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/lit/ - Literature

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6409871 No.6409871 [Reply] [Original]

Do you sometimes feel unhappy for not being raised in a high-society academic family, groomed from day one to enter the world of the arts or the sciences by elite institutions and private tutors?

>> No.6409874

>>6409871
Yes.

>> No.6409882

nah, you can learn just as much with an internet connection and library access

>> No.6409907

>>6409882
Well... that is clearly not so

>> No.6409937

yes, except for when i meet someone who was raised in a high class academic family who i'm smarter than

>> No.6409942
File: 28 KB, 615x409, Lover+of+Syrian+president+Bashar+al-Assad.+Hadeel+Al-Ali.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6409942

>>6409871
I would have killed for a Jesuit education.

>> No.6409947

>>6409882
Not all of us had internet during our childhood. You had to be at least middle class for that, assuming we're talking about people older than teenagers.

>> No.6409954

We get it OP, you like the social image.

>> No.6409974

>>6409871
Everyone has thoughts about how different/better it would be or could have been if this that or the other thing were so instead of what it is now.

But this >>6409937 could be the case. You would be someone else entirely and for better or worse. That person may be more miserable despite the wealth and free time.

Just try to make what you can with what you have.
Oh, and capitalism must be destroyed.

>> No.6409988
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6409988

>>6409974
>capitalism must be destroyed.

this

>> No.6409995
File: 85 KB, 277x339, Imagen 55.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6409995

>>6409988
try proposing alternatives instead of just complaining, wanna be.

>> No.6410006

>>6409974
>That person may be more miserable despite the wealth and free time.

Ah, "money doesn't buy happiness you know" - the ideological painkiller of the working classes.

You're not going to destroy capitalism with this complacent attitude bro. You're never going to engage in class warfare if you don't act like you're at war.

>> No.6410007

>>6409871

Good God you guys are seriously delusional if you're thinking shit like this. Reign your ego the fuck in or it's going to fuck you in the ass hard.

Jesus. Wasn't your mom a great cook? Don't you remember your dad taking you fishing or something?

>> No.6410010

>>6409974
well it's not that i feel better because i think of how different i might have been if i were raised that way. it's just that there's little better feeling than being clearly smarter than someone of a much higher social class than you. surely if i were raised in an educated, academic-minded environment my life would be better in every possible way.

>> No.6410016

>>6409988

(More of your problems stem from between your ears than beyond them)

>> No.6410017

>>6409995
the alternative was implied though.
Goodnight H-kun

>> No.6410019

>>6409942
is this assad's wife?

>> No.6410028
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6410028

>>6410017
tripping gets you tired.

>> No.6410049

>>6410010
Oh yes, not denying that. We all need far more freedom and proper education than what we're being given. (Why I signed off that way)

>>6410019
Files says it's his lover

>> No.6410060

>>6410028
>tripping gets you hard
ftfy

>> No.6410063

>>6410019
his mistress.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/16/assad-emails-adviser-hadeel-ali

>> No.6410085

>>6409995
The idea of "proposing alternatives" presuppose the notion that if we arrive at the right one, it will be transformed into reality somehow. Supposedly through the democratic process.

What we have instead is overwhelming evidence that even ideas that are beyond question (and those on the field of socioeconomics never can be) are simply ignored if they do not find common ground with the upper classes. Just take Global Warming: the consensus is there, the certainty is there, the risk is there, we're targeting a relatively small section of the capitalists (those who harm the enviroment somehow) we're proposing modest change (usually in the format of taxes and regulation), etc. It's a cause as certain as you can get, yet they can't just go through with it. Capital will have its way, with a few concessions at best.

If we start proposing alternatives, we're never going to find one that will get 97% of theorists on our side, and if we do we'll never be able to fight off that few million people who own half of the world's wealth on the court or the elections, so it's a waste of time. Alternatives are not *possible* through our current political processes, and we can't predict the situations we'll be on if we ever get the chance of enforcing one.

Absolutely the only route we're left with is organizing ourselves under a loose set of common points against the current system, i.e. complaining, and panic whenever we think of our situation as we gradually unfold the unpleasant truth that Lenin might actually have been right.

>> No.6410095

>>6410085

Now that I'm an ex-Marxist/Communist, it's pretty strange to read rhetoric that would have given me a boner 6 months ago but only makes me feel slightly embarrassed for everyone now (like the time that girl in my philosophy class started talking about "Theosophy" and "Energy").

Yikes.

