/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Sat May 8 06:04:14 2010 No.644003 [Reply] [Original]

Hi, /lit/.

So I'm thinking of hearing 4Chan's say on this by visiting their respected boards and asking them what they consider to be the finest works of art of the 20th century. Yesterday I took a visit to /mu/, and they agreed(well, most of them, at least) that Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon takes the spot. Now it's your turn, /lit/.

Try to come to the conclusion(though this probably will never happen) and decide upon the greatest work of literature of the 20th century.

If you're feeling up to it, you can fill in other spots as well, but your votes won't be considered when I visit the other boards.

inb4twilight

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:04:14 2010 No.644005 >>644003 Oh, and my personal vote goes to Franz Kafka's The Trial.

>>	fascist keyboard Sat May 8 06:10:14 2010 No.644019 >>644003 atlas shrugged by ayn rand

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:10:14 2010 No.644020 We all know it is The Brothers Karamazov.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:13:14 2010 No.644025 i vote for the Lord of the Flies by William Golding

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:14:14 2010 No.644027 >>644003 Blood Meridian or The Brothers Karamazov DSotM sucks and war ruined by an egotistical fgt.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:16:14 2010 No.644033 The Great Gatsby Mrs. Dalloway

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:18:14 2010 No.644036 The Great Gatsby

>>	deleted Sat May 8 06:19:14 2010 No.644037 The Brothers Karamazov by Doestovsky.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:22:14 2010 No.644039 Crime and Punishment - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:24:14 2010 No.644040 >>644039 >>644037 >>644020 Dostoyevski sure got better once he picked up all those 1960s pulp influences.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:32:14 2010 No.644045 Gargantua and Pantagruel No wait Don Quixote or maybe 2666

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:32:14 2010 No.644048 ask us later OP. when the place is more populated. keep in mind it's a weekend.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:33:14 2010 No.644049 I was not aware that 4chan had an art board

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:34:14 2010 No.644050 >>644045 It says 20th century, babe.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:39:14 2010 No.644058 The Magic Mountain by Thomas Mann

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:46:14 2010 No.644064 >>644050 >thats_the_joke.TIFF

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:46:14 2010 No.644065 Oh FFS /lit/, Brothers Karamazov is from the 19th century. I'll vote for Ulysses.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 06:53:14 2010 No.644071 >>644064 Barring 2666. Bad joke.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:11:14 2010 No.644084 Will you come visit us again once you've rounded up the other submissions? Also, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:13:14 2010 No.644087 Joseph Heller - Catch-22

>>	THATCAPSLOCKANON Sat May 8 07:16:14 2010 No.644088 GEORGE ORWELL'S 1984

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:16:14 2010 No.644089 File: 90 KB, 408x648, the-alchemist.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:22:14 2010 No.644092 Popular choice: LotR Élite choice: Ulysses

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:34:14 2010 No.644100 I believe Ulysses to represent /lit/ well 1984 is good too

Anonymous Sat May 8 07:36:14 2010 No.644103

>>644003

Fuck Pink Floyd. Pretentious dads' songs are pretentious.

Fucking hipsters, aside from overrating those so-called "classics", they just happen to sheep on what's obscure because it's bad, and not realizing real pearls in the deep shit of music industry.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:39:14 2010 No.644106 >>644089 Bullshit. That crap was unsubtle self-help in the form of a boring story.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:48:14 2010 No.644110 >>644092 popular choice would be Dumas Count of Monte Cristo I think. I've never seen anyone talking shit about this book on /lit/. But I'd be reluctant to make it the finest piece of XIXth century literature.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:48:14 2010 No.644111 pierrot lunaire was robbed ROBBED

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:49:14 2010 No.644112 another vote for mrs dalloway here

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:54:14 2010 No.644115 lit - uylsses music - sgt pepper film - citizen kane vidya - half life 2 art - i have no idea

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:56:14 2010 No.644116 Fuck you, /mu/. It's not "In the Court Of The Crimson King."

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:57:14 2010 No.644120 Kafka's Trial has my vote.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 07:58:14 2010 No.644123 Ah crap, I was gonna go for Count of Monte Cristo... wrong century

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:00:14 2010 No.644124 >>644115 i'm pretty sure half-life 2 was 21st century, bro

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:10:14 2010 No.644137 lol video games are not art

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:12:14 2010 No.644139 >>644115 art - Picasso's Guernica or Duchamp's Fountain

>>	Inurdaes !Eddyz5V3iU Sat May 8 08:18:14 2010 No.644143 MEIN KAMPF

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:20:14 2010 No.644146 /mu/ only picked darkside of the moon because it wanted to look cool by not picking Sgt. Peppers. Clearly The Beatles are superior to Pink Floyd.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:23:14 2010 No.644148 >>644103 dude, we almost got him to choose Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire instead, you can't say that we didn't try.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:29:14 2010 No.644159 Wish you were here is much better

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:29:14 2010 No.644161 Catch-22, man. You know it. Either that or 1984. Choose wisely, /lit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:30:14 2010 No.644162 i care way more about music than i do books but whilst i spend plenty of time on lit i avoid mu almost entirely that choice of 'greatest work' sums up why really

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:31:14 2010 No.644163 File: 76 KB, 640x624, 123584.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:36:14 2010 No.644167 >>644148 WAT I SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRESENT THAT TIME

Buddha Dave Apprentice Sat May 8 08:43:14 2010 No.644177

>>644146
I agree that The Beatles are better than Pink Floyd, but The Dark Side of The Moon is still better than Sgt. Peppers.

I'm not sure there's an album I like more by The Beatles, than Dark Side, but maybe It'd be Abbey Road or Magical Mystery Tour. The thing about Dark Side though, is that it's greater than the sum of its parts, which in my opinion, can't be said about Sgt. Peppers.

I'd say Kandinsky's Composition VII for art (there's an art board?). Also, I know what you mean by art, but how can art be a category in "20th Century's Greatest Pieces of ART"?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:48:14 2010 No.644181 The Odyssey by Homer

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:51:14 2010 No.644184 >>644163 why did you put Avatar in computer games?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:53:14 2010 No.644188 >>644184 7/10 Would be trolled again.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:54:14 2010 No.644190 >implying you can accurately grade works of literature/music/art/film derp sure is my opinion>your opinion in here

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:55:14 2010 No.644193 Dylan > anything else in the 20th century music wise

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 08:56:14 2010 No.644194 >>644190 are you srs? Its the point of the topic.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:00:14 2010 No.644197 >>644194 The point of the thread is for people to claim their opinion matters more than someone else's? useful

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:01:14 2010 No.644199 Art - Picasso's The young ladies of Avignon

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:06:14 2010 No.644210 The Trial by Franz Kafka or Collected Poems of Dylan Thomas. Art--cambell's soup cans by Warhol.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:07:14 2010 No.644211 File: 80 KB, 640x624, dhdhfdfh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] this is what your going to get

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:10:14 2010 No.644214 >>644211 what's wrong w/ hr giger? annnnd NO i say we all vote NO on a clockwork orange right now. Not even burgess' best. No, we MUST go for Ulysses. Even if we don't comprehend it ARSE FULL OF FARTS guize it's practically the /lit/ mascot.

Anonymous Sat May 8 09:17:14 2010 No.644227

Guys, we have to look at it this way.

What is the ONE book where every word is flawlessly placed, where the characters are complex, where the messages speak volumes without overshadowing the book.

Art is a feeling, so what is the book that makes you most feel?

What leaves you mouth agape every time you read it?

Personally, I vote for Catch 22. But that's just me.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:17:14 2010 No.644228 File: 19 KB, 460x276, Samuel-Beckett-001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Beckett says: ''Ulysses''

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:18:14 2010 No.644230 i'm going to say ULYSSES.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:19:14 2010 No.644231 File: 42 KB, 713x613, derrida.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] OH HAI THERE VOTE FOR ULYSSES GUIZE

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:19:14 2010 No.644233 >>644211 Is that Kubrick in the 'film' slot? Fuck yes. But isn't the idea to pick a particular film? Else 'literature' could be an author, 'music' a band, etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:21:14 2010 No.644235 File: 25 KB, 356x474, eliot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Ulysses: Approved by Eliot

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:24:14 2010 No.644241 File: 522 KB, 575x734, Picture 19.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:26:14 2010 No.644247 >>644241 An ADULT goddamn ATARI game!? How did I not know about this before now!?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:27:14 2010 No.644249 >>644241 >TrollanAndRollan.jpg

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:28:14 2010 No.644252 >>644241 >20 Jazz Funk Greats >Not DOA Third and Final Report hm. I'm not sure if I quite agree with you on this one, good sir.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:30:14 2010 No.644255 File: 56 KB, 500x565, everyone_poops.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Uncompromising. Beyond the boundaries. Definitive book of all genres.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:30:14 2010 No.644256 >>644241 >Music >Not My Aim Is True Get the fuck out.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:31:14 2010 No.644258 File: 263 KB, 1118x1363, bestest.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] so these are my submissions for the two categories I couldn't choose, even though I'm leaning toward DSotM and Catch 22

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:31:14 2010 No.644261 File: 3 KB, 250x200, vg_custer.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>644247

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:33:14 2010 No.644264 >>644249 >imlyingiwastrolling .jpg

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:34:14 2010 No.644267 >>644252 Coil>TG

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:34:14 2010 No.644271 >>644267 dude, brofist.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:34:14 2010 No.644272 >>644258 Your music taste, I can dig it. Needs more early dylan and some hendrix though

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:36:14 2010 No.644275 >>644258 >shitty hippie music >hipster literature There should be a concentration camp where they gas people like you

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:36:14 2010 No.644277 >>644258 either beach boys or pixies, and a clocklwork orange or 1984

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:37:14 2010 No.644280 >>644003 Are we including plays as part of literature? If so, Death of a Salesman. If not, my vote goes to 1984. Also, /mu/ got it dead wrong. Sgt. Pepper ftw.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:38:14 2010 No.644282 File: 16 KB, 500x500, BQcDAAAAAwoDanBnAAAABC5vdXQKFlNJWjNtSGlXM2hHQ1hpenJhNkZoNEEAAAACaWQKAXgAAAAEc2l6ZQ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>644271

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:39:14 2010 No.644285 >>644277 >beach boys or Pixies >not Ultravox or Frank Zappa >Clockwork Orange or 1984 >not Neuromancer or Paris in the Twentieth Century

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:39:14 2010 No.644286 You guise are uly-sless. Ulysses OP.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:40:14 2010 No.644287 Sgt. Pepper recently earned an officer's commission. You have to call him Lt. Pepper now. >>644280

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:40:14 2010 No.644288 blood meridian by cormac mccarthy. siddhartha by hermann hesse even though its kind of a children's book the little prince by exupery.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:41:14 2010 No.644290 File: 5 KB, 158x152, slap.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>644285 >Neuromancer

Anonymous Sat May 8 09:41:14 2010 No.644292

>>644272
I was considering Are You Experienced or Electric Ladyland, but I really buckled down and said "okay man, you have to pick albums you believe redefined entire genres, and while Hendrix may have re-engineered what you could do with a guitar, the songs he wrote didn't do much of anything for the psychedelic rock genre.

