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/lit/ - Literature

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6542357 No.6542357 [Reply] [Original]

What was she, guys?

>> No.6542369

>>6542357
A woman obsessed with decadence to the point of transforming herself into an inanimate object. You could consider her a metaphor for the effects of industrialization and modernization.

>> No.6542438

>>6542357
a person

>> No.6542454

>>6542438
You win the internet xD

>> No.6542477

what was the significance of the rainbow monkey and tunnels in antarctica?

>> No.6542485

>>6542477
Vheissu was the first incarnation of a sort of madness stemming from how far reaching the "conspiracy" of the inanimate was. Even in seemingly "virgin" untouched places like Vhiessu and Antarctica, the influence of the inanimate was thought to have been seen.

>> No.6542606

What I got was that she was a woman that developed a talent for espionage.

What I don't get is how she made the leap to inanimacy. Chapters with her perspective describes her desire to be "Christ's bride", so where did the obsession with replacing her body parts come from? Same play that her love from the ballerina came from.

Also, what was the whole deal with the story of Mara in the epilogue? My guess was that it tied in the theme of sexuality the book had, but I only noticed this by thinking back and the odd mentions of Venus, Aphrodite, and Astarte.

>> No.6542616

>>6542606
>>6542485
>>6542357

A shit fucking novel for illiterate children

>> No.6542621

>>6542606
Also, what was the deal with the crucifex comb?

>> No.6542625

>>6542616
Here's your reply

>> No.6542643

Is there anything like ottosell's GR episode guide for V?

>> No.6542817

The 20th century.

>> No.6542823

fuck, I got the where's waldo cover for this book not heading the warning of the bad, smeary print

i'm only on page 20 (which is really like page 11) and my eyes are already strained. shit is actually terrible to read

>> No.6542913

>>6542823
So you knew and you didn't listen? I got the Harper-Perennial one.

>> No.6542926

>>6542913
The superior copy.

The pages are so crisp.

>> No.6542956

>>6542913
I blind bought one on amazon for $0.01 and $3 shipping. worth it, I'd say, but confirming the print is fucked

>> No.6542985

>>6542956
>on amazon for [$3.01]
>worth it, I'd say

>[3.01 USD for a book you cannot read without straining your eyes, when you could have got a free pdf]
>worth it

>> No.6543027
File: 1.16 MB, 3072x1728, WP_20150505_14_55_28_Pro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6543027

>>6542823
I tried to warn you. Multiple times.

>> No.6543087
File: 80 KB, 499x499, 1430750255143.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6543087

>>6542985
>USD
I don't think so pal

>> No.6543114

>>6543027
What's wrong with that text?

>> No.6543134

>>6543114
Your eyes.

>> No.6543491

After reading the book, I read an essay comparing the central motifs of V. to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. Things began to make a lot more sense.

If you're interested - http://cultural-discourse.com/on-thomas-pynchons-first-novel-v/

>> No.6543549

>>6542357
a lot of things. in the end, the V-2

>> No.6543654

>>6542357
V is the intersection between the animate and inanimate worlds

>Venus being born from foam
>mountains of Vheissu described as being alive with shifting colours
>Victoria replacing her body parts with objects
>the two halfs of V. (the novel itself) the inanimate past and the animate present which come closer together and meet at the end
>The v-2 in GR

>> No.6543868

>>6543654
Also Benny's struggles with the inanimate and his "conversations" with that crash test dummy thing.

>> No.6543942

>>6542357
starting my first Pinecone next time I run to my library. Is V. an appropriate place to start or should I just go CoL49?

>> No.6543948

>>6543942
Either one's fine as the first. Though if you want to go to Gravity's Rainbow right after I'd suggest V.

>> No.6543952

>>6543948
perfect, that was my intention. thanks anonymous

>> No.6543956

>>6543942
Does it even have them though? The last library I went to only had Inherent Vice and Bleeding Edge.

>> No.6543960
File: 1.43 MB, 1210x3613, Tommy P.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6543960

>>6543952
Please read V. before Gravity's Rainbow.

>> No.6544131

>>6543956
yeah. they have GR, IV, Col49, V., Vineland, and 4 copies of Bleeding Edge

>>6543960
based chartposter

>> No.6544151

>>6543960
For some reason no store in my area has V.
Should probably just order from Amazon
Why did I buy Inherent Vice and Vineland without reading Gravity's Rainbow first? Why did I buy Vineland at all

>> No.6544174

>>6544151
Inherent Vice is fun anyway. Not the most thoughtful Pinecone but whatever. Vineland you fucked up with though, that's only for the most hardcore Pineconeheads who have to read absolutely everything he ever put out.

