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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 10 KB, 322x214, david_foster_wallace.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451213 No.6451213 [Reply] [Original]

"The next real literary “rebels” in this country might well emerge as some weird bunch of anti-rebels, born oglers who dare somehow to back away from ironic watching, who have the childish gall actually to endorse and instantiate single-entendre principles. Who treat of plain old untrendy human troubles and emotions in U.S. life with reverence and conviction. Who eschew self-consciousness and hip fatigue. These anti-rebels would be outdated, of course, before they even started. Dead on the page. Too sincere. Clearly repressed. Backward, quaint, naive, anachronistic. Maybe that’ll be the point. Maybe that’s why they’ll be the next real rebels. Real rebels, as far as I can see, risk disapproval. The old postmodern insurgents risked the gasp and squeal: shock, disgust, outrage, censorship, accusations of socialism, anarchism, nihilism. Today’s risks are different. The new rebels might be artists willing to risk the yawn, the rolled eyes, the cool smile, the nudged ribs, the parody of gifted ironists, the “Oh how banal.” To risk accusations of sentimentality, melodrama. Of overcredulity. Of softness. Of willingness to be suckered by a world of lurkers and starers who fear gaze and ridicule above imprisonment without law. Who knows."

>> No.6451217
File: 17 KB, 370x473, chesterton.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451217

In other words...

>> No.6451220

sometimes I cringe at how much I used to like this guy

>> No.6451223

>>6451217
Ahh yes. A great 21st century writer.

>> No.6451228

>>6451213
so bronies.

>> No.6451229

>>6451220
he was literally a walking, talking fedora (except a bandana)

>> No.6451232

>>6451220
>>6451229

stop

>> No.6451236
File: 69 KB, 464x654, St. David.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451236

>>6451213
AMEN
M
E
N

>> No.6451238

He really wanted to be Axl Rose.

>> No.6451241
File: 16 KB, 375x281, Dave.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451241

>>6451220
>>6451229
It's just water guys.

>> No.6451244

>>6451241
why he wear the diaper in the head

>> No.6451246

>>6451244
He had shit for brains.

>> No.6451251

>>6451244
>>6451246

thats so witty man

>> No.6451253
File: 23 KB, 613x431, David.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451253

>>6451246
What made you like this?

>> No.6451258

>>6451251
>>6451253
Lol why are this guy's fans such big whiny crybabies when ever someone makes fun of him? Is this what the New Sincerity is?

>> No.6451262

>>6451258
>im ironical! xD

>> No.6451266

>>6451213
I told you people to read that fucking essay, and finally some of you faggots did...

>> No.6451268
File: 206 KB, 670x400, Steve-Roggenbuck[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451268

>>6451213
>The new rebels might be artists willing to risk the yawn, the rolled eyes, the cool smile, the nudged ribs, the parody of gifted ironists, the “Oh how banal.” To risk accusations of sentimentality, melodrama. Of overcredulity. Of softness.

You reap what you sow.

>> No.6451276
File: 319 KB, 534x388, DFW.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451276

>>6451258
Why do YOU feel the need to make fun of a beloved author?

>> No.6451279
File: 2.33 MB, 1543x936, tbh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451279

>>6451268
This is actually a very good point. . .

>> No.6451291

>>6451276
N O D I C E R N I B L E T A L E N T

>> No.6451295

>>6451268
>>6451279

1. THESE TWO POSTS ARE MADE BY THE SAME "POSTER".

2. STEVE ROGGENBUCK IS IRONIC, NOT SINCERE.

>> No.6451297
File: 24 KB, 480x350, whad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451297

>>6451291
>>6451295
#teamDFW

>> No.6451301
File: 95 KB, 724x720, 1429178812437.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451301

>>6451228
>bronies
>sincere

>> No.6451305

>>6451301
No one likes the horses ironically.

>> No.6451307

>>6451213

i can understand why /lit/ doesn't like this guy.

i cannot understand why he gets relentlessly bashed. is it in response to his popularity?