Bob Dylan was a tough one, but I'm not sure what I'd pick otherwise.

Other albums I cut:
Boards of Canada - Music Has the Right To Children (IDM)
Kraftwerk - Autobahn (Electronica)
Led Zeppelin - IV (Hard Rock)
Talking Heads - Remain in Light (New Wave)
The Roots - Phrenology (Hip Hop)

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:41:14 2010 No.644293 File: 46 KB, 453x468, HEAD_TRAUMA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] <my face if ulysses is not picked

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:42:14 2010 No.644294 >>644288 At first I saw Blood Meridian and thought fuck year! Then I saw the rest of your shit taste and realized that you could probably win some kind of posthumous service medal for killing yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:43:14 2010 No.644295 File: 178 KB, 640x624, KUBRICK.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sat May 8 09:44:14 2010 No.644296

>>644293
Just because a work is OMGSXPERIMENTAL does not make it great literature.
You're just envious that you can't right a book about that one time you woke up, munched on a sandwhich and took a piss and get it published, no matter how hard you try and how hipster you try to make it.
Ulysses sucks Mongol balls.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:44:14 2010 No.644297 >>644167 we were one or two votes away too

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:44:14 2010 No.644298 >>644295 best artist-all centuries

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:44:14 2010 No.644299 File: 28 KB, 627x442, 1271565436189.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>644275 Hoo boy you are sure one butthurt motherfucker aren't you? Picture related, it's you and your ilk.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:44:14 2010 No.644300 File: 49 KB, 384x287, bill_hader(3).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Ulysses

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:45:14 2010 No.644304 >>644299 >implying those aren't hipsters in your pic

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:46:14 2010 No.644305 >>644296 The point is it's experimental. it should be picked even though SOME people don't approve. (looking in your direction anon)

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:47:14 2010 No.644306 >>644299 Fuck off, it's Saturday, I can be fat and lazy and gross for a day if I want to. I always go back to being a skinny, clean well kept metro on weekdays anyway.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:48:14 2010 No.644309 >>644299 What bothers me is that there are still people who take Bob Dylan seriously as an artist.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:48:14 2010 No.644310 >>644287 oh you >>644292 Dude, what about Bruce Haack's album ELECTRIC LUCIFER that basically started electronica?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:49:14 2010 No.644312 >>644309 seriously bob dylan was popular because?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:50:14 2010 No.644318 Monte Cazzazza

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:51:14 2010 No.644321 >>644312 Bob Dylan was popular because LOLPROTEST LOVE N PEACE MAN. His lyrics were asinine and better vocals can likely be heard at a group home for the mentally disabled.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:51:14 2010 No.644322 File: 92 KB, 800x800, Highway_61_Revisited.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Don't mind me, just being better than Dark side of the moon and Sgt pepper's put together.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:52:14 2010 No.644325 >>644292 You like Kraftwerk so LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE Let's listen to Man-Machine and jack each other off some time >>644318 FUUUUCKKK YESSSS

Anonymous Sat May 8 09:52:14 2010 No.644327

>>644309
>>644312

Because he was a masterful lyricist, songwriter, and musician all around, not to mention he was literally considered a LEADER of a folk music based cultural revolution during the Greenwich village golden era (even though he never considered himself such).

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:53:14 2010 No.644330 >>644321 >The beatles were popular because LOLPROTEST LOVE N PEACE MAN Could apply to any 60s-70s band, man.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:53:14 2010 No.644331 >>644322 Kike underwear salesman made a whiney album where he bitches and moans to the delight of baby boomer housewives nationwide, who knew

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:54:14 2010 No.644333 >>644330 The difference is that The Beatles were actually creative.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:54:14 2010 No.644334 >>644331 sure is mad in here

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:54:14 2010 No.644336 >>644333 >creative Yeah, no. 90% of their songs about love.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:54:14 2010 No.644337 >>644331 >kike stopped reading right there. Your opinions are invalidated simply because you refuse to take race out of the equation, you're just a shitty troll.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:55:14 2010 No.644338 what did eric clapton do except kill his son and write a hit song about it?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:55:14 2010 No.644339 File: 55 KB, 475x475, blonde_on_blonde.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>644322 is if Blonde on Blonde were not the better album by Dylan.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:56:14 2010 No.644344 >>644333 >I wanna hold your haaaaaaand >I wanna hold your hand. Woah, creativity overload.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:56:14 2010 No.644345 >>644327 >>644336 >implying being a leader of folk music is something to be proud of

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:57:14 2010 No.644349 >>644344 Later Beatles you fucking faggot, not their fucking earlier shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:57:14 2010 No.644351 >>644344 lol'd

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:58:14 2010 No.644352 You know, if the 60s and 70s had been dominated by Kurdish folk music or Russian love ballads it would actually be a respectable decade for music.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:59:14 2010 No.644356 beatles were back then what my chemical romance was in 00's

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 09:59:14 2010 No.644357 >>644337 My problem as a Jew isn't with his race, it's that he abandoned his religion to worship that hippie faggot who let his pussy ass get nailed to a cross. That's irrelevant to his music, however, though that sucks as well.

Anonymous Sat May 8 09:59:14 2010 No.644358

>>644339
I've never understood the obsession with Blonde on Blonde, it's a great album, with plenty of fun and meaningful songs, but I feel like it's Dylan at his most immature. Highway 61 revisited deals with mature topics like a rich woman having to suddenly deal with poverty because of the way the world changes, and Blood on the Tracks deals with complex adult emotions, grief, loss, love, detachment, disgust, etc.

Meanwhile Blonde on Blonde is all "LETS ALL GET STOOOOONED"/"BABY I WANT TO FUCK YOU WHILE YOU WEAR THAT LEOPARD PRINT HAAAAT"

Not that I'm downplaying the significance of these works, as they do hold more meaning, but they deal with less mature topics, and are presented in a very childish way, don't you think?

(I still put Blonde on Blonde in his top three, however)

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:02:14 2010 No.644365 >>644358 maybe because people like the immature Dylan, rebelling against the folk-purists and not yet fucked up beyond recognition by his christfaggotry/motorcycle accident.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:02:14 2010 No.644366 >>644358 1. Highway 61 revisited 2. Bringing it all back home 3. Blonde on blonde imo

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:05:14 2010 No.644373 >>644365 The immature Dylan was just as bad as the "mature" Dylan. Whiney vocals are whiney. No need to mention that the instrumentals on his albums are a dulled, watered-and-shitted down ripoff of the work of much, much better black blues guitarists.

Anonymous Sat May 8 10:05:14 2010 No.644375

>>644366
For me:
1. Blood on the Tracks
2. Bringing it All Back Home
3. Blonde on Blonde

but I can agree with your choices, after all, they're all very good. It's simply a matter of personal preference.

>>644365
That's completely reasonable. Personally, I believe he just went old and crazy for a while, and that we can all just forget about his christfag movement. After all, he cleaned himself up really well with Time Out of Mind.

I actually secretly believe he was fed up with the fame and went jesus freak to troll everyone.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:08:14 2010 No.644379 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcJVe8OF4sM Dylan at his best

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:11:14 2010 No.644384 File: 20 KB, 512x512, Velvet_Underground_and_Nico.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] One of the greatest albums of the 20th century

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:11:14 2010 No.644386 take it to /mu/ please ^_^

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:12:14 2010 No.644391 >>644384 absolutely..people make it out like Nico is no good but i like the strangeness in her voice...

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:12:14 2010 No.644394 >>644294 oh cool. you have an opinion on books, sir. welcome to /lit/

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:15:14 2010 No.644405 >>644386 Yeah, okay sorry.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:15:14 2010 No.644406 >>644384 This is the best.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:16:14 2010 No.644410 >>644386 brother, have you ever tried discussing music on /mu/? It's quite the spectacle. This is the first legitimate discussion about Bob Dylan I've had on 4chan in three years.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:19:14 2010 No.644413 File: 62 KB, 479x682, naked_lunch_prospectus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Either this or Ulysses, srsly guize

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:24:14 2010 No.644419 Doesn't seem so popular around here, but I wouldn't hesitate to give my vote to Lolita.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:24:14 2010 No.644420 >>644413 Bullshit, Burroughs would have been nothing without Miller.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:27:14 2010 No.644426 Also, you're all dumb if you don't choose Ulysses. There's absolutely no competition, and anyone who believes otherwise is a twat.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:28:14 2010 No.644428 >>644391 Having lived most part of my life where Nico came from, I don't find her voice strange. Just butt-ass ugly.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:29:14 2010 No.644431 Music: Abbey Road Film: Super Troopers Literature: Grapes of Wrath Videogames: are for fags. Art: Alex Grey

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:31:14 2010 No.644434 >>644431 i also enjoy trolling

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:31:14 2010 No.644436 File: 115 KB, 600x514, Paryż_notre-dame_rozeta_Lestat (Custom).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Music: Mass in B Minor Literature: Divine Comedy Art: Chartres Cathedral

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:33:14 2010 No.644439 for lit I'd say Hitchhiker's Guide. Film, Casablanca. Vidya, Zelda Ocarina of Time. (Obviously) Art, Anything Warhol.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:34:14 2010 No.644442 Literature: True History of the Kelly Gang Music: Mahler's Ninth Symphony Film: Metropolis Video game: Tetris Art: Guernica

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:34:14 2010 No.644443 /mu/ doesn't know jack shit about anything other than the top 40

Anonymous Sat May 8 10:35:14 2010 No.644446

>>644439

Have any of you morons actually played Ocarina of Time recently? The game is simply garbage. It's not remotely as good as you remember it to be. The story is a joke, there's almost no writing, the character models are disgusting and I can't think of anything at all memorable about it. Garbage.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:36:14 2010 No.644448 >>644446 I just replayed it yesterday, I was just as amazed with the fight against Bongo Bongo as I was seven years ago.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:36:14 2010 No.644449 >>644345 >implying bob dylan was a leader of folk music

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:37:14 2010 No.644451 Literature: Brave New World Music: "The Planets: Gustav Holst Film: Alfred Hitchcock Vidya: Fuck off, please. Art: ..Roger Dean

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:38:14 2010 No.644454 >>644448 So a fight scene from a video game is what you consider art? Cristo.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:39:14 2010 No.644456 Sartor Resartus by Carlyle, goddamn certainly not dostoevsky, or camus, or any of that stupid existential nonsense

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:40:14 2010 No.644457 >>644454 A Clockwork Orange

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:41:14 2010 No.644459 >>644457 I don't follow. Explain.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:42:14 2010 No.644463 >>644459 (Talking about the movie) It had fight scenes in, with, against and especially as art. I was just arguing that fights or violence can be art. Though I agree that this probably is not true at all for ANY video game.

