/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6584359]

"rap is poetry for morons"

>respond

[Anonymous No.6584360]

"philosophy is science for moron"

>respond

[Anonymous No.6584363]

applied mathematics is mathematics for morons

engineering is applied mathematics for morons

[Anonymous No.6584367]

>>6584360
you got that the strong way round son

[Anonymous No.6584396]

morons for poetry is rap

[Anonymous No.6584405]

>>6584367
>philosophy is science for morons
13,200,000 results
>science is philosophy for morons
440,000 results

[Anonymous No.6584407]

There might be some truth to this, I stopped wanting to listen to rap once I got into poetry. I still like some of the really good ones, but even the best rap feels elementary and shallow now.

[Anonymous No.6584414]

>>6584405
>muh masses

[Anonymous No.6584418]

>>6584407

[Anonymous No.6584421]

>>6584414
>muh classics

[Anonymous No.6584507]

RAP = RETARDS ATTEMPTING POETRY

[Anonymous No.6584524]

>>6584407
Funnily I had the opposite experience. Before I listened to rap I dismissed it as simplistic, dull and repetitive (like so many people claim), although I still considered it poetry. After listening to a lot of hip hop i've come to find there is a lot of talent and interesting stuff going on, even a "ignorant" rapper like Gucci Mane constantly creates new imagery to describe his drug dealing and so on - the levels of inventiveness truely are impressive.

[Anonymous No.6585332]

>>6584359
The overwhelming main topic of rap songs is how well the rapper raps and/or how much money and pussy they have. I'd say that about sums up the general artistic standard being upheld.

[Anonymous No.6585956]

>>6585332
>I listen to all music except rap and country

[Anonymous No.6585964]

/lit/ is /deepweb-lit/ for morons.

>respond

[Anonymous No.6585973]

>>6584421
How did anyone ever think like this? Didn't they ever try throwing a pebble and seeing how it doesn't just fall straight down when it runs out of rise?

[Anonymous No.6585976]

>>6584359
I'd like to see a classical poet or philosopher display the quick wit of a typical freestyle rapper.

[Anonymous No.6585977]

>>6584421
>yfw he had the idea of inertia before Newton did

[Anonymous No.6585979]

>>6584359
"4chan is a seminar class for moron"

>respond

[Anonymous No.6585982]

>>6584407
I hate 'complex' and 'deep' rappers tbh. They're annoying, just like bands who pride themselves on being very technical. They seem to intuitively adhere to the notion that harder to make means better art, which is pretty much the most shallow and plebeian opinion you can have, most often demonstrates with regard to the visual arts ("I could have painted that lol you call that art?").

[Anonymous No.6585989]

>>6585982
who's on you list of 'complex' and 'deep' rappers?

[Anonymous No.6585991]

>>6585989
He probably confused depth with complexity or depth with socially conscious content.

[Anonymous No.6586007]

>>6585989
Nas aesop rock Kendrick lupe(not lasers)

[Anonymous No.6586008]

>>6585989
ASAP Rocky

[Anonymous No.6586010]

>>6585332
As >>6584524 says regarding Gucci mane, it actually requires a lot of inventiveness to talk about the same shit over and over again.

Do you dismiss anything about love as well? Love is pretty trite subject matter. What about sadness or death or transience?

[Anonymous No.6586014]

>>6585973
>aristotle throws a pebble
>can't find it again

proofs

[Anonymous No.6586023]

>>6585989
Backpacker shit like Aesop Rock. Or worse, 'politically engaged' shit like Immortal Technique with a 'message'. Dead Prez is fun though.

[Anonymous No.6586024]

>>6584359
Well, no. Not as such. Rap is a way to communicate, a medium, if you want, which can be used in a number of different ways. Saying it's just a form of poetry rather simplifies matters. A few rappers attempt it, of course, and a small number of them (funnily, I imagine in the same percentage of actually "good" poets) actually succeed. Murubut, for instance. he's really, really good at oral poetic storytelling. Other rappers use it for different ends, in different ways. Assalti Frontali use the medium to talk about socio-political issues in a "catchy" way that lets them use metaphors and similes that they couldn't use if their message was written as a blog article.