>> No.6410101

Not really, nah.

>> No.6410121

>>6410095
Whenever someone tells me they were socialists or communists once my impulse is to make a few basic questions and see how far they went on their level of understanding. I'm not going to presume to know you, but I can tell you honestly that I very rarely get someone that went beyond what could realistically be called 1% of the "canon" during their "left-wing phase"

Either way, you're out of touch. Nowadays you have even economists as mainstream as Krugman or that dumb austrian dude voicing similar concerns. It's hardly something you can disagree with, you can only hope that this somehow will work out for the general good somehow.

>> No.6410128

>>6410121
>somehow will work out for the general good somehow.

Sorry everyone. Remove one "somehow" of your choice.

>> No.6410132

>>6409942
Can't they afford mural painters?

>> No.6410145

>>6410085
Just complaining and thinking that's enough is falling into the Spectacle. Just repeating out of context digested ideas is pretty much as meaningless.
Constructive thinking is great, let's try doing some.

>> No.6410161

>>6409871
Sometimes I do, but not so much anymore. My family is about as pleb as can be. I was even the first in my family to graduate college. Now I'm an ABD PhD candidate at a top school. Most of my friends and colleagues come from more intellectually inclined families and I can definitely see how it gave them a huge advantage in their younger years. I never really flourished until after high school when I went to university where I met some very brilliant people who were very influential to me and took me under their wing.

Sometimes I feel out of place in my social group, especially when they talk about their youths. I grew up ice fishing and hunting squirrels, they did ... I don't know ... whatever it is rich and cultured families do. I do notice that I have a lot more blue collar sensibilities then they do though, which can sometimes rub people the wrong way. But in any case, I'm on their level intellectually, and my family is supportive of what I do, even if they have no clue exactly what it is what I do (they stopped asking questions a long time ago).

>> No.6410174

>>6410121

There stands the Marxist in all is glory
shouting at nobody in particular
as the Sports Cars fly and the kids meme
"This is the year, it will all come crashing down."

And he wonders to himself
"Was Occupy a prelude or death throes?"

Meanwhile some man puts his hands to work
Dicing vegetables for the charity soup
Singing songs to his daughter
Bringing the old alcoholic friend over for counsel
Nervously knocking on his neighbor's door
Calling his brother up out of the blue
And cutting those old habits out once-and-for-all

>> No.6410206

>>6410161
I'm really jealous of how adaptable as a person you must be if you can fit in with them that easily. I once dated a girl from a station much above mine, and she was basically you at my country's most expensive, elite university, where she got in through government assistance. Once that became her milieu and her old friends started disappearing and the new rich ones started showing up our relationship went downhill.

I'm not even that jealous (either of her as a person or of rich people) but I remember some events like once at her house where they were discussing the most regular shit about their lives and I remember just feeling so out of place, so small.

>> No.6410210

>>6409871
Yeah.

Being poor fucking sucks.

Doesn't matter how much philosophy I read, tomorrow I'm gonna wake up and work another 8 hours at a call center. After all is said and done, I'll be able to take $60 home, which means that after working full time I'll barely be able to afford my local community college's tuition.

>> No.6410239
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6410239

>>6410210

We'll always have TV reruns of Good Will Hunting and Better Call Saul to keep us going.

>> No.6410254

>>6410006
It doesn't buy happiness. It buys misery.

>You're never going to engage in class warfare if you don't act like you're at war.
I've been thinking about just how for a while now.

>>6410210
I feel that pain.

>> No.6410265

>>6410254
>I feel that pain.

Do you work? Where?

/lit/ seems to have this interesting core of "working class autodidacts" that is really interesting for me somehow.

>> No.6410267

>>6410206
>and I remember just feeling so out of place, so small.
well I try not to worry about it too much. remind yourself that just because you're not from the same kind of background doesn't mean you can't compete on the same level of ideas if you're determined enough. Yes, sometimes it pisses me off and I want to say things that I probably shouldn't, but whatever, it comes with the territory.

I'm pretty selective with who I hang out with for the most part. I know some people who went to elite private boarding schools in new england, went to ivy league universities, etc. For the most part they're all idiots. They drive me nuts, especially when I think about how their private school education and family status/name alone got them into elite universities that I could never dream of going to when I was in high school, but as you grow up you realize the only thing that makes them better than you is that their parents have more money than yours. Now that I'm a little more grown up than I used to be I'm totally unashamed of my background and I've found how to use it to my advantage.

