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/lit/ - Literature

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6515968 No.6515968 [Reply] [Original]

Jason was right about women.

>> No.6515977

As was Schopenhauer.

>> No.6516193

>>6515968
>>6515977
Just because you two can't acquire normal contact with women doesn't mean they're shit.
This is literally a "sour grapes" situation, and if you think otherwise, you're fooling yourselves.

>> No.6516258

>>6516193

Would you not agree that Caddy was a slut?

Which brings us to that argument... can a woman be labelled slut or not.

Sour situation, I don't agree. I'm pretty sure most men would labell Caddy a slut regardless of their sexual history with women.

>> No.6516273

>>6516258

Faulkner himself adored Caddy. Because a triad of incest-obsessed brothers (one more consciously than the others) think she's a slut does not mean she is. You don't understand the Sound and the Fury.

To people like you, any woman with a strong yet still within the range of normality sex drive is a slut.

>> No.6516279

>>6516273
>incest-obsessed brothers
You know Jason lied about that to protect Caddy and the family reputation, right?

>> No.6516327

>>6516279
*Quentin

But his chapter is filled with stream of consciousness "my mom is a fish" type incestual rumination nonetheless.

>> No.6516334

>>6516258
If you haven't already, watch the 1973 French film, The Mother and the Whore, listen to Veronika's monologue near the end, and realize once and for all that there are no such thing as whores.

>> No.6516342

>>6516193
>This is literally a "sour grapes" situation

But you're the one who made up the part about being unable to "acquire normal contact with women." It comes off as a bit defensive. Why do you have to make up presumptions? Why can't you address the arguments?

>> No.6516347

>>6516327
Yes Quentin, and you have a dumb way of thinking.

>> No.6516373

>>6516347
You zinged me there, bud.

>> No.6516379

>>6516373
You pulled your words out of your ass and project your subjectivity into the book, but criticize others for doing so.

>> No.6516412

>>6516379
>subjectivity

It's written in the book, jackass. I haven't criticized anyone. I'm not this guy >>6516273

>> No.6516427
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6516427

>>6516412
>Caddy isn't a slut is written into the book

>> No.6516430

>>6516342
We assume that you don't talk to women that much because we have encountered women we like and we know that women can be intelligent mature individuals. Therefore, either you don't have regular contact with women, or you 're just very immature.

>> No.6516437

>>6516342
>Why can't you address the arguments?
Because you don't have any, robotfriend.

>> No.6516442

>>6515968
Man, how can one obvious shitpost derail a thread before it even begins?

>> No.6516446

>>6516427
Unfortunately I've yet to find a store that could sell you any reading comprehension–you really need it.

>> No.6516458

>>6516430
Please never use a general "therefore" after relating your personal experience. And if you insist on continuing, please never go into science. Whether or not anyone in this thread has ever "liked" a woman is completely irrelevant to the arguments proposed by Schopenhauer and the perspective of Jason.

Don't you see how far your post moves away from intellectual conversation? You make all of these assumptions, attempt to sweep other people's thoughts into your ideological playground where everything is a binary "for/against" political statement, and make absurd "connections" under the guise of a logical "therefore." "I've met intelligent mature women therefore you've never met women!" Nevermind the logical error of that statement, who ever said anything about meeting intelligent women? And what intelligent person extrapolates from their personal experience to the rest of the world?

>> No.6516491

>>6516458
I would like to clarify that I wasn't talking about Schopehauer. I have read the Sound and the Fury and I remember Jason being a misogynistic, misanthropic cunt. He's a dick to everyone especially his family members. What kind of intelligent person agrees with Jason Compson?

>> No.6516505

Much like when the machines at work break down or when I'm given conflicting instructions from different superiors at work and I'm reminded that I'm most definitely at work, this threadost definitely reminds me that I'm on 4chan.

If you demonize Caddy and agree with Jason you either need to stop reading altogether, buy a 12 pack of natty light and start watching judge Judy, or you need to read many more books. Either way. I'll give you a friendly criticism that you're not very smart right now. Please do try to be a better person, up till this point you've been making everything worse for everyone else.

>> No.6516522

>>6516505
>here's my opinion with more opinions to follow it up
that's all nice and dandy but how do you support your claims and accusations ?

>> No.6516537

>>6516505
>If you demonize Caddy and agree with Jason you either need to stop reading altogether, buy a 12 pack of natty light and start watching judge Judy, or you need to read many more books.

Ask yourself how you would feel if somebody said this to you. Would you even feel insulted? Would you feel like your argument was even touched upon?

Honestly, it seems like a lot of you have been primed to insult purely in service of yourself. So while typing that up made you feel good, it really didn't accomplish anything, it couldn't have even insulted anyone.

>> No.6516545

>>6516522
Jason Compson stole money from his aging mother, and hated everyone! Saying that you agree with him is not an opening statement to an intellectual discussion. It just proves that you're a cynical misanthrope and demonstrates that you probably haven't even spark noted tsatf.

