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/lit/ - Literature

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6524768 No.6524768 [Reply] [Original]

"The worlds greatest philosopher, Alfred Korzybski, was giving a lecture to a group of students. He interrupted the lesson in order to retrieve a packet of biscuits, wrapped in white paper, from his briefcase. He muttered that he just had to eat something, and he asked the students in the front row if they would also like a biscuit. A few students took a biscuit. "Nice biscuit, don't you think," said Korzybski, while he took a second one. The students were chewing vigorously. He then tore the white paper from the biscuits in order to reveal the original packaging. On it was a big picture of a dog's head and the words "Dog Cookies." The students looked at the package, and were shocked. Two of them started to vomit, put their hands in front of their mouths, and ran out of the lecture hall to the toilet. "You see," Korzybski remarked, "I have just demonstrated that people don't just eat food, but also language, and that the taste of the former is often outdone by the taste of the latter."

>> No.6524775

>Two of them started to vomit, put their hands in front of their mouths, and ran out of the lecture hall to the toilet.
This is quite an overreaction. Dog biscuits smell terrible though.

>> No.6524795

"Here, take a painkiller"

Reveals packaging, it's cyanide.

"Now if you weren't such a slave to 'objectified' and artificial social constructions such as the delimitation between """"medicin"""" and """poison""" you would not be drooling like that right now. See, its all in language, which is controlled by the capitalist patriachy. If only you could liberate yourself from such ideology, you would be alive right now, wouldn't you?"

That's literally how stupid that story is.

>> No.6524800

>>6524768
Dog biscuits are made of the most vile cuts of meats, which are considered too digusting for human consumption. Vomiting is a completely logical reaction.

>> No.6524803

omg is this true

>> No.6524816

>>6524803
>The worlds greatest philosopher, Alfred Korzybski
Dya think

>> No.6524817

>>6524795
>which is controlled by the capitalist patriachy.

where is that even implied in OPs story? just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean you need to imply left wing agenda

>> No.6524846

>>6524795
>which is controlled by the capitalist patriachy. If only you could liberate yourself from such ideology
A much better comparison would be to the effectiveness of placebo drugs instead of your 'capitalist patriachy' tirade.

Korzybski was born into a very wealthy aristocratic family and made a ton of money selling bonds during the first world war; he's certainly not anti-capitalist, and I don't think he even mentions 'patriarchy' or any other buzzword your generation gets flustered about at all.

>> No.6524847

>be in class
>not sure why i took this course, proff is retarded. Literally no idea what he is talking about.
>some language bullshit
>linguistics. laughinggirls.jpg
>Oh fuck the bald manlet is talking at me why did i sit in front
>"take a cookie anon"
>uhh
>holds cookie out with this weird squinty look on his face. really awkward.
>because i hesitate he takes one and bites it
>"they are good" *munch munch*
>"uhh okay thanks"
>take cookie and bite once to be polite
>he is watching me like some creeper
>whatever just be nice and get a pass need to get into lawschool so cant tank this class
>wow this cookie is terrible what the fuck
>"HAHA it was a dog cookie all along and you trusted me! your professor!"
>cant wait till course evaluation

>> No.6524850

>>6524817
>just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean you need to imply left wing agenda

That kind of radical relativism usually implies a left wing agenda. At least now a days.

Look, I'm not a nomenclaturist, there are just perfectly valid reasons for spitting a dog biscuit, which go beyond social conventions. See >>6524800

>> No.6524852

>>6524850
*spitting out.

>> No.6524856

>>6524795
No, but it's literally how stupid you "are" (This "is" in a Korzybski thread after all).
*"is"

>> No.6524864

>>6524847
>literally fed me dog food.

>> No.6524872

>>6524856
Tripfags don't need to make arguments. How could I have forgotten?

>> No.6524874
File: 29 KB, 215x332, 1363531951277.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6524874

>>6524768
>Terrorised his students.
>"William S. Burroughs went to a Korzybski lecture in the Autumn of 1939 when he was 25 years old."
Naked lunch makes sense now.

Incidentally, Isaac Asimov, Alan Watts, and Robert A. Heinlein also attended his lectures.

