Project: /lit/'s Philosophy Guide 2nd official thread

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Project: /lit/'s Philosophy Guide 2nd official thread Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:11:26 2015 No.6397294 [Reply] [Original]

Last thread: >>/lit/thread/S6384218#p6384218

WARNING: READ OP AGAIN IT CHANGED!

OFFICIAL /lit/ Philosophy GUIDE! The guide to end all guides on Western Philosophy!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE OPEN THE DOC AND READ THE PREFACE AND INTRODUCTION, IT WILL ANSWER MANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/edit?usp=sharing

>I don't want to read your preface and introduction because I'm a fag, I demand you to tell me what's this projects aim quickly!
Look at the OP image, the guy on the right is me and the guy on the left is you reading the philosophical books given by this guide. This means this guide is just a guide on what to read.

Hello /lit/ it's me again with the /lit/ guide to Western Philosophy.

Changelog:
Between this thread and the last thread alot more grammar and format editing has been done, a big one being the complaint of color coding used. Also despite proclaiming German Idealism was finished but further admendments were made!
>Changes in German Idealism section
Further sentencing errors and missing ISBNs were corrected
Minor update to Schelling
Book 014043335X was added as an cheaper alternative to the T.M knox editions in "FURTHER READING ON HEGEL"
Information on Goethe and Holderin were added to "FURTHER READINGS ON GERMAN IDEALISM".

In the last thread I also asked for improvements to the guide and I got one! The excellent post by anon the Medieval guy can be viewed here
The core programme of only ST Aquinas and ST Augustine in the Medieval Philosophy has not been changed, but now it has been expanded upon due thanks to the "divine illumination" of anon the Medieval guy.
This changed the one sentence mentioning of other important thinkers

>There’s also Duns Scotus, Ockham and Pierre Abélard and so on for more theological thought

to what's new in the Medieval section of the guide. Check it out!

>But but but you said there won't be any major changes since everything is basically finished up to German Idealism!
This is not a major edit at all as the core structure of Medieval Philosophy is preserved (Aquinas and Augustine). What's changed is merely a bit more of explication on the era and an expansion on who to read for more Medieval Theological thought.
Admittedly I was lazy here in not adding much to Medieval Philosophy as If I remember correctly I wrote Descartes first before Medieval Philosophy and wanted to preserve formatting (that is, keep Descartes's stuff on one page) by saving space. But have no worries this is now rectified!
Montaigne was added

Entirely new:
Skeleton of the Schopenhauer, Nietzsche & Kierkegaard sections added. Theres not much right now and I'm rather busy lately with personal stuff so I would like some help.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:12:30 2015 No.6397296
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/lit/ thread Q&A

>What's the purpose of this thread
Many hours were put into this guide and I would like to use this thread to spread the word & to discuss and review what's been completed.

>What do I get from somehow being involved in this project
Possibly better conversations on /lit/. It is you who benefit's the most from this project and not me, I am just some anonymous person with no tripcode.

>What do you think will happen if this guide becomes sucessful?
Well the aim is to reduce questions like "Do I have to read XXX Philosopher before YYY Philosopher?" or "Is XXX Philosopher worth reading?". I do not think this will replace actual responses (That is, instead of responding in detail the responder will just lazily link to this guide and tell him to fuck off)
but to SUPPLEMENT the answer given by the responder to the questionaire responding to these responder's

>newfag to Philosophy can I use this guide right now or is it too early?
Basically yes you can, only minor edits are made to whats already finished which won't affect the structure of the guide and edits to make it a bit more user friendly.

>Theres a misplaced image! How could you miss that?
As I add and edit stuff google docs may fuckup on me, bear with that.

>How do I help?
By keeping this thread ALIVE and positing suggestions, it seems to be that alot of people are interested by merely waiting for it's completion. I am only one person. Also by taking part in launching a campaign to have this stickied when this is finished.
There is also a suggestions mode in google docs, basically suggest an edit and if it's good I will add it. Or you can post in this thread some suggestions.

>I am knowledgeable, how can I help you right now?
1. I need someone to review the whole German Idealism section
2. I need a second opinion from someone knowledgeable on Hegel to look at a specific section of the guide regarding Hegel in pic related
3. I want a second opinion my Nietzsche ordering, I mean a review where you type a short paragraph on reading order so I can add it.
4. I need a second opinion on my second post below regarding future planning of the ordering.

