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6526862 No.6526862 [Reply] [Original]

Or is it a man's responsibility to choose less harmful vices and minimize the damage done?

>> No.6526868

Everything is your responsibility.

>> No.6526869

What is a vice?

>> No.6526878
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6526878

>>6526868

>> No.6526896

>>6526878
Is that a Christmas light ?

>> No.6526905

>>6526868
Everyone has their idignation; this is the correct answer.

>> No.6526936

>>6526878
oh, fuck off. I can already feel my eyes rolling at her dumb interests and banal conversational topics. go find another english major and name your daughter "holly" you BIG DOPE

>> No.6526937

>>6526869
Something one indulges in for pleasure that is not necessary to life and can only be harmful in the longterm.

Can range from the obvious drugs and deviant sex, to anger, antisocial behaviour, shopping for/collecting books, gossip, sweets, whatever you crave to do but know you shouldn't. Is it possible to defeat those urges through strong will and spiritual sacrifice, or is it something one must learn to deal with and control?

>> No.6526947

>>6526878
>dat subaru in the driveway

boner gone.

>> No.6526953
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6526953

virtue/vice is the false dichotomy of plebeians.

might is right.

>> No.6526970

>>6526953
irrelevant, as the issue isn't that vices offend others but rather that they are detrimental to one's own longterm survival.

>> No.6526981

>>6526878
Who is this cum nugget?

>> No.6526989

>>6526937
It's about will and sacrifice. Self-discipline, or more broadly, self-mastery is the highest priority of life. You can't be a master of others and or of material if you aren't the master of yourself.

>> No.6526991

>>6526953
Might to what end?

>> No.6526992

>>6526989
The question is, is there such a thing as total self mastery, or must one have to choose an outlet sooner or later?

>> No.6527015

>>6526992
If the suppression of a desire leads to long term suffering then there must be an outlet. It's not so much about not participating in vices but prioritizing long term pleasure over short term pleasure. Think about it like that rather than virtues and vices. It's a giant balancing act.

>> No.6527019

>>6526953

>might is right.

Is that why you enjoy watching bigger, stronger men lay the pipe on your girlfriend?

>> No.6527020

>>6526970
A lot of things generally considered vices are beneficial to one's own long term survival.

Your definition seems more like a pragmatic notion of 'bad habits'.

Would you consider lying a vice?

>> No.6527034

>>6526991
To whichever end the mighty pleases, of course.

>>6527019
>le cuck meme

Nice.

>> No.6527040

>>6527015
But when is the time to enjoy long term rewards? Through a life of pure virtue, one can put off indulgence indefinitely, as we were encouraged in America not so long ago. It used to be that our only reward was either in heaven, or a better life for our children. Is puritanism the only way?

>>6527020
No, unless one lies pathologically to satisfy some kind of craving. The same way that stealing isn't a vice unless it is done compulsively and for the joy of the action itself. Same thing with sex, really.

>> No.6527056

>>6526936
So it's true. Being a virgin and not being able to release your seed do to the stimulation of a vagina does cause autism.

>> No.6527057

>>6527040
Putting off indulgence indefinitely will lead to suffering. I suppose you could kill the desire to indulge like an ascetic. But I am skeptical of asceticism.

>> No.6527058

>>6527040
So your definition of vice is 'any act you commit against your own benefit'?

>> No.6527091

>>6527058
see>>6526937
What makes a vice is one's own relationship to the act. For example, some can enjoy a beer or two on the weekends without a second thought, and for another person, they know that they personally are relying on the substance for happiness, and that sooner or later there will be consquences. Same thing with affairs of the heart/ flirting, just because one can't be caught red handed with the needle in their vein doesn't mean that there are no negative mental or spiritual repercussions for their indulgence.

Some vices are considered less harmful or even harmless, but only relatively speaking, which is my original question: should one be satisfied with relatively harmless vices as outlets for the pressures of life, or should man strive to live virtuously no matter what?

>> No.6527107

>>6527091
In that case, I think giving them up completely tends to make people more miserable than moderating them.

Except for the kind of people who are incapable of moderation (such as raging alcoholics), those should practice abstinence.

Epicurus had a good approach I think, although he was somewhat on the stern side of moderate.

>> No.6527112

>>6527091
>should one be satisfied with relatively harmless vices as outlets for the pressures of life

This one

Being wholly virtuous wont lead to less suffering.

>> No.6527150

>>6527107
>>6527112
So where can we draw the line between a major or harmful vice and an allowable habit?

>> No.6527186

>>6527150
This historyofphilosophy.net podcast gave a nice example about how an Epicurean would only accept being bumped to first class on a flight for free if he would think it wouldn't make him resent flying coach in the future.

I think that's a good way to go about things, trying to predict what will lead to the most pleasurable life in the long run. Whether something is allowable is then determined by an approximation of the long term effects.

>> No.6527196

>>6527186
Nice, best books on epicurean philosophy or whatever?

>> No.6527224

>>6527196
Well I'd start with the mentioned podcast for a decent overview:

http://www.historyofphilosophy.net/epicurus-principles
http://www.historyofphilosophy.net/epicurus-ethics
http://www.historyofphilosophy.net/epicurus-gods-death
http://www.historyofphilosophy.net/lucretius
http://www.historyofphilosophy.net/warren-epicurus

Then I'd read maybe wiki, IEP and plato.stanford and then I'd look at the remaining works of Epicurus himself and Lucretius.

Texts are to be found here, among other places:

http://www.epicurus.net/

I haven't read any secondary literature in book form on Epicurus, just the translated texts.

>> No.6527267

>>6527224
Thanks man, will check it out.

>> No.6527329

>>6527267
Enjoy your ataraxia, m8.