>> No.6451308

>>6451305
They're hipsters outcasts, they like nothing unironically.

>> No.6451310
File: 2.54 MB, 658x800, WAKE ME UP (CAN'T WAKE UP).gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451310

>>6451305
>tfw this is reality

>> No.6451311

>>6451307
he was insanely popular here a few years ago

but like everything that is very popular here, he became a meme

>> No.6451319
File: 96 KB, 250x250, 13253534234.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451319

>>6451308
I don't think you understand. . .

>> No.6451348

>>6451308
I like ponies unironically. I appreciate their earnestness and sense of goodness. I think they are fine children's programming, and they make me smile because of that.

>> No.6451352

>>6451319
>>6451348
It's commercial programming, it can't be sincere.

>> No.6451363
File: 151 KB, 374x363, F*** my S*** up.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451363

>>6451352
You don't get it. These people r e a l l y like ponies.

>> No.6451369

>>6451223
I think he's saying that DFW in the OP's quote is essentially describing Chesterton. So basically Wallace thinks that the next literary rebels are going to react to the 21st Century in the same spirit that Chesterton reacted to the 20th.

>> No.6451370

>>6451352
>he hasn't seen the twilight sparkle plushie BDSM pic

Someone pls post it and the guy's ED article

>> No.6451378

>>6451369
How did Chesterton react to the 20th?

>> No.6451379

>>6451363
>>6451370
Just because you really like something doesn't make it sincere. I could get a tattoo of a horse on my eyeballs but that doesn't change the fact it's an ad. There's no sincerity in that.

>> No.6451386

>>6451379
They had to make an entire board for one single little girls cartoon.

>> No.6451390

>>6451379

>tattoos are advertisement

is identity a commodity?

>> No.6451398

>>6451390

i guess if that identity is the result of commodification of just about every aspect of humanity (not affirming this).

>> No.6451399

>>6451390
When you make part of your identity an ad, yeah.

>> No.6451406
File: 64 KB, 499x499, MK-PEPE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451406

>>6451379
Bro. . . they are really "in" to horses. Super I N to them if you know what I mean. They are really sincere trust me.

>> No.6451448
File: 15 KB, 340x340, Chesterton[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451448

>>6451378
"The new rebel is a skeptic, and will not entirely trust anything. He has no loyalty; therefore he can never be really a revolutionist. And the fact that he doubts everything really gets in his way when he wants to denounce anything. For all denunciation implies a moral doctrine of some kind; and the modern revolutionist doubts not only the institution he denounces, but the doctrine by which he denounces it. Thus he writes one book complaining that imperial oppression insults the purity of women, and then he writes another book in which he insults it himself. He curses the Sultan because Christian girls lose their virginity, and then curses Mrs. Grundy because they keep it. As a politician, he will cry out that war is a waste of life, and then, as a philosopher, that all life is waste of time. A Russian pessimist will denounce a policeman for killing a peasant, and then prove by the highest philosophical principles that the peasant ought to have killed himself. A man denounces marriage as a lie, and then denounces aristocratic profligates for treating it as a lie. He calls a flag a bauble, and then blames the oppressors of Poland or Ireland because they take away that bauble. The man of this school goes first to a political meeting, where he complains that savages are treated as if they were beasts; then he takes his hat and umbrella and goes on to a scientific meeting, where he proves that they practically are beasts. In short, the modern revolutionist, being an infinite skeptic, is always engaged in undermining his own mines. In his book on politics he attacks men for trampling on morality; in his book on ethics he attacks morality for trampling on men. Therefore the modern man in revolt has become practically useless for all purposes of revolt. By rebelling against everything he has lost his right to rebel against anything."

