[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 103 KB, 392x574, Gravitys_rainbow_cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6603905 No.6603905 [Reply] [Original]

I'm reading Gravity's Rainbow at the moment - rather arrogant of myself that the main curiosity was how difficult I heard it was - and I'm curious: if I'm struggling to understand it and piece together the events and to find the meaning of certain passages, is it recommended that I continue reading?

How was your experience with this behemoth?

>> No.6603931

There were passages that I loved re-reading over and over again because of how imaginative or intelligent they were. I also enjoyed a lot of the events and some of the characters I feel I understand are very interesting to read about, but there were certainly moments where the book went over my head for these extensively lengthy passages lasting multiple pages where I felt near to completely lost while reading it to the point where I zoned out at times.

Unless if you have an annotated copy of the book that understands it more than you do, you're probably not going to understand it all in your first reading, but I'd say keep reading because there's plenty of wonderful nuggets in the book that'll make you glad you discovered them.

>> No.6603941
File: 9 KB, 300x300, thOM1PSABQ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6603941

>>6603931
I see what you did there

>> No.6603943

>>6603905
Did you read V. first? Go back and do that if you haven't. It'll help.

>> No.6604151

Try to keep track of the plot on your first read, go back to find meaning in it all.

I took notes on my second read, and there's no question it helped, but it's not at all necessary to understanding the book.

>>6603941
I don't. What did he did?

>> No.6604169

>>6603905
I feel bad for people who don't understand memes.

>> No.6604176

>>6604151
>nuggets
>anon posted a nug

>> No.6604195

>>6604176
So "what [he] did there" was use a word with another connotation than he meant? That warrants a post?

>> No.6604223

Okay I'm going to mark myself a plebeian with this, but I use this resource whenever it gets a little too "metaphor intertwined with dialogue and second person narrative for pages at a time":

http://www.math.harvard.edu/~ctm/links/culture/rainbow.bell.html

It helps understand the basic "point" page by page, and doesn't ruin any of the beauty I don't think. If anyone claims to have no problem with some of the wordier passages I'd either be deeply impressed or skeptical of their legitimacy. The book is ridiculous. Beautiful and fun to read, but a kick in the pants. Don't feel bad for needing some explanatory assistance.

Good luck!

>> No.6604229

>>6604223
or just use the wiki

>> No.6604253

I read Lot 49 first so I knew what I was getting into, more or less, and I didn't worry too much if I didn't understand the "why," as long as I could follow the "what" and "how." It was massively fun, and the parts where I did understand some of the deeper ideas Pynchon was striking at were incredible.

I'm sure I caught less than half of what he was trying for, but the half I caught was extremely fun, much more fun than what you have to work similarly hard for (or harder) in Ulysses. I owe it to myself to read GR again sometime soon, but I want to finish Pynchon's corpus first, I have Vineland and Against the Day still left.

Anyway, OP, if you genuinely couldn't say what physically happened in the last ~30 pages you read, then it might be too advanced for you, come back when you've read more nonlinear literature. But if you're just struggling to figure out what it "means" when a man fights a giant adenoid...well, you're in the same boat as the rest of us.

>> No.6604294

>>6604253
> when a man fights a giant adenoid

Actually lol'd. Thanks for validating my confusion at that.

>> No.6605183

>>6603941
I don't see what I did, c'mon anon, not everything is a reference to something else

>> No.6605192

>>6604223
>>6604229
Will keep both of these in mind on my second read-through, thanks guys

>> No.6605222

>>6604253
The adenoid part I felt was actually simple - Pirate controls people's fantasies and the adenoid invasion of London was somebody's peculiar fantasy he was attempting to manipulate.

I struggled a bit more with Slothrop falling down the toilet and escapin' a rapin' but that made sense to me more when I thought of it as Slothrop under the Visitation's truth serum, trying to recall events from his past, but the serum leaving him a sedated state meant that he kept mis-remembering and misunderstanding shit that actually happened.

There's so many layers in this book that when I next re-visit it, I'm going to take notes on everything so I can understand it all.

>> No.6605259

>>6605222
The adenoid thing is literally just a pun on the dictator in The Dictator being called Adenoid.

>> No.6605290

>>6605259
Which "The Dictator"? Chaplin's or the one from 1935?

>> No.6605295

>>6605290
I meant The Great Dictator so Chaplin's

>> No.6605329

>>6604223
>>6604229

Or just be smart, and not a dumb cunt.

>> No.6605371

>>6605329
You don't need to be that smart. Just read up on shit like tarot, astrology, kabbalah, drugs, and read V. first. I already knew enough about those topics to understand what he was going for like 80% of it.

