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/lit/ - Literature

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6400458 No.6400458 [Reply] [Original]

Why does /lit/ hate most fantasy?

>> No.6400487

>>6400458
>elves
>orcs
>dwarves
If these "races" aren't in, I tend to enjoy fantasy. If you remove Tolkien, fantasy becomes a more abstract science fiction

>> No.6400493

You dipshits who make these threads are FINALLY acknowledging that /lit/ doesn't hate all "fantasy". In any case, it's because 99% of anything is shit.

>> No.6400498

>>6400458
Jordan's The Eye of the World ruined it for me. The last one hundred pages were literally a struggle and were uninteresting.
Tolkien was alright, though

>> No.6400535

I think they hate bad writing, and fantasy stories tend to be written poorly. The idea of being able to do absolutely anything with a madeup force called "magic" is attractive to novice writers who don't realize that without proper well defined restraints, all they'll do is screw up the plot with every conflict. The standard middle ages/feudal era setting is lazy and overdone. The same races (elves, dwarfs...), are there. Worlds constructed this way tend to have mary sue or gary stu protagonists.

Harry Potter works because its a childrens book and set in modern times. The fantasy books geared towards adults that work tend to make magic a scarce resource.

>> No.6400538

>>6400458
sturgeon's law
low level of meaning
escapism
bad worldbuilding
redundancy

>> No.6400551

Because the overwhelming majority of fantasy is painfully derivative and uninspired.

>> No.6400563

>>6400487
I don't hate it, I just hate the "Colorful humans" thing. This is a human but strong, this is a human but fast, this is a human but he lives for a shit ton of time. I also hate anything where some god made the planet in a relatively small bubble, I feel like it cuts down a lot of chances, while a whole universe where said planet is just another one.
I love futuristic magitek settings tho, sad that it's hard as fuck to find anything on that kind of settings.I've even read some MLP fanfiction just to get my doze of magitek.
Does anyone have recommendations of well done works where magic is just another branch of science?

>> No.6400567

>>6400563
is just another one is infinitely expandable*

>> No.6400572

>>6400551
fantasy has ruined derivation

>> No.6400581

>>6400563
Mahouka

>> No.6400594

-Most fantasy is stiflingly unimaginative. -Characters usually think, feel, and speak like 20th-21st century Westerners.
-Not enough attention paid to language, too much attention paid to 'world-building'

I wouldn't say I hate all those epic fantasy series where each book is at least 500 pages, I'm just not interested in reading them. I'll stick to writers like Wolfe and Valente who really create something new.

>> No.6400604

garth nix is cool

>> No.6400614

>>6400594
>Valente
I looked this person up and Lmao.

>> No.6400624

>Catherynne M. Valente (born Bethany Thomas

>> No.6400632

Because "most fantasy" is published to fill shelves.

Most publishers are looking for one of two things. "Good Literature" or "Genre." There is no reason you can't write both. But it's not necessary, and so most people won't.

People either write Formulaic stories with Dragons, and Spaceships (or hard-boiled detectives and sparkly vampires, romance and crime novels actually sell more than fantasy and sci-fi)
Or they write an original story that does not rely on genre troupes.

If you chose the first, the quality of your book is less important. Publishers want a story they think will sell, not one they think will be remembered 100 years from now.
If you chose the second however, you will have a harder time selling it if it's not really good.

As I said before, you can do both, and in fact my favorite books are ones that do. But really, most people are lazy. There is no real reason to add Fantastic elements to literary fiction, and there is no real reason to make genre fiction good. In fact, the few people who do, often deny that their fiction is genre at all (IE, Margaret Atwood) because they've bought into the notion that the two are a dichotomy and don't want to be associated with pulpy trash.

>> No.6400775

>>6400458
Because /lit/ doesn't read for enjoyment, they read purely so they can masturbate to their intellectualism and philosophy.

Either that or they've actually bought into the 'patrician/plebian' dichotomy, in which case they're likely to overdose on pills within the next five years as gradually everything they could derive enjoyment from becomes 'plebian' to them.

>> No.6401710

>>6400563
>I feel like it cuts down a lot of chances, while a whole universe where said planet is just another one.
I've been pushing around this idea of a low fantasy standard medeival setting, where people worship a downed alien space craft. They don't know where it comes from, and it's never implicitly called a "space ship". They merely worship it as a temple of their gods, but the reader would be able to figure out what it is.

>> No.6401724

The Great Hruthiel of Wegetoth boomed out as the strangers approached, "who dares approach the Palace of the Wegetoth?"