>> No.6544190

>>6544131
Dayum...

Does /lit/ run that library or something? You'll know I'm onto something if you see several copies of Ulysses and Infinite Jest there too.

>> No.6544406

>>6544190
It's the Newton Public Library. Since it's where Boston's jewish elite rents their books, it's really expansive and well-stocked.

>Does /lit/ run that library or something?
while Ulysses and IJ are definitely there (Pale King might be as well :^) ), there's no Tao Lin.

>> No.6544457

>>6544151
Buy this version and no other.

http://www.bookdepository.com/V-Thomas-Pynchon/9780060930219

For your own sake, avoid Vintage printings of V.

>> No.6544468

>>6543960
Why is there an upside down image of a badger on the chart?

>> No.6544551

Why was young Godolphin waving feminine and crying when old Stencil left Malta?

>> No.6544569

>>6544190
If you weren't retarded and hell bent on le xD shitposting every second of your life you would probably know the overwhelming majority of books posted and discussed here are in no way obscure.

>> No.6544724

>book theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5GCn1BKkxg

>> No.6544726

>>6544569
No, friendo. You seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying. Which is that the average shitty library doesn't have a lot of books even if they're well known, well regarded classics.

>> No.6544832

>>6542985
>pdf

>> No.6544848

>>6544726
If your library doesn't have Ulysess you must live in a third world country.

>> No.6544857

>>6544151
Vineland is great

>> No.6545018

just finished chapter 1, what the heck was going on in that bus station scene?

how did rachel know he would be there, it was all a little surreal - was he in fact dreaming it?

>> No.6545048

>>6543087
>not being American

It's like...why the fuck do you even live?

I visited Europe last Summer and all I could think about while walking through the streets of so many cities in so many countries was....these people must hate themselves. They aren't apart of the modern, the real, the important. They are the remnants of failures, of past troglodytes, and they are all born pessimists who hate America because they can never be American.

What fucking losers. I could only imagine how Russians or Aussies feel, especially Aussies. They were such shit fucks that even the Brits didn't want them. They are less than excrement. Can you imagine how it would feel to be so worthless?

>> No.6545056

>>6544857
What's wrong with it, is it not fun? worse than slow learner?

>> No.6545080

>>6545018
>>6545018
also - how can it be new years on the phone where rachel is when the previous night was new years for benny?

>> No.6545094

>>6545048
Europeans have all the reasons in the world to live. We have a rich cultural history and legacy. There are a whole lot of interesting things going on outside the US. Your comment only displays your own ignorant arrogance.

If you belittle other cultures, you should expect to be confronted. The biggest reason why Europeans tend to dislike stereotypical Americans is their distasteful cultural arrogance. The US is a culturally confused country under the spell of the corporate state religion. Their cultural foundation is a schizophrenic mish-mash of European and Christian values built on stolen land.

>> No.6545123

>coen brothers will never do a partial adaptation of V. covering exclusively Profane's life, loves and yo-yo'ing

>> No.6545213

>>6545094
>conquered land
>stolen land
Lol pick one friend.

>> No.6545253

>>6545123
>exclusively Profane's life
There story would lose so much without Stencil's plot though

>> No.6545302

>>6545018
anyone? please?

>> No.6545338

>>6545094
>stolen land.

kek

>> No.6545583

Wow, that description of The Whole Sick Crew sounds an awful lot like /lit/ ...

>> No.6545602

>>6545583
I'd chill with The Whole Sick Crew tbh

>> No.6545606

>>6545583
>50s quasi-intellectual hipster dilettantes sound an awful lot like 10's quasi-intellectual hipster dilettantes

The WSC was kind of beatnik-ish. If it were in the 1890s, they'd be dandyish, and so on.

This kind of educated bohemian youth is a sort of staple to capitalism, you should know that by now.

>> No.6545668

>>6545606
Nah but they aren't even real beats. They're too lazy and untalented to be.

>> No.6546292
File: 38 KB, 879x146, nutted in a shell.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6546292

>>6545583

>> No.6546585

>>6544848
It does but only one really old shitty copy.

>> No.6546595

>>6545668
Most real beats, or members of any "artistic" movement and/or community ever are lazy and untalented. It's just that when people think of any "movement" as a whole they tend to actually be thinking about the 1% of it that actually contributes.

>> No.6546604

>>6542357

Nothing. She gave meaning to the character's lives, but ultimately it doesn't really matter what she was. Unknowable perhaps.

>> No.6546608

>>6542823

I've got a Waldo copy of Gravity's Rainbow and it's fine.