>> No.6410300

>>6410265
Yes I do. Sorry, but I shouldn't say where or what. It is "prole" class though. I had no reasonable education due to my parents thinking the apocalypse was nigh, so I got a bit of home schooling and have been released upon the world a socially awkward near hermit.

>> No.6410304

>>6410267
>For the most part they're all idiots. They drive me nuts, especially when I think about how their private school education and family status/name alone got them into elite universities that I could never dream of going to

Oh absolutely. The days of "noblesse oblige" where a certain standard of conduct was demanded from rich people are over. They're for the most part very anti-intellectual and arrogant about it, but then again who wouldn't be in their place.

>> No.6410315

>>6410300
It's okay. That is an interesting background, did you manage to get into college?

I think what fascinates me about people like you here is that I wonder if the reason you all ended up on /lit/ is because nobody on the places you go share your interest for literature. In my workplace they made fun of me for a month when I said I wanted to go back to college and study french lit

>> No.6410320

>>6409871
>you will never start your schooling with the Greeks and Romans

>> No.6410344

>>6409871
>Do you sometimes feel unhappy for not being someone totally different?
Naw.

Amor fati, mufugga.

Your mediocrity is of your own doing, take it as a lesson.

The Past is Data.

>> No.6410357

>>6410304
>Oh absolutely. The days of "noblesse oblige" where a certain standard of conduct was demanded from rich people are over. They're for the most part very anti-intellectual and arrogant about it, but then again who wouldn't be in their place.
can you detail this lack of conduct ?

>> No.6410375

>>6409942
>tfw Jesuit high school education
>Worked my ass off in high school
>Haven't been challenged by anything like it in the same way since then
The college experience is nothing compared to a Jesuit high school

>> No.6410380

>>6410007
I remember my dad getting depressed and starting to beat me and my mom getting laid off and kicking me down the stairs

>> No.6410383

>>6410375
I know nothing about them, what do they have to be so special ?

>> No.6410390

>>6410007
My dad left. My mother is a shitty cook.

Although I love her plenty for other things.

That being said, since I am making subsistence wages, and any climb out of this poverty-trap is slow and arduous, I certainly wish strongly that I could have just tried growing up in a wealthier house.

>> No.6410392

>>6410315
Had some college. Hit a ceiling of sorts and had to stop and get full time work.
Not sure how to get out of this cycle, so I bury myself in books.
Need to stop and write, draw, travel, something.

>> No.6410419

>>6410383
Just a much greater focus on delivering a well-rounded education that goes far above the standards that states have in place for education. There was also a hell of a lot of writing, with religion classes (They were philosophy classes taught objectively, not from a Catholic standpoint) essentially being extra essay writing classes that encouraged deep reflection and analysis that you won't find at any shitty public school. The only problem was that the school was all-boys so everyone turned into a virgin sperg in college when we all remembered girls existed outside of our computer screens.

>> No.6410433

>>6410357
I don't know what exactly you want me to detail.

My only experience with these people is the one I described in >>6410206 and things I hear from people who also felt out of place near the wealthy. With that and my current university as my only frame of reference, I can safely say that you get a lot more from what you might call a "proper" behavior from middle-class families than from the actual rich, and when I say proper behavior I'm including everything from everyday etiquette to things like empathy and integrity and sometimes even ambition.

My point about standard of conduct was meant as a comparison with not too long ago where you'd expect from the elites things like a standard of taste, of behavior, of life choices, etc. I think it was Bourdieu that has this interesting point about how capital, unlike "name" and "title" of previous generations, seeks to legimitize its positions of inheritance through the submission of its member to training on elite institutions that "in theory" are open to everyone as long as they're capable of getting in. This has such an effect on their self-image that for the most part they end up believing that their position was actually assured not by birth but by merit. I can't presume to know the global wealthy based on my experience with a few dozen people, but these few dozen people could be used as living examples of that. They're always on the defensive about how much they "deserve" their status. In their heads, they're not an economic caste but a selective group of the brightest and the best. And they have all the arrogance to match that, including the arrogance it takes to despise traditions and customs like you're above it. So instead of people with what you might call a "political tact" you get things like richkidsofinstagram.

I realise this might not be an universal rule and no, I didn't expect them to act like the brothers on Frasier or anything.

>> No.6410437

>>6410392
I know that feel.

I've been thinking about becoming a trucker, so I can travel around.

But I have local obligations.