Anonymous Sat May 8 10:45:14 2010 No.644465

>>644463

From what I recall of reading the book the fight scenes were minimal, if there were any at all (maybe one?). What I'm saying is that it wasn't the fight scene that made the book or the movie art. There might not have been any at all and it wouldn't have hurt it. What this man is saying is that a fight scene declared a video game as art, which is obviously absurd.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:46:14 2010 No.644466 my vote goes for Sun also Rises

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:47:14 2010 No.644467 >>644465 Watch the movie. It's beautiful.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:47:14 2010 No.644468 >>644467 I have seen it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:48:14 2010 No.644470 >>644468 Well watch it again.

Anonymous Sat May 8 10:50:14 2010 No.644472

>>644470

Why? Are you trying to tell me that had the movie been made without any fight scenes it would cease to be considered art? Obviously not. Can the same thing be said about Zelda? No. So it's not art, and even if it were, it's a poor example of one.

Anonymous Sat May 8 10:53:14 2010 No.644474
File: 917 KB, 1280x768, vlcsnap-2010-04-20-20h05m32s38.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>644472
Well no I wasn't trying to say anything there. Though I would say that the whole theme or "message", for lack of a better word, would be completely lost without the fight scenes.

But I was just telling you to watch it again because it's astonishingly awesome and one of the rare cases, where the movie adaption is better than the book.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:54:14 2010 No.644478 ITT people who chose Ulysses, people who haven't read Ulysses, people who missed the fact only the 20th century is being taken into consideration and people with decent musical tastes. Quite a diverse crowd. Also, Ulysses gets my vote.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 10:59:14 2010 No.644487 >>644442 >Mahler 9 yessssssssss yes yes yes

Anonymous Sat May 8 11:07:14 2010 No.644508

I'm surprised at all the Ulysses votes. Sure, Joyce is a wordsmith par excellence, and he was truly original, but that's where it ends. Ulysses doesn't put forward any groundbreaking ideas, the characters are all there to serve the words, and he pretty much completely eschews plot.

Borges fucking invented deconstruction and reader-response criticism half a century before anyone else caught on, AND he could write on top of it..

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:08:14 2010 No.644510 >>644487 Just gonna go ahead and agree with this.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:10:14 2010 No.644513 >>644508 I'm pretty sure Henry James was already on track with the reader-response.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:17:14 2010 No.644524 >>644508 also read gogol's intro to dead souls.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:19:14 2010 No.644528 >>644508 Face it, Borges is great, but Joyce is a mad genius. It is unlikely we'll ever see another writer like him.

Anonymous Sat May 8 11:20:14 2010 No.644532

I'm just going to say Ulysses because of it's greatness...there's no need for us to be innovators of choice just give it the credit. Joyce has been a rallying point of /lit/ from almost the inception. I think we can feel okay with our choice if we choose something like Ulysses.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:24:14 2010 No.644537 >>644532 >I'm just going to say Ulysses because of it's greatness >I'm just going to say Ulysses because of it is greatness >because of it is greatness >it is greatness

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:25:14 2010 No.644538 >>644532 OK, but why is it so great?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:27:14 2010 No.644542 >>644537 isn't it? a providential typo i would say

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:28:14 2010 No.644544 >>644538 It is great because, ultimately, it cannot be reproduced.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:29:14 2010 No.644546 ''The Mercy Seat'' by Nick Cave for best music.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:30:14 2010 No.644547 >>644546 >Nick Cave >Mid-life crisis aged goth detected

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:31:14 2010 No.644548 >>644547 >23 >midlife wait...yeah probably you're right more like 4/5ths really

Anonymous Sat May 8 11:36:14 2010 No.644554

OP here. Got back from a trip to downtown.

To all the musicfags here. Yeah, Perriot Lunaire could've won if only it got a couple of more votes... and I'm very dissapointed In The Court of the Crimson King got only one vote and absolutely NO votes for Sgt. Pepper's.

Anyway, here's the current tally:

Ulysses: 13 votes!
Catch-22: 4 votes
1984: 4 votes
The Trial: 4 votes
A Clockwork Orange: 3 votes
Mrs. Dalloway: 3 votes
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: 2 votes
Blood Meridian: 2 votes.

The voting's still on!

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:37:14 2010 No.644555 MRS DALLOWAY

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:40:14 2010 No.644559 1984 blood merdian

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:52:14 2010 No.644585 Another vote for 1984. It more than any other book has shaped the world we live in.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:52:14 2010 No.644587 mrs dalloway pls

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:54:14 2010 No.644592 1984

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:55:14 2010 No.644594 What the fuck is this /b/ faggotry doing here

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:58:14 2010 No.644599 File: 837 KB, 1051x1024, 1271167312864 copy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:59:14 2010 No.644602 Gatsby. I really think. also, /v/ will never agree.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 11:59:14 2010 No.644604 >>644554 You forgot at least 'Crime and Punishment' and 'The Great Gatsby".

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:03:14 2010 No.644614 >>644604 Dostoyevsky is 19th century. And Gatsby currently has 3 votes. Thanks for pointing it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:09:14 2010 No.644621 Theatre isn't included in this mosaic :/

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:10:14 2010 No.644623 >>644621 Theatre's gay.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:15:14 2010 No.644630 >>644623 theatre's a hugely important art form.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:16:14 2010 No.644632 The Great Gatsby

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:17:14 2010 No.644633 >>644621 Plays can be technically considered literature.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:19:14 2010 No.644637 >>644633 The play itself, yes, but only as a text. You couldn't say any particular play was better because the performance at such-and-such was excellent.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:21:14 2010 No.644640 >>644637 Yeah. This is pretty much why I left theatre out of the picture. It deppends on the actors themselves, and the acting is inconsistent for each play.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:23:14 2010 No.644644 Howl, by Allen Ginsberg

>>	FirstCitizen !f47jBj1OxQ Sat May 8 12:24:14 2010 No.644650 >>644644 >>644644 >>644644 >>644644 >>644644 the unprecedented correct answer.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:27:14 2010 No.644656 Ulysses, faggots!

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:29:14 2010 No.644666 Alice's Adventures In Wonderland.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:30:14 2010 No.644670 great gatsby

Anonymous Sat May 8 12:32:14 2010 No.644681

Damn, it actually might be Ulysses. Pale Fire is also superb.

And seriously, what basement trolls think Dark Side of the Moon is the best album of anything? Maybe they meant album art...? Inb4 name something better: F sharp, A sharp, Infinity; about eight Bob Dylan albums; fucking 36 Chambers; the list goes on...

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:34:14 2010 No.644686 >>644681 Darkside is more of a compromise than anything, as you could probably imagine. Like, I think it's better than what you just listed, but there's music I personally prefer to it too.

Anonymous Sat May 8 12:34:14 2010 No.644689

I refuse to participate in this exercise because 1) it's impossible to consider any one book the 'greatest' in the 20th century, and in fact it is a futile and puerile exercise that betrays a pretty stupid view of literature and 2) I don't want to sully any other great works of fiction by including it with Dark Side of the Moon and then Banjo Kazooie or whatever shitty video game they come up with (for reference, I'm not saying video games can't be art, I'm just saying that none of the video games that exist are, in fact, art)

Anonymous Sat May 8 12:39:14 2010 No.644703

>>644686

OP here.

Well, could be pretty much said that way. /mu/ thought of that, too. As for me, it IS my most favourite album ever.

And 'sides, it's the third best-selling album, been on the billboard 200 for 14 years, etc. And the songs are all carefuly constructed in such a way it could only be considered great art.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 12:46:14 2010 No.644715 lolita

Anonymous Sat May 8 13:14:14 2010 No.644798

Current tally:

Ulysses: 14 votes
1984: 7 votes
The Great Gatsby: 5 votes
Mrs. Dalloway: 5 votes
Catch-22: 4 votes
The Trial: 4 votes
A Clockwork Orange: 3 votes
Blood Meridian: 3 votes
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: 2 votes
Lolita: 2 votes
Howl: 2 votes

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:18:14 2010 No.644806 Blood Meridian and The Great Gatsby

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:19:14 2010 No.644808 Blood Meridian.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:20:14 2010 No.644811 mrs dalloway

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:20:14 2010 No.644815 >>644798 Ulysses. Hands down.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:22:14 2010 No.644817 Ulysses

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:23:14 2010 No.644824 >>644798 What a shitty century for literature, honestly.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:23:14 2010 No.644827 I call bs on DSotM being the greatest piece of 20th century art. It isn't even close to Pink Floyd's best album.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:24:14 2010 No.644829 Mrs Dalloway!