>> No.6524893

>>6524800
>Dog biscuits are made of the most vile cuts of meats, which are considered too digusting for human consumption
Dog biscuits are predominantly carbohydrate based not protein based, but which cut of meat is considered "too digusting for human consumption?" Genuinely curious, as I live in Vietnam and have never encountered a cut of meat that was considered too digusting for human consumption.

>> No.6524900

I'm assuming they weren't actually dog biscuits though. His point is stronger if they weren't and it's bizarre to think anyone would eat actual dog biscuits because they are fucking gross.

Not sure it shows we eat language though. If you were drinking some water and then saw there was a dead prostitute in the pipes under your sink you'd be grossed out. I suppose it shows our brains aren't useless.

>> No.6524902

>>6524893
Snout, anus, skin, cartilage. We ship all of that stuff over to Asia and keep the good cuts to ourselves.

>> No.6524912

>>6524874
>William S. Burroughs went to a Korzybski lecture in the Autumn of 1939 when he was 25 years old.
>Incidentally, Isaac Asimov, Alan Watts, and Robert A. Heinlein also attended his lectures.

So did L. Ron Hubbard and Michel Houellebecq named a book after him.

>> No.6524915

>>6524872
Indeed.

>> No.6524920

>>6524915
go away.

>> No.6524938
File: 297 KB, 1600x1200, Pork.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6524938

>>6524902
>Snout, anus, skin, cartilage. We ship all of that stuff over to Asia and keep the good cuts to ourselves.

No joking, but snouts are a delicacy here. We have these food carts (moto's with a giant side-cart selling food or coffee) that specialize in snouts. Ears too. Both are delicious. As is the skin -- pork crackling makes my mouth water. But none of your shit is shipped here, we produce most of our own meats, and even have fierce market haggling battles if the meat comes from neighboring Cambodia. Most of your offal goes into big macs.

>> No.6524939

>>6524920
Meh.

>> No.6524947

>>6524938
>No joking, but snouts are a delicacy here.

"You see," Korzybski remarked, "I have just demonstrated that people don't just eat food, but also language, and that the taste of the former is often outdone by the taste of the latter."

>> No.6524954

>>6524938
U R DEGENERATE

WHITE PEOPLE DON'T EAT THAT

IT'S FOR NON-WHITES AND DEGENERATE

>> No.6524957

>>6524938
looks yummy but isn't there cartilage in those?

>> No.6524971
File: 158 KB, 500x345, 186703351_46b73d8090.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6524971

>>6524954
>U R DEGENERATE
>WHITE PEOPLE DON'T EAT THAT
I am white. I'm an expat English teacher who lives in Vietnam.

>IT'S FOR NON-WHITES AND DEGENERATE
How do you explain the liquidized udders, cow lips and anuses in pic related then?

>> No.6524973

>No joking, but snouts are a delicacy here
aren't you afraid of getting a landmine stuck between your teeth though

>> No.6524976

>>6524971
How old are you? What's the cost of living like there?

>> No.6524980

>>6524902
If you are American then you are the same as the other anon.

American meat is some of the worst quality in the world.

>> No.6524982

>>6524971
>How do you explain the liquidized udders, cow lips and anuses in pic related then?
pls be lying

>> No.6524986

>>6524973
IMPOSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>> No.6524987

>>6524768
The student's name ?

A L B E R T . E I N S T E I N

>> No.6524988

>>6524982
I got bad news for you anon

>> No.6524989

>>6524986
Why are /r9k/ faggots on here?

>>>/r9k/

>> No.6524993

>>6524988
>tfw eating language

:'(

>> No.6524998

>>6524795
He didn't say that people eat language only, but that it plays a part.

>> No.6525021

>>6524976
>How old are you?
25.
What's the cost of living like there?
It depends on your lifestyle, but a lot cheaper than a western country. Most natives here earn $300/$400 a month, so everything by way of food, clothes, and utilities is dirt cheap. I rent a large house - three bedrooms, four balconies -- for $200 a month, and hire a maid for $60 a month to clean it. I make $2k a month because I'm a native English speaker.

For comparison, I can buy a beer in a local bar for 50 cents here, and a whole sleeve of cheap cigarettes (ten packets) is about a dollar. If you factor in all the naughty 'vices' that Vietnam has to offer though, then it can start to get quite expensive.

