Interactive Art

[Anonymous No.6420006]

I asked one of my friends that plays and collects video games to recommend some with good narrative and interesting ideas. God was it depressing. Video games may have the potential to be art eventually but these are shit. I wish there was even one that could get a decent writer.

I played:
>Final Fantasy VI
>Final Fantasy VII
>Chronotrigger
>Xenoblade Chronicles

Every one of them was 40+ hours of an overly sentimental hero's journey, blatant power fantasy self insertion characters, and mustache twirling cartoon villains. The humor is awful, everyone speaks in identical voice.

The only thing appealing about the majority were some of the world building aspects.

[Anonymous No.6420023]

>>6420006
>Video games may have the potential to be art
art is subjective mate

[Anonymous No.6420031]

>>6420023
You're a meming memer.

[Anonymous No.6420043]

>>6420006
I don't think the problem of videogames is writing. If they really have the potential to be art, which is debatable, they should focus on their interactivity, which is what differentiates them from movies.

[Anonymous No.6420052]

>>6420006
I disagree with both of them being shit. FF IV and Chrono Trigger are very good games.

Old games I'd add:
>Golden Sun
>Tales of Phantasia

And more recent
>Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors
>The Last of Us

[Anonymous No.6420053]

>>6420043
Interactive storytelling can be good though. Expressing consequences through choice can make a point effectively. It would just be nice if they didn't all read like LoTR fan fiction.

[Anonymous No.6420062]

>>6420053
Interactive storytelling could be interesting yes, but none of the games OP listed have a story that can be influenced by your actions.

[Anonymous No.6420066]

>>6420052
They may be fun but the writing is not good in either. You have to see that.

[Anonymous No.6420070]

>>6420062
Oh, I know. I'm just saying that if the games are essentially going to be novels, they could at least get the basics down.

[Anonymous No.6420071]

>>6420031
it's entirely true. you may discredit something, but any definition of art is as valid as any other

[Anonymous No.6420077]

>>6420006
>Video games
>Art
You's a stupid hoe, aren't you ?

[Anonymous No.6420080]

>>6420070
Right, but I think that games should not try to be novels, you can already read novels.

[Anonymous No.6420085]

>>6420080
I agree. But seeing as these RPGs are lauded for their stories, I expect to be able to judge those stories in a similar way as I would a book.

[Anonymous No.6420100]

>>6420085
They have good stories when compared to the average videogame, but probably they have other qualities that set them apart.

[Anonymous No.6420121]

>>6420100
Well Chonotrigger has a time travel mechanic and FFVI is like a steam punk world so I guess that's something. They streamlined some of the more annoying elements of earlier RPGs so that's probably why they're respected.

[Anonymous No.6420136]

>>6420006
Play Mother 3, some Paper Mario Game, Cave story... I don't know. There are good and bad videogames as well as there are good and bad books and books you like and books you don't. Vvideogames are pretty cool, really. You just are very pretentious.

[Anonymous No.6420138]

>>6420006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathologic
if kafka made a game...

(only the original, I know nothing about the remake)

[Anonymous No.6420142]

Indigo Prophecy / Farenheit has one of the best endings of any game I've played. The story is so rich.

[Anonymous No.6420280]

>>6420006
Please go away /v/ no one cares about your shitty opinions.

[Anonymous No.6420288]

>>6420052
The last of us is objectively shit.

[Anonymous No.6420297]

>>6420006
>He plays video games for the writing

>>>/reddit/

[Anonymous No.6420311]

I've played every game listed in this topic so far, as well as other commonly listed "art" games (Shadow of the Colossus, Journey, Portal).

Every game which has been brought up so far is total garbage. I pretty much refuse to play any single-player, story-driven game or any kind of "art" game AKA walking simulator.

If I want to experience a good story or appreciate art, I don't go and play some fucking video games. Anyone who want to vidya to be viewed as art are just trying to find a justification for their hobby. Uh, the justification is that its FUN. Stop acting like such a baby and realize that HAVING FUN ISN'T A BAD THING.

You know whats a fun game? Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. I've been dying to play some of its multiplayer again. That shit is hilarious.

Anyway, fuck off back to /v/.

[I KNOW THIS ARE PLEB RECS No.6420317]

Maybe Mist is your kind of thing, OP. Very little fighting and good vs evil, more about unlocking a narrative and finding out how things work.

You could also like something in the vein of Papers. Please. It has a very limited gameplay aspect but it uses that to build a good narration. More games could be like it.

[Anonymous No.6420388]

>>6420006
What the hell is wrong with this thread. You people are insane. Why recommend jap teen games? Why judge all video games and the potential of the medium itself from a scattering of inane titles? Why not play Planescape: Torment?

Granted, there is mostly shit out there. Especially recently, say the last 10 years, they have been especially shit. But with games like Another World, Blade Runner, Space Quest 4, Psychonauts, Fallout 1, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Fahrenheit (although it is sadly not consistently good), Deus Ex, Grim Fandango, The Walking Dead.

[Anonymous No.6420426]

>>6420006
Hey fuckface: videogames are, unsuprisingly, about _game_play, not 'narrative'.

Go choke on a dick.

[Anonymous No.6420432]

>>6420388
>But with games like Another World, Blade Runner, Space Quest 4, Psychonauts, Fallout 1, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Fahrenheit (although it is sadly not consistently good), Deus Ex, Grim Fandango, The Walking Dead.
Sure feels underage in this thread!

Hey kid: ask your parents to buy you a real computer.

[Anonymous No.6420455]

>>6420388
I forgot Silent Hill 1 & 2 (possibly 3 too, although it is not as fun to play with those rubbery enemies and all) can't remember clearly the quality of the writing but as far as narrative, music and atmosphere goes they are top of the line, great games.

>>6420432
What are you implying there, buddy?

[Anonymous No.6420477]

>>6420006
>Video games may have the potential to be art eventually
Kill yourself idiot. They don't and they shoudn't have. Also any medium or genre achieves it's organic peak in it's early eras, where self-reflection is limited and not in the Hegemony of capitalism. Video Games are capitalist by nature and should not be even discussed as art. They have a different funtion called fun.

[Anonymous No.6420479]

>>6420388
>>6420455
>Blade Runner
>Silent Hill
Never played video games much, but these were amazing. Ever play Day of the Tentacle?

[Anonymous No.6420481]

I asked one of my friends who watches and collects movies to recommend some with good music. God was it depressing. Movies may have the potential to be art eventually but these were shit. I wish there was even one that could get a decent composer. Every one of them was 2+ hours of mediocre, simplistic music. Barely any use of counterpoint and there were even segments without any music at all. I can't believe people watch these things, what a bunch of plebs.

[Anonymous No.6420488]

>>6420006
Better suggestions : baldur's gate 2, planescape torment, the banner saga, wasteland 2

[Anonymous No.6420490]

Can the majority of video games even be called 'art' since they rely on creating a popular product solely so that people will buy it?

[Anonymous No.6420491]

>>6420479
Also what about the original Resident Evil? I played I think the next two after that, but I remember them not comparing to the first.

[Anonymous No.6420494]

>>6420491
The first was awful.