Following two basic things I am unable to do myself because of personal issues:
1. Someone review the Nietzsche section
3. Really need someone to insert short paragraphs on the description of Kierkegaards writings, seriously it's a skeleton right now with no flesh.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:13:43 2015 No.6397298

Future help, later on I will need knowledgeable people on:

Process Philosophy (Whitehead)
Analytic Philosophy (Including Analytic Marxism)
Philosophy of Science
Pragmatism.

>What's the shit at the very bottom of the draft?
Future stuff, feel free to expand on the matrix by using the suggestions function

>How will the final version be presented?
It will PROBABLY be uploaded to the /lit/ wiki and a PDF editon will be uploaded. I guess the google doc version can also stay.

>Will there be Stirner/Zizek?
Yes and Yes, not having Stirner and Zizek would be spooky and pure ideology.

>How did this guide start out?
I was bored and got really pissed off when I saw this "guide" to Philosophy (>>/lit/thread/S6360534)) which was made by a old tripfag "Isabelle Huppert", a supposed PhD student.
It is pure trash and absolutely shameful if an real PhD student made it, for example it purposely omits HEGEL but included fucking Zizek (A fucking Hegelian) under "Queer theory" (An insult to Zizek's work) for example.
Another retarded decision is to have Lacan but no fucking Freud holy fuck fuck fuck.

>START WITH THE CHINESE/ZOROASTRIANS/HINDUS/ARABS/EGYPTIANS HOW COULD YOU FORGET THESE ANCIENT CULTURES YOU EUROCENTRIC WHITE CIS MALE! CHECK UR PRIV!
Make your own Eastern Philosophy guide, we are starting with the Greeks and heres a 5 minute "lecture" explaining why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhSi0vpeygI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RThu1bnkGJE

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:14:47 2015 No.6397301

I need someone to review this shit!
Planned shit:

MAJOR PROBLEM! Remember this project is not a historical chronology but a PEDAGOGICAL chronology and there is an major problem here here onwards in the late 1800's!
At this time I want to cover some of the following thinkers, ideas and school of thoughts:
Frege
Whitehead
Bergson
Husserl
Young Hegelianism
Marx & Engels and Marxism
Early Hermeneutics with Friedrich Schleiermacher and Wilhelm Dilthey???

THE PROBLEM being there is the guide is used SCROLLING down once per page and thus impossible to shove all these together in their historical chronology, it would be unfair to shove Frege with Marx & Engels for example just because they lived in around the same time.
So I have proposed a solution and would like you to review it

Ordering after Schopenhauer, Nietzsche & Kierkegaard:
>Young Hegelians
Feuerbach & Stirner (Fuck everyone else)
>Marxism
Marx & Engels (trigger warnings for right-wingers and liberals will be added, topkek)
Comrades who obviously belong to neither "Continental" or Analytic" categories the like Lenin, Gramsci, Trotsky and Luxembourg etc.

>French Spiritualism
Mostly Henri Bergson probably

>Alfred North Whitehead
Alfred North Whitehead and his process philosophy

>Français, Deutsche & Italiano shit
Continental Philosophy with early Hermenuetics
Also will include Marxists who are well embedded in the Continental tradition like Lukacs, Frankfurters Althusser etc
Psychoanalysis will somewhere under this

>Anglo-Saxon Shit
Analytic Philosophy with Phil. of Mind
Philosophy of Science
Pragmatism??????

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:15:47 2015 No.6397306

Reasoning:
As Marxism influenced both contemporary philosophical traditions (You know there are Analytic Marxists calling themselves 'Non-Bullshit Marxists"?) I have placed them first along with Stirner & Feuerbach.
After that thinkers influenced by Marxism will be placed under their respective Philosophical traditions.

I don't know what to do about Bergson, French Spiritualism and all that vitalist stuff. Bergson has large influences on Continental philosophy,
but cannot be placed there due to his Influences on Whitehead and had reactions (negative ones) from Russell and Wittgenstein

It would be retarded to put Alfred North Whitehead and his process philosophy under "Continental" or "Analytic" so here he is with his very own division on Process Philosophy!
Whitehead is here after the "French Spiritualism" (Really though it's probably just going to be Bergson) due to being influenced by Bergson. He is also influenced many Continental and Analytic philosophers.

For pedagogical reasons If I am going to add Schleiermacher and Dilthey with Continental Philosophy despite them not being in the tradition proper (They were around before the "divide" between Husserl and Frege)
but are exclusively interacted with by Continental philosophers.

