/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6607252]

How is it that some thinkers hate individuality? The individual is all that exists. Do thinkers like Milbank and Marx actually make any argument that people are anything *but* individuals?

[Anonymous No.6607290]

they hate themselves

[Anonymous No.6607295]

>>6607252
Of course people are not just individuals. All factors of human existence require multiple sublations of individuality.

[Anonymous No.6607300]

The glorification of individuality is preposterous from every other perspective except your own.

[Anonymous No.6607312]

I think the idea of a separate self always involves some kind of magic (an event that cannot be explained rationally), and the idea that there is no separate self is the only logical conclusion of materialism.
The idea of the separate self gradually dies out over time, like the idea that the earth is the center of the universe.
So, people would gradually realize that there's one indivisible universe that "we" live in, and the evolution of human thought would progress toward the realization that each human being is in no way separate from the entire universe, and the feeling of individuality was just that, only a feeling, but not based on anything that can be substantiated by science or reason.
So the feeling of individuality and a separate self was just a big meme, which became incredibly prevalent through natural selection, but then eventually fades away because it does not hold up to reason and science.

[Anonymous No.6607352]

>the weakening of religion would correlate with class consciousness, they said!
>the erosion of the family would lead to class solidarity, they said!

[Anonymous No.6607360]

Slightly off topic bit I think similar could be said of right-wing nationalists (especially the likes of which crawl around /pol/).
It's why patriotism- in the sense that an individual believes the imagined community that is the nation is anything more than a construct- is for the masses only. The elites who constructed that imagined community (and I'm aware the construct is not merely top down but anyway) are perfectly aware it's a construct.

[Anonymous No.6607377]

>>6607352
Shut up Milbank, it's not like there was greater class consciousness among religious people. The bourgeoisie saved its ass via nationalism and the welfare state, not by abolishing religion.

[Anonymous No.6607418]

>>6607377
Saved its ass, yes, but its unprecedented power that surged with neoliberalism is something else.

[Anonymous No.6607429]

>>6607418
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11633305/University-union-officer-who-wrote-kill-all-white-men-tweet-will-remain-in-post.html?fb_ref=Default

[Anonymous No.6607450]

>>6607418
>unprecedented
The working class has seen worse days tbh. Capitalism as it is today sustains itself not by excluding workers, but by having them participate in their own exploitation. Also, why that picture? We're talking about religion and class struggle, not sjws.

[Anonymous No.6607457]

>>6607450
The working class has seen worse days, but the bourgeoisie has never seen better days.

SJW's are filling the space that was lost by religion, they are religion for the new generation

[Anonymous No.6607464]

>>6607252
Marxism is not a negation of individuality you fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.6607498]

>>6607457
>the bourgeoisie has never seen better days
I'd say the age of robber barons was certainly a bigger blast. And let's not forget the nostalgia for the 50s.

>SJW's are filling the space that was lost by religion, they are religion for the new generation
So, they'll reinforce class consciousness again? I doubt that, but wouldn't this be a reason for you to like them? Admit ti, you're just mad it isn't your religion anymore.

[Anonymous No.6607543]

>>6607498
>I'd say the age of robber barons was certainly a bigger blast.
In a sense, but they also faced a lot more public antagonism. Their position wasn't nearly as stable as it is today.

>And let's not forget the nostalgia for the 50s.
Unions were a lot stronger then, despite communist paranoia.

>So, they'll reinforce class consciousness again? I doubt that, but wouldn't this be a reason for you to like them? Admit ti, you're just mad it isn't your religion anymore.
It's scapegoating born out of liberal thought. I wouldn't quote compare it fascism, but the scapegoating methods are certainly similar

[Anonymous No.6607549]

Well, OP, let's start with your reference and see where it led to with its latest rendition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avwrL9syLvc

[Anonymous No.6607588]

>>6607252
This thread is being raided by /leftypol/, an SJW board on 2+6chan.

[Anonymous No.6607591]

>>6607543
>but they also faced a lot more public antagonism
Yeah, but their antagonists were utterly disenfrachised. Today's post-fascist corporatism , again, is not unlimited bourgeois power, but a merger of capital and souvereignty.
>Unions were a lot stronger then, despite communist paranoia
Unions got their head beaten to a pulp by hired thugs. Good times.
>It's scapegoating born out of liberal thought
You mean, like in a witch hunt? You have a point, religious people would never do that kind of thing.

[Anonymous No.6607604]

>>6607588
dude checkers lmao

[Anonymous No.6607609]

>>6607588
Goddammit, people still do this?

[Anonymous No.6607625]

>>6607588
>anything on autistcripple-chan
>SJW

I'm pretty sure they formed their own niche jacking off over gulags and zizek while opposing identity politics.

Yours is a special kind of paranoia if you really believe they are SJW over there and it makes me think you're a counter-raider from /pol/.

[Anonymous No.6607629]

You can't really say much without generlisatons.

[Anonymous No.6607632]

>>6607591
>Yeah, but their antagonists were utterly disenfrachised.
And still posed a significant threat.

> Today's post-fascist corporatism
I don't think you know what corporatism means.

> again, is not unlimited bourgeois power, but a merger of capital and souvereignty.
The state is just an apparatus for the capitalist class, a tool they don't agree how to use quite, but are getting much better at.

>You mean, like in a witch hunt? You have a point, religious people would never do that kind of thing.
Puritanism is a form of Protestantism which grew out of liberalism.

I'm not saying scapegoating can't be done by religion, I'm saying religion, particularly orthodox Christianity, doesn't revolve around scapegoating a demographic to shift attention away from class issues.

[Anonymous No.6607633]

>>6607625
Back to /leftypol/ you go.