[Anonymous No.6420496]

>>6420479
Sure. It and Grim Fandango, Psychonauts and of course the singular Full Throttle are made by a lot of the same people, if you like Tentacle you might want to check them out. Full Throttle perhaps.

[Anonymous No.6420498]

>>6420455
>What are you implying there, buddy?
I'm implying that this is an 18+ board and you should fuck off to some place for the underaged and discuss your pokemon there.

[Anonymous No.6420502]

>>6420490
first you must define art

[Anonymous No.6420505]

>>6420490
>What is a film?

[Anonymous No.6420506]

>>6420498
You are embarrassing yourself. Why would you infer I'm underage when the majority of these games are like fifteen years old?

[Anonymous No.6420522]

>>6420506
>Why would you infer I'm underage when the majority of these games are like fifteen years old?
Because you're praising games that are shitty games and can only fascinate a person who never read a serious book for pleasure and never held down a job or a college education.

[Anonymous No.6420532]

Some games can be art, Stalker series for example. As long as playing the actual game does not make you happy or feel good but feel like shit, while having great, beautiful visuals and solid immersion. (making you feel like shit due to bugs and crashes is another story)

The writing is literally the last thing that matters.

[Anonymous No.6420538]

Does a game's player character have to be a blank slate to facilitate the player's immersion?

We can't have every game use amnesia as a plot device like Torment, or have you play an emotionless government agent like Deus Ex.

[Anonymous No.6420543]

>>6420077
oh come on, visual design, animation, sound effects, music. what the hell is art if none of those things comprise it?

[Anonymous No.6420550]

>>6420522
Wow. They are literally some of the best games around but whatever floats your fucking boat I guess. So give me your list then, what are some patrician games, obviously you play games so let's hear it.

[Anonymous No.6420595]

>>6420481
underrated kek

[Anonymous No.6420640]

>>6420481
Hey anon, in that case you might want to check out these games which all have very good music in my humble opinion:

Silent Hill 1, 2, 3
Icewind Dale
Diablo 1
Final Fantasy VII
Quake I
Fallout 1, 2
Cave Story
Otogi
Psychonauts

[Anonymous No.6420657]

>>6420494
I respectfully disagree.

>>6420496
Thanks for the suggestions, but I haven't had any kind of video game console or a computer for some time now.

[Anonymous No.6420663]

>>6420066
I agree with most of them, but a videogame is not a book. If writing were the only thing I care about I would read a book instead.
When I want to play a videogame I look for a bit more than that, the the experience involve a lot of things (e.g: gameplay, graphics, etc.)


What I do I disagree that 999 has bad writing.

[Anonymous No.6420670]

>>6420311
>You know whats a fun game? Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
pleb

[Anonymous No.6420677]

>>6420494
It was the better one so far as survival horror is concerned.
After the fourth game they are tps.

[Anonymous No.6420686]

>>6420006
try final fantasy x

[Anonymous No.6420692]

Drakengard
Nier

[Anonymous No.6420698]

[Anonymous No.6420719]

There was some older thread, from which I saved a half-finished pic related.

Maybe we could finish it(?)

[Anonymous No.6420725]

>>6420502
A creative expression performed for the sake of expression and/or creation.

[Anonymous No.6420726]

>>6420719
I made a few edits.

[Anonymous No.6420733]

Well anon let me explain.

First of all, Video Games are about Gameplay i.e. the way the game is played.
The mechanisms and how they are used to overcome obstacles, to continue the story, to fulfill challenges, to experience the game's world.

A video game's genre is classified based on their gameplay. Those games you mentioned are of a specific genre, Japanese Role Playing Game, hence why their gameplay has similar mechanics.
JRPGs find their roots in Western RPGs, with games like Wizardry.

Now, why am I mentioning this? well lets see what you are criticizing:
>I wish there was even one that could get a decent writer.
>Every one of them was 40+ hours of an overly sentimental hero's journey, blatant power fantasy self insertion characters, and mustache twirling cartoon villains. The humor is awful, everyone speaks in identical voice.
>The only thing appealing about the majority were some of the world building aspects.

All of your criticism revolves around Narrative aspects.

Of course, you asked your friend for "games with good narrative", so you expected such, but the thing here is that a game's quality is not built solely around that.
You can't judge an entire medium based on aspects that are basics in a different medium.

There are games that have "good narrative", but those you mentioned are not.

[Anonymous No.6420750]

>>6420733
I am wasting my life here.
I should have just written "You are a fag" and not waste an hour of my life writing garbage on some polynessian claymotion forum.

[Anonymous No.6420759]

>>6420719
>portal
>zelda
Just add persona 4 my fellow redditor.

[Anonymous No.6420773]

>>6420522
I didn't think so. You knew you were gonna get the horns yet you persisted and now here you are with a big ole horn up yer ass.

>>6420657
No problemo.

[Anonymous No.6420793]

>>6420726
This.

[Anonymous No.6420802]

>>6420725
that's wrong. art has only been used as creative expression for a couple hundred years. I don't think anybody would say that a Raphael painting isn't art, and yet it is not a vehicle for his creative expression. he is using the tools at his disposal to generate an image to convey religious and philosophical ideals and conceptions of his reality.

by defining art as nothing more than "creative expression" you not only discount millennia of human creations, but you also pigeonhole contemporary artists. a video game like shadow of the colossus is not entirely an expression of the way one person feels. it is an immersive, emotive experience that forces the player to contemplate their own actions, as well as exist in a beautiful landscape and marvel at the massive creatures that inhabit it

[Anonymous No.6420819]

San Andreas is pure art. I feel this to be indisputable.

[Anonymous No.6420821]

>>6420802
Entry pleb shit.

[Anonymous No.6420824]

>>6420006
Play the witcher series and hotline miami

[Anonymous No.6420829]

>>6420824
but not the second one.

[Anonymous No.6420845]

Braid's good

[Anonymous No.6420853]

>>6420824
Oh also play bioshock, and maybe system shock II if you like bioshock.
Also play the half-life games.

A lot of shooters have better stories than some rpgs, especially jrpgs, as jrpgs tend to have the same tropes over and over and you can pretty much play one and most of them are similar to it.

In addition, when playing a game dont just play through but look around at the scenery, at the details of the world. Often you'll notice things that will enrich your experience of the game.

[Anonymous No.6420867]

>>6420726
Yeah, just like reading fiction.

You guys should read real books instead of plain entertainment.

[Anonymous No.6420874]

>>6420845
I never played it but check out this shit my man, drawn by very same dude www.alessonislearned.com/

[Anonymous No.6420890]

>>6420874
A lesson is learned but the damage is irreversible is so awesome.
I wanted them to really come back, but they just hate working I guess.

[Anonymous No.6420985]

>>6420719
Eastern Mind is infinitely superior to LSD

[Anonymous No.6421040]

>>6420985
Well hello there weird CD-ROM game from 1995 I've never heard about, I'll be playing you presently.