>> No.6546621

>>6542913
>>6542926
Harper-Perennial is god-tier. Got the HP V. and Lot 49. Shame they didn't do GR as well, so I had to import a British GR from Vintage to avoid that typo or whatever in the Penguin version

>> No.6546631

>>6543549
>in the end, the V-2
Wait. Is this accurate?

BRAVO PINECONE

>> No.6546642

>>6545253
>>6545123
If it's only about Profane, it wouldn't make sense to even call the film "V."

Plus, I think PTA did a good job with IV, despite cutting half the book, so if anything he should do more.

>tfw no Lynch-directed Crying of Lot 49
I think I've mostly grown out of Lynch some years back, but I feel the man can pull off Oedipa's paranoia pretty well

>> No.6546665

So is Vineland actually "bad" or is it just "not as good as his other stuff"? I've read his first three novels and Inherent Vice. I loved V. and GR, really enjoyed Lot 49 but it was shorter than I wanted it to be, and IV was a really fun read but felt so different from the others, especially since I started it the day after I finished GR.

For that matter, how is Bleeding Edge? I flipped through a copy at a Books-A-Million once (didn't choose to buy it because bookstores have shit prices), and the "Hideo Kojima, or as we call him at my pad, 'God'" thing made me angrier than I thought possible. Is it actually 300 pages of an out-of-touch old stoner trying to be Stephenson, or is he making fun of NCIS and shit like that? I hope it's the latter, considering he actually knew shit about math and computers in the fucking 70s

>> No.6546674

>>6546631
In a way. It's that the "spirit" of the inanimate death-culture was culminated with the V-2, but since Mondaugen joined up with that company who started using the technology for toys and other things, it went even further beyond that. The V-2 was just the last incarnation that was easily pinned down.

>> No.6546701

>>6546665
I haven't read vineland but even before I heard about its reputation it seemed pretty lame to me when I flipped through a bit of it.

I'm about 100 pages into Bleeding Edge now after reading V. and Gravity's Rainbow. It's not particularly deep or anything but it is entertaining enough. There are loads of namedropped 1990s and early 2000s nerd pop-culture references and a whole lot of them don't mean anything.

There are a couple of ways that could be interpreted, depending on how optimistic you are. You could either say that Pinecone's been stoned off his gourd since the 00s so he was talking about things he enjoyed when he was sitting on his couch being high. Or you could think of it as some sort of statement about how 21st century pop-culture is all about vapid references to other things, which in turn also contain their own references to other things, and so on and so forth without any of it meaning shit.

Personally I think it's a little of both.

>> No.6546711
File: 418 KB, 615x338, lewdestslut.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6546711

>tfw thought of V. the entire last few episodes of Date A Live
>tfw no Pynchon-inspired Chinese cartoons

>> No.6546718

>>6546701
Honestly, I think the man's been stoned off his gourd since the 60s, but maybe that's not so important. I am really into the quasi-cyberpunk aesthetic of late 90s scifi, and I'm a faggot who enjoys vaporwave and bubblegum bass, so I should be able to enjoy BE regardless of whether it's sincere, ironic, or post-ironic, I guess. I do plan to read M&D and AtD first, and I may as well read Vineland (since it's not too long and I can get it for cheap)

>> No.6546730

>>6546718
Yeah, he most likely has been stoned for most of his adult life when you think about it. It's just that the effects are more apparent now that he's pushing 80. Bleeding Edge is fun. Just don't take it too seriously or expect anything mindblowing or life-changing out of it.

>> No.6546734

>>6546730
Well that's more or less what I thought of Inherent Vice, so I'll certainly pick it up soon.

I just hope the man can put out another epic before he passes, but I guess he doesn't need to, since his legacy is already great enough

>> No.6546782

>>6543491
Just read this essay. I found more alike with Terence McKenna's Food of the Gods, which is more or less about how doing copious amounts of shrooms and weed can bring the world back to the utopia of the pre-monotheism world, back to cults based on Mother Goddesses. McKenna's book was all about how the industrial West and it's associated dominator culture are shit, which is similar to that essay's (and V.'s) similar sentiments. Fun stuff

>> No.6546848

>>6546782
V.'s not quite that simple. Although Pinecone laments the culture shift to a certain extent, he also shows that the horror of the inanimate was always there, lurking just beneath the surface, waiting to be found. That and despite his fondness for the decadent drugging, drinking, and fucking party lifestyle, a significant portion of V. was about how ill-prepared it leaves people to deal with real life once the party's over.

>> No.6546871

Vineland is fun. Interesting struture, kind of like inherent vice but less complicated and funny, more cartoonish throughout as a whole instead. I think he did something pretty interesting with it all at the end but maybe I'm overreaching. I don't think so, though.