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:25:14 2010 No.644831 i would also like to register my vote for mrs dalloway also pink floyd greatest music of the 20th century? lol

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:25:14 2010 No.644832 >>644824 What a shitty century for most things.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:29:14 2010 No.644841 CAT'S CRADLE Kurt Vonnegut ftw

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:38:14 2010 No.644860 Catch-22

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:38:14 2010 No.644863 mrs dalloway for sure

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:39:14 2010 No.644867 The Catcher in the Rye

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:51:14 2010 No.644905 So basically, your answer for each question is based on 4chan's most popular answer? You realize each section is basically a troll answer then?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:57:14 2010 No.644924 >>644905 Note: In The Aeroplane Over The Sea DIDN'T win the music spot.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:58:14 2010 No.644926 >>644924 only because OP is a faggot and refused to count votes for it

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 13:59:14 2010 No.644929 File: 35 KB, 320x320, neutralmilkhotel-intheaeroplaneoverthesea.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>644924

Anonymous Sat May 8 14:01:14 2010 No.644936

>>644926
he's refusing counts? haha, what an idiot. he's trying his best not to get trolled but pink floyd really isn't any better.

sure, I enjoy the music, but I would probably throw my vote towards contemporary classical or even something from the jazz age. hell, if it was going to be rock music i would throw my vote towards modest mouse before pink floyd.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 14:10:14 2010 No.644957 >>644936 It's as if he ignored votes for Atlas Shrugged, but counted all the votes for 1984. Oh lawdy

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 14:11:14 2010 No.644960 mrs. dalloway

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 14:12:14 2010 No.644962 Robert Ebert said that video games aren't art and I have to agree with him. That being said, a video game square should not be there.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 14:26:14 2010 No.645010 >>644962 roger ebert doesn't even play games his opinion on the matter is as valid as that of every kid you've ever met who says doesn't read but calls books boring

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 14:37:14 2010 No.645050 Ulysses. Best book, despite the fact that most people can't make heads or tails of it.

Anonymous Sat May 8 14:42:14 2010 No.645062

hatersgonnahate.jpg

Ulysses: 17 votes
Mrs. Dalloway: 10 votes
1984: 7 votes
The Great Gatsby: 6 votes
Catch-22: 5 votes
Blood Meridian: 5 votes
The Trial: 4 votes
A Clockwork Orange: 3 votes
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: 2 votes
Lolita: 2 votes
Howl: 2 votes

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 14:47:14 2010 No.645087 >>645062 Keep the polls open, goddammit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 14:55:14 2010 No.645102 Cat's Cradle

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 14:55:14 2010 No.645103 Blood Meridian

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 14:56:14 2010 No.645104 >>645062 rofl are we really voting for ulysses?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 14:58:14 2010 No.645110 >>645062 It's not like it matters. Pink floyd wasn't the most voted for albulm in /mu/.

>>	DogFrog Sat May 8 14:59:14 2010 No.645112 Uysses. x10.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:02:14 2010 No.645121 seriously i'm voting for Joyce's love letters WHOS WITH ME?!

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:03:14 2010 No.645123 A Clockwork Orange Faggots.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:07:14 2010 No.645129 >>645123 Burgess himself thought A Clockwork Orange was a PoS.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:09:14 2010 No.645132 Replace the video games square with a category for lolcats and poll /b/

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:10:14 2010 No.645134 File: 18 KB, 322x500, burgess.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Anthony Burgess says Ulysees

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:12:15 2010 No.645137 File: 116 KB, 340x500, 3039316367_9c21227b49.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Another vote for the Brothers Karamazov

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:16:14 2010 No.645147

Ulysses: 19 votes
Mrs. Dalloway: 10 votes
1984: 7 votes
Blood Meridian: 6 votes
The Great Gatsby: 6 votes
Catch-22: 5 votes
The Trial: 4 votes
A Clockwork Orange: 4 votes
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: 2 votes
Lolita: 2 votes
Howl: 2 votes
Cat's Cradle: 2 votes

You might wanna resolve this within 3 hours. It's 21:15 out here.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:17:14 2010 No.645150 MOTHERFUCKING ULYSSES

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:20:14 2010 No.645163 Blood Meridian.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:21:14 2010 No.645164 My vote goes to Ulysses, followed swiftly by Lolita.

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:22:14 2010 No.645171

Ulysses is going to win, and I can't say it doesn't deserve it, but I have to give my vote to In Search of Lost Time. Or I guess I should say A la recherche du temps perdu, because it's presumably better in the original French even though I'm only able to read translations.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:24:14 2010 No.645177 SlaughterHouse-V, or the children's crusade: A duty dance with death (1969)

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:25:14 2010 No.645181 >>645171 I've got an article for you to read. https://wwwx.cs.unc.edu/~hays/humor/crawling_up_everest.html

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:31:14 2010 No.645194
File: 28 KB, 339x512, bill-murray.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

As the only person posting in this thread who has published 3 books, although no-one will ever believe me, I'll resolve this.

Ulysses: 19 votes
Just as good as everybody says. The pinnacle of 20th century fiction, does both realism and stylistic extravagance with equal facility.

Mrs. Dalloway: 10 votes
Clearly these votes were all women, no offence. Woolf is overrated, especially by high school English teachers. If you want to find a great woman writer, choose Emily Dickinson. Problem: Emily's too intelligent for most readers, male or female.

1984: 7 votes
Meh. I think Homage to Catalonia or the Road to Wigan Pier are better books by the same author. But it's worth reading to get you to think critically about what television is doing to us.

Blood Meridian: 6 votes
Overwrought, overelaborate, clearly written by McCarthy with his scabby cock in one hand and Roget's thesaurus in the other. I sorta enjoyed it. Plus, it's the only major novel to be referenced in a Vampire Weekend song ("A-Punk") and parodied in a film (Owen Wilson in the Royal Tennenbaums is playing Cormac McCarthy..."I am the James Joyce of the Western. My novel Wildcat is written in an obsolete vernacular.")

The Great Gatsby: 6 votes
Good solid choice. Intriguingly American insofar as it begins as a broad social satire and ends with a strangely bleak and desperate religious vision. For that reason, I approve of anybody who voted for it.

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:32:14 2010 No.645198
File: 20 KB, 360x453, bill_murray_original(1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Catch-22: 5 votes
Read it again. It's not as good as you thought. Overrated.

The Trial: 4 votes
Hm. Not a bad choice. But if you realize that it's meant to be a comedy, then I approve of your vote. Philip Roth once said he could only read it while imaging Groucho Marx playing Josef K and the other Marx Brothers playing the interrogators, etc. This is the proper spirit to read Kafka, but very few readers of Kafka know this. So I'd have to know your motivations to know if you wasted your vote or not. Did you find it funny? You should.

A Clockwork Orange: 4 votes
As a way of learning Russian while getting over your teenage angst, it's a fine book. Earthly Powers is better, and will teach you about the history of the 20th century, not just a brief paranoid moment in the Cold War. And Burgess himself thought M/F was his best work. Go figure.

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: 2 votes
My favorite book when I was a child. I still have a towel named Roosta. But seriously, I've read a lot more since then.

Lolita: 2 votes
Why not. Nabokov is great. I prefer Pale Fire but I'm in the minority on that, although Mary McCarthy agrees with me.

Howl: 2 votes
GOD NO. That's not writing, that's typing. Anybody can drop acid and get fucked in the ass by a saintly motorcyclist. You don't even have to do it, you can just pretend, and suddenly an untalented woman is superhot gay writer "JT Leroy". Please. Ginsberg is barely a poet. If you like faux-biblical catalogue poetry, read Whitman. If you like gay writers with actual talent, read Ashbery O'Hara and Schuyler.

Cat's Cradle: 2 votes
I approve. But then, I am considering converting to Bokononism. Vonnegut is a major writer, with a broad and intelligent readership, the only people who refuse to take him seriously are professors who want to keep the James Joyce Industry in business.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:32:14 2010 No.645199 >>645194 gtfo

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:35:14 2010 No.645209
File: 13 KB, 274x400, bill-murray2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>gtfo

No. Seeing as this thread has enough pseudo-intellectuals posting, I thought you might want to see what a real intellectual might say.

I'd give you my list of published work (which spans genres) but no-one would ever believe me. So just take my opinions for what they're worth. I am definitely smarter than your high school English teacher. And I might even be on your college lit syllabus---I am in some schools.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:37:14 2010 No.645212 >>645209 Name, sir?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:37:14 2010 No.645213 >>645194 hi max

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:38:14 2010 No.645217 File: 43 KB, 530x398, pretentious.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>645209

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:38:14 2010 No.645222

I think it's fucking retarded that you all voted Ulysses as the best work of literature. I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume that most of you only like the book because you have heard how amazing it is and want to appear as if you have good taste in literature. Fuck you /lit/, grow a spine and stop pretending to appreciate shit most of you don't understand. I bet you liked Finnegans Wake, too, you pretentious fucks.

My vote goes to Lolita, simply because I enjoyed it the most.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:40:14 2010 No.645229 >>645209 You are certainly not on my college syllabus. And by my syllabus, I mean the one that I created for my students.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:41:14 2010 No.645236 >>645222 You're right, I did do that. No, really. In my defense, I really do suspect Ulysses to be one of the greatest works ever. But I have trouble critically evaluating the opinions of others, and accept them probably more than I should.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:41:14 2010 No.645238 >>645209 fuckin' max brooks. your books suck

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:42:14 2010 No.645241
File: 41 KB, 350x450, r14793_36276.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>Name, sir?

Wish I could tell you. But I post more often on /b/ and so I prefer to remain ANON. I only come on here to give genuine advice to the intelligent. I go on /b/ to remind myself of what America is really about, and to find people who are as nihilistic as I was in high school.

So I won't give my name or list my published work, but I'm happy to share opinions or answer questions about literature. Dr Samuel Johnson said it was pointless to KNOW a writer anyway, they put the best of themselves into their writing. And here I am writing to you all, for free. So ask anything but my name or my work, and I'll write you a response, gratis.

I will admit that my name is not "Bill Murray", but then no-one would ever believe me.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:43:14 2010 No.645248 >>fuckin' max brooks. I wish both my parents had Oscars. It would make it easier for me to try being a writer in today's marketplace. Does Max Brooks really post on here?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:43:14 2010 No.645252 What time is it in Australia?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:44:14 2010 No.645257 >>And by my syllabus, I mean the one that I created for my students. Oh, what's on your syllabus, smartypants? Baudelaire and Toni Morrison?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:44:14 2010 No.645258 Blood Meridian gets my vote Ulysses is terrible, everyone who posts that is an arse full of farts

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:44:14 2010 No.645260 >>645241 tldr; You're not Bill Murray and you've never actually written a book before. inb4 being proud of your work.

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:46:14 2010 No.645269

>>You are certainly not on my college syllabus. And by my syllabus, I mean the one that I created for my students.

Then you don't teach at Columbia or Princeton or Yale, or you are simply not one of the persons at those institutions who teach my work.