Also I've forgotten too add the best, the most patrician most well written, most singular game I know of: King of Dragon Pass

[Anonymous No.6421046]

chrono trigger is super charming but obviously not a great story

great fucking game tho i love it

[Anonymous No.6421075]

There's a disgusting lack of mention of Echo Night Beyond in this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_bHAeZc_GE

[Anonymous No.6421167]

Videogames are inherently trash. If you're gonna waste your time with them, play something that embraces the medium like Postal 2. Looking for high art in a videogame is like going to McDonalds for a health food salads.

[Anonymous No.6421272]

>>6420657
>>6420773
>I respectfully disagree
>no problemo
Fuck, had to check the URL, make sure I was indeed on 4chan. Thanks, anon, for reminding me there is potential for civil discussion here.

[Anonymous No.6421278]

Not going to speak to OP's question, but vvvvvv anyone? Fucking great game.

[Anonymous No.6421293]

>>6421167
>inherently
look, i don't mean to be that guy, but can you outline the characteristic qualities of what makes vidya?

>>6420733's argument, for example, posits that "Gameplay" (whatever it may be) is the artistic core of a game, rather than the halfassed narratives that seem to populate this thread.

[Anonymous No.6421299]

>>6421167
good video games are better than bad movies

[Anonymous No.6421306]

It looks there are a lot of anons here that have a preconceived idea about video games and will not budge an inch on that opinion. Here's some help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV1u8FMsb5I

[Anonymous No.6421338]

>>6420006
I can relate, I play a lot of RPGs but I mostly only look for setting and characters. Try some Shin Megami Tensei stuff, they have a lot of interesting ideas and are constantly the freshest thing on the RPG market.

[Anonymous No.6421345]

>>6420488
This OP, stop playing generic weaboo trash and play generic western DnD fantasy trash instead.

[Anonymous No.6421389]

>>6421299
good video games are better than good movies

[Anonymous No.6421394]

>>6421389
Name a good game

[Anonymous No.6421400]

>>6421394
Cave Story

[Anonymous No.6421401]

>>6421394
Not him but Castlevania: Rondo of Blood is mankind's greatest work.

[Anonymous No.6421405]

>>6421400
This one too though good taste

[Anonymous No.6421412]

>>6421400
Raiders of the Lost Ark is better.

>>6421401
Nosferatu is better.

[Anonymous No.6421438]

>>6421412
Both of those have great gameplay.
Lost ark and Nosferatu dont have any gameplay at all.
Vidya 1
Other art forms 0

[Anonymous No.6421450]

>>6421394
Mario Galaxy 2

[Anonymous No.6421459]

>>6421450
Toy Story 3 was better.

[Anonymous No.6421461]

>>6421459
Finnegans Wake 4 was better.

[Anonymous No.6421467]

>>6421461
If only that existed.

[Anonymous No.6421497]

is checkers art

[Anonymous No.6421510]

>>6420725
second you must decide whether or not the majority of all video games are creative expressions

[Anonymous No.6421652]

>>6421394
Nier

[Anonymous No.6421746]

For good mindfucks:

>no mention of ever17
>no mention of Baten Kaitos
:-(

[Anonymous No.6421801]

they are art already

you just experienced a specific kind of it, i.e japanese role-playing games

anyway the trick is to not judge video games on their narrative because that's beside the point

[Anonymous No.6421810]

>>6420085
you judge them according to their contexts, not against some non-existent universal standard that happens to overlap almost completely with western standards as seen by a 20-something-year old male

[Anonymous No.6421824]

>>6420670
it is fun though and i'd say it's a game with near consistent presentation in every aspect. it's like sport-art

[赤水 !!1CQRiPLhBy8 No.6421846]

>>6421746
>no mention of ever17
Hardly a game or literature for what matters. A mindfuck indeed just like the ones that came before (never seven and remember eleven) but since there was no gameplay experience (click and choice doesn't count) can't be listed amond ff's and chrono trigger.

[Anonymous No.6421859]

>>6421824
It's a game for casual or for kids.

pic related: a real game

[Anonymous No.6421896]

>>6420802
Raphael also did it because he desired to create those ideals in the first place. They are very much so art because he wished to create a portrait of a sacred scene and so he did.

Here's how I view it:
>a creation, no matter what it is, that came about because of an artist's desire to create it, or his desire to express something.
Art

>something created that is requested by another person. Something that is created because it is part of one's occupation to do so.
Not art

If we start counting pieces created because of one taking requests as part of a job as art, then where do we draw the line in that regard?

[Anonymous No.6421905]

>>6421510
The whole of a medium doesn't have to be artistic for select pieces to be considered art.

I think it could be argued that a game like SotC is art, but I don't believe Battlefield 3 to be art.

[Anonymous No.6421913]

>>6421859
The only acceptable kind of games are the one where you compete another player.

[Anonymous No.6421917]

Videogames are art, but are trapped into mediocrity by their illiterate and infantile audiences.

The case is the same with movies, music and literature but luckily for us models of good movies, music and literature DO exists so there's little doubt as to their potency (Shakespeare, Bach, Kubrick, etc.) Videogames are severely lacking in those models, that's why the doubt exists.

[Anonymous No.6421925]

>>6421917
>Videogames are art

uh-uh

[Anonymous No.6421929]

>>6421925
Videogames are an art-form, if you prefer. :^)

[Anonymous No.6421934]

>>6421917
zoe stap

[Anonymous No.6421937]

>>6421859
that's ok it still has its place. after all it did break sales records and probably put an xbox in many people's homes

dark souls is good if you stop playing it before the final boss

[Anonymous No.6421939]

I'm sure it's been said in the thread already, but you can't compare a game's writing with a book's or a movie's writing. Not only are video games necessarily spacially focused, but they're also usually combat focused as well. They also have to account for the role the player takes in the world, while books assume the reader is more passive in the narrative experience. A lot of games that are considered "art" are judged not on their writing in a vacuum, but how well they tie the narrative and gameplay together, much like how films use cinematography to enhance their craft. This limits the medium, but the interactivity can (and has) let it do things that books or movies can't.

Even things that a book can do, like depict scenes that have no purpose but world and/or character-building, games have the benefit of making such things optional. If an author takes ten pages to describe a character's daily life, he's essentially halting the action for every reader until that information is out there. A game can make such a thing optional, meaning that only people that want to learn more about a character or the world need bother with it.

Right now, most games are roughly equivalent to genre novels in terms of themes and subject matter, which I think is fine. It's still a growing medium. I would personally label at least a few already existing games as having achieved that "art" status, but I tend to think "art" is a pretty meaningless term anyway. But there are definitely games that have provoked as much emotion and introspection as any book I've read has, and that's what I ultimately care about.

[Anonymous No.6421943]

>>6421929
I would concede "a form of creation"
The intent makes it entertainment and lowers it necessarily.

Just my opinion tho

[Anonymous No.6421954]

>>6421896
>something created that is requested by another person. Something that is created because it is part of one's occupation to do so.

lol so if art it commissioned at all, it's not art? say goodbye to nearly all art until the 1800s

[Anonymous No.6421959]

>>6421943
Wouldn't the intent be dependent on the creator?

Some movies are made to entertain, some to convey a message, etc. Can't the same be for interactive software?