Uzumizog, third son of Ploxrin, Lord of the Fair Castle, unsheathed Trexlob, the shimmering Sword of Destruction, and called back, "It is I, Uzumizog, third son of Ploxrin, Lord of the Fair Castle!"

>> No.6401737

The Hobbit was fun, but I got 1 1/2 books in to LoTR and just sort of gave up.

Norrell and Strange was one of my favourites.

>> No.6402267

>>6400563
Black Prism series by Brent Weeks.
Magic system is based on the Light spectrum, each 'spectrum' of magic has its own mass, physical properties, ect ect. It's the most 'scientific' magic system I've read.

>> No.6402276

Well, to begin with, it sucks.

And to conclude, it's bad.

>> No.6402281

>>6401724
Branderson stahp

>> No.6402285

>>6402276
That applies to everything, you vacuous boob!
GTFO

>> No.6402299

>/lit/ hates everything
>most of the genre is self-absorbed wankery anyway

>> No.6402354

>>6400563
>magitek
Wait until Mistborn Series 3 by Sanderson and you'll get your futuristic magic worldhopping tech/spaceships.

Like the other anon said, Lightbringer and all of Sanderson's books are probably what you want.

>> No.6402394

I have my own fantasy world full of elves!

>> No.6402408

The bible is boring.

>> No.6402439

>>6402408
Elves!!!!!

>> No.6402459

>>6402394
>>6402439
I AM ANGRY
ANGRY ABOUT ELVES

>> No.6402470

>>6402408
If you actually think this then ur a pleb who doesn't belong on /lit/

>> No.6402481

>>6402459
ELF!!!!!!

They're tall and they live a long time!

>> No.6402486

>>6402408
Because all the fun parts were either cut out or mistranslated until they became incomprehensible

>> No.6402504

>>6402486
Do you like elves? I like elves... quite alot.
Give me a cool picture of an elf.

>> No.6402508

>>6400458
We hate most books period.

>> No.6402512
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6402512

>>6402504
You are a disgusting person, Anon.
Disgusting.

>> No.6402599

>>6402512
This isn't an elf. This is simply shitty anime with pointy ears. I want a real elf. Like the ones in my fantasy world.

>> No.6402639

>>6402599
Elfs are just shitty humans with pointy ears

>> No.6402646

>>6402639
Not really, my elves are quite different... don't expect something that different but I went a bit beyond that.

>> No.6402662

>>6401710

Write a short about it buck-o

>> No.6402750

>>6402662
That's the plan.

>> No.6403434

>Mfw have this idea about a dude walking circles
>As in literally crossing a fantasy world in a straight line, exiting his city by the north and entering by the south
>Mfw want to make it as non derivative as possible, with most dragons dying young due to the radiation of their own causing canser, so there are less than a dozen adult ones who can truly control their magic, and phoenexi that are in a cold war with them because the fire of each is the only natural thing that can burn the other, shit like that
>No fucking elves, there are humans, phoenexi, dragons and griffins, each with it's own customs and languages
>Mfw I have to literally make a world for this
>Mfw I've barely started with the griffins
>Mfw this is only the first book, there would be another in another planet altogether, one in the point where magic appears in our world, wrecking the shit of pretty much everything and a last one where the another planet (A small planetoid orbiting a highly radioactive comet) is close to our solar system, and the first contact between species is made
My magnum opus should come along in
Uh
Forthy years?
Also I want to make everyone think than it was a nuclear war that made the magic appear but no, the magic appeared and almost provocated a nuclear war. It'll be so fun to rustle so mny jimmies.

>> No.6403483

'Fantasy' and all its thematic qualities has virtually nothing beyond perhaps determining the paradigmatic selection of a work besides or in conjunction with the techniques used in the production of a masterful text.

>> No.6403818

It's the generic settings and systems.
When it comes to magic I find a simple idea with basic rules works best.
For example: All characters can learn how to move objects at will. That's all there is to it.
But there are many creative ways to use that.

When you have a magic system that offers way too much utility people start asking themselves "Why didn't they just abracadabra out of this situation?".

>> No.6403830

>>6403434
Pheonix' you pleb

>> No.6404052

>>6403830
Isn't the 's/' particle used to indicate relation? Like anon's chest or petter's house?

>> No.6404058

>>6400458
>most
You answered your question you piece of shit.

>> No.6404690
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6404690

>>6402267
You should see some of the theorycrafting discussions regarding the Cosmere meta. Pic related.

>> No.6404775

>>6403434
The last spoiler reminded me of the Death Gate Cycle. The world was post-apoc Earth thanks to a nuclear holocaust but magic wasn't involved at that point in time.