Modern day Phil. of Mind is included in the Analytic section as it literally is completely dominated by Analytic Philosophy. If I'm somehow wrong here please correct me.
I have placed Phil. of Science right under Analytic Philosophy as Phil. of Science is almost completely dominated by the Analytic tradition, BUT there are some exceptions such as Canguilhem and Bachelard.
Pragmatism is a tricky one, I know jackshit about it and it is never ever discussed on this board.
If no one here on /lit/ is knowledgeable on Pragmatism I think I will just have to leave a one sentence line signififying "Pragmatism".

As for the reason Continental Phil is on top of Analytic, no reason. It's completely arbitary (I just want Continental above Analytic topkek) and switching the ordering will have no pedagogical effect.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:17:13 2015 No.6397312 Philosophy before Frege is totally useless. Just go with Frege, Russell, Moore, Whitehead, Ayer and Carnap followed by Wittgenstein, Godel and Kripke. After that you basically know all that matters in philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:20:21 2015 No.6397320 >>6397312 Go away troll, I refuse to believe some Analytic philosophers are this dogmatic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:21:20 2015 No.6397324 >>6397320 How is that dogmatic? I just don't like opinions and posturing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:30:54 2015 No.6397352 >>6397294 >hey guys look i use curse words im so cool

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:42:40 2015 No.6397378 >>6397324 Analytic philosophers may not like some philosophers but I know they aren't like you who disregard the whole philosophical history.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:46:02 2015 No.6397388 >>6397312 Please expand and add to guide. Thanks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:47:33 2015 No.6397391 >>6397378 >le men have more teeth >le angels on a pin >le spirit >le categorical imperative It's all bullshit, man. Get over it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:47:40 2015 No.6397392 >>6397320 m8, its pasta just ignore it

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 05:52:51 2015 No.6397403 File: 487 KB, 3840x2160, Sans titre.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] So guys someone review pic related >>6397388 Are you trying to pretend your me?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 06:22:17 2015 No.6397478 Looks interesting OP, loots of work done already.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 06:22:59 2015 No.6397481 >philosophy

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 06:28:15 2015 No.6397489 >>6397403 Nope. I just enjoy the idea of this guide, and you keep asking for someone with an Analytic background to help out.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 06:33:39 2015 No.6397503

>>6397489
If you want to help right now you can post a draft of some kind and I will copy it. If you want to help right now here are the guidelines (they are simple):
Remember this is not some detailed exposition but just a guide on what to read, who to read and what editons to buy. For example you don't need to explain XXX philosopher's take on Modal logic in a whole page worth of text.

A short bio is optional, if its relevant in someway then add it.

Also if you know anything on Philosophy of Mind, Science and Analytic Marxism please add it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 06:42:52 2015 No.6397513 >>6397503 >>6397503 I know nothing about philosophy. Sorry for getting your hopes up. I asked that other guy to help for purely selfish reasons.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 07:27:01 2015 No.6397585 Bump

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 07:38:13 2015 No.6397608 How about adding Schopenhauers "Aphorismen zur Lebensweisheit" to the list?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 07:42:00 2015 No.6397614 >>6397481 Bumping because this seems something serious. Thank you Anon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 07:45:38 2015 No.6397617 >>6397608 It's in Parerga and Paralipomena Anyways what I really need is a review of >>6397296 Pic related But more importantly >>6397301 >>6397306

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 08:24:05 2015 No.6397675 Wow thanks op shame im a noob in philosophy and thus cant help

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 08:58:28 2015 No.6397759 File: 553 KB, 2560x2489, QkfeDgr.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Pl... plz respond I need help revising!

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 09:21:43 2015 No.6397809 >>6397759 I've only read the platonic texts and that's it, but I guess I could link you a video about Parmenides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtOaALjauP0

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 10:23:44 2015 No.6397977 I know nothing of the subject and could in no way help, I'm just posting to let you know I appreciate your efforts and the time you have put in the making of this guide. Thanks m8.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 11:01:30 2015 No.6398136 Bump

Deep&Edgy !!BfzNblz4cXS Mon Apr 13 11:08:28 2015 No.6398165
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The R.J. Hollingdale translations are just as serviceable as Kaufmann's. Kaufmann was responsible for the rehabilitation of N. in the post-war period but has not been representative of the state of Nietzsche studies for decades. Ditto for Jaspers and Danto. That role is currently filled by scholars like (especially) Clark, Leiter, Magnus, Tracey Strong, Geuss or John Richardson. At least in the Anglo-American tradition. One immediately thinks of Klossowski, Lacoue-Labarthe, Deleuze, (Sarah) Kofman, Heidegger, and Derrida.