[Anonymous No.6421989]

>>6421943
>>6421959
Does having "entertainment" as a secondary objective automatically lessen the message, if one's present? And can't entertainment be a worthwhile and artistic goal in itself? A lot of visual art (paintings, arthouse movies, etc.) are focused primarily on aesthetic engagement, and poems and novels can be labeled as art for having beautiful prose, so why can't a game be mechanically beautiful?

[Anonymous No.6422015]

>>6420522
>>6420498
>>6420432

[Anonymous No.6422023]

>>6421954
>nearly all

That's the key element. It wasn't all commissioned, and the commissioned pieces might have a better argument for them due to the nature of art at the time. But pieces that are created because of the artist's desire to create them are essentially more artistic than any commissioned piece.

[Anonymous No.6422047]

Ice pick lodge is the only studio I know of who has shown to be capable of creating actual art house games.

pic related is from the upcoming remake of their game pathologic, which outside of russia suffered from an incomprehensible translation as well as overall aging a bit poorly, but is really a one of a kind experience and I would highly recommend you check it out once the remake comes out.

http://www.pathologic-game.com

My favorite game of theirs, along with being one of my top 5 games of all time, is The Void, which is something that is better played than explained and is a must play if you're looking for a good art game.

[Anonymous No.6422056]

>>6421989
>Does having "entertainment" as a secondary objective automatically lessen the message, if one's present?

I don't think it does, it's perfectly possible to have spectacle AND substance, even more possible to have the spectacle compliment the substance. I guess more often than not it's just all spectacle and little substance, hence why people would think entertainment has no real artistic value.

[Anonymous No.6422058]

>>6420006
path of exile is objectively god tier
but it gets a bit boring after the first playthrough.

[Anonymous No.6422066]

Don't worry, I'm making the Finnegans Wake of video games, just wait a few years

[Anonymous No.6422115]

>>6422058
path of exile is a fucking diablo clone m8, and one which focuses on the minmaxing and skinner box grinding elements the most

[Anonymous No.6422118]

>>6422066
Already exists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol4OSIGGukA

[Anonymous No.6422122]

>>6420726
>waste of time
s to the p to the o-o kay SPOOK STREET NIGGAS WW@

[Anonymous No.6422139]

metal gear solid 2 contains the most interesting narrative in video games so far.

[Anonymous No.6422162]

>>6422139
Metal Gear itself I think represents the way that "video games as art with a message" should go in the future. It knows that the medium of video games is inextricably tied to really silly conventions and leaps of logic, and it runs with it. The contrast between the goofy gags, the bombastic action, and the genuinely heady messages is actually pretty unsettling, in my opinion. Games, even games that successfully convey any message they might have, don't have the luxury of being taken 100% seriously due to the bullshit that comes about from having a player directly interacting with them, so they should look for more ways to embrace this and use it to their benefit.

[Anonymous No.6422177]

>>6422023
what is "more artistic" and what does it have to do with independence?

[Anonymous No.6422208]

>>6422177
>more artistic
Being more capable of expression or creativity.

>independence
When was this brought up?

[Anonymous No.6422213]

>>6422208
Not that anon, but I don't think commissioned art and works of passion are in any way mutually exclusive. It's all about who's writing the checks and how much control they take over your work. But even then, sometimes a good editor is the best thing for a work.

[Anonymous No.6422236]

>>6422162
You are cute

[Anonymous No.6422242]

>>6422236
Gosh, thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.6422274]

>>6420052
The only thing The Last of Us has going for it is its story and yet it pales in comparison to other similar stories in other mediums.

Silent Hill 2 is probably the closest thing a video games has come to being art.

[Anonymous No.6422283]

>>6420543
So would you say advertisements are also art? They are products made to entertain, once in a while a video games does have artistic intent but it is rare.

[Anonymous No.6422290]

>>6422283
I think an advertisement has the potential to be art. I don't think It's been done, but I'm not discounting it as an impossibility. But that's a bad comparison, since commercials exist primarily to serve another product. Creatively, video games exist for their own ends (unless it's a movie tie-in or whatever).

[Anonymous No.6422338]

To anyone hoping to find some art in video games I highly recommend Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

It's quite a short game, you can finish it in one sitting, but it's pretty beautiful.

Basically, it's an interactive dark, nordic fairytale that takes you through some beautiful fairy tale environments.

Obviously it won't stand up to real high art, but as a videogame it's amazing.

The only problem is you kind of have to connect a controller to the pc to play it, it really wasn't designed for a mouse and keyboard.

But seriously, if you're looking for a beautiful, artful videogame, I can't recommend this enough.

[Anonymous No.6422350]

Everytime that someone mentions videogames on /lit/ is like watching old people triying to understand technology or lingo, they just seen it like something stoopid and diabolical.
I now understand the fear to ereaders too.

[Anonymous No.6422357]

>ctrl f
>no results for Vagrant Story
O-ok.

[Anonymous No.6422529]

>>6420388
Thank you
Planescape torment has some of the best writing i have ever seen in video games
Also the people who made it have recently made pillars of eternity whoch i was told also has fantastic writing (compared to most video games ofc)

[Anonymous No.6422546]

>I'm too autistic, my brain can't handle the concept of art without elitism

[Anonymous No.6422580]

These games are probably the best and most consistent example of how games can be 'art' if you're desperate to apply the term. Excellent, well balanced gameplay with a high degree of difficulty that elicits fear and other emotions not from 2spoop jump scares but from actual fear of your character dying. It's interesting and a method of interactive storytelling only possible in video games. The actual narrative is incredibly limited and can be completely ignored in favour of the gameplay. What narrative is there is not terribly complex but it is rich in symbolism, a refreshing change from political intrigue and all the other shit most fantasy seems to focus on lately. Also they have incredible world building and atmosphere.

Certainly they have their flaws but they stand out as exemplars of game design and actually using the medium's strengths rather than what most other games attempt to do.

[Anonymous No.6422602]

>>6422580

Demon's Souls >> Dark Souls >>>>>>> Dark Souls 2

Haven't played Bloodborne.

Demon's Souls had a perfect balance of atmosphere, writing, lore(both told and untold through various hints and occurrences in the game), gameplay level design and graphic design.

Never again will anything be as good as Demon's Souls.

[Anonymous No.6422622]

>>6420142
I don't know man, Beyond: Two Souls is superior in every single way. Like the Burroughs-esque scrambled narrative structure and the deep and involving storyline really makes for something that's COMPLETE AND UTTER FUCKING SHIT OH MY FUCKING GOD KILL YOURSELF YOU FAGGOT

[Anonymous No.6422632]

Fucking plebs

[Anonymous No.6422642]

>>6420388
Fahrenheit is the worst game i've ever had the displeasure to witness.

[Anonymous No.6422655]

>>6422338
>Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

It's shit. I bet Norwegian Wood is your favorite book. Fuck off with your shit you hipster faggot and play some real art house video games.