[Anonymous No.6586025]

>>6584359
Rap is poetry. In the quotidian viewpoint, rap is even more poetic than, say, free verse, since rap supposedly rhymes and scans. There even may be a metrum.
Look, there is shit poetry and good poetry. What you're saying sounds like 'blank verse is better than poetry.' There exists a high art - art of the commons dichotomy, yes, true. However, that doesn't exclude rap from being a rythmic text.
I dislike rap

[Anonymous No.6586031]

>>6586023
>implying Aesop rock isn't a genius

[Anonymous No.6586033]

Hip-hop fag here. The genre is a shit art form for the most part; I listen mostly to technical rappers because English is not my native tongue so I can just zone out and enjoy the flow (yes, I can still understand the lyrics, but I don't pay attention to them that much). There are still a few rappers that I like to listen to for the content, but the category is limited, and justly so.
>>6585982 It's like you don't like looking at pic related even just for the beautiful imagery; not everything has to communicate a relevant, sincere message - sometimes, the senses must be indulged.

>>6585332
ayy lmao
At least try b8ing next time/listening to hip-hop (pro-tip:Kendrick Lamar's "good kid m.a.a.d. city", Jay-z "The Blueprint", older Nas, old Eminem and you can find a lot more; just stay away from Tyga, Nicki Minaj, The Game, new 50, Hopsin etc. (you must learn to sort the good ones)

>>6584524
>even an "ignorant" rapper like Gucci Mane constantly creates new imagery to describe his drug dealing and so on - the levels of inventiveness truly are impressive.
In case you were sincere, it's fucking boring m8. But I'd still listen to him, not because of the drug dealing theme itself, but because of the "bad ass black killer" vibe the songs give me. Sure, it's immature. Sure, it's stupid, but refer to my 1st paragraph.

fuck all y'all fuckers rap != poetry and it shall remain the same forever; HIP-HOP REQUIRES MUSICALITY, IT'S MUSIC FIRST AND MEANS OF EXPRESSION SECOND!!!

[Anonymous No.6586034]

>>6586023
I tend to agree about IT but he is out there like he says.

[Anonymous No.6586035]

>>6586031
Literally word salad the rapper

[Anonymous No.6586044]

>>6586033
the only people who like kendrick lamar are wiggers.

[Anonymous No.6586061]

>>6586031
Genius generally comes with the graceful air of effortless rather than the heavy stink of try-hard.

[Anonymous No.6586065]

>>6586033
>stay away from nicki

Wrong board, motherfucker.

[Anonymous No.6586076]

>>6586033
Kendrick Lamar is the worst good nigger points collector moral gimmick rapper since Will Smith.

[Anonymous No.6586077]

>>6586044
nobody actually believes this

kendrick can be heavy-handed, sure, but the man's a talented storyteller and is on par with the best as far as rapping "in character" you don't have to admire him, but if you know shit about rap then you'll at least respect him.

[Anonymous No.6586092]

I'M TURNING INTO A NIGGA THAT THINKS ABOUT MONEY AND WOMEN LIKE 24/7 THAT'S WHERE MY LIFE TOOK ME THAT'S JUST HOW SHIT HAPPENED TO GO

[Anonymous No.6586101]

A$AP ROCKY OVA ERRTHANG, DAT BOI FAMOUS LEIK MOZART. RIP TO A$AP YAMS, Y DO THA GUD 1S ALWAYZ DYE SO YUNG

[Anonymous No.6586111]

>>6584524
>Gucci Mane constantly creates new imagery

No he fucking doesn't.

[Anonymous No.6586117]

>>6586010
But rap isn't just repetitive in subject matter, it's repetitive in its musical format, its lyrical structure, the backstory of its MCs... So much of rap is built around cliches. So much. Shoutouts, slang, the pronunciation of particular words -- most rap music blogs and popular music analysts spend their time trying to identify the next big cliche, be it Drake's versace flow, Young Thug's autotuned nonsensical sing-rap, Chief Keef's apathetic hooliganism.
I think most of the "best" rappers, and by that I mean the most acclaimed and respected, are talented in their ability to absorb and present musical cliches, not in their actual ability to create and understand music. Kanye, Jay-Z, Kendrick, 2Pac, these guys didn't really compose unique music so much as they were able to repeatedly ride a cyclone of super-producers, social topicality, popular slang, and celebrity appeal in a cohesive and easily consumable way.