>> No.6605425

Are others in the same boat as me: that I can't read this book as frequently as I can others? Like, usually I can read about 150 pages a day or so but Gravity's Rainbow means after 50 pages in one sitting I really need a break.

>> No.6605431

>>6605425
Yes, dense literature is harder to read.

>> No.6605484

>>6605425
I feel ya, man. I thought it'd be worth reading over the summer as, y'know, summer break from college, and shit I struggle to get 20 pages read in one sitting. I need to put the book down, watch something light-hearted, get something to eat, and maybe I'll go back to it later in the day.

>> No.6605731

>>6605329
yeah, because you're just plain ignorant if you have to look up what the Kenosha kid is in reference to, or don't know going in what portions of the book are drawn from Pynchon's own family history, etc.

>> No.6605771

>>6603905
Pynchon was on drugs when he wrote most of it, he has stated that even he didn't understand what he was getting at most of the time when he reread it.

>> No.6605775

I highly recommend the use of supplementary material. The pynchon wiki + A Gravity's Rainbow Companion: Sources and Contexts for Pynchon's Novel are both great resources.

There's nothing shameful about taking some assistance when tackling GR.

>> No.6605818
File: 601 KB, 197x200, 1407557774262.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6605818

>>6605771
This is false and I wholeheartedly believe anyone who actually reads the book to its conclusion will find a sprawling, but complete plot with clear themes, meanings and indictments.

Of course there are bizarre passages, digressions, jokes and side stories. Not every detail has to play into the larger picture.

Personally one of the few passages that still confounds me is Pirate at the surreal ballroom party with Katje where everyone speaks cryptically and chews taffy. I'm fairly certain this is one of Pirate's borrowed dreams, but I do not know whose it might be or what it might mean. There is also extensive mention in that segment of people being double and triple agents and so on, which I don't -really- understand, outside of possibly Katje as she appeared to Blicero, but it's been a while since I've read the book and can't recall if Katje ever actually pretended to be on Blicero's side or was just an agent captured/planted as a sex slave.

>> No.6605831

>>6605818
dude he was high as fuck and if you dont think so, youre high too.

>> No.6605842

>>6605818
You really didn't understand that part after reading the rest? It was Pirate and Katje being recruited to the Counterforce, which is a metaphor for Counterculture and a reference to Newton's Third Law of motion.

>> No.6605847

>>6605775
I think I intend to read the book blind, without assistance, so I can try to understand it to the best of my own independent abilities (which won't be much) and then I plan on revisiting the book with some supplementary material as you had suggested.

>> No.6605866

I went to buy GR at a used bookstore. The owner looked at me with a small chuckle and said "you know what, you can just take that one for free".

He's complimented me on my taste before, but I wasn't sure if he was mocking me or what... I just need to read this fucking book already.

>> No.6605881

>>6605866
I wish I was given GR for free. What edition was it?

I assume he's just struggled to sell the book due to its infamy or he just likes you/your taste in literature.

>> No.6606544

>>6605866
It probably was something like no one buying it. Also describe the cover, I wanna know which edition you got.

>> No.6606763

Quick question:
Does Penguin Classics edition with the blueprint cover have any issues with it?
I tried to order a Vintage Classics copy, but the order got screwed up, and was wondering if it's necessary to return it.

>> No.6606773

>>6603905
I'm ~150 pages in. Reading very slowly. Maybe 10 pages/day.

>> No.6606779

>>6606763
Blueprint cover paperback is fine, same page count/content as the first edition as far as I know.

>> No.6606781

>>6606544
>>6605881
It's the one in the op, a hard cover, pages are all yellowed and a lot of them dog-eared

>> No.6606805

>>6606781
Seriously? He gave you the fucking first edition hardcover? Damn. You must be the fucker's favorite customer or something.

>> No.6606871
File: 49 KB, 408x694, grbantam.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6606871

>>6606544
what's with people caring about editions here? do some of them have major typos or something? i have pic related is that bad? are there like serious typos in it or something or is it just for the swag factor?

>> No.6606897
File: 1.43 MB, 1210x3613, 1430672411201.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6606897

>>6606871
Blueprint anon here.
All I know is that this image made me nervous.

>> No.6606906

>>6606871
A couple are really bad for various reasons. Most of them are fine. But the first edition is rare and expensive (probably not in a really used up condition like that guy's though) so it is a bit of a swag factor thing too I guess.

>> No.6607095

>>6605818

"On the writing of Gravity's Rainbow, Pynchon reportedly told Siegel, "I was so fucked up while I was writing it . . . that now I go back over some of those sequences and I can't figure out what I could have meant."