>> No.6516546

>>6516446
>the idiot loves her!!

you are benjy

>> No.6516560

>>6516546
I don't even know what you're talking about at this point.

>> No.6516561

>>6516273

Women can be sluts, sorry if you can't see that.

>> No.6516572

>>6516545
You're demonstrating pretty clearly that you sparknoted it and not much else. Not that guy, but it's not hard to sympathize with Jason if you've ever A) felt that you've been cheated, or B) had to work every day of your life.

>> No.6516576

>>6516545
I never said I agreed with OP or Jason, though. My questioning your "methods" was actually my first post in this thread, and you've still as of yet managed to not post anything besides ideology. Well done.

>> No.6516581

>>6516560
I mean you're assuming the author's intention was successful and being really stupid about insisting he's right, which is a really dumb way to read anything ever.

>> No.6516596

>>6516537
You're right, of course it was for myself. Do you think I really intend to go through the effort of explaining to op what is wrong with him? As if the whole world hasn't been trying desperately to put an end to this kind of thinking, as if William Faulkner wasn't trying to do that with his writing? I have only so many pearls to cast, my buddy.

it would be like math professor simply writing proofs and expecting people to understand them. I could help op but only if he had the genuine desire to work and grow. Which of course he doesn't. I think it's safe to say we're all trolls trolling trolls here.

>> No.6516612

>>6516572
Serial killers were beaten as children without exception. I'm not saying that Jason isn't necessarily relatable. I'm just saying that Jason's viewpoint is skewed and warped and OP agreeing with him demonstrates that his viewpoint is similarly warped.

>> No.6516626

>>6516572
>sympathizing with Jason
>not seeing Jason as a broken individual, a living and unrepairable extension of his mother's illness manifested as a bitter and selfish man child who is upset every time he doesn't get his way or his views are challenged
There can be no sympathy for such a broke human. I don't blame him necessarily but I certainly don't have time to sympathize with poor programming.

>> No.6516630

>>6516581
All I've said is that Quentin thought about incest a bit and you're going on tangents.

>> No.6516638

>>6516626
I understand that. But if you're ever left to work full time at a shit job because the rest of your family can't get their shit together, you may feel differently. It would turn anyone cynical.

>> No.6516646

>>6516638
I suppose but are his actions really excused just because his life is shitty. Just because it's someone else's fault doesn't change the fact that he's a selfish cunt with no insight into himself

>> No.6516651

>>6516626
>a bitter and selfish man child
>ever using this term in your reflections on literature

Kill yourself.

>> No.6516652
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6516652

>sympathising with/relating to or demonising characters
It's evident none of you engages in literary criticism.
Are you all just casual readers ?
You are discussing litterature as my classmates used to in 6th grade.
>stay pleb

>> No.6516656

>>6516646
I'm not saying they do. I'm not arguing he's right, I'm just saying he's a fully realized character and damn well written one.

>> No.6516666

>>6516652
we can't all be as smart and sophisticated as you :^)

>> No.6516670

>>6516666
*blushes*

>> No.6516678

>>6516646
Jason was a selfish cunt because everyone else, in his eyes, was a selfish cunt and that made it normal.

Quentin took his parents money to go to Harvard and then killed himself, wasting it all.

Caddy ruined Jason's chance at success by sleeping around, and then left him with her daughter to deal with.

His mother was a whiny cunt.

Jason is a shithead, but he's a shithead that you can sympathize with. What he does may be terrible but he has a reason for doing it all, and that makes him a great character.

>> No.6516685

>>6516656
I'll give you that. Still OP should see someone if he agrees with him

>> No.6516702

>>6516630
you said 3 brothers thought of it, idiot

>> No.6516704

>>6516652
Here's the stupidity going on in this thread: one side is butthurt at the idea of agreeing with Jason's character because they are projecting ideology everywhere and "boo hoo I know smart women!" The other side is literally using his vermiform life experiences to *relate* to literary characters. It is truly an abomination of a thread. They're probably in college, too. Academia is fucked.

>> No.6516732

>>6516678

Exactly. Characters that are just utterly awful human beings, but who you can still sort of understand where they're coming from, are the best. As close to an "antagonist" as Jason comes, he must surely be one of the most fully realized. Faulkner really could paint a potrait of the white trash like no other.

>> No.6516733

>>6516638
Jason was a bad person before that. He was favored by his mother and told he was special and better than his siblings. Having to work is incidental, he would have been a bitter asshole either way.

>> No.6516737

>>6516702
Not him but I read the book for the first time when I was like 14 and even then I thought even then that Benjy had weird feelings for his sister. Up your comprehension.

>> No.6516757

>>6516652
Nice bait. But speaking of literary criticism, how old were you guys when you grew out of it? I think I moved past literary criticism and began enjoying the aesthetic experience of literature when I was about 17.