But I'd rather talk with people who come on here to talk about books because they can't go to institutions like that. And I'd rather be honest with them in a way that professional academics never are.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:47:14 2010 No.645271 >>645257 This semester, my syllabus included: Don DeLillo, Percival Everett, Richard Powers, Matthew Sharpe, Tim O'Brien, Paul Harding, and Steven Millhauser.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:47:14 2010 No.645273 >>645241 How old are you?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:47:14 2010 No.645275 >>645269 >I'm so smart that I think it's necessary to use two >'s to quote someone

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:48:14 2010 No.645276 >>645271 I bet it's Don Delillo... totally seems like a 4chan kinda guy.

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:48:14 2010 No.645277

>>tldr; You're not Bill Murray and you've never actually written a book before.

I love the fact that people use "tldr" on a fucking LITERATURE board. Count Lev Tolstoy is spinning in his grave, tovarish.

Why don't you call this a Turing Test? I am a well-regarded if not famous published author, in several genres. I will tell you anything but my name, titles of my work, or biographical facts. So why don't you ask me things to see what a professional writer speaks like from behind the Isaic veil of anonymity?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:49:14 2010 No.645279 >>645269 Alright, I almost believed you until you used Columbia, Yale, and Princeton as models for good literary colleges. Go back to /b/ and troll.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:50:14 2010 No.645282 >>645277 I like that idea. A Turing test for an author... Ok... first question... How does one go about getting something published?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:50:14 2010 No.645285 >>645282 That question is far too easy, think harder fag.

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:52:14 2010 No.645295

>>645282
in b4 write a lot and submit a lot and work very, very hard.

Just get a literary agent (if you can) and then write a shitty novel that your shitty academic friends will praise in the shitty publications that they guest edit. Then, you just have to write one shitty book every year or so that your shitty friends will, once again, praise in their shitty publications.

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:52:14 2010 No.645296
File: 53 KB, 423x317, pynchon_house.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>Don DeLillo, Percival Everett, Richard Powers, Matthew Sharpe, Tim O'Brien, Paul Harding, and Steven Millhauser.

I'm not any of them. I only like the alternate ones you list. Huge fan of DeLillo and read whatever I can get my hands on, including his pseudonymous autobiography of a female hockey player (the title of which escapes me), great respect for Powers but haven't read all of him (not enough time), appreciate O'Brien and glad he's on syllabi. The rest of the writers you listed...not really my taste.

>>How old are you?

I said, no autobiographical facts.

>>I bet it's Don Delillo... totally seems like a 4chan kinda guy.

Might also explain my unwillingness to discuss autobiography unless....could it possibly be?

No. I'm not.

But did you ever notice "The Crying of Lot 49" is a lot easier than most people think? Read it. Thurn & Taxis in Italian is "Torquato Tasso"....a famously insane genius. It's a puzzle book like "Pale Fire" only nobody has noticed.

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:53:14 2010 No.645302

>>Alright, I almost believed you until you used Columbia, Yale, and Princeton as models for good literary colleges.

If you think that Edward Mendelson, or John Hollander or even Harold fucking Bloom, or even Elaine fucking Showalter (when she taught at P'ton) are not people worth learning from, I have no clue where YOU teach.

The University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople, presumably.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:55:14 2010 No.645309 >>645277 What area of the country do you live in? What range of age are you in? Are you currently in a relationship with anyone? Would you be willing to have a one-night sexual encounter with a young fangirl?

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:56:14 2010 No.645313
File: 2 KB, 110x83, obey.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>645277

What's the royalty situation with your books that were published as Kindle editions?

Do they mix it in with the print figures (and take deductions out of the e-book sales for the paper book earn-out) or is it a separate break out?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:57:14 2010 No.645316 >>645313 That's more like it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:59:14 2010 No.645322 Have you read Point Omega yet? If so, what'd you think?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 15:59:14 2010 No.645324 >>645241 >So ask anything Why aren't you starting a new thread for this nonsense?

Anonymous Sat May 8 15:59:14 2010 No.645325
File: 904 KB, 2598x3943, pynchon001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>Ok... first question... How does one go about getting something published?

How did I do it? I wrote a fan letter to a writer I truly admired, the kind of letter that let him know how seriously I took his work. He wrote back, surprised that somebody cared about the work and wasn't just asking for help with writing a term paper. He asked me to lunch. I took a train to NYC and had lunch with him. He told me if I ever wrote something he would be glad to read it. It took me several years to write something good enough to send to him. I sent it to him. He said his agent wasn't taking new clients but there were other people in the same agency, bla bla bla.

In other words, my parents were working class and not college educated. I was a kid who just spent a lot of time in libraries to avoid having to play sports or dealing with idiots. Lots of people advance in literature because they are well connected. (Look at Frieda Hughes...do you actually think her poems are published because she's GOOD? Think again.) I had no connections. So I made one.

If you don't know how to contact your favorite writer, find out if their manuscripts etc are collected by a library. (Like the Harry Ransom Humanities Center at UT Austin, who buy almost everybody.) Call the library and ask how you could get in contact with the writer. Don't act like a fan. Tell them you're a junior faculty at the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople, or something.

And if you want to contact Thomas Pynchon, do it this way:

Melanie Jackson (Mrs Thomas Pynchon)
The Melanie Jackson Agency.
250 West 57th Street, Suite 1119,
New York, NY 10019 .

Be sure to include the secret Trystero symbol on the back of the stamp.

>>	What !mQ6mClq8pY Sat May 8 16:00:14 2010 No.645329 File: 193 KB, 672x686, Golden_Sun_Box_Art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] T"his is what I like, alright? shut the fuck up.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:01:14 2010 No.645330

>>What area of the country do you live in?

East coast.

>>What range of age are you in?

30s

>>Are you currently in a relationship with anyone?

Yes.

>>Would you be willing to have a one-night sexual encounter with a young fangirl?

In theory, yes. In practice, we could cyber. I'm better in writing than in the flesh.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:01:14 2010 No.645332 >>645329 he painted starry night in 1889, dr. retard

>>	What !mQ6mClq8pY Sat May 8 16:02:14 2010 No.645334 >>645332 THIS IS WHAT I LIKE FAGGOT. reported.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:03:14 2010 No.645339

>>What's the royalty situation with your books that were published as Kindle editions? Do they mix it in with the print figures (and take deductions out of the e-book sales for the paper book earn-out) or is it a separate break out?

None of my work has been published in Kindle editions, I don't think. I may have had stuff included in anthologies that made it onto Kindle, but contracting for anthologies is entirely different.

I mean, all I know about Kindle stuff is what friends who are involved in the publishing world (rather than what gets published) have to say. And it seems like the Kindle is more for people who like genre fiction (romance novels, horror novels, etc). And I don't write genre fiction.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:05:14 2010 No.645340 >>645334 >reported wait, what?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:06:14 2010 No.645343 >>645334 It's cool if you like it, but it wasn't 20th century. Neither was some of ASoIaF. And the GBA was released in 2001.

>>	What !mQ6mClq8pY Sat May 8 16:06:14 2010 No.645344 File: 28 KB, 546x551, 1191037002589.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>645340 That's right.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:06:14 2010 No.645345 >>645277 >I don't write genre fiction >>645339 I am a well-regarded if not famous published author, in several genres. HUH?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:08:14 2010 No.645350 LORD OF THE RINGS. Huge universe that had a huge impact on following writers, directors, even the way the public perceived fantasy. Get your Karamazov bullshit out of here.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:09:14 2010 No.645352

>>Why aren't you starting a new thread for this nonsense?

Believe it or not, humility. If I started a thread called "Ask a professional writer anything" I'd mostly be swamped with people acting like I'd posted "Ask Bill Murray anything." Nobody will ever believe me.

So just take my word for it I'm a real writer, I'm fairly well-respected, I am well connected, and if you'd like a separate thread in which I answer these questions, then you start one, give a link here, and I'll move.

>>Have you read Point Omega yet? If so, what'd you think?

No I haven't, but I'm looking forward to it. I have a longstanding interest in Teilhard de Chardin, and I was wondering when somebody would bring him up as a way of combatting the stupidity of Richard Dawkins. And DON'T let's get started on religion. I'm an agnostic, I just happen to think it's a more defensible philosophical position than Dawkins's gnostic atheism, but the main reason is that I have friends with sincere religious beliefs in every possible crazy religion, and I see no reason to stomp on the sincerity of their beliefs Dawkins-style because I try to be humble and openminded about everything. I think Brian Josephson is a better scientist than Dawkins and guess what, the Nobel Prize Committee agrees with me.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:10:14 2010 No.645357 OP here. How is Kafka's Trial a comedy? It was pretty fucking depressing when I first read it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:12:14 2010 No.645360 >>645352 >humility. >multiple posts explaining how smart he is. Cool story, bro.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:13:14 2010 No.645363

>>I don't write genre fiction
>>I am a well-regarded if not famous published author, in several genres.
>>HUH?

Two uses of the same word. "Genre fiction" is a term of art in the publishing industry, for the kinds of paperback books that---when they don't sell---the chain bookstores rip off the covers and mail them back to the publisher for a refund. Horror novels, Romance novels, Westerns (if anybody still reads westerns)....this is what is called "Genre Fiction".

But when a writer says he or she works in "several genres" what he or she means is: fiction, short stories poetry (epic or lyric), drama (prose or poetic), occasional journalism, essays, literary criticism, cookbooks, etc. In other words, Tommy Pynchon has never written a play. He has written occasional journalism ("A Journey into the Mind of Watts" for the NY Times) and essays (a good essay on Sloth published in a 1994 anthology, if memory serves). But you wouldn't really call Pynchon a "writer in several genres" because he's basically a writer of fiction, who has dabbled in some non-fiction.

Whereas, uh, Goethe was a writer in "several genres" because he wrote poetry, drama, prose fiction, non-fiction, scientific musings, etc, etc.

Whereas Zane Grey or Anne Rice are "writers of genre fiction".

Make sense?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:15:14 2010 No.645368 >>645352 Unfortunately, he doesn't really get into that sort of thing, as the title might suggest. I wish he had, because those ideas really have a lot of potential.

>>	What !mQ6mClq8pY Sat May 8 16:16:14 2010 No.645371 File: 287 KB, 669x660, sgdfg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	What !mQ6mClq8pY Sat May 8 16:17:14 2010 No.645372 >>645371 Happy now?