I do like rap and I occasionally listen to singles by Gucci Mane and the other big names in the Atlanta scene. But I don't respect it much as an artform past the initial visceral reaction I sometimes experience when hearing the very exciting Next Big Cliche for the first time. It's not a genre that's very rewarding to listen to over and over again. It's easily the laziest and most commercial genre in popular music right now. It's the kind of music that any bored seventeen year old could make in his bedroom, which is IMO both its appeal and its Achilles's heel.

[Anonymous No.6586118]

Important question lads:

Is Yung Lean sincere, ironic, post-ironic, or newly sincere?

[Anonymous No.6586120]

>>6586077
People who worship Kendrick Lamar are wiggers, hows that?

[Anonymous No.6586133]

>>6586118

he's a teenager

[Anonymous No.6586135]

>>6586033
>In case you were sincere, it's fucking boring m8. But I'd still listen to him, not because of the drug dealing theme itself, but because of the "bad ass black killer" vibe the songs give me. Sure, it's immature. Sure, it's stupid, but refer to my 1st paragraph.
Gucci mane has got to be one of the least boring rappers in the game considering his output. Fantastic ear for beat and has an unlimited amount of flows, and continually experiments with different forms of pitch modulation. No doubt you have to wade through some shit on every mixtape due to how prolific he is, but I can't remember the last time I heard one of his tapes that didn't have a single good and interesting song on it.

>>6586111
lol? I mean I don't really know what to say to that, it seems quite obvious to me if you actually listen to him.

[Anonymous No.6586136]

FREE MY NIGGA LIL BOOSIE HE DINDU NOTHING WRONG

[Anonymous No.6586141]

>tfw no one shows love to Big L

[Anonymous No.6586148]

>>6586141
Truly the Pynchon of 90s rap namedropping

[Anonymous No.6586152]

>>6586117
>it's repetitive in its musical format
Music in general follows the format of it's genre. If it changed to much from the typical sound it'd be its own genre

[Anonymous No.6586176]

>>6586117
Someone is creating those cliches though. Gucci Mane pretty much defines a (sub)genre for example.

I think your criticism applies to all forms of popular art though. Mainstream stuff is almost per definition formulaic.

[Anonymous No.6586208]

There's an aspect of rap that manipulates narrative and storytelling, like Ready to Die.In each individual track he uses different voices and dialogues and jokes, tracks which in themselves deal with the previously mentioned stereotypes (dealing drugs, using guns, having sex and getting high), but the album taken as a whole presents this tragic path from the decline of a community (Things Done Changed), to the desire to get the hell out of there and the attitude born from that (Gimme The Loot to Warning), to the happiness of success (Juicy). Then you have the eventual nihilism of Everyday Struggle which leaves the bravado of later tracks like Big Poppa with a bad taste in the mouth. Especially then when it comes to the final skit (he commits suicide).

There’s a dialectic going on here, tho I’m not sure Biggie ever read Hegel.

You talk about where you're from and whats going on around you. Just because Van Gogh chose to paint a pair of boring fucking boots doesnt mean he didnt bring a world to life in that painting.

[Anonymous No.6586610]

>>6584507
We got a pre-internet meme right here people, live and breathing.

[Anonymous No.6586791]

>>6586010
I'm supposed to consider love, sadness, death and transience to be on par with people boasting about their ability to rap?

[Anonymous No.6586801]

The saddest part is the constant theft of other people's music to ruin with their drivel.
These aren't true cover versions, because in virtually all cases the verses have been replaced with idiotic rapping. The problem is, it takes an actual musician to write music. You generally have to be able to play an instrument, know some chords, be able to sing, perhaps even be able to read and write music. These are qualifications the worst garage metal band around can fill, but certain other types of platinum-selling recording artists are utterly incapable of.