>> No.6451518
File: 22 KB, 362x503, George_Orwell_press_photo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451518

"Within the last few decades, in countries like Britain or the United States, the literary intelligentsia has grown large enough to constitute a world in itself. One important result of this is that the opinions which a writer feels frightened of expressing are not those which are disapproved of by society as a whole. To a great extent, what is still loosely thought of as heterodoxy has become orthodoxy. It is nonsense to pretend, for instance, that at this date there is something daring and original in proclaiming yourself an anarchist, an atheist, a pacifist, etc. The daring thing, or at any rate the unfashionable thing, is to believe in God or to approve of the capitalist system. In 1895, when Oscar Wilde was jailed, it must have needed very considerable moral courage to defend homosexuality. Today it would need no courage at all: today the equivalent action would be, perhaps, to defend antisemitism. But this example that I have chosen immediately reminds one of something else—namely, that one cannot judge the value of an opinion simply by the amount of courage that is required in holding it."

>> No.6451539

>>6451295
Steve Roggenbuck is a "thing" now? Oh shit. I went to college with that guy. He was such a fag.

>> No.6451564

>>6451539
He's not even poetry. He's tripe.

>> No.6451585

I hate to admit I feel I relate to DFW in that I'm a neurotic mess who is obsessively introspective. I'd like to think I'm not as pretentious. "Difficult" art doesn't inherently equal good art as he seemed to assume.

>> No.6451625

>>6451311
/lit/ hates things that are popular. /lit/ hates the general public for not liking literature while simultaneously deriving its sense of self-worth from the non-popularity of literature.

>> No.6451781
File: 438 KB, 1941x2279, Jonathan_Franzen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6451781

>>6451213

Miss me yet boys?

>> No.6452430

>>6451781
nope f off

>> No.6452466

My copy of IJ has no endnotes?

>> No.6452834

>>6451266
Yup. We all read the essay due to you.

You are a dense fucker.

>> No.6452860

>>6452466
looks like you got jested man

>> No.6453795

So Tao Lin?

>> No.6453810

>>6451307
He's a meme, many haven't read him and hate him because of the constant DFW memeposting, the same with Pynchon. The ones who have read his work tend to like him.

>> No.6453959

>>6451448

balls, that's me

>> No.6455636

>>6453795
tao lin is an le ironic shitbag

>> No.6455830

>>6451448
I just got BTFO. Guess, I ought to become a Christian. What now /lit/?

>> No.6456162

>>6451518
<3 based Orwell.

What's that quote from?

>> No.6456164
File: 548 KB, 640x1000, Bread Pill.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6456164

>>6455830
Take the bread pill and celebrate,

>> No.6456188

>>6451585
DFW has stated multiple times in interviews that the reason avant garde literature is often ignored is because it was boring. He did not think that making something hard made it good, he just wrote in a style that people found difficult (even though it really wasn't, things like footnotes don't make the text more complicated, it just causes you to read something else for a second)

>> No.6456192

>>6456162

>>6451518

God, what a fucking beast of an essayist and all anyone ever cares about are those boring novels.

>> No.6456219
File: 145 KB, 1163x710, FREEDOM FLAG.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6456219

>>6451518
>>6456162
>>6456192

READ THIS NOW:

http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/

>> No.6456384

>>6456219
Yeah that's a classic, just didn't recognize the quote.

>> No.6456550

>>6456162
He was writing some lit crit on Evelyn Waugh. It wasn't finished. I forget what it was called.

>> No.6456552

>>6451448
I'm not even sure if this is a condemnation or not.

>> No.6456563

>>6456552
Then you've read it correctly.

>> No.6456569

>>6456563
What makes you say that?

>> No.6456589

>>6456569
you cannot decide one way or the other whether it's a bad thing. you're ambivalent. you doubt both interpretations.

>> No.6458060

>>6451518

George Orwell literally changed my life with that quote

> that one cannot judge the value of an opinion simply by the amount of courage that is required in holding it.

completely btfo me

>> No.6458154

>>6451213
Anyone got some recs for good modern non-ironic literature?

>> No.6458356
File: 299 KB, 1322x1600, UVkp5TR.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6458356

>>6458154
Cormac McCarthy
Preparation for the Next Life- Atticus Lish

>> No.6458509

>>6451518

BASED