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:19:14 2010 No.645378

>>How is Kafka's Trial a comedy? It was pretty fucking depressing when I first read it.

Try reading Kafka this way. Imagine that life is so dull that the only thing that could hold your interest is your own worst nightmare. Kafka is funny in the way that Beckett or Nathanael West are funny. For that matter, Chekhov called his plays "comedies" and you really have to twist your mind how anybody could view "The Seagull" as a comedy....unless you realize that all human suffering is, in some sense, gratuitous...and to create a story which reveals that fact is even more gratuitous...and you start to get into the state of mind in which Kafka is like a comic nightmare, basically. If I were ever going to teach (which I don't think I'd enjoy) and I had to teach Kafka (which would be difficult) I think I'd tell people to read THE TRIAL alongside a graphic novel such as "Like a Velvet Glove Cast In Iron" by Dan Clowes. It would make you think of Kafka in a different way, as a sort of nightmare comedy.

>>humility.
>>multiple posts explaining how smart he is.
>>Cool story, bro.

I'm hardly explaining how smart I am. If you find me smart, I'm flattered. I can think of plenty of people smarter than me, and I'm not pretending to be smarter than them, or any smarter than I am. If you think I'm an asshole because I'm smarter than you, that's another matter. But I'm not posting here to prove I'm smarter than you. I'd rather hear about something that you love, and offer my own considered thoughts and opinions, that way you can understand the way you and I are differently smart. But if you're the sort of person whose favorite book is The Fountainhead we'd have nothing to say to each other.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:20:14 2010 No.645383 >>645313 "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:22:14 2010 No.645389 >>645378 >I thought you might want to see what a real intellectual might say. >I am definitely smarter than your high school English teacher. >I'm hardly explaining how smart I am. Sounds good to me.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:23:14 2010 No.645390

>>Unfortunately, he doesn't really get into that sort of thing, as the title might suggest. I wish he had, because those ideas really have a lot of potential.

Tell me about it. When I heard Ian McEwan had published a novel called "Solar" about global warming, I assumed it was going to discuss the Maunder Minimum. Unfortunately McEwan doesn't really get into that....but that's because I kind of think that writers of that generation are becoming a little out-of-touch, largely because bitches don't know bout my 4chan.

Which is why I'm here, btw. I thought I'd share what I think about books etc, because, well, Sir William Empson once said the only value literature has is to teach you what other people think. (Or perhaps to teach you THAT other people think.) So I come onto this site to find out what y'all are thinking, not to hold forth about my own thoughts. Don't know why I decided to do this. I think because popularity contests about great books always get under my skin a bit. I can think of a lot of wonderful books that have moved or influenced me, which practically nobody has ever heard of. But if someone took the time to write it, I sometimes find it agony that nobody ever takes the time to read it, and so I read it. WHich leads me down a lot of blind alleys, to be sure, but at least I can claim to be open-minded and always following my curiosity.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:23:14 2010 No.645392 >>645372 that makes quite a lot more sense.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:26:14 2010 No.645400

>>Sounds good to me.

Well, okay, then let me hedge the claim. I'm smarter than any high school English teacher I've met. If you're a high school English teacher, the burden of proof is on you, prove how you're smarter than me. Otherwise, give me a way to prove that I'm smarter than your own, or a hypothetical average, high school English teacher and I'll do it.

But the simple fact is that you're not going to take my opinions seriously unless you're inclined to take them seriously. Persuasion is no longer an art. People believe what they believe and seldom change their minds. In ancient Greece Persuasion was viewed as a goddess---PEITHO--who was able to possess people and sway them, when voting in juries or such. I'm inclined to agree that, at this point, only supernatural means can change the mind of somebody about whatever it is that they think. Haters gonna hate, and if you hate me for what I'm posting here, well, I can assure you that you are in good company with a number of prominent critics of my work.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:27:14 2010 No.645405 >>645390 There are always exceptions... I miss JG Ballard already.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:29:14 2010 No.645409 >>645371 This shit makes sense. Well done.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:29:14 2010 No.645413

>>645378

This reminds me of being at school doing a course on postwar british drama by an enthusiast teacher and former theatre director who'd somehow managed to wangle it. Very few people in the class found The Birthday Party or The Homecoming or Waiting for Godot in any way funny. It was just insane. I mean these plays are hilarious. Perhaps it works better on stage, where you get the physicality of the slapstick sequences (like Godot's hat-play), but it still staggered me.

ALSO what is your favourite book that counts as 'genre fiction!!!'

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:32:14 2010 No.645417

>>I miss JG Ballard already.

Any man who can write something entitled "Why I Want To Fuck Ronald Reagan" deserves to be remembered for a long time.

And then when you realize he could ALSO write "Empire of the Sun" you just think....wow, some people have so much talent, why aren't they household names? But they aren't because people care more about whether Justin Bieber knows where Germany is on a map than they do about people who work for years to distill their thoughts into a work of art.

Anyway, at least some of us still read books. And always will.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:32:14 2010 No.645418 >>645269 Columbia undergrad here. Wut?

>>	What !mQ6mClq8pY Sat May 8 16:35:14 2010 No.645426 >>645417 You quote with one > retard >retard.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:39:14 2010 No.645435 >>645417 Even if you aren't a published author, I likes you. If you are, I'd like to know what you've written so I can read it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:40:14 2010 No.645437 A published author whose works are studied in Colombia, Princeton and Yale, a college professor and finally a Colombia undergrad. Oh boy, this is the greatest sitcom ever.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:41:14 2010 No.645438

>>I mean these plays are hilarious

All those plays ARE hilarious, and if somebody can't understand that, it's a failure of their imagination. Maybe if you spell it out for them. "Okay, look at the plot of the Homecoming. Now imagine that your mom and dad go back to your dad's house for the first time in years, and somehow your grandfather and all your brothers steal your mom from your dad and make her their sex-slave. Isn't that funny?" IT IS. Especially when Pinter is a British Jew writing at a moment when Britain and the Jews were BOTH nearly wiped off the map by a homicidal madman. But does something like the Holocaust make laughter impossible? Of course not. The problem is that the vast majority of people think that it does, or that to address the insanity of the 20th century in a comic form must be impossible, or that "serious literature" has to be "serious" otherwise why are we reading it?

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:41:14 2010 No.645441

>>645413

>Waiting for Godot
>People not finding it funny.

It's hilarious even in print! People who can't appreciate Beckett make me furious. The man was a goddamn genius. He can take something as idiotic and cliche as a man slipping on a banana and turn it into comedic gold all over again. He mixes slapstick comedy with depressing, navel-contemplating dialogue and makes gold. Beckett shit dramatic gold. And he's accessible as fuck, too. If people can't get Beckett they can't get theatre.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:41:14 2010 No.645443
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>>ALSO what is your favourite book that counts as 'genre fiction!!!'

"Venus on the Half Shell" by "Kilgore Trout". Which is written by a genre fiction writer, Philip Jose Farmer, who just died recently. But who was a great genre fiction writer.

Incidentally I met Farmer once and he told me that he was at a sci-fi convention in LA with Philip K Dick, when their fellow sci-fi novelist Lafayette Ronald Hubbard announced to both of them that, if people went to Freudian psychiatrists and just talked, and people went to Catholic Confessionals and just talked, what if you started a religion where they hooked you up to a lie-detector and made you talk? A religion like that could be bigger than psychiatry AND Catholicism put together...

And that, dear friends, is why somebody like me ended up on 4chan in the first place. Because somebody is willing to call bullshit on the scientologists. But I wouldn't ever do it in print because, well, I don't make enough money to defend myself against one of their famous lawsuits. But if I post this on /b/, nobody even gives a shit. If I post this here, maybe somebody will notice, and care, and even say "Whoa, never occurred to me that both Tom Cruise and John Travolta started off as Catholics, that Catholics have to confess, that if you have half a brain you realize that (say) John Travolta never bothered to confess that he liked having sex with men, he realized that psychiatry didn't seem to be able to change people's sexuality, but he still felt guilty about his sexuality, so he found L.Ron's system of "auditing" which is basically a Freudian Catholic Confessional with a fake lie-detector attached.

So there. That's a way of talking about my favorite work of genre fiction. And also outing John Travolta, if anybody even gives a shit anymore.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:44:14 2010 No.645452 >>644532 >You had an arse full of farts that night, darling, and I fucked them out of you.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:45:14 2010 No.645455

>>Columbia undergrad here. Wut?

Take a course with Jenny Davidson. She's one of the most intelligent women I've ever met. And you can tell her an anonymous person online said so.

>>Even if you aren't a published author, I likes you. If you are, I'd like to know what you've written so I can read it.

Please, I'm here because I like the anonymity. And the last thing I want is for everybody in this thread who thinks I'm an asshole---and I respect them, because they're in perfect agreement with my sister and plenty of other people---to start googling me to find bad reviews (which are easy to find) or a picture of me (which is out there) or whatever.

How about this? Tell me three books you really like / love / care about....and I'll recommend something NOT by me that I think you probably haven't heard of but would really enjoy.

That way you'd get a sense of my own taste, when I'm trying to accomodate it to your own.

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:49:14 2010 No.645465

>>You had an arse full of farts that night, darling, and I fucked them out of you.

Clearly your knowledge of James Joyce comes largely from a sex-manual by Dr Irene Kassorla, or some similar work of quasi-pornographic self-help, rather than from reading Joyce's own work, or Ellmann's biography, or anything that you can't jerk off to.

amirite? If so, I am smarter than your high school English teacher.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 16:50:14 2010 No.645467 >>645455 Alright... Off the top of me head: Empire Of The Sun - JG Ballard Island - Aldous Huxley Puttering About In A Small Land - Philip K Dick

Anonymous Sat May 8 16:57:14 2010 No.645490

Current tally... though I think our guest here pretty much stole the show.

Ulysses: 21 votes
Mrs. Dalloway: 10 votes
Blood Meridian: 8 votes
1984: 7 votes
The Great Gatsby: 6 votes
Catch-22: 5 votes
The Trial: 4 votes
A Clockwork Orange: 4 votes
Lolita: 3 votes
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: 2 votes
Howl: 2 votes
Cat's Cradle: 2 votes

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:01:14 2010 No.645498

Alright... Off the top of me head: Empire Of The Sun - JG Ballard; Island - Aldous Huxley; Puttering About In A Small Land - Philip K Dick

Grrr. Okay, I'm racking my brains. Don't blame me if these suggestions are crap. But I'll recommend books that I liked which somehow match up to those.