>> No.6547086

Does this book really make a central argument in regards to inanimacy?

>> No.6547096

>>6545668
Most beats (99%) were junky losers throwing paint on a canvas and calling it 'art'.

Just so happened their 60's counterparts, the hippies, were 100% worthless.

>> No.6547098

>>6546621
My GR is a 1987 Penguin publication. First paperback copy of GR I think. 100% complete copy of the hardback. Same cover, same page numbers, word for word a direct clone. Is dope.

>> No.6547101

>>6547086
Something like that, except that it's finding a purpose, a meaning, a drive in the face of complete inanimacy. But, it's not a bad thing, or some crazy revelation. Just the fact that anyone who does anything is doing it for the same seemingly useless, empty, hollow reasoning as someone chasing nothing at all.

>> No.6547111

>>6547098
Is there any difference between that one and the 1995 penguin paperback (blueprint cover)? Other than the cover of course. They both apparently have the same page count.

Also apparently viking released the first paperback before the hardcover in '73.

>> No.6547125

>>6546718
Bleeding Edge was really underwhelming to me. I think it's Pynchon's worst by a lot. Feels like second rate William Gibson for the majority of its length. We're talking badly written.

Also something just occurred to me, do how do you guys think Pynchon liked the Inherent Vice film? Do you think he saw it in theatres?

>> No.6547364

>>6547111
>Is there any difference between that one and the 1995 penguin paperback (blueprint cover)?
no

>> No.6547386

>>6542357
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=finding+kenneth+kupsch
The slow slide of man's religious fervor from the mystical to the scientific, and the impossibility of reaching a definitive explanation through either.

>> No.6548555

>>6547098
How much did you pay for it? Everywhere online wants more than $100.

>> No.6548597

So was Foppl really Evan Godolphin or was Mondaugen's account as told by Stencil to Eigenvalue unreliable?

>> No.6548780

>>6547386
Anyone I can find the full essay for free?

>> No.6548794

>>6548597
>So was Foppl really Evan Godolphin
That's not the impression I got. Wasn't old Godolphin delirious and thought Mondaugen was Evan?

>was Mondaugen's account as told by Stencil to Eigenvalue unreliable?
It was "Stencilized". Take that as you will.

>> No.6549212 [DELETED] 

Seriously, please I'm still chapter 4 and my only confusion is with rachel at the bus depot in chapter 1

>> No.6549215

>>6548555
not that guy but if you just look in thrift stores long enough you'll find one. i have a paperback with the first edition cover that i got at goodwill for like 3$.

>> No.6550181

Anyone care to summarize Chapter 3 for me? I'm retarded.

>> No.6550341

>>6548794
It's been a few months since I read it but from what I recall "Vera"/Victoria convinced Godolphin Sr. that Foppl was Evan and had been brainwashed by Von Trotha or something.

The part where it gets confusing is where Eigenvalue is listening to Stencil recounting Mondaugen's condition and mixing the "dream" segments about 1904 in with that which makes it unclear who actually experienced what. I don't think Mondaugen was the soldier in those sudwest afrika dream sequences since his background seemed to be in engineering only and whoever that was clearly had training as a soldier.

The "Stencilization" in that segment is more extreme than in the other parts because you can usually tell who's doing what and whose perspective is supposed to be being shown (also through Stencil, but still) at the time.

>> No.6550584
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6550584

>>6550181
Basically why did Bongo kill Porpentine?

Was it a politcal WW1 thing?
And what was with Bongo's switch? Was he really a robotic man? The inanimate I guess?

>> No.6550602

>>6550584
From what I recall they were both spies but Bongo ended up being a double agent or something. Also that part takes place in the late 1800s so it was too early for WWI.

>> No.6550607

>>6550602
Seemed to me like some sort of pre-war tensions, like the anarchist Yusef was noting at the party.

Anyways, he's a double agent, but for whom, and killing for what reason? Chapter was just so confusing for me.

>> No.6550635

>>6550607
There are definitely a lot of blanks but I think that was intentional. You're not supposed to be clear on everything going on.

But also pinecone supposedly based the political goings-on in that segment on Karl Baedeker's 1899 travel guide for Egypt, so if you could track that down and read it you'd probably have a better idea of what he was referencing with the politics.

>> No.6550643

>>6550635
Guess I'll just roll with it for now. I know Pynchon doesn't write like most authors, but if there are really blanks that big here I almost have to question why the chapter is even included. Maybe it'll clear up later.