[Anonymous No.6422664]

>>6420006
i dont play video games that have stories, i play video games that are poems

[Anonymous No.6422680]

>>6422602
Bloodborne is pretty fucking good. I'd say it's about as good as Demon's Souls. Look forward to it. The narrative and lore are more obvious than in Demon's Souls but it makes it a lot more interesting, especially once the game shifts from Poe inspired in the first half to Lovecraftian in the second.

[Anonymous No.6422698]

>>6422655
Everything i've seen from The Void is super pretentious but really pretty visuals and people going "OMG THIS IS SO WEIRD LOOK AT THIS WEIRDNESS ISN'T IT WEIRD?".

[Anonymous No.6422739]

I want to make a 2d shmup. I want to learn how to program. I have plenty of time and patience. Where do i start?

[Anonymous No.6422740]

>>6421438
>>6420311
>>etc etc
>vidya

How to delete this word from the world it is so incredibly cringy it makes me want to kill myself.

[Anonymous No.6422748]

>>6422698
Did you play the game at all. I've never seen another game so well blend narritive and gameplay especially while also having such a high difficulty. It really is one of the most mechanically unique games out there.

[Anonymous No.6422753]

>>6421917
Great post but what the hell is going on in that picture

[Anonymous No.6422791]

I'll confidently say that I consider this game to be art http://www.locomalito.com/abbaye_des_morts.php

And try to beat it I dare you I double dare you.

[Anonymous No.6422822]

>>6422753
>she doesn't get pretty princess points

[Anonymous No.6422823]

>>6421939
hes right you know

[Anonymous No.6422830]

Frog Fractions is the truest form of video game art.

[Anonymous No.6422845]

>>6420288
contrarian detected

[Anonymous No.6422908]

>>6420663
>What I do I disagree that 999 has bad writing.
It has one neat twist (which was lifted from one of the writer's previous games). That isn't what makes good writing.

>>6421846
Remember11 came out after Ever17.

[Anonymous No.6423785]

>>6420663
Jesus, i hate this argument

[Anonymous No.6423809]

Ok fuckers, we've gotten some good recommendations and stuff out of this thread.

One step further: what are some good interactive fiction games? inb4 "Infocom games"
Please be a little descriptive. And remember they are supposed to be games, therefore they are supposed to be fun, they are supposed to flow. I found one of those choose-your-own-adventure books in the attic and it was awesome. Not at all complex, not a literary experience, definitely a game but most of the imagery was supplied from my own mind. It was fantasy and juvenile, very simple but it bloodied my tooth so give it, anon, give me what I seek and desire.

tl;dr good IF now

[Anonymous No.6423815]

>>6422139
Came here to post this. Literally the only example of vidya as art, and even then it's babby's first pomo

[Anonymous No.6423827]

>>6423809
do you have a download link for that? i cant ever find one

[Anonymous No.6423828]

>>6420819
Vice City is art-ier

[Anonymous No.6423839]

>>6420726
But GTA V is a barrel of monkeys
>not playing video games
>not watching porn

[Anonymous No.6423917]

>>6423827
kat dot ph
literally enter
if.... 1968

[Anonymous No.6423926]

>>6423917
lol that was my problem

i typed in 1963 instead of 68

thx anon

[Anonymous No.6423941]

>>6422208
> the commissioned pieces might have a better argument for them due to the nature of art at the time

you're literally saying they're "not art". that, and you are ignoring that they exist at all. if art was about creative expression as you claim then the bulk of art wouldn't have been commissioned

>pieces that are created because of the artist's desire to create them are essentially more [capable of expression or creativity]

except that doesn't make them art. art is more than expression or creativity if you don't ignore the history of art

[Anonymous No.6423957]

>>6423926
If the hostserver for torrents is still down you of course know to use the magnet link, based anon.

How about those IFs, people?

[Anonymous No.6423970]

>Crtl F

>No okami

Why lit?

[Anonymous No.6423987]

>>6422274
>Silent Hill 2 is probably the closest thing a video games has come to being art.

>What is Dust City
>What is Bokida
>What is Corrypt
>What is Death of the Augnob

[Anonymous No.6423992]

others already said it but you should give the souls series a try. especially in dks1 fromsoft managed to find a perfect balance between the hints the game gives you about the world and what happened in it and empty space that is left for your interpretation. you will develop your own thoughts and theories during your playtime.
demons souls and bloodborne are also great games, but ignore the pile of shit that is dks2.

[Anonymous No.6423999]

>>6423992
Dark Souls 2 wasn't that bad. It's probably the weakest of the 4 but still an outstanding game.

[Anonymous No.6424005]

>>6423999
>the four
Demon souls dark souls 1&2?

[Anonymous No.6424008]

>>6424005
And Bloodborne. It's similar enough to the others that I just bundle them in together.

[Anonymous No.6424015]

>>6423999
it is better than a lot of the games released today but it was a huge disappointment, considering how good the other games of the series are. in dks1 you felt like everything you saw and read about had a purpose and a story and in dks2 it was just some random things tossed together.

[Anonymous No.6424019]

>>6424008
What is bloodborne?

[Anonymous No.6424029]

>>6424015
The DLC kind of fixed that and felt like it brought things closer together but it's still kind of shitty that it wasn't that focused from the beginning.

>>6424019
Am I being rused?

[Anonymous No.6424035]

>>6424029
I have honestly never heard of it and I love the souls series

[Anonymous No.6424042]

>>6424035
I take it you don't visit /v/, you couldn't scroll past two threads without one of them being shitposting on how the PC will NEVER. EVER. get Bloodborne, accompanied by goldenface.jpg

[Anonymous No.6424046]

>>6424042
No I only go on lit and hm

[Anonymous No.6424052]

>>6421810
>>>/tumblr/
At least you had the sense to omit 'white'.

[Anonymous No.6424054]

>>6424035
Bloodborne is the latest game from the guy who directed Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 and supervised Dark Souls 2. Gameplay is similar to those games except much faster and shields have been replaced with guns (used for stunning not gunning). It is set in Yharnam which is based on Victorian London and the narrative is concerned with hunting beasts brought forth from a plague affecting Yharnam's townfolk. It is rich in religious symbolism and blends Poe and Lovecraftian themes and ideas. It is also really fucking good and only on PS4.

[Anonymous No.6424060]

>>6424054
I only have a 360

[Anonymous No.6424061]

>>6424046
>/hm/
haha homo :-DDDD homo peter :-DDD

[Anonymous No.6424062]

>>6424061
Yep :)

[Anonymous No.6424106]

>>6420043
It's certainly a plus when they manage to mesh both interactivity and storytelling fluidly though. Ico or Brothers comes to mind as games that tell an engaging tale mainly through interaction.

[Anonymous No.6424110]

>>6424060
Well that's unfortunate.

[Anonymous No.6424114]

>>6424110
WWhatever I don't really mind it sounds like some fedora steam punk game

[Anonymous No.6424117]

>>6424114
lol

[Anonymous No.6424120]

>>6420142
>>6422622
You guys are joking, right? In terms of narrative, David Cage is a hack.

[Anonymous No.6424127]

Video games aren't art. The ones that are getting there include Metal Gear Solid 2, El Shaddai, and Space Funeral.

