed in the stereotypes of the dishonest Jew, the usurer, etc.
He didn't condemn them for the same reason he refused to condemn other immoral people, he wasn't very fond of "slave morality."

[Anonymous No.6615509]

248. There are two kinds of geniuses: one which above all engenders and seeks to engender, and another which willingly lets itself be fructified and brings forth. And similarly, among the gifted nations, there are those on whom the woman's problem of pregnancy has devolved, and the secret task of forming, maturing, and perfecting—the Greeks, for instance, were a nation of this kind, and so are the French; and others which have to fructify and become the cause of new modes of life—like the Jews, the Romans, and, in all modesty be it asked: like the Germans?—nations tortured and enraptured by unknown fevers and irresistibly forced out of themselves, amorous and longing for foreign races (for such as "let themselves be fructified"), and withal imperious, like everything conscious of being full of generative force, and consequently empowered "by the grace of God." These two kinds of geniuses seek each other like man and woman; but they also misunderstand each other—like man and woman.

250. What Europe owes to the Jews?—Many things, good and bad, and above all one thing of the nature both of the best and the worst: the grand style in morality, the fearfulness and majesty of infinite demands, of infinite significations, the whole Romanticism and sublimity of moral questionableness—and consequently just the most attractive, ensnaring, and exquisite element in those iridescences and allurements to life, in the aftersheen of which the sky of our European culture, its evening sky, now glows—perhaps glows out. For this, we artists among the spectators and philosophers, are—grateful to the Jews.

[Anonymous No.6615517]

251. It must be taken into the bargain, if various clouds and disturbances—in short, slight attacks of stupidity—pass over the spirit of a people that suffers and WANTS to suffer from national nervous fever and political ambition: for instance, among present-day Germans there is alternately the anti-French folly, the anti-Semitic folly, the anti-Polish folly, the Christian-romantic folly, the Wagnerian folly, the Teutonic folly, the Prussian folly (just look at those poor historians, the Sybels and Treitschkes, and their closely bandaged heads), and whatever else these little obscurations of the German spirit and conscience may be called. May it be forgiven me that I, too, when on a short daring sojourn on very infected ground, did not remain wholly exempt from the disease, but like every one else, began to entertain thoughts about matters which did not concern me—the first symptom of political infection. About the Jews, for instance, listen to the following:—I have never yet met a German who was favourably inclined to the Jews; and however decided the repudiation of actual anti-Semitism may be on the part of all prudent and political men, this prudence and policy is not perhaps directed against the nature of the sentiment itself, but only against its dangerous excess, and especially against the distasteful and infamous expression of this excess of sentiment;—on this point we must not deceive ourselves. That Germany has amply SUFFICIENT Jews, that the German stomach, the German blood, has difficulty (and will long have difficulty) in disposing only of this quantity of "Jew"—as the Italian, the Frenchman, and the Englishman have done by means of a stronger digestion:—that is the unmistakable declaration and language of a general instinct, to which one must listen and according to which one must act. "Let no more Jews come in! And shut the doors, especially towards the East (also towards Austria)!"—thus commands the instinct of a people whose nature is still feeble and uncertain, so that it could be easily wiped out, easily extinguished, by a stronger race. The Jews, however, are beyond all doubt the strongest, toughest, and purest race at present living in Europe, they know how to succeed even under the worst conditions (in fact better than under favourable ones), by means of virtues of some sort, which one would like nowadays to label as vices—owing above all to a resolute faith which does not need to be ashamed before "modern ideas", they alter only, WHEN they do alter, in the same way that the Russian Empire makes its conquest—as an empire that has plenty of time and is not of yesterday—namely, according to the principle, "as slowly as possible"! (Cont.)

[Anonymous No.6615523]

(Cont.) A thinker who has the future of Europe at heart, will, in all his perspectives concerning the future, calculate upon the Jews, as he will calculate upon the Russians, as above all the surest and likeliest factors in the great play and battle of forces. That which is at present called a "nation" in Europe, and is really rather a RES FACTA than NATA (indeed, sometimes confusingly similar to a RES FICTA ET PICTA), is in every case something evolving, young, easily displaced, and not yet a race, much less such a race AERE PERENNUS, as the Jews are such "nations" should most carefully avoid all hot-headed rivalry and hostility! It is certain that the Jews, if they desired—or if they were driven to it, as the anti-Semites seem to wish—COULD now have the ascendancy, nay, literally the supremacy, over Europe, that they are NOT working and planning for that end is equally certain. Meanwhile, they rather wish and desire, even somewhat importunely, to be insorbed and absorbed by Europe, they long to be finally settled, authorized, and respected somewhere, and wish to put an end to the nomadic life, to the "wandering Jew",—and one should certainly take account of this impulse and tendency, and MAKE ADVANCES to it (it possibly betokens a mitigation of the Jewish instincts) for which purpose it would perhaps be useful and fair to banish the anti-Semitic bawlers out of the country. One should make advances with all prudence, and with selection, pretty much as the English nobility do It stands to reason that the more powerful and strongly marked types of new Germanism could enter into relation with the Jews with the least hesitation, for instance, the nobleman officer from the Prussian border it would be interesting in many ways to see whether the genius for money and patience (and especially some intellect and intellectuality—sadly lacking in the place referred to) could not in addition be annexed and trained to the hereditary art of commanding and obeying—for both of which the country in question has now a classic reputation But here it is expedient to break off my festal discourse and my sprightly Teutonomania for I have already reached my SERIOUS TOPIC, the "European problem," as I understand it, the rearing of a new ruling caste for Europe.