>> No.6550653

>>6550643
It's included because of the connection to the V. that Stencil's looking for and the fact that Stencil's dad was friends with Porpentine at some point. If you go back to it with the rest of the book in mind certain parts begin to make more sense, but it's the most disjointed of the Stencil chapters and ends in a confusing way.

>> No.6550669

>>6550653
>It's included because of the connection to the V. that Stencil's looking for

Is that Victoria?

>> No.6550671

>>6550602
>>6550607
Isn't that part the one that's actually a tweaked version of one of pinecone's early short stories?

>> No.6550673

>>6550669
As it turns out, it's a lot of things. You're supposed to be kept guessing for most of the book.

>> No.6550678

>>6550671
Yeah.

>> No.6550692

>>6550673
Yeah, so I figured. I went into this book pretty much knowing the question of V. wouldn't be answered in any conventional way.

>> No.6550717

>>6550692
It does and it doesn't. When it comes to the person he was looking for, who that is isn't really all that difficult to determine. But the ambiguity comes from questioning what the state of being "V.", whichever of the V.'s is being discussed at the moment, ultimately represents.

>> No.6550730

>>6550717
There's also the question of what Stencil's search for V. really means, and how Benny and the crew tie into the whole thing.

>> No.6550747

>>6550730
its the v of life benny, aimlessness on one peak, stencil, obsession on the other, and in the middle is mclintoc sphere, keepin cool but carin

>> No.6550790

>>6550747
Sphere isn't in the V. itself. He's the period at the end of it. Pig is more of a midpoint between Benny and Stencil.

>> No.6550894

Is Rachel the epitome of the animate? Or is her love for the MG, the inanimate, a bad thing?

>> No.6550935

>>6550894
>animate
>anima
Yeah, sure why not. She was the most archetypal (in the Jungian sense) woman in the book.

>> No.6550959
File: 1.92 MB, 2448x3264, GR.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6550959

>>6547111
Ah, I meant penguins first paperback specifically. I'm not sure, I haven't seen the blueprint cover but I also haven't heard anything negative about it. It might not be a perfect copy as in same amount of pages and shit, but again, no one has complained.

>>6548555
I got it brand new almost off a guy selling it on ebay for $15 last September. It was pretty fucking lucky to say so myself, personally because I didn't want any of the bullshit ones, and because it's word for word, page for page.

>> No.6550964

>>6550341
Mondaugen was the soldier recounting the stories of all the horrible shit he witnessed while suffering a fever.

>> No.6550970

>>6550959
I looked through an index that lists page counts for all the editions, I know you meant penguin's version of the one with the original cover, not viking's earlier paperback that also looks similar. That listing has the one you're talking about as having the same page count as the blueprint cover and the earlier viking ones.

>> No.6550975
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6550975

>>6550959
>that /lit/core

>> No.6550980

>>6550964
Was he really? He didn't seem to be very "soldier-like" in general. Also the narration mentions how Stencil's recounting of the story got blurry about who was actually experiencing those things at that point.

>> No.6552482

>>6550959
>library I work at had this edition
>they took it out of circulation and replaced it with "your task in these dreams is often to pens."

>> No.6552499

>>6552482
Well, in their defense paperbacks get mauled very easily at libraries. It's not their fault that the only affordable hardcover happens to be shite.

>> No.6554084

>>6550975
>/lit/core is a thing
stop

>> No.6554796

just at the part where stencil got shot, sort of confused, i'm assuming it was profane that shot him but I don't really get how. should I just keep readijng?

>> No.6554820

>>6554796
? I don't remember this at all, you sure it's not his father or a reconstruction getting mingled in?

>> No.6554832

>>6554820
he gets shot in the sewer tracking v., veronica the rat while benny was tracking an albino alligator in the same area,

i just don't get where along the way he got shot and whether to reread both passages or just keep reading on

always hard to tell with pynchon whether something is confusing because you're confused or confusing because it's meant to be

>> No.6554850

>>6554832
It was a ricochet from what I recall.

>> No.6554858

>>6554850
just sort of implied though, right?

at first I was thinking stencil might have been in an alligator costume..

>> No.6555454

>>6554858
It's never clarified. But Profane mentions the risk of ricochet, and Stencil was investigating Fairing's Parish, the same place Profane was chasing that alligator.

>> No.6555598

>>6555454
makes sense, on rereading i think its pretty obvious he was the secondary light source in the room where profane corners the alligator, because the light goes out after he fires

>> No.6557226

do you guys think Stencil found anything in Sweden?

>> No.6557382

Can we discuss the potential overlap between V and Gravity's Rainbow, whether or not the V-2 can be considered V?