>> No.6404795

>>6404690
This is pathetic.

>> No.6404817

>>6404690
At this point why not just make a videogame

>> No.6404818

>>6403434
>want to make it as non derivative as possible
>has dragenz

>> No.6404829
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6404829

>>6404817
There already is a Mistborn game being produced. If that does well, we might get a Stormlight vidya.

>> No.6405183

>>6403434
You've either got to a) drink less, b) learn how to spell, or c) both.

>> No.6405218

>>6400563

I mean you might like alan Campbell's Deepgate series. It's still got fantasy races (angels, demons, deities, and a giant) but it's pretty well done and the visual descriptions make it worth the read.

>> No.6405246

What does /lit/ think of Robert E. Howard?

>> No.6406201

>>6404818
Yeah, I know than they are just bellow elves, but I took care of making them deserve to be there
>Most die before reaching the two hundred years or so (Take into account that due to technological advance and evolution all inteligent species can live up to 150 years or so, and a healty phoenix can reach the three-four hundred) because of the cancer thing, and the bigger dragon you are likely to find is a little smaller than an adult horse
>They aren't just mammals with scales, their emotions tend to be relatively undeveloped compared to an individual of the same age of any other species
>Making flames out of magic alone is really tiring, the only way to use them to extensively is by drinking a lot of alcohol or any flammeable liquid (This applies to any kind of pyromancy) or having an elder god tier sized arcane well
>The oldest dragon there is, who is so old that even he can't remember his own age or origins, has to move as little as possible because, while he can plasmify steel with a flame and crush diamonds to dust, most of that strenght is used in spells that keep him alive mainly because his vascular systems are overtaxed, and even relatively newer adult dragons have to start to do this when they reach the thirty metters from tail to head or so.
>Because of reasons it'd take me too long to explain, a dragon can go feral if he doesn't meditate and train his body constantly, and the only way to stop him is to kill him.
>They have really, REALLY shity sight
The main strenght of dragons is that their genetic base can addapt to new conditions in two generations tops and that if they are healty they are strong, resistant, and burning them is a joke for anyone but a absolutely dedicated -and drunk- pyromancer or a phoenix
I am also balancing the magic so it's not a gamebreaker from day one and I can make it plentiful. Telekinesis for example is relatively common but the effort increases geometrically, so it's practical to take your cellphone from your table without leaving your bed but taking a big dog on it can blow up your brain, and added to that the weight of the taken object is placed more or less on your pectoral area.
Dah, enough rambiling. Gotta sleep.

>> No.6406209

>>6406201
>dragons are Vorcha

>> No.6406222

>>6406209
Haven't played mass effect. I avoid any game made after 2001 or so as a thumb rule and Three paths:The game isn't that appealling.
Also checked it and nah, they scales and bones are tought as shit but with their denisty they can take years to regrow and their meat is rather soft.

>> No.6406240

The Black Company was alright, you faggots.

>> No.6406245

>implying /lit/ hates the Locke Lamora bookd

>> No.6407102

>>6400775
>In which case they're likely to overdose on pills within the next five years as gradually everything they could derive enjoyment from becomes 'plebian' to them.

If only.

>> No.6407131

>/lit/ hates fantasy
>Literally posts and uses an anime image board website

>> No.6407138

/lit/ I'm going to name some fantasy and you tell me how much of a wanker I am.

>Name of the Wind

>The Way of The Shadow

>The Warded Man

>Black Company

am i degenerate?

>> No.6407291
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6407291

>2015
>Not reading Sapkowski yet...

>> No.6407341

Sci-fi >fantasy

>> No.6407794 [DELETED] 

>>6407291
Fuck off X Japan is great.

>> No.6407815

>>6407291
those look more like X-Japan fans

>> No.6407937

>>6407291
He's a fucking tool and a megalomaniac, in a not-Bret-Easton-Ellis kind of way.

>> No.6408135
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6408135

>>6406240
I read this today. I had a pretty good laugh.

>> No.6408165
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6408165

>>6407138
>name of the wind
possibly interesting world weakened by adopting the standard drama-filled wizard school and rags-to-riches coming of age story, and utterly damned by the unholy vortex of the protagonist, into which all potential is drawn into and sacrificed at the ego-altar of this atrocious mary sue

>way of the shadow
Haven't read, but even my pleb brother said it's merely mediocre entertainment

>the warded man
some acceptable concepts amidst the dreck, poor execution, lacks focus

>black company
Only thing on this list that makes me think there's any chance you aren't a complete wanker, and I ain't saying you gots good odds, yaknowhaddimsayin