>> No.6607104

>>6607095
Because everything anyone ever says is 100% serious all the time.

>> No.6607129

>>6607104
because if something that I dont agree with is mentioned I have to call its validity into question because it conflicts my perception of the novel.

Grow up you fuckwit. Pynchon was high and a lot of it doesn't make sense. Dont be mad just because you wasted your time on a meme book.

>> No.6607135

>>6607129
>Grow up
As opposed to you whose mission in life is shitposting about said meme book that you don't like? Sure is summer here.

>> No.6607150

>>6607135
The novel is fine, people just take it way too seriously and place way too much emphasis on its meaning instead of just seeing it for what it is: A document of the drug use and paranoid culture surrounding the period in which it was written. If you want to understand the main themes of the novel you can find the important quotes organized on fucking goodreads.

>> No.6607174

>>6607150
If you honestly think there's no meaning to the book beyond the influence of drugs and paranoia, on the basis of that one quote, and don't see the problem with that train of thought, you should just stop reading, stop posting, and stop talking about things you've read altogether because you're just wasting your time and everyone else's.

>> No.6607180

>>6607095
>reportedly

>> No.6607202

>>6607174
>Muh meme book, nobody get's it but me, just stop reading pleb, you can't appreciate fine literature about people eating shit and falling down toilets like me.

Babbys mad the Pinch trolled them: The thread.

I'm not discrediting the work, or pynchon, I'm a fan of his writing, people just take gravitys rainbow way too seriously. He has stated a lot of it was drug addled ramblings he can't seem to understand anymore. Get the fuck over it. The guy has other books.

>> No.6607207

>>6607174
Do you also take books like Naked Lunch as seriously as GR? because that's essentially what GR is, a document written by a man on drugs with a few lucid and revealing passages.

>> No.6607238

>>6607174
There is obviously meaning, but the illuminating paragraphs are few and far between, the garbage in between obfuscates a lot of the content that is more lucid and concise, whether this is intentional and a part of the texts funtion to parallel the noise and static we deal with on day to day life, is up for debate. People become like Oed's from Tcol49 when they start reading too far into GR. It's fucking hilarious.

>> No.6607251

>>6607207

Naked Lunch is also a great book. Whether or not an artist took drugs shouldn't factor in to your potential enjoyment of something.

>> No.6607306

>>6607202
You're the only one who's mad though. Because you base all your thoughts about the book on one thing he "reportedly" said to someone about it and have a pathological need to feel like you're right to think about it this way. Seek help before you DFW.

>>6607238
Not really. There's a meaning to most, if not all of it, and it's not even usually that hard to see. If you find yourself not understanding a lot of it you're just not reading it right or lacking in some bit of background knowledge particular to that part to understand what's going on. There certainly are segments that are far more difficult to make sense of than the rest but those are far outnumbered by the ones that do make sense.

The exact opposite extreme of reading into it too deeply is taking on this reductionist attitude that most of it doesn't mean much becuz he wuz on acid lel. You don't have to obsess over it, but just because you couldn't figure it out doesn't mean there's nothing there to figure out. At that point all you're doing is making a sad attempt at salvaging your self-esteem.

>> No.6607485

>>6607306
>My sides

Fuck, have fun with life m8. Pull your thumb out of your arse, I'd love to hear your self indulgent analysis of the text.

>> No.6607495

you guys obviously Gravitys Rainbow is awesome and 1000x more meaningful because pynchon WAS whacked out on drugs while writing it. why are these things in conflict

>> No.6607854

> want to buy V and Crying Of Lot 49
> only editions available in the UK are the Where's Wally/Waldo covers

Am I eternally damned, /lit/? Is the print really that badly smudged to the extent where you can't read it or will I be fine?

>> No.6607898

ITT people that don't know how to read

lol at that one guy recommending to read quotes from goodread, what kind of sparknotes faggotry do you have in store for us next?

>> No.6607908

So, I don't get it, was Slothrop real?

>> No.6607912

I'd say if you're struggling don't bother. I read stuff like GR on trains because it gets my 100% attention. But if I were at home struggling with it, why would I want to keep pushing through? Seems like a waste of time.

>> No.6607978

>>6607912
Some people like being challenged and if they don't understand something, they're likely to research it to understand and appreciate what they've just read. I struggled with Gravity's Rainbow but I'm glad I did because it was filled with fascinating layers I wouldn't find in other author's works.

>> No.6608006

>>6606897
tbh i have the penguin deluxe and its not that bad, although certainly should be avoided vs. other editions if possible.