>> No.6410446

>>6410392
I'm able to manage college + work only due to the charity of my boss. I have absolutely no idea what I'll do afterwards, because as old-fashioned as this sounds I really only got into college to get some culture, not vocational training. So I'll probably fall into the same cycle.

>>6410437
That wouldn't be so bad actually.

>> No.6410448

>>6409871
of course

the class you are raised in plays a big role in how successful you are in art. there are exceptions, obviously, but most poor people dont know how to realize their dreams until later in life. being part of that privileged strata gives you the tools to get started right away, and follow the example of parents, etc. but we all have dreams. dreaming is the easy part. most us can do it in our sleep

>> No.6410472

>>6410392
>Need to stop and write, draw, travel, something.
you are not mature

>> No.6410488

>>6410472
>implying that's something to chastise

We already know they're a namefag, which means they are probably immature. But that kind of youthful wanderlust (and selfish narcissism) is a natural and important part of development. I knew plenty of fuckwits who spent their twenties distancing themselves from this stage of development, and only managing to delay their maturation.

The youth should be youthful, when they act older than they are, they are far more intolerable.

>> No.6410516

>>6410304
I bet that in proportion, there must be rich idiots as there are poor idiots.
And with the rejection of the bourgeois dignity, with well spoken discourse, clothes and behavior, it shows far more than before. Especially, when the new rich since their lineage remains not at all elitist.

A good manner to see this is to talk the staff working in luxury hotels, especially the old staff who know how it was before the seventies.

>> No.6410519

>>6410375
I envy you so much. At my high school you got credits for taking lunch.

>> No.6410522

>>6410519
>At my high school you got credits for taking lunch.
lel, really?

>> No.6410540

>>6410522
Really.

>> No.6410542

>>6410472
What would you have me do? Somehow get a better job? That is what I was thinking of when I mentioned drawing. (or even writing) I have a talent, but it's in a very competitive field, so I flounder where I am.

I was stuffily mature when very young, tried to "make it" so hard, but nothing would budge. Then I just relaxed a bit and felt so much better. Trying to figure out how to combine all that I've learned.

>> No.6410555

>>6410488
When the dude who wrote House of Games switched switched political teams from Left to Right and therefore was for a week everywhere on the media talking about his newly-found realism Hitchens, taking a break from yelling about religion, wrote something that really stuck with me about him. He called him "one of those people who smugly believe that, having lost their faith, they must ipso facto have found their reason."

When people talk the way you're talking now, I can only think of something similar to this quote. Of course in our twenties we all want to be free spirits, but how come the people who succeed at it never look back and those of us who fail condescendingly talk about "maturing" instead?

I feel that people like you are the ones who wasted your potential and now you think you must have found your maturity. There's never someone like you that is at least humble enough to say that the life you're living right now is probably not the one you wanted. For you, instead, lowering your expectations to fit your lifestyle is just another stage of "growing up" instead of a kneejerk reaction to disillusionment.

>> No.6410572

>>6410542
I have hard time to believe that a lesbian can be mature. Why are you a lesbian ?

>> No.6410593

>>6409871

You mean being an overpriviledged kid, completely divorced from reality (hence a bad writer, but I digress), living off the labour of my father's employees and the fortune of his father in law?

Fuck that

>> No.6410602

>>6410572
Now you're being silly.
First and foremost I have always been a quiet person. A church mouse among church mice. I had an alright childhood, but it was just me and siblings, so a lot of play time was in my head. I'm just good at keeping things bottled up inside.
I don't want to go into why I got serious and tried to be mature in my teens and 20s.

>> No.6410603
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6410603

>>6410516

>> No.6410616

>>6410516
I think this is just natural. We're living in a post-Cold War scenario where it probably seems, to them, that there's no possible threat to their lifestyle out there therefore no reason to police your ways or those among your numbers. What we associate as the most charming and productive days of the aristocracy, for example, is during the 19th century when it must have seemed to them like they were on their last leg.

I think the "vulgarity" of the new rich has also become somewhat of a model to emulate, because society despises those born into wealth and loves self-made people.

>> No.6410892

>The Individual is defined by a "Class" spook

>> No.6410894

>>6410593
Laughing my fucking ass off at >hence a bad writer,

Who the fuck is Nabokov?

>> No.6410897

lol, you faggots.

>> No.6411564

>>6410897
yeah

>> No.6414368

>>6409871
yes

>> No.6414955

>>6409871
>itt;actual laborers

>> No.6415679

>>6409871
no