/epicpoetry/ General

[Anonymous No.6430399]

Where were you when you realized that Satan was the best character in all of literature?

[Anonymous No.6430408]

I was over there by the wainscotting but it was merely a chance remark with very little substance behind it so I dismissed it as not worth my consideration.

[Anonymous No.6430414]

apology for poor english

Where were you when you realized that Satan was the best character in all of literature?

I was sat at library discerning talents when David came in

'And but so Satan was the best character in all of literature'

'God is dead'

And you????

[Anonymous No.6430448]

>>6430414

>'god is kill'
>'no'

[Anonymous No.6430452]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rry4Pqpo3Og

[Anonymous No.6430467]

>>6430399
Satan contradicts himself as well. he's an outdated and underdeveloped character in my opinion tbh

[Anonymous No.6430475]

m8 I just thought of God dying and it's fucking impressive m8

imagine it, wooaah i'm without words

[Anonymous No.6430561]

>>6430399
Go to bed, you flustered romantic you.

[Anonymous No.6430577]

>>6430467
The masses would turn to the dark side if he wsn't written to be pure evil and not just human and at the same time symbolically "on the bad side".
Extremes is what religion is.

[Anonymous No.6430601]

>>6430399
who is this semen demon?

[Anonymous No.6430623]

Why do writers limit themselves to the convention of poetic meter? Why not restrict themselves to this arbitrary rule and be able to write without discrimination and produce just as good if not better literature?

[Anonymous No.6430655]

>>6430623
Because the ancient figures of classical antiquity were utterly obsessed with form. Plato is one of the greatest misinformants of western thought, insofar as he established the basic tenets of traditional discursive practises which has maintained the misapprehension that poetry has to be a particular way

[Anonymous No.6430697]

>>6430623
Poetic meter gives writing a certain rhythm and symmetry that makes it, when done well, more satisfying to read.

[Anonymous No.6430717]

>>6430697
But is this not only relevant when reading in the native language? Looking at translated texts the rhythm is completely destroyed and metrical foot disregarded, yet works such as the Iliad and Odyssey are considered godlike without these poetic conventions.

[H.Q.S.S.G No.6430756]

>>6430623
Form and structure aren't limitations.

[Anonymous No.6430813]

>>6430414

apology for poor english

Where were you when you realized Milton is kill?

I was sit on Wallace's lap when Marlowe come in

'Banal platitudinous fishbowls w/r/t post-Christ relations happen upon the maxims of logos-supposed husbandries'

'eh i disagree'

and you????????

[Anonymous No.6430935]

>>6430717
most translations of those two works that I know of follow some kind of meter or rhythm

[Anonymous No.6431065]

>>6430399
>Not adam

[Anonymous No.6431118]

Lucifer is the most interesting character. He represents the melancholy genius; in female form, its the femme fatale, the mysterious seductress.
Like Hamlet, the melancholy genius, he thinks that he is born to "set the world right" - he believes God made it wrong.
He is also in characters like Sardanapalus, Cleopatra, Nero, viz. the cruel and indifferent monarch who indulges in all the world's vanity while knowing that it's vanity, and despising himself but having complete contempt for those that succumb to the world's vanity without keeping the distance of knowledge of its vanity that he keeps. He does evil not out of stupidity, but purely out of spite - the reason he does evil is to spite the God who made Him, to show him the error in his creation. The vanity of a world where the cruel and indifferent rule over others.

Evil is interesting, it's curious, it's enticing. Think of the difference between a femme fatale, and a simple housewife. Goodness is "boring". This fascination we have with evil may be called a morbid curiosity, being attracted to that which destroys us.
Compare the music of Palestrina (Good but boring) and Beethoven (Evil but interesting), both geniuses.

Lucifer isn't just the most interesting character, he's the character of characters, the essential character. Why? Because he represents the character who asserts himself, who claims complete sovereignty over himself and his identity, denying God and refusing to be part of God's plan. No saint is a character sufficient unto himself; the only reason saints exist is because God exists, and the entire point of a saint is that he gives his will to God. Lucifer has a will of his own. Shakespeare is perhaps the greatest Luciferian poet, even greater than Milton. Before Shakespeare "characters" did not exist. Characters in literature were archetypes that belonged to a cosmos ruled by divine order. Shakespeare put this new notion of an INDIVIDUAL consciousness entirely liberated from the cosmos into literature. This is why Harold Bloom says that Shakespeare "invented the human" - he didn't invent the human, he only invented, or more rightly prophesied or presaged, the modern human who is an individualist, a Cartesian ego, without God. The peak of consciousness in a Shakespeare play is often when the character realizes that he is in a play. This is the moment of self-determination, often of Luciferian rebellion. "The world's a stage, and I spit at it, and have contempt for everyone playing their part in this meaningless game".

[Anonymous No.6431124]

>>6431118
>No saint is a character sufficient unto himself; the only reason saints exist is because God exists, and the entire point of a saint is that he gives his will to God.

This is what God is said to have said to St. Catherine of Siena:

>You are she who is not, and I AM HE WHO IS.

Contrary to this, Lucifer says that he is, that he is independent of God.

>How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations? And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High.

[Anonymous No.6431136]

>>6430756
>>6430623
They are limitations, it's just that limits are essential to art.

[Anonymous No.6431142]

I can't believe nobody got mad at Milton for that shit. He clearly likes Satan a lot. I mean, of course JC rolls through at one point and just lightnings the shit out of Satan's forces easily. But whenever he talks about Satan he gets oddly sentimental and there's all this shit about Satan's proud visage or whatever. I really didn't think that was even allowed in the 17th century.

[Anonymous No.6431206]

>>6431118
Good post

[Anonymous No.6431217]

>>6431142
Because I think even back then, Satan's depiction was seen as almost relate-able.

He didn't write "And Satan is, like, super cool! Better than God!". It was a more subtle and human approach.

[Anonymous No.6431500]

>>6431142
Satan is a performer, a shape-shifter.
He pretends to be a tragic hero, and (while I can't specify off the top of my head) I imagine there's some early variant of free indirect speech going on which makes Satan appear temptingly human.

Although, ironically enough, I suppose the notion of performing for the 'big other' is about as human as it gets :^)

[H.Q.S.S.G No.6431546]

>>6431136
No, they're really not limitations. Are you a poet, by chance?