Classified's "Is Anybody Listening" uses Genesis' "No Reply At All"
Puff Daddy takes Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir" and makes "Come With Me"
Trick Daddy takes Ozzy Osbourne's "Crazy Train" and makes 'Let's Go"
Eminem takes Aerosmith's 'Dream On' and makes 'Sing For The Moment'
Jessica Simpson takes John Mellencamp's "jack and Diane" and makes "I Think I'm in Love"
Ton Loc takes Van Halen's "Jamie's Crying", and inserts it into his cover of Chip Taylor's "Wild Thing"
Cam'ron - Just Us [sampling Journey - Don't Stop Believin']
Cam'ron - I.B.E. [Journey - Any Way You Want It]
J.R. Writer - It's Magic [Pilot - Magic]
Diplomats - Built This City [Jefferson Starship - We Built This City on Rock&Roll]
Diplomats - U Oughta Know [Billy Joel - Movin' Out]
Diplomats - We Are the Champions [Queen - We Are the Champions]
Saigon - Ryders [Bon Jovi - Run Away]
Jay-Z's The "Takeover" samples "Five On One" by The Doors
2 Live Crew's "The F*ck Shop" uses The B52'S "Love Shack" Lyrics,Van Halen's "Ain't talking 'bout Love" guitar riff and Eddie Cochran's "Summer Time Blues" riff.
2 Live Crew's " Band in the U.S.A." uses Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the U.S.A." Lyrics And Music)
2 Live Crew's " All Day And All Of the Night" reworks The Kinks' song lyrics and riffs)
Vanilla Ice - "Ice,Ice Baby" uses Queen's Bass Riff From "Under Pressure"
M.I.A.'s "Paper Planes" samples The Clash song "Straight To Hell"
A Tribe Called Quest's "Can I kick" and Jay-Z's "22 Twos" both use Lou Reed's "Walk on the Wild Side".
Walk This Way by Run DMC (Walk this Way by Aerosmith)
It's Tricky by Run DMC (My Cherona)
Kid Rock's "American Bad Ass" uses Metallica's "Sad But True"music
Kid Rock's "All Summer Long" uses "Werewolves of London" by Warren Zevon
German rapper Bushido uses the melody of Dimmu Borgir's song 'Mourning Palace'
Run DMC’s song “It’s Tricky” uses The Knack ’s “My Sharona”
Obie Trice's "Wanna Know" usesf "It Couldn't Be" by Power Of Zeus
"Hip-Hop Is Dead" by Nas and "Twilight Zone" by Lupe Fiasco sample " In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" by Iron Butterfly.
"Playing With Fire" by Lil Wayne samples "Play With Fire" by The Rolling Stones.
"Best Rapper Alive" by Lil Wayne samples "Fear of The Dark" by Iron Maiden.
"Stop Waiting On The World To Change" by Asher Roth samples "Waiting On The World To Change" by John Mayer

[Anonymous No.6586805]

"Blinded By The Light" by Rosco samples "Blinded By The Light" by Manfred Mann's Earth Band.
"Slow Ride" by The Beastie Boys samples "Low Rider" by War
"She's Crafty" by The Beastie Boys samples "The Ocean" by Led Zeppelin.
"ILLY" by MC Chris samples "TNT" by AC/DC
"Mr. Raven" by MC Lars samples "Okay I Believe You, But My Tommy Gun Don't" by Brand New
"Walk This Way" by Run-DMC samples "Walk This Way" by Aerosmith.
"Pump It" by The Black Eyed Peas samples "Misirlou" by Dick Dale & The Dell-Tones
"This Means War" by Busta Rhymes samples "Iron Man" by Black Sabbath.
"Help" by Lil Wayne samples "Help" by The Beatles
Lil' Jon and The Eastside Boyz "Stop Fuckin' Wit Me" uses Slayer's "Mandatory Suicide" and "Raining Blood"
Puff Daddy and Faith Evans' "I'll Be Missing You" uses The Police's "Every Breath You Take"
2Pac's "California Love" uses Joe Cocker's "Woman to Woman"
Nas's "Thiefs Theme" and "Hip Hop is Dead" use iron Butterfly's "In-a-gadda-da-vida"
Public Enemy's "She Watch Channel Zero" uses Slayer's "Angel Of Death"
Phil Collin's "In The Air Tonight" has been used by many artists, including Sean Kingston, Tupac, Lil' Kim, Cuban Link, DMX, and Nas.
Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby" samples the bassline of "Under Pressure" by Queen and David Bowie
Project Pat's "Posse Song" uses Marilyn Manson's "Coma Black"
Three 6 Mafia "Shut Ya Mouth Bitch" uses Cradle of Filth's "From The Cradle To Enslave"
Three 6 Mafia "Smoke Dat Weed" uses Linkin Park's "In The End"
Three 6 Mafia "Gone Be Sum Shit" uses Metallica's "The Unforgiven" (the recording used is Apocalyptica's cover)
Three 6 Mafia "U See We Poe" uses Cradle of Filth's "No Time To Cry"
The Beastie Boys.. where to start:
Rhymin & Stealin - Contains samples from "Sweet Leaf" by Black Sabbath, "When the Levee Breaks" by Led Zeppelin, & "I Fought the Law" by The Clash
She's Crafty - Contains samples from "The Ocean" by Led Zeppelin
Slow Ride - Contains samples from "Low Rider" by War
Led Zeppelin's "When The Levee Breaks" has been sampled/used by dozens of artists.
Sheek Louch's "How I Love You" uses Queen's "Save Me"
Coolio's "Gangsta's Paradise" uses Stevie Wonder's "Pastime Paradise"