[Anonymous No.6615560]

>>6615460
Did you read my post? I didn't say anything about a distinction between people and tradition, I said that Nietzsche's disagreement with their theology and morality (in short, their culture) isn't the same as mere prejudice against Jews.

And since this is usually in response to a certain liberal stance, I'd like to note that the thesis that one can disagree with the culture or values of a minority group is not controversial or fundamentally illiberal. One can desire the political and social equality of a group without embracing certain practices or stances.

[Anonymous No.6616096]

>>6615233

Quotations 1 and 2: out of context. Here they are in context:

> Incidentally, the whole problem of the Jews exists only within national states, inasmuch as their energy and higher intelligence, their capital of spirit and will, which accumulated from generation to generation in the long school of their suffering, must predominate to a degree that awakens envy and hatred; and so, in the literature of nearly all present-day nations (and, in fact, in proportion to their renewed nationalistic behavior), there is an increase in the literary misconduct that leads the Jews to the slaughterhouse, as scapegoats for every possible public and private misfortune. As soon as it is no longer a matter of preserving nations, but rather of producing the strongest possible mixed European race, the Jew becomes as useful and desirable an ingredient as any other national quantity. Every nation, every man has disagreeable, even dangerous characteristics; it is cruel to demand that the Jew should be an exception. Those characteristics may even be especially dangerous and frightful in him, and perhaps the youthful Jew of the stock exchange is the most repugnant invention of the whole human race. Nevertheless, I would like to know how much one must excuse in the overall accounting of a people which, not without guilt on all our parts, has had the most sorrowful history of all peoples, and to whom we owe the noblest human being (Christ), the purest philosopher (Spinoza), the mightiest book, and the most effective moral code in the world.

This quote pretty much reveals you didn't read the book in question before you went out and dug up all these quotes off of antisemitic sites or wherever it was you found them.

> "Their souls have never known chivalrous noble sentiments."

Again, you need to look at this in context... This is from a generally very pro-Jewish passage (with a few negative comments).

There's at least one misquotation here:

>[Jews] are the most evil of enemies—but why? Because they are the most powerless. From their powerlessness, their hate grows among them into something huge and terrifying, to the most spiritual and most poisonous manifestations. The truly great haters in world history have always been [Jews]...

Partial misquote: he never mentioned Jews in these passages, he said 'priest'.

>"The Jews' "redemption" of humanity is going forward; the progress of this poison through the entire body of mankind seems irresistible."

This quote is slightly better for your propagandistic aims but you still inserted the word 'Jew' where it does not in occur in the text, thus making it a misquote.

Your final quote is actually real but who in the 19th century didn't say shit like that? It was a less word-mincing time.

[Anonymous No.6616145]

You keep starting these anti-Nietzsche threads over and over again... I can tell who you are from your tone of writing; it's like you have this massive hang up and are ever planning your latest propaganda piece against him and waiting for the right moment to strike. I don't think your latest effort of using his quotes out of context and inserting words into quotes that aren't really there is doing you much better (like you did understand that people who read Nietzsche's books were going to see that your quotes were incorrect and post the real ones, right?)

But I've taken pity on you, I have a suggestion:

If you want to make a really good propaganda campaign against Nietzsche you should focus on his later books... From Beyond Good and Evil to The AntiChrist. This was Nietzsche's 'edgy period' and do contain truly illiberal passages that (unlike your ridiculous out of context quotes from human all too human and Daybreak which are overall 90%+ liberal books) actually would damage Nietzsche's reputation if you got them into a journal.

In particular you would want to focus on:

> The first essay from The Genealogy of Morals.

This is the closest Nietzsche ever got to being truly antisemitic so your libels will be well aided by this passage.

> the last chapter of Beyond Good and Evil

This is where Nietzsche famously wrote about how advanced civilizations depend on exploitation. The passages are entirely descriptive but with some selective quotation you should be able to make it look like an endorsement.

> Section on St. Paul in The AntiChrist.

This has some passages where there is genuine condemnation of a certain strain of Judaism so you will find it very useful.

With luck you will succeed in your efforts to get Nietzsche's books banned and relieve the great cognitive dissonance that is obviously bothering you. I'm afraid I have to give your efforts ITT an 'F' and I'll remind you that people have been publishing these grab bags of selective Nietzsche quotes for ages now and they don't seem to have had much effect on his reception.