[Anonymous No.6424137]

>>6424127
>Space Funeral
Does it have terrible JRPG combat mechanics like it's compatriot Middens as well or is it worth playing?

[Anonymous No.6424144]

>>6424114
haha

[Anonymous No.6424158]

>>6420006
> nobody even mentioned Nethack or Tetris
Get fucked in the ass, underage plebs.

[Anonymous No.6424164]

>>6424137
It's standard, outdated JRPG battles without any gimmicks, so I'm guessing probably not worth it for you.

The music, atmosphere, and text are top-notch though.

[Anonymous No.6424182]

>>6424127
see >>6423987

[Anonymous No.6425090]

>>6422845
>Playing AAA games
>Playing games that Kotaku say are good

[Anonymous No.6425106]

>>6420726
>Sitting around for several hours scanning lines of text
>Not a waste of time

inb4 some retard talks about "muh message" or "muh prose".

[Anonymous No.6425520]

>>6425090
>literally the definition of contrarian.

[Anonymous No.6425541]

>>6420006
>jrpgs
there's your problem

[Anonymous No.6425563]

>>6424054
hellgate: london?

[Anonymous No.6425666]

People shouting at each other: The thread

[Anonymous No.6425694]

SpaceChem is art.

[Anonymous No.6425788]

Animal Crossing is art toó.

[Anonymous No.6425871]

C R Y P T W O R L D S

It blends strange visuals, bizarre comedy, and social commentary into a very strange and stomach-churny experience about trying to stop the rapidly-encroaching end of the world.

[Anonymous No.6426134]

>>6425788
If I had to choose one game to be art, it would honestly be the Sims.

[Anonymous No.6426142]

Facade is art.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcvVa_FWXDA

[Anonymous No.6426280]

>>6421846
Late reply but fair enough. You're right.

[Anonymous No.6426308]

>>6426134
Does art imitate life, or does life imitate art?

[Anonymous No.6426351]

>>6425520
last of us is shite

[Anonymous No.6426366]

>>6420006
>that selection

[Anonymous No.6426524]

>>6426308
I dont know, Im going to go find some butterfly poon

[Anonymous No.6426542]

>>6420006
There's a much wider category of "video games" than that. If you want the ones that are really art, you have to check broader than the standard commercial AAA titles.

If you want an exploration of narrative in videogames, I'd recommend The Stanley Parable. It is many things, but it's absolutely nothing like the games you posted.

(And there is a very, very wide range of arty-style games which are an exploration of videogames as interactive art on the visual or audio end, but those aren't quite what you're looking for.)

[Anonymous No.6426555]

>>6426542
That said, there aren't really any good videogames that are like "interactive novels"[1]. Videogames-as-art generally tends to work better when it's presented as more analogous to a short story (a short narrative experience), or a constructed world one walks through and interacts with (more like an interactive painting, film, or musical composition), or a toy. Interactive media are usually lacking in the writing aspect, alas.

[1] except VNs, obviously, but those aren't exactly "videogames" and usually aren't very well-written either.

[Anonymous No.6426582]

>>6420006
That's kind of like asking someone on the street who reads a lot of books to recommend some with good narrative and interesting ideas, and getting recommended Harry Potter and other YA fic. (In fact, in the world of videogames, JRPGs such at those are actually renowed for being, well, all of those things you just recommended. Somebody recommending them as fascinating examples of the medium is so bizarre I actually wonder if this might be a troll thread.)

I know those certainly aren't the ones I'd have chosen given that question. Those are all large, commercial titles; they're really most closely analogous to super-popular fantasy/sci-fi fiction or big blockbusters - which certainly aren't what you'd look at to look for exploration of the media of cinema or literature! (But which you could conceivably be recommended by someone who mainly consumes popular media, because they seemed to contain new themes to them.)

Most of the experimentation and artistry in interactive media right now is coming from indie projects - smaller and often more obscure games, toys, and interactive experiences being produced by small teams of artists rather than large corporations.

There IS a lot of artistry and experimentation with the medium going on in videogames, though.

Here's some I'd recommend:

-The Stanley Parable. A sort of interactive metafiction exploring and deconstructing a lot of videogame tropes and the illusion of "choice" in a pre-programmed largely-linear game.

-Papers, Please. A dull, oppressive, totalitarian paperwork simulator. Builds an atmosphere and emotional feeling very effectively, while containing very little in the way of exposition.

-Proteus: More like an interactive painting than a story or a game. Explore a strange, endless world built out of music.

[Anonymous No.6426614]

>>6420006
interactive media is shallow in that it depicts a limited scope of something which you can interact with, the medium inherently is not only limited to production and technological design constraints when conveying a world and story, but also the scope of what a small group of people are able to produce, "the blatant power fantasy self insertion characters" is probably part of the problem, seeing as you already sever part of the imagination, but then you pigeonhole this shallow experience into a faceless "Neo" character, so inevitably you're forced into exposition and shit writing, games that take some piss ass heros story and distill it completely into a kind of videogame vodka, are pretty exceptional though
(Ico/Shadow of the Colossus epic meme)

[Anonymous No.6426692]

>>6422290
>Video games
>Existing for anything else than sales.
You's a stupider hoe, aren't you ?

[Anonymous No.6426964]

I have a feeling you are dismissing or diminishing part of the experience due to ludonarrative dissonance when most of the games on your list go out of their way to play with concept

[Anonymous No.6427001]

This thread is so fucking bizarre. It's like I'm not even on 4chan

[Anonymous No.6427018]

>>6420719
Bioshock and/or bioshock2

[Anonymous No.6427035]

>>6420719
Why is Majora's Mask on there? I mean, I'm not saying it's a bad game (it's not, it's good), but I certainly wouldn't call it an exceptional example of videogames-as-narrative-medium.

[Anonymous No.6427050]

>>6420719
Do we really need FOUR Silent Hill games on there?

[Anonymous No.6427086]

>>6425871
I just wasted few hours on this, unpredictability kept me going

[Anonymous No.6427104]

>>6425520
Better contrarian than a retard with shit taste.

Captcha: Shigi

[Anonymous No.6427118]

>>6427001
what do you mean

[Anonymous No.6427149]

>>6420138
i just spent 2 hours crouchwalking around the town trying to reach the spot on the map (without being seen), but i was spotted by some chad and he beat me up

neets beware, this game is no escape from reality, you will feel sad playing it

[Anonymous No.6427200]

Anyone played Cryostasis : The Sleep of Reason? It had a great story, gameplay and graphics unity in it, though it did suffer from some tropes and stretched out sequences.

I am very grateful for my childhood computer being bad and my internet being awful, it made me play many wonderful indie games with mechanics that today's big budget games and popular indie companies are only now trying to do.

Most of the times where it seemed it wasn't of much importance whether or not the game will sell, but mainly on that it is playable and that it is presented in a comprehensive way.