..and so on, and on and on. Try to name a memorable rap song that uses an original riff or melody. Tell me that "digging and mixing" is just as hard and creative as learning the guitar and writing riffs, that a dj is exactly the same as a songwriter. Remind me that the rockers borrowed riffs and melodic lines from each other, from the blues, from traditional music. Explain why it doesn't matter that a whole generation is getting mostly watered-down ripoffs and pastiches of songs they're too young to have heard the originals of, that muscianship and ability to play instruments is not important. I've heard it all. Some rappers do great work, but most of them, especially the most popular ones, are not just shitty, they're not musicians at all.

[Anonymous No.6586821]

>>6586791
>vitalism and will to power
>not worthwhile listening material

rap is the most nietzschean genre.

[Anonymous No.6586827]

>>6586801
>>6586805
>implying sampling or theft of songs only happens in hip hop
stay assblasted

[Anonymous No.6586831]

>>6586827
Good job not reading there.

[Anonymous No.6586832]

>>6586801
Now post a list of every single originally produced beat

[Anonymous No.6586845]

>>6586141
>tfw NO ONE shows love to digable planets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jGfdU5vSrk

[Anonymous No.6586850]

>>6586033
>Hip-hop fag here. The genre is a shit art form for the most part

stopped reading there

[Anonymous No.6586872]

>>6586845
lovin' this
thanks babe
<3

[Anonymous No.6586888]

>>6586805
A huge part of hip-hop is based around sampling.

[Anonymous No.6586897]

>>6586801
>>6586805
It's called postmodernism, gramps.

[Anonymous No.6587089]

>>6586805
Most of the really great producers can do both very well. Madlib's a great example, he's one of (if not, the best) at "digging and mixing" but he also has a plethora of traditional jazz bands, most of which are comprised entirely of himself (under the guise of various aliases). J Dilla, Count Bass D, Black Milk, the Beastie Boys (whom you just decried although they were a hardcore band before their rap days and went on to play jazz-funk throughout their career) and tons of other producers (even Tyler the Creator) have backgrounds in traditional musicianship. Sure there is lazy sampling, but to dismiss the whole of sampling as "drivel" is hilariously ignorant.

Speaking of ignorance, your post reeks of pasta and b8 that I may have just fallen for.

[Anonymous No.6587116]

>>6586117
Mc Ride tho...

[Anonymous No.6587135]

>>6586152
Genres are descriptive, not prescriptive.

[Anonymous No.6587139]

>>6586117
Nah Kanye West was in his own lane and set trends for most of his albums leading up to MBDTF

[Anonymous No.6587151]

>>6587139
If by 'set' you mean popularized, then yes.

[Anonymous No.6587184]

>>6586897
It's not even part of post-modernism, taking musical and/or lyrical aspects of older songs and using them for your own artistic purposes is a part of the folk music tradition. It goes back probably to the dawn of human civilization.

[Ghost Motel No.6587237]

>>6587135
there's no rock without drums