Empire of the Sun....well, if you like the "life in prison" aspect I'd recommend "On the Yard" by Malcolm Braly, or else his memoir (cant remember the title). If you like the "absurdity of life" aspect, I would recommend "The Restraint of Beasts" by Magnus Mills.

Huxley's Island....I'd recommend "John Dollar" by Marianne Wiggins (the ex-Mrs-Rushdie) or a non-fiction book like "John Frum He Come". Those are just 2 books that spring to mind.

Philip K Dick...you pick the one Dick that isn't sci-fi? Bold choice. Uh, so I'm trying to think of books about the miseries of marriage in suburbia. "Birds of America" by Lorrie Moore. Or else, have you read any Rick Moody? "The Ice Storm" is great, but the short stories in Demonology and Ring of Brightest Angels are even better. The first story in Demonology makes me cry every time I read it. So does most of Lorrie Moore. But I'm the sort of person who cries easily at books. Which may make you question my judgment. Which you should, anyway, my judgment is no better than anybody else's.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:06:14 2010 No.645513 >>645330 Apologies, I had to go to the grocery store. Do you look anything like Sean Connery or Gerard Butler?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:06:14 2010 No.645514 Columbiafag (freshman) here. The only book published in the 20th century on our syllabus for Literature Humanities (a core class) was To the Lighthouse. Judge this fact for me. What does it indicate?

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:06:14 2010 No.645515

>>I think our guest here pretty much stole the show.

I apologize. But I only started to steal it to make sure James Augustine Aloyisius Joyce wins the popularity contest, because he should.

Virginia Woolf was a rich girl with an Oxford don for a dad, and yes, she got incested and all that, but did she know what it was like to be poor, in a country colonized by the Brutish Vempire? No, she was just angry that her own father would not take her seriously as an intellect because she was a woman. Woolf was not a nice person, if you read what John Carey says about her in "The Intellectuals and the Masses".

Whereas Joyce was just a lonely genius who would never make any money from his art. And Virginia Woolf owned a fucking printing press.

Sorry, 3 cheers for Joyce, but you don't need me to tell you that. I just wish more people would READ Ulysses.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:06:14 2010 No.645517 >>645490 it's obvious what book wins.. now end the poll fgt.

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:08:14 2010 No.645521

>>645498

Thanks, there's a few things I haven't read (or even heard of) there. Adding to my list.

Also, there's a few books Dick wrote outside of Sci-Fi. Most either weren't published until recently by Tor books, or are very hard to find. I think they're much better than his space-heavy writing.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:13:14 2010 No.645539 >>Do you look anything like Sean Connery or Gerard Butler? Weirdly at the moment I have a beard not unlike Gerard Butler's in 300, but that's not what I normally look like. I certainly look nothing like Sean Connery, who was a former Mr Universe.

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:15:14 2010 No.645544

>>Columbiafag ...To the Lighthouse. Judge this fact for me. What does it indicate?

Columbia sticks to that core curriculum because (largely due to the lingering moldy influence of Lionel Twilling) they want to assert the importance of the Great Tradition and all that. Fair enough.

But then when you REQUIRE the Great Tradition, you realize that---despite the existence of Barnard---half your frosh at Columbia are female, and they might be wondering who are all these dead white guys. Woolf's best novel is "To the Lighthouse"--and I admit it's a good novel--and I believe it should be read. I read it in high school, and thought it was a good novel. I even cried at the "Time Passes" chapter but like I said, I cry at books the way 12yo girls cry when a Jonas Brother gets married.

But Woolf makes it onto that syllabus because the integrity of her quarrel with ingrained sexism does require an answer. Go to Britain. THey have sexism there which makes you realize that feminism has had an effect in America.

But TBH, people think girls aren't good at math and science. The asshole ex-President of Harvard actually says this out loud, and gets fired from Harvard. (Now the President of Harvard is a woman named Dr Faust---go figure.) But my own solution would be to say: Why not make the students learn about the life of Ada Lovelace Byron? She didn't write long poetic overrated novels like Virginia Woolf, but she did write the first fucking computer program. AND SHE'S A WOMAN. And I doubt most Columbia frosh have much use for a lighthouse these days, or even a painting, but every single one of them depends on a computer. If you want to make claims for the importance of women to culture, start with Ada Lovelace Byron. She also happened to be Lord Byron's daughter, which would gratify me if people remembered him too. He doesn't make it onto your syllabus. But then again, he was mad, bad, and dangerous to know.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:17:14 2010 No.645550 >>645539 As long as you claim to be similar to Gerard Butler in the slightest way, I'm happy. So, when do we being this liaison of sorts?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:19:14 2010 No.645554 This thread shows how little /lit/ knows about visual art. Or actually, the art world has destroyed what was good and replaced it with hipster modern art.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:19:14 2010 No.645555 Ada Lovelace Byron? Check this out: http://sydneypadua.com/2dgoggles/lovelace-the-origin-2/

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:20:14 2010 No.645559 >>645554 What would you recommend then?

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:21:14 2010 No.645562
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>>As long as you claim to be similar to Gerard Butler in the slightest way, I'm happy. So, when do we being this liaison of sorts?

Do you want my e-mail address? I have a separate e-mail address that I use for random stuff, which I would probably even be willing to post on 4chan, because whatever, it's the e-mail I use for random stuff.

If you want to start up a correspondence, I'd be tickled.

But seriously, if you knew me, I doubt you'd want any more of a liaison than trading bookchat or whatnot via e-mail. I'm mad bad and dangerous to know, or at least I try to be.

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:27:14 2010 No.645596

>>Ada Lovelace Byron?
>>Check this out:
>>http://sydneypadua.com/2dgoggles/lovelace-the-origin-2/

Well, hackers celebrate Ada Lovelace Byron Day nonetheless. And isn't what she did worth considering?

I was just trying to come up with some replacement for V Woolf in the Columbia Core Curriculum. Because honestly, they would make the frosh read "A Room of One's Own" until it occurs to them that most Columbia women probably DID have a room of their own, weren't made to do domestic chores like women in Woolf's day, and so Woolf's feminism now looks a little outmoded.

Weirdly, I did not know Ada died at the same age as her dad. 36. I did know she insisted on being buried beside him, despite the fact that they never met.

Thanks, I just learned something. :D

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:27:14 2010 No.645600 >>645562 I'd love to email you.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:32:14 2010 No.645614 I think this thread just turned into a pseudo-intellectual faggot hook-up thread. Also, Ulysses.

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:32:14 2010 No.645616

>>This thread shows how little /lit/ knows about visual art.

Since I'm flooding this thread with my own opinions....uh, what do you want /lit/ to know about visual art? The invention of photography changed the nature of the game. Then we got another great wave of great painters who were responding to the fact that a painting didn't need to do what photography could now do.

And currently most visual artists are just stuck with the fact that visual art is a prestige symbol for the wealthy overclass, like Charles and Maurice Saatchi, and so as a result, visual art seems to be turning into a minor subset of the History of Self-Generated Publicity, like Damien Hirst.

But there are still painters out there whom I think are amazing. John Currin. Elizabeth Peyton. They're a generation older than myself, but I respond to their work. But I would have no idea how to convince people---in an age when there's no consensus as to what visual art is supposed to do---that they're great. I just know that John Currin paints like Parmagianino would, if Parmagianino did a topless portrait of Bea Arthur. And Elizabeth Peyton paints like Cezanne would, if Cezanne wanted to do portraits of Leonardo di Caprio and Jarvis Cocker which make them look like beautiful femmy gay boys.

But my opinions on visual art can't get you to CARE. They might get you to google John Currin's topless portrait of Bea Arthur and ask: is this art? I happen to think it is. I wish I owned it. But I don't make enough from writing to pay New York Art World prices.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:32:14 2010 No.645618 >>645554 I worked at the Walker Art Center. Wanna fight?

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:33:14 2010 No.645620
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END! James Joyce's Ulysses wins the title of the greatest literary work of the 20th century! In a day or two, I'll visit /tv/ to get their feedback on the greatest film.

Thank you for your cooperation. You may now rage over the loss of your favourite book.

BTW, mister writer, how would you fill in this template? What do you consider the finest works of literature, music, cinematography, video games and visual art of the 20th century?

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:37:14 2010 No.645631
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>>I'd love to email you.

princeluciorimanez@gmail.com

And I'm not trying to hook up with anybody. I will just give people advice on what they should read, or how to pursue their own interests, from the standpoint of someone who has read way too much and published much too little and has basically gone broke pursuing my own interests, but if my knowledge can be more useful to somebody else in trying to discover himself or herself than it has been to me in trying to make a living, then fine. Email me. My name is Prince Lucio Rimânez, and I am descended from the noblest families of ancient Chaldea, who then emigrated to Tyre and Etruria. And I am much inclined to accept the transmigration of souls.

But no-one will ever believe me, although that is my real e-mail address, or rather it is one real e-mail address that I happen to use and nobody else does.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:38:14 2010 No.645637 >>645631 And you have time to watch Death Note?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:39:14 2010 No.645643 >>645631 Marie Corelli? On my /lit/?

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:43:14 2010 No.645656

>>BTW, mister writer, how would you fill in this template? What do you consider the finest works of literature, music, cinematography, video games and visual art of the 20th century?

Lit....Ulysses, Our Town, poems by Eliot, Ashbery, Elizabeth Bishop, Marianne Moore, Auden

Music...the adagietto from Mahler's 5th, Weill's Dreigroschenoper, Jazz Waltz by Shostakovich, Nirvana's Nevermind, REM Life's Rich Pageant and Eponymous, first several albums by Belle & Sebastian, first 2 albums by The Secret History

Cinema: Altman's Nashville & Short Cuts, Fellini's La Dolce Vita & Satyricon, Bunuel's El Angel Exterminador, Viridiana, Discreet Charm of the Bourgeouisie, and "Valley of the Dolls" for camp value.

Video games: I'm old school, friend. It begins and ends with Infocom. I think their best was probably Wishbringer, Trinity, or Beyond Zork. But I owned and played every single one obsessively. Which is why I am a writer and not a visual artist, I guess.