[Anonymous No.6607638]

>>6607625
He's a spamming faggot who keeps baiting /leftypol/ with same copypastas every day, he's pretty much obsessed with us at this point

[Anonymous No.6607643]

>>6607633
I thought it was funny to imagine that you're probably here on behalf of 2+6ch /pol/, watching /leftypol/ like a hawk.

It gets funnier still because you have these images ready. I think you should be the one to go back to autistcripple-chan, not me.

[Anonymous No.6607655]

>>6607588
I'm the one who wrote >>6607591 and I'm not from that site. The person I'm arguing with is a christian, so I doubt that he is, either. Where are those insidious raiders?

[Anonymous No.6607664]

>>6607638
You blame me for every post that isn't perfectly in line with your SJW grape juice flavored edgeboy communism. People get banned and have all their posts purged because they tripped up and said something you imagine I would say. It's hilarious.

[Anonymous No.6607668]

>>6607632
>The state is just an apparatus for the capitalist class, a tool they don't agree how to use quite, but are getting much better at.
You seem to have missed some histroy right there m8, and some Marx. The state is the universal ideal capitalist in that its imperative is inseparable from the imperative of capital, but at the same time, capital is intrinsically bound to that objective structure of power. In times of crisis, that power may o ertake, even against the immediate interest of capital, to save the symbiotic organism.
>Puritanism is a form of Protestantism which grew out of liberalism.
sorry, but puritanic witch hunts were just copyying the catholic original.
>particularly orthodox Christianity,
Are you literally John Milbank?
>doesn't revolve around scapegoating a demographic to shift attention away from class issues.
Tell that to the black hundreds, or their numerous modern russian equivalents.

[Anonymous No.6607677]

>>6607655
We are the secret club of Marxist-Memeists, join us
>>6607664
No one ever banned you Checkers and you know it, stop playing victim. You're just mad no one ever responds to your pathetic baits

[Anonymous No.6607678]

>>6607252

>The individual is all that exists

Best case scenario: you're born into a family. That family offers you a worldview and support. Then you transition into a group of friends. They offer you augmentations to your worldview and support. Then you enter into a profession. Your colleges an augmentation of worldview and support. You enter into a relationship, then a marriage. So on. You are now a self-actualized, productive person. Subtract all that support, all that perspective, are you? On top of that, for each of these people, you assume roles: son, friend, colleague, lover. Are you these that much less than you are OP?

[Anonymous No.6607679]

>>6607655
Dunno. Visitors are over here:

>>6607638
This is /leftypol/ complete with stalin reaction image.

>>6607664
>>6607633
>>6607588
This is autistcripple-chan /pol/.

I don't think either of them is a Christian but I can say their mutual hatred is biblical.

[Anonymous No.6607680]

>>6607252
With perfect individuality communication has a tendency to break down.

[Anonymous No.6607684]

>>6607668
>In times of crisis, that power may o ertake, even against the immediate interest of capital, to save the symbiotic organism.
"a tool they don't agree how to use" because part of the bourgeoisie is too stupid to into long-term interest, yet another part is sore competent.

>sorry, but puritanic witch hunts were just copyying the catholic original.
Nothing like what happened under the Puritans happened in Catholicism, and you shouldn't think Catholicism was a single mindset in the part, it was several, and one eventually gave birth to Protestantism and liberalism.

>Tell that to the black hundreds, or their numerous modern russian equivalents.
doesn't mean it is inherently structured around that.

[Anonymous No.6607690]

>>6607677
I'm on my 38th ban. I've witnessed at least two dozen people get gulaged in collateral damage.

Kek, as they say.

Any way, stop bothering /lit/. This isn't the first /lit/ raid and you know it.

[Anonymous No.6607698]

>>6607690
>implying i didn't come from /lit/ in the first place

This is now our recruiting center, fuck off

[Anonymous No.6607706]

>>6607684
>Nothing like what happened under the Puritans happened in Catholicism
ok you have never heard of the spanih inquisistion, or of the witch hunts in germany, apparently. Puritanism completely pales in comparison. Not that I like puritanism better than catholicism, from both an intellectual and aesthetic point of view, but damn, that shit is indisputable.
>doesn't mean it is inherently structured around that.
At least it seems to have the same potential for it as liberalism and puritanism. The main difference appears to be that orthodox haven't sublated their persecution impulse into smear campaigns: they'll still go after you with physical violence.

[Anonymous No.6608137]

>implying /lit/ isn't already the /leftypol/ of 4chan

[Anonymous No.6608576]

>socialism is dehumanizing utilitarian boredom
>capitalism is dehumanizing and inherently unfair
>anarchism is implausible and suffocating if properly isntituted
>hedonism is dissatisfying in the long run and carries the guilt of political ignorance and selfishness
>suicide is cheap, easy, erases your capacity for guilt, reduces you to what exists in people's good memories of you, relieves you of any further blame for the world's suffering, and you get to stay inside all day

[Anonymous No.6608721]

>>6608576
Not so fast! There is another answer!

[Anonymous No.6608730]

The individual is an illusion.

[Anonymous No.6608748]

>>6608730
gb2 india Siddhartha

[Anonymous No.6608972]

the best treatment of the individual is by D&G

bwo, a complex struggle of different competing desires we have to figure out.

[Anonymous No.6609113]

>>6608721
but that's just capitalism again, you petit bourgeois faggot

[Anonymous No.6609132]

>>6609113
yes i bet laissez faire libertarians love the idea of ultra-statism

[Anonymous No.6609328]

>>6607698
>This is now our recruiting center, fuck off
And you're gonna need it.

[Anonymous No.6610086]

>>6609328
>/cuteboys/ right next to /christian/

Hahaha oh wow.