[Anonymous No.6427234]

>>6420006
well you have to appreciate vidya for what it is. most single player games have pretty similar basic concept (do x to get some form of reward), art, narrative and dialogue are just the garnish. some games are interesting for the writing, some for mechanics or visuals.

the witcher for example is based on an actual bestselling fantasy novel series from poland, the story is pretty deep (as in complex and thought out). i liked it way better than skyrim because instead of a fuckhueg open world there's a smaller one you really connect to. borderlands, the portal series and saints row (especially IV) are great for whacky visuals and dialogues. WoW used to be amazing when it came out simply because the world was so huge and the lore was so deep. every hill had some sort of backstory.

one of the older ones i loved was rayman 2 ... beautifully crafted, a little wonky but sweet and magical. it's about a mythical world that gets invaded by dorky spacepirates who blow up the heart of the world, and you have to fend off the invaders, save your friends and pick up parts of the heart along the way. everything was very organic, sweet and touching to me back then. they really made the lowpoly graphics they had work for them, too.

[Anonymous No.6427251]

>>6426692
Most movies exist for sales, yet they are considered art.

[Anonymous No.6427292]

>>6422047

Any word on what Russian speakers thought of it?

[Anonymous No.6427317]

[Anonymous No.6427328]

Knights of the Old Republic 2 has complex themes and developed characters, I'd say.

[Anonymous No.6427329]

>>6427251
>yet they are considered art.
By the same people that would consider every game as art, every book as art and every painting as art. That kind of opinions aren't worth listening to.

[Anonymous No.6427359]

>>6427118
Lots of posts that are more than a couple of sentences
Posts are supported too and not just "it sucks lol"
relatively non-hostile
almost no reddit, Tumblr, /pol/ redirects

[Anonymous No.6427367]

I believe that, to really be an example of video games being art, the example has to be a story that actually uses the medium rather than just being decently written. For that definition, three games instantly come to mind: Silent Hill 2, Spec Ops: The Line, and Papers, Please. Spec Ops is probably the best example of this, as it not only has source material from two accepted artistic mediums to directly compare it to, but it also uses the story in a way that only the medium it is in can actually accomplish, placing the audience in the role of a war hero only to reveal its proper intentions in the middle of the story. This gives it proper impact and a level of personal commitment that I feel actually makes it a better work of art than Heart of Darkness or Apocalypse Now. Papers, Please, on the other hand, similarly tells a story in a way only the medium can, but, unlike Spec Ops, it is done entirely through the mechanics of the game. Like Spec Ops, it begins in a way that is deceptively simple only to reveal itself later on, but this game does so through its gameplay rather than its story, not being a direct narrative as much as an entire game made out of subtext, something that doesn't work in any other medium. Silent Hill 2, being, by over a decade, the oldest of the three, isn't as refined, but it serves almost as a synthesis of the two. It blends Spec Ops's method of sending the player through what is essentially a downward spiral of growingly dark themes told indirectly with Papers, Please's method of becoming more intense by way of its mechanically driven story.

[Anonymous No.6427388]

>>6420006
Almost all video games are bereft of the type of depth and nuance you would get in a high caliber novel or film (or painting or play or music or....). Video games are incredibly expensive and compartmentalized, requiring entire studios of specialized workers to complete. The odd game here and there will have a visionary artistic director, but most sacrifice storytelling depth to rake in mass appeal and capital, and therefore must be catered to broad audiences

[Anonymous No.6427389]

Because video games aren't literature you fucking autists, it's its own artistic medium with its own criteria of aesthetics, with immersion and atmosphere being the primary goal. You might as well criticize JMW Turner for being shallow literature. Jesus christ. It has its own canon and if you don't start with the arcade you don't know shit.

[Anonymous No.6427413]

>>6427292
They gave it a lot of praise when it came out.

[Anonymouse No.6427429]

>>6420640
Aw you're adorable (and have respectable tastes) but >>6420481 is expressing a counter-argument to OP, saying that he's looking for artistic elements of literature in game design by analogating it to watching a movie for the music.

[Anonymous No.6427452]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXcwYgoGR0E

Relevant.

[Anonymous No.6427723]

>>6427292
They thought it was incredible. It got a LOT of awards.

[Anonymous No.6427850]

>>6426692
>>Existing for anything else than sales.
If nobody wanted to make video games for making video games there would never have been a video game industry in the first place

video games are just very dependent on financial success because they require a lot of effort and skill to be made and thus cost a lot of cash

[Anonymous No.6427903]

>video game stories are shit
>offers Jap shit as proof

Fuck the nips. They couldn't tell a story if their lives depended on it, except for a few rare exceptions. Mother, Silent Hill, etc.

Of course getting a decent story in a video game is going to be rarer and harder to pull off than in a book. There's a lot more going on. Most video game designers are not writers, but they're forced to write the story for the game. Also, a lot of games are built first and then a story has to be crafted around it, which of course is going to be retarded. Nature of the business.

Rare that you find a developer with a passion and talent for both the story and the game in which it takes place.

[Anonymous No.6428330]

>>6427018
Nope, get real.
>>6427050
I agree

[Anonymous No.6428350]

>>6427329
Are you seriously arguing against a visual, audial, moving AND interactive medium not having the POSSIBILITY of being art, when it's separate components if disassembled doubtlessly are all part of mediums which have LONG been considiered art, by everyone? You're a boor, sir.

[Anonymous No.6428358]

>>6427367
But The Line is a shit game that is impossible to play for longer than a couple of hours because it's so completely easy and boring, generic shit? What did I miss because I put it down, anon?

[Anonymous No.6428363]

Videogames never gona be art

Lit

[Anonymous No.6428376]

>>6428350
The interactivity negates the possibility of art.

[Anonymous No.6428384]

>>6420043
Its fuckng hilarious how gamers and so called media studies experts, aka the underachievers who took the easy route when deciding a field of study in college, are still trying to convince people that the bubble is about to burst
on games being the most thematically rich and profound medium for stoorytelling even as games worth worth playing are gradually in decline. More like desperation to make it out to be more than it is so they can claim they are actually purveyors of serious art and not lethargic couch potatoes trying to get away with wasting a shit load of time on games.

[Anonymous No.6428397]

I think I have figured out why a fourth of the posts here are people saying they never think videogames will be worthwhile, literary and or art.


It's the other half of us gen millenials. Our esteemed younger patrons were born under the oppressive yoke of current generation video and computer games, while us a little bit older saw something that they might never have been exposed to. I was born in '85 and grew up with a totally awesome plethora of games in the nineties and early naughties, and then it all kind of died away in favor of huge AAA penis rock solid inane titles, and you only have to get on forums of rpgcodex.net (A highly prestigious gaming magazine) to see it.

The ONLY reason I am not being a completely degenerated trolling misanthropist re: this subject is that things have been shifting recently, with a few good cRPGs coming out (the last one since these was probably VtmB: Bloodlines in 2004) and a few more that seem truly good on the imminent horizon.

[Anonymous No.6428413]

>>6428376
Interesting idea but I strongly disagree as I see the world in general as a kind of art. You will not likely bring me around to your point of view, but if you want to try I'll listen.

[Anonymous No.6428420]

>>6428413
>>6428376
By the way I will preface this possible dialogue with that I am not implying God and so I am also not invested in the idea that art has to have a purpose, rather the other way around.

[Anonymous No.6428425]

>>6428397
Survival games are all casualised shit.