Visual art: James Ensor's Intrigue and Christ's Entry into Brussells, lots of Picasso, lots of Francis Bacon, John Currin and Elizabeth Peyton.

inb4 yes i am a huge faggot. so what.

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:48:14 2010 No.645679

>>645438
>>645441

Right, utterly agreed here. I went to a protest in London and afterwards inadvisedly to the pub. And there were spoken word poets. They were terrible for all sorts of reasons, not least that for all the time they spent talking about how the man keeps them from expressing themself and how we have to throw off the shackles, they still seemed unwilling to divest themselves of the obligation to rhyme, which was a shame, because they were rubbish at it. But the worst thing was simply that they didn't have a sense of humour. And the acts that were alright distinguished themselves by being able to take the piss. It's very strange, this notion that seriousness precludes humour. Nobody should ever be trusted who cannot take the piss out of themselves, and (I think) it's difficult to be entirely serious about something if you don't at least recognise the potential for humour in it. After all, I can't help thinking there's something fundamentally serious about, say, Hitler. Or suicide bombers.

(although
>make her their sex-slave
Seems like the other way round to me)

I'm surprised you don't like Catch-22 (although nice bluff; it's true that I haven't read it in years). It's a lovely novel, simultaneously funny and horrific the whole way through.

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:48:14 2010 No.645680

>>And you have time to watch Death Note?

Never watched it. I have time to READ Death Note. If this is the culture I'm living in, I'd be a fool not to read it. Plus I have several half-siblings who are way younger than me (8, 12, and 15). So if I want to speak their language I have to know who Light Yagami and Samus Aran are.

>>Marie Corelli? On my /lit/?

Oh, spare a thought for poor Marie. I'm fascinated always by writers who were insanely popular at one time, and now utterly forgotten....or writers who nobody ever heard of, and who only seem to be discovered by people who really care (like Thomas Lovell Beddoes, or Raymond Roussel, or Willem Ellschot)

Plus Joe Orton once said that Marie Corelli was the greatest example of unintentionally hilarious writing he'd ever encountered. He hadn't read Jacqueline Susann, or "Chippendales: The Naked Truth" by Troy Kline and Joe Bice, but I am totally fascinated by books that are supposed to be DEEPLY SERIOUS but you really need a heart of stone to read them without laughing. That autobiography of a former male stripper I just mentioned is seriously one of the funniest books ever written, but it's not supposed to be, and nobody has ever heard of it.

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:50:14 2010 No.645688

Also I went to a scilon protest without a mask. A man came out of the Church and bumped past me, apparently trying to get a rise out of me so he could bring a battery case. Others wielded over-obvious telephoto lenses from inside windows across the street. When I left I got followed by a guy in a dark coat and lost him through the back door of a second hand bookshop.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 17:52:14 2010 No.645702 >>645631 Sent, sir.

Anonymous Sat May 8 17:56:14 2010 No.645715

>>I'm surprised you don't like Catch-22

I don't *dislike* it. I just am bewildered when people claim it as their favorite book. I feel like, okay, this can be your favorite book if you have experienced firsthand the insanity of war. Same reason why I admire Slaughterhouse-5 but I think Galapagos or Cat's Cradle are the better books.

>>It's very strange, this notion that seriousness precludes humour.

A wise poet and scholar (who shall remain nameless or otherwise you'd know where I went to school) once said to me "People need to understand there is a difference between SERIOUSNESS and SOLEMNITY."

Seriousness can definitely include laughter, all kinds of laughter, even mad desperate laughter at how insane this supposedly sane world is.

Whereas Solemnity is what you use when you want to make children watch Schindler's List so they can realize that the little girl in the red coat might be you, or your sister.

Whereas Seriousness looks at Schindler's List and says what Stanley Kubrick said about it: "The Holocaust is about 6 million people who died, and Spielberg makes a movie about 600 who live?"

That's my take on the subject, anyway. But I'm assuming you're British, and the most I'll say about my own career as a writer is that I was pretty infamous in the UK once for writing something that was serious but not solemn about a topic that a lot of people in the UK had unwarrantedly passionate emotions about (from the POV of an outsider like myself). So you should see the hate mail I got from bluehaired pensioners in Swindon who would never have heard of my existence if the tabloids hadn't decided to make some American nobody writer into the villain-of-the-week.

Anonymous Sat May 8 18:15:14 2010 No.645781
File: 106 KB, 1048x735, Lord_Byron_on_his_Death-bed_c._1826.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Okay, /lit/, I'm supposed to meet people for dinner. But thanks for this. You restored my faith that there are intelligent people left in the universe.

I'll drop by again soon, if you want some more bookchat.

Till then, be well. :D

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 18:17:14 2010 No.645788 >>645781 How will we know it's you?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 18:25:14 2010 No.645815 >>645715 Aha! But the nature of our tabloid press means that this doesn't narrow down your identity at all.

Anonymous Sat May 8 18:26:14 2010 No.645819
File: 114 KB, 500x848, lovelacecomicpg1new.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>How will we know it's you?

Ummm...good question. Otherwise it's just a Turing Test for some poseur pretending to be me, although plenty of people think that I am nothing more than a poseur pretending to be myself.

How about a secret password?

Ask me to quote my four favorite lines by Lord Byron. They are Byron's epitaph for a man whom Shelley once described as looking like Murder personified.

That should give you enough to figure out what those four lines are, if you can use google and actually give a shit.

But the fact that I can quote them instantly because I think they're great should be proof enough.

Would that work?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 18:28:14 2010 No.645822 >>645819 That's some complicated bat-signal you got there, but it might work...

Anonymous Sat May 8 18:30:14 2010 No.645834
File: 14 KB, 260x200, Manuel Antonio Sloth.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>Aha! But the nature of our tabloid press means that this doesn't narrow down your identity at all.

I know. That's what I love about Britain. It would narrow down my identity to say that I once had my name in a headline on the front page of the Guardian too, because I was thought to be that "shocking" in Britain. But it was a slow news week, and if you actually feel like sludging through back issues of the Guardian to try to figure out who somebody as insignificant as myself might be, then you really need to take up a hobby like philately or masturbation.

Whatev. I gave y'all my e-mail address. princeluciorimanez@gmail.com

If you doubt it's me, just e-mail and I'll confirm or deny. And I may be slightly insane as many people suggest, but I wouldn't reverse-troll people younger than myself who actually read books. Because if you didn't get some kind of encouragement, I'd make even less money than I currently do.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 18:34:14 2010 No.645849 >>645834 I combine those hobbies to save time.

Anonymous Sat May 8 18:37:14 2010 No.645859
File: 13 KB, 376x300, main_joyce3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>I combine those hobbies to save time.

Presumably also saves the trouble of licking the stamps, when you can use your own personal stickiness for that purpose.

Okay, dinnertime for me. E-mail me, or else look for me on /lit/. I'll start my own thread next time.

Apologies for hijacking this one, but what can I say? I have a big boy crush on a guy who once published a book in 1922.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 18:54:14 2010 No.645936 >>644322 A-FUCKING-MEN

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 18:55:14 2010 No.645939 Either "The Brothers Karamazov" or "Ulysses"

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 18:58:14 2010 No.645956 >>645656 If there are no votes for "Starry Night" by Van Gogh for best art piece, we should all kill ourselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:08:14 2010 No.645982 >>645859 Response email. Sorry for the delay.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:14:14 2010 No.646001 >>645956 If it can be recreated perfectly, it doesn't deserve to be the greatest piece of art.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:17:14 2010 No.646012 >>646001 Bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:18:14 2010 No.646016 >>646012 That's the point of it having any worth of someone else can do it? I think you should expand your knowledge or art to the lesser known, find real talent.

Anonymous Sat May 8 19:22:14 2010 No.646023

>>646012

I mean, think about it. The soul reason it has any fame is because it was the first of it's kind. It was much easier to come up with concentration during that time. Think about how hard it is for Artists these days to come up with original content, and have it be on-par with Starry Night? In my opinion, that deserves more credit than Starry Night.

Anonymous Sat May 8 19:24:14 2010 No.646028

>>646016
The point is that it's that the ease with which a piece of art can be copied has nothing to do with the artist's talent. I could re-write a book that's already written, for that matter. It's about distilling an idea for the first time. The challenge is in making something out of nothing. You're a prick if you base talent off of technical quality.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:25:14 2010 No.646030 >>646028 Correction: -technical quality alone.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:27:14 2010 No.646034 >>646028 See >>646023

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:27:14 2010 No.646036 >>646023 New ideas are infinite. But yes, the novel ones are all taken by dead guys. What to do?

Anonymous Sat May 8 19:30:14 2010 No.646046

>>646028
Maybe I'm just being extremely cynical.
I'm an artist, myself. I understand that the idea and feeling captured for the first time is irreplaceable, but as I said, the challenge for a current New Age artist to create something comparable is so much greater and admirable considering it's harder to display original content.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:31:14 2010 No.646053 >>646036 It's the novel ideas that please the mass of people. People like being able to relate to simplicity. When you get more detailed with ideas, because you have to, people get less interested.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:35:14 2010 No.646070 >>646053 But were you the one who was dogging on contemporary/modern art?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:37:14 2010 No.646072 >>646070 No?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 19:47:14 2010 No.646101 >>646072 Oh. Alright. We're cool then. I wanted to be an professional artist. Mom wouldn't let me go to RISD after I got accepted. Is it necessary to be original all the time in this profession, or just good at what you do?

Anonymous Sat May 8 19:51:14 2010 No.646111

>>646101
Art was never good.
People only care about what's different these days.
I recently entered a piece of work into a showing. My piece was basically the only work that wasn't just a single colored, single shape on a canvas.

It disgusted me. I'm about to give up.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 8 23:45:14 2010 No.646798 Ulysses.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 13 07:31:22 2015 No.646798,1 Well, that was certainly Pynchon. This is un-fucking-believable

Anonymous Fri Sep 25 14:55:43 2015 No.646798,2 [INTERNAL]

Hahaha, I can't believe someone else came to this thread not too long ago. I'm not so convinced it's Pynchon, but I do think whoever this person was rather interesting. I think it's unfortunate they didn't post any of their works. However, they seemed to suggest that their own stuff isn't even that good and that our time would be better spent actually reading the great authors they mentioned.

Anyway if anything interesting ever happens in regards to Pinecone or this guy, a headsup would be appreciated

zroverz@gmail.com

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 13 22:02:07 2021 No.646798,3 Evan Dara

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