>> No.6525065

>>6524795
>"Now if you weren't such a slave to 'objectified' and artificial social constructions such as the delimitation between """"medicin"""" and """poison"""
Is their a delimitation? a lot of medicines are poisonous.

How are you defining 'medicine' and 'poison'? Your body produces a dehydrogenase enzyme to fight alcohol every time you drink it because your body views alcohol as poisonous, yet if I offer you a bottle of "potentially fatal poison" or a "vintage cognac" you will react differently just because of the language used.

>> No.6525139

>>6524971
>I'm an expat English teacher
So you freely admit to being a degenerate!

>> No.6525142

>>6524988
Source, please?

I can find nothing that suggests any of those parts are used by any american fast food chain.

>> No.6525143

what kind of retard eats food from a stranger

>> No.6525144

>>6525065
The greeks only had one word 'pharmakon' for both. Sometimes medicine will kill you or oison will save you. Heck, even drinking 'too much' water will kill you. The point is that onthology I based around our subjective experience. A painkiller cure my head ache, thus it is medicine, cyanide will kill me, thus it is poison. I we don't consider their relation to us in the naming of things, everything just breaks down into atoms and language becomes impossible.

>> No.6525154

>>6525143
>what kind of retard eats food from a stranger
You personally know every waiter and chef in every restaurant you've eaten at?

>> No.6525163

>>6525154
i don't go to restaurant; i'm poor

>> No.6525164

>>6525144
>everything just breaks down into atoms and language becomes impossible.

*everything just breaks down into language.

>> No.6525187

>>6525163
The kind with money.

>> No.6525211

>>6524768
So what does Alfred do when he's not risking getting sued by students? Could anyone place him somewhere in the history of philosophy, give an idea who he resonates with, etc.?

>> No.6525219

>>6525144
Why are you so differant?

>> No.6525220

>>6524768
>Two of them started to vomit, put their hands in front of their mouths, and ran out of the lecture hall to the toilet.

It's literally just a fucking biscuit could these people be any more retarded? Fucking college students acting like that shits made out of dog instead of bran. They taste fucking fine

>>6524800
There is no meat inside a dog biscuit any more disgusting than what they put in your hotdogs. "Unfit for human consumption" means nothing in the food industry. Beyond that, there is barely any actual animal matter in the bars, most bars nowadays use corn/soybean because its less expensive.

>> No.6525225

>>6524902
>Snout, anus, skin, cartilage.
That's the shit they put in hotdogs I hope you realise. Along with organs, brain, and bonemeal.

>> No.6525232

>>6525142
Ever heard of pink slime? Mechanically separated meat? Look it up.

>> No.6525250

>>6524768
>Feeding your students dogfood
>The two that vomited may have had some notion that dog food had materials that a human cannot eat
>HUMANS ALSO EAT LANGUAGE

Truly the worlds greatest philosopher.

>> No.6525267

>>6525211
>So what does Alfred do when he's not risking getting sued by students?
since he was born in the 1800's, I presume he doesn't do a lot nowadays.

>Could anyone place him somewhere in the history of philosophy, give an idea who he resonates with, etc.?
He is post-Wittgenstein, proto-deconstruction/post-structualism/other European language philosophy. He is famous for the phrase "the map is not the territory," where the 'map' is our linguistic description of reality, and the 'territory' is what we perceive to be reality; which is the basis of the famous 'this is not a pipe' picture.

He gives a warning not to subscribe completely to any given model of the material world, with a deep assessment of how we interpret materialism, and explored our relationship with language in a very in-depth book called 'Science and Sanity: A General Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems And General Semantics.' Most of the ground covered by Derrida and the other popular French philosophers had already been handled by Korzybski decades earlier.

>> No.6525269

>>6524768
>the worlds greatest philosopher tricks people into eating dog food to make a trivial point

>> No.6525280

>>6524795
>>6524800

some people are just not meant to get philosophy

>> No.6525293

>>6525269
I see no problem with that.