>> No.6608067

>>6603905
I've said this before, but again:
I had heard about Gravity's Rainbow for some time as this excellent, challenging book so full of references, etc. that it was hard to understand but funny.
I got a copy, sat down on a Friday evening and started.
I finished it Sunday evening and was completely non-plussed. I thought about it, assumed I must have missed something, and started it again Tuesday and took my time re-reading it.
I finished Friday with the same conclusion.

I found it boring, trite, unfunny, and cluttered, not complex. One of the biggest three disappointments of genre fiction I have encountered, the other two being The Stars my Destination (awful) and Dune (terrible).

>> No.6608073

>>6608067
you're a pompous fellow aren't you?

>> No.6608091

>>6608073
Why? For disagreeing with people?

>> No.6608094

>>6608091
I highly doubt you read the entire thing in just one weekend

>> No.6608108

>>6608091
nah, just your general tone

>> No.6608119

>>6608067
> One of the biggest three disappointments of genre fiction I have encountered

you went too far with that b8 m8 :(

>> No.6608135

>>6608094
It's under 800 pages....

>> No.6608144

>>6608119
Not bait.
It did not live up to the hype. Maybe it was over-hyped to me, but that is what happened.

>> No.6608147

>>6608144
what did you find so problematic with it?

>> No.6608159

>>6607854
MOTHERFUCKING BOOKDEPOSITORY YOU CUNT

>> No.6608165

>>6607854
http://www.bookdepository.com/V-Thomas-Pynchon/9780060930219

http://www.bookdepository.com/Crying-Lot-49-Thomas-Pynchon/9780060913076

Crying is on sale.

Thank me later.

>> No.6608182

>>6607898
>" people that don't know how to read"

Nigga learn 2 grammar you filthy pleb.

"People who", it's fucking "people who don't know how to read", which you clearly don't. I would also love to hear your thoughts and analysis of the text faggot.

>> No.6608198

>>6608182
only subhuman shitskins don't know how to read so it's technically correct

>> No.6608202

>>6607854
I have both Gravity's Rainbow and Lot in Waldo covers, the printing seems fine, they're just pretty ugly
It's what they had in local bookstores so I just bought them, seems fine

>> No.6608217

>>6608202
It's only the Wally V. that has the terrible text.

>> No.6608218

>>6608202
Lot49 of the waldo covers is fine, mine has perfect print and heaps of blank pages at the back for making notes.

>> No.6608222

>>6608217
Mason and Dixon too.

>> No.6608226

>>6608222
Oh alright then. I got the original Henry Holt & Company hardback. It's fucking huge.

>> No.6608252

I'm about 200 pages into the penguin deluxe. Should I stop and pick up the vintage edition or does it really matter that much? I'd rather not buy another copy. A few small errors don't bug me.

>> No.6608264

>>6608252
No worries dude. Just keep going.

>> No.6608287

>>6608147
I didn't think it was that complicated; just cluttered.
I found the humor juvenile.
That's all.

>> No.6608316

>>6608287
k

>> No.6608377

>>6608165
thanks, anon <3

>> No.6608382

>>6608159
wow
rude

>> No.6608400

>>6608382
>live in uk and not know how to buy books

>> No.6608430

>>6608400
I usually just use Amazon honestly, I didn't know of websites that specialised in selling books

>> No.6608435

>>6608430
Are you making a joke right now?

>> No.6608440

>>6608430
https://stallman.org/amazon.html

Read this.

>> No.6608448

>>6608440
>Stallman

no thanks

>> No.6608542

>>6603905

Got bored and bailed somewhere around page 50. Why isn't this book considered sci-fi?

>> No.6608560

>>6608542
Because it isn't. It's a World War II novel.

>> No.6608590

But it isn't. It's a sci-fi Cold War novel.

>> No.6609781

Just finished it. It really feels like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders

>> No.6609925

>>6609781
iktf. I had to read a bunch of short and easy novels and novellas after GR. I just unwound with a bunch of Brother Grimm stuff, some Lovecraft (imo a great but very easily accessible and immersive author) and Doyle's Sherlock Holmes which was basically the YA fiction of its day.

>> No.6610383

So Katje is a sex worker/double agent who has kinda been forced to manipulate Slothrop against his will, right?

>> No.6610419

>>6609925
>Doyle's Sherlock Holmes which was basically the YA fiction of its day.
thanks for confirming pynchon readers are retards

>> No.6611559

>>6610383
probably

>> No.6613477

>>6610419
> implying it isn't

How's your break from school?

>> No.6613809

>>6610419
He's right, though.