[Anonymous No.6428428]

>>6420006
The Japanese prefer to create unapologetic escapism.

Western games promise realism or even multiple endings/relevant player choices, but usually still end up with a good vs evil on/off button. A pointless, linear obstacle course, just in two possible flavors instead of one. At least Japan is honest.

To make choices feel like they matter, you have to build the endings around political outcomes and which factions to support, with no "perfect" choices. Now you have to make up your own mind about which faction you find the least despicable. The interactivity becomes relevant again and the writing has to strive for more than mustache twirling villainy.

[Anonymous No.6428439]

Re-read that post and ask yourself if you ever played RE1, SH1 and 2.

[Anonymous No.6428441]

>>6427317
This game is the GOAT

Darklands is like its fantasy equivalent

[Anonymous No.6428447]

>>6420006
Fucking plebs.

[Anonymous No.6428452]

>>6428425
Or for that matter have you played the great NEO: Scavenger? Did. Not. Think. So. Little. Buddy.

[Anonymous No.6428457]

>>6428425
read
>>6428439

[Anonymous No.6428485]

>>6420719
What sort of quality are we looking for?

Silent Hill 2 has a story based on the movie Jacob's Ladder, and is inspired by David Lynch in general. "IHNMAIMS" is directly based on Harlan Ellison's short story and actually has him voice acting as the story's psychotic AI.

This makes the games stand out from other titles, makes them special. I don't think Portal has anything special going for it, other than good presentation. I certainly wouldn't attribute any other quality to Valve anymore.

[Anonymous No.6428489]

why is this nigger-head stupid retard shit infesting /lit/

video games are plebshit

[Anonymous No.6428554]

Literature>>Film>>Doom>>Other Videogames

[Anonymous No.6428559]

Here we go. I am hesitant in putting IHNMAIMS in there. Didn't like it. Not impressed with Harlan in general.

[Anonymous No.6428563]

>>6428554
You gotta play Brutal Doom in that case if you haven't, there's a bundle on torrent sites with OpenGL mod and Brutal an' everything just tied up for your playing pleasure

[Anonymous No.6428602]

>>6428559
>not approving Demon's Souls
Nigga really?

[Anonymous No.6428624]

>>6422529
Planescape is the only video game is the only game I can say I've enjoyed in terms of story/writing. Does anyone know any others like it?

[Anonymous No.6428647]

>>6420006
Games can only become art when their interactivity and limitations play directly into the message.
Shadow of the Colossus, and Killer7 are the only games I would call "art" with a straight face.
Planescape: Torment and Metal gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, and No More Heroes almost, but miss the mark.

[Anonymous No.6428650]

>>6420006
>Every one of them was 40+ hours of an overly sentimental hero's journey, blatant power fantasy self insertion characters, and mustache twirling cartoon villains. The humor is awful, everyone speaks in identical voice.

For a moment there, I thought this was yet another fucking Pynchon thread, because you could say exactly the same thing about his work.

[Anonymous No.6428657]

>>6428624
Fallouts 1, 2, and New Vegas, Deus Ex, System Shock, that's about it for the more well-known ones, to get any more titles you'll need to go to /vr/ and ask about point-and-click adventures.

[Anonymous No.6428725]

>>6420006
Those are all JRPGs, though. Your point probably stands, but you've played one genre of game made to fit Japanese standards and customs, it doesn't really prove anything final.

Your friend is a weeb, I'm afraid.

[Anonymous No.6428731]

>>6428647
>message

art pleb spotted

[Anonymous No.6428737]

>>6428376
this is incorrect

[Anonymous No.6428742]

>let me name all the games I have played as a kid
>0 argments for what makes them interesting plotwise, or, say, "literary" (say, as defined by russian formalisms.)
this is /lit/ why aren't critics.

[Anonymous No.6428747]

>>6428742
*you

[Anonymous No.6428749]

>>6427035
Not that guy, but it is. It has a premise straight out of a Kafka shortstory - the moon falls to the earth, but no one really cares about it.

(Some characters actually very closely resemble characters from the shortstories and parables of Kafka, like the postman who seems to be taken out of the parable "Des Königs Boten":
Es wurde ihnen die Wahl gestellt Könige oder der Könige Kuriere zu
werden. Nach Art der Kinder wollten alle Kuriere sein. Deshalb gibt
es lauter Kuriere, sie jagen durch die Welt und rufen da es keine Kö-
nige gibt, einander selbst die sinnlos gewordenen Meldungen zu.
Gerne würden sie ihrem elenden Leben ein Ende machen, aber sie
wagen es nicht wegen des Diensteides.

This obviously might aswell be a coincidence, and just imitating a great author does obviously not make the narrative itself inherently good, anyway)

But not only the plot is atleast unusual, the way Majora's Mask uses its medium to tell it is really good. There isn't really a lot of exposition, most of what is going on has to be explored by the player by doing quests, talking to NPCs, etc. The only case of a literary narrator, really, are the first few lines in the opening.

Also, Majora's Mask is a story that the player is not only able to explore at his own pace, he can also influence it in the two ways that influencing a plot is possible in video games: by skill, and by decision. He can, for example, fail certain side quests like saving the cows or the puzzles in the cave of the thief, which will then influence the story. There are also some cases of story-influencing decisions, like wether to give the final letter to the postman or directly to Kafei's mother.

On top of that, the ending has some good visual symbolism, and the main antagonist is not really a villain, but rather a character who did wrong things because he didn't know how to react to things "done" to him.

[Anonymous No.6428760]

>>6428749
Wait a second!
>Kafei
>feels himself "unworthy" in front of his loved one
>father is a beurocrat
>wears the mask of an animal and is hidden in a backdoor that no one ever visits, reminiscent of stories like Die Verwandlung or Der Bau
>Kafka
>Kafei
Could Mozart still be alive?

[Anonymous No.6428858]

>>6428624
Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and >>6428559

[Anonymous No.6429061]

>>6428602
Ok, haven't played it myself but with three or four mentions in the thread it's a given pick I guess.

[Anonymous No.6429072]

>>6429061
But only with the fan patch, unpatched it's a bug-riddled mess

[Anonymous No.6429077]

>>6420006
Is this related?

[Anonymous No.6429081]

>>6429077
Spec Ops is ridiculously overhyped

[Anonymous No.6429094]

>>6428358
Cognitive Dissonance

[Anonymous No.6429113]

>>6429081
I went into Spec Ops thinking it was just some shooter (which my normally level-headed friend had gotten all hotheaded about for some reason) and goddamn did I get a shock. If I'd known the tweest in advance, though, it would have been shit.

[Anonymous No.6429128]

>>6428559
Updated

[Anonymous No.6429176]

>>6429128
> deus ex
> no fallout
/lit/ pls

[Anonymous No.6429182]

>>6420698
I wish this wasnt an unplayable mess.

[Anonymous No.6429200]

>>6429176
Ha. Look again

[Anonymous No.6429201]

Has /lit/ played this?

[Anonymous No.6429435]

>>6427367
>makes it a better work of art than Heart of Darkness
Fuck off back to /v/.