>> No.6525316

>>6525293
thats why the world laughs at professional philosophers

>> No.6525411

How can Korzybski say:

"Non-elementalism and non-additivity: The refusal to separate verbally what cannot be separated empirically, and the refusal to regard such verbal splits as evidence that the 'things' that are verbally split bear an additive relation to one another. For example, space-time cannot empirically be split into 'space' + 'time', a conscious organism (including humans) cannot be split into 'body' + 'mind', etc., therefore, people should never speak of 'space' and 'time' or 'mind' and 'body' in isolation, but always use the terms space-time or mind-body (or other organism-as-a-whole terms)."

and then say:

"it is always possible to give a 'description' of empirical events, but such descriptions remain just that—"descriptions"—which necessarily leave out many aspects of the objective, microscopic, and submicroscopic events they attempt to describe. Language, natural or otherwise (including the language called 'mathematics') can be used to describe the taste of an orange, but one cannot give the taste of the orange using language alone.

The content of all knowledge is structure, so that language (in general) and science and mathematics (in particular) can provide people with a structural 'map' of empirical observations, but there can be no 'identity', only structural similarity, between the language (map) and the empirical facts as lived through and observed by people as humans-in-environments (including doctrinal and linguistic environments)."

The second seems to contradict the first.

>> No.6525453

>>6525280
You sound like a trip fag. Dismissive with no arguments. Sure you dont have a public key somewhere?

>> No.6525476

plus here is the thing
if you go to a restaurant you have indications that they are not serving garbage (namely that other people go there) and they are putting their livelihood on the line if they serve you bullshit
a random professor has neither of these factors and thus you should be less likely to eat food from them than from a restaurant

>> No.6525600

>>6525021
Ever been offered a child prostitute? ever accepted?

>> No.6525649

>>6524768
1. They had no tastebuds
2. What a bunch of pussies

>> No.6525677

>>6524768
idiot

>> No.6525737

>>6525600
>Ever been offered a child prostitute?
I know a few shady places that have underage girls, 12 and up. It's generally their parents, due to crippling poverty, that make them do it, and these girls service a lot of men in a day. I do whoremonger quite a lot, but I've never been. It's not my thing. I've had a few girls (over 18) in lower-end massage places that have that 'trafficked' feel, and it's just not fun. She strips off, lays their like a dead fish, motionless just waiting for me to finish. She's not wet, winces when penetrated, not interested in any type of foreplay, and it's a nasty experience.

There is K11 and a few other places in Cambodia, which is generally where the pedo's head. Girls there are like 6 and up. Again, never been, never will.

Then there are the virgin sellers. The new-rich pay a lot of money for a virgin, of any age, and poor parents will often just pimp out a girls virginity out of desperation. I've had two opportunities to 'buy a virgin'; not asked directly, but told that so-and-so is looking for a buyer for their daughter, which I could have pursued but didn't.

I did once bang an underage girl, a few years ago, by accident, but that was a western girl who was drinking and smoking inside a hotel bar and initially said she was 18. She was 15. Her Mother had passed out drunk in one of the hotel rooms, so she came down to the bar by herself. No regrets about that one though. It was consensual and we both enjoyed ourselves.

>> No.6525738

>>6525411
You think? The first quote attempts to explain that it is improper to separate linguistically what cannot be separated empirically. The second is a general primer to the referential nature of language. I find no contradiction in what I understood of them, at this time. I see that the fist paragraph of the second quote could be used as an explanation when one break the "rule" of the first quote but that is neither here nor there I'd say.

>> No.6525763

>>6525476
>a random professor has neither of these factors and thus you should be less likely to eat food from them

This is not a random professor. It's Alfred Korzybski. He didn't teach uni kids, he toured giving sold-out lectures and had a celebrity status akin to someone like Zizek has now. As someone else mentioned, everyone from William S. Burroughs to Isaac Asimov and Alan Watts paid to see him. The OP incident was in the 1930's too.

>> No.6525776

>>6524971
They dont make those burgers like anymore, at least in Canada, rip mcdo

>> No.6525777

>>6524795
Except dog treats are not poisonous. The actual dog treats were less disgusting to the students than the actual word 'dog treat', to which they freaked out over.

>> No.6525780

>>6525776
I mean as pic related, i dont care the shit they put in it, I assume its gonna be shit

>> No.6525825

I would rather eat this >>6524938 than this >>6524971