>> No.6516765

>>6516737
>benjamin literally wants to fuck caddy

now I've heard everything. reading misandry this hard into a text is fucking pathetic

>> No.6516781

>>6516765
I think that Benjy has weird feelings for Caddy but he's unable to understand them or articulate them. How is it misandry?

>> No.6516806

>>6516757
I was about 17 when I realised I can form an opinoin which is broader than
>muh feels

>> No.6516816

>>6516702
Lol no I didn't. I even pointed out to you posts ago that this >>6516273 isn't me

>> No.6516821

>>6516781
>Incest is sexual activity between family members or close relatives.
There's nothing to indicate Benjy has any sexual desire. He misses Caddy because she's the only one who took the time to learn his ways of communicating and took the time to care about him at all. His feelings aren't even weird, they're directly showed in the actions of the book. And every context is perfectly sensible if you take the time to work them out

I call it misandry because the whole point of the book was Benjy was the one person who recognized Caddy rightfully, and yet plenty of people still interpret it wrongly because they automatically hold male desire in suspect.

Literally consider the title of the book. "Life is a tale best told by AN IDIOT, full of SOUND AND FURY, signifying nothing," and so on.

>> No.6516829

>>6516816
Then why are you replying to me? I don't have any beef with you, stop talking to me.

>> No.6516830

>>6516733
That's purely speculation, though.

Sure, he was a tit as a young boy, but if his family had not completely dissolved as he grew I doubt very seriously he would have been as he came to be.

>> No.6516834

>>6516829
Every post besides that one has been me. This entire time you thought I was that posted but I haven't been. This is where I came in >>6516327

>> No.6516835

>>6516806
Allow me to quote one of the 20th century's greatest writers, and its greatest reader:

“Personally, I am a hedonistic reader; I have never read a book merely because it was ancient. I read books for the aesthetic emotions they offer me, and I ignore the commentaries and criticism.” -- Borges

>> No.6516846

>>6516834
Why did you reply to my posts as though you were that person?

>> No.6516855
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6516855

OP here, you guys all got le tricked by my master b8er skills xDDDDD

>> No.6516861

>>6516846
I didn't. I told you I wasn't ages ago goddamnit you're dumb.

>> No.6516864

>>6516821
You added a word there. Life is a tale told by an idiot. You added the word best. I'll agree that it is open to interpretation. I considered it tragic that Benjy isn't able to understand or explain his feelings even to himself. To imply that Benjy was the only one who was right just seems very wrong to me.

>> No.6516865

>>6516757
define aesthetic experience

i'm wary of anyone who reads for "aesthetic" value because it just feels to me like a buzzphrase, signifying nothing. Literary criticism at least makes logical sense, for the most part.

>> No.6516882

I recently read Light in August and I found Faulkner's representation of gender relations a lot more complex and ambivalent than it seems to be popularly interpreted. The women in the novel seem to exercise control over and indeed punish men just as much as vice versa, just in subtler, more insidious ways.

>> No.6516883

>>6516861
>I didn't. I told you I wasn't ages ago goddamnit you're dumb.

From the beginning, you dolt.

>>6516864
It's clearly intended by Faulkner that Benjy's view is somehow most important, though.

>> No.6516906

Please kindly fuck off with this shit.

>> No.6516919

>>6515968
Which is why he outwitted his niece and didn't end up humiliated in front of his entire town. Oh, wait...

>> No.6516927
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6516927

>>6516666

>> No.6517074

>>6516193
>muh dick
every pro woman argument

>> No.6517319

Jason. Jaaaaaaaaason. Get down here!

>> No.6517538

>>6516919
And he was a cowardly little tattle tale even as a child more than content to pull petty scams on people. Then he grows up and gets scammed by "those jews on wall street" and it's like there's a worldwide conspiracy against him.

>> No.6518275

>>6516882
Oh yeah, Faulkner had a great understanding of psychology and human emotion

>> No.6518284

>>6517074
feminists are so anti-patriarchy that their greatest argument against non-feminist men is to assert that those men must be unsuccessful in satisfying patriarchal cultural expectations.

>> No.6518396

>>6516865
what I've seen literary criticism as, is just trying to project your opinion onto a text, then attempting to prove it. Its like TV-tropes: the class.

>> No.6518771

Caddy is by far the kindest and nicest of the Compsons, even if she did cost Jason a job by fucking out of wedlock. She still manages to send money to her daughter every month (which Jason steals), and it's heavily implied in the story that girl Quentin is being kept at the Compson manor largely against her will. It seems like Jason is half the reason she's so difficult.

That said, Caddy can't keep it in her pants, and that IS a flaw. All the Compsons are shits in one way or another. The real hero of the novel is Dilsey.

>> No.6519173
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6519173

>not seeking tranquility of mind
Jason done goofed.

>> No.6519193
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6519193

>>6516919
ayyy

>> No.6519247

Wow, I just noticed the BBC in that cover.

>> No.6519251

>>6519173
If you had tranquility of mind you wouldn't shoehorn worse than the Christposters and Evolafags.