By all means, however, do read 'Nietzsche: Philosopher, Psychologist, Antichrist and totally a nice guy who didn't really have anything bad to say about people and whose philosophy certainly had absolutely no affinities with fascist politics at all WHATSOEVER trust me bro'.

Schacht's routledge book on N. represents a work much closer to contemporary scholarship without being especially divisive in terms of tradition.

Lampert's books are fantastic but difficult (difficult in terms of appreciating their depth, not difficult to read) interpretations of Nietzsche, even if, as Leiter says, as though this is supposed to be a reason not to read him, he is a 'straussian'.

>>	Deep&Edgy !!BfzNblz4cXS Mon Apr 13 11:15:31 2015 No.6398188 >>6398165 >One immediately thinks of Klossowski, Lacoue-Labarthe, Deleuze, (Sarah) Kofman, Heidegger, and Derrida. *On the Continental side Daniel Conway is also important to the AA tradition

>>	Deep&Edgy !!BfzNblz4cXS Mon Apr 13 11:32:23 2015 No.6398235 And if you want a proper Nietzchean film it would be best to watch Blade Runner or something like that, preferably with more action.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 11:38:59 2015 No.6398262

>>6397294
I don't want to suggest on the actual file because it would involve me having to sign out of my account to be anonymous. Anyways, one good addition to add for books about the history of philosophy is Julian Marias' History of Philosophy. It's really great and one of my favorites.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 12:12:25 2015 No.6398387 This Google doc editing is fucking horrible.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 16:41:35 2015 No.6399405

>>6397294
Great guide m8. I've bought and read Mythology of Edith Hamilton yesterday and started The Odyssey today. My question is when i'm finished with greeks guide says i should go with ST Augustine and ST Aquinas. The thing is i am from a muslim country i don't know much about Christianity. These are obviously books about Christianity. Would you recommend me other books such as bible or simpler christianity begginer books before reading the books you reccomended, or should i just skip Medieval European philosophy. Would i miss much because i am not very interested in christianity or religions in general.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 16:59:16 2015 No.6399477 >>6399405 All of European philosophy has European influence, I would suggest that you read the bible, or at least research Christian concepts like the trinity that the Islamic world doesn't get at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 17:04:02 2015 No.6399496 >>6399405 I've started Iliad, sorry. >>6399477 Can you recommend me any good beginner books for christianity? And are you the OP or a christfag who is trying to convert me?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 17:06:47 2015 No.6399503 >>6399405 >Would i miss much because i am not very interested in christianity or religions in general You can safely skip scholastic thought then. I would jump to Descartes instead

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 18:51:38 2015 No.6400001

>>6399496
Just a Christfriend. I don't know of any "Kebab's Guide to Christian Literature" but I suppose you could read online about various doctrines (Christianity is very modular). Key concepts are as follows
Trinity
Seven Deadly Sins (and corresponding virtues)
Original Sin
Temptation
Salvation/Redemption
Sacraments
Five Solae (Protestantism)
Ten Commandments (more important for Old Testament)
Predestination (varies)
Resurrection
Second Coming
Virgin Birth (more important for Orthodox)
You should read at least a summarized New Testament.
Parables and miracles play a large role in the mythology.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 19:26:12 2015 No.6400131
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Real OP here

>>6398165
I will amend it.

>>6398235
>Turin Horse not Nietzchean
>Bela Tarr not good
>More action needed!
Nahhh, but I'll Blade runner I forgot about that.

>>6398387
Your horrible

>>6399405
>>6399496
Sorry I'm not sure, I presupposed everyone here was familliar with Christianity and no I'm not trying to convert you I'm an Atheist. Yes Medieval Philosophy has strong influences on Medieval Philosophy.
Try >>6400001 he has a good list

Someone review this shit
>>6397301
>>6397306

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 20:10:15 2015 No.6400335 >>6400001 Not the Muslim guy but I needed to read up Christ too thanks

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 20:17:13 2015 No.6400371 >>6400131 If anyone needs help on Jeezus one should read this list and use https://www.biblegateway.com/ for a free online bible resource.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 20:20:19 2015 No.6400384 File: 603 KB, 640x1000, 1416539802505.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6400371

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 20:23:26 2015 No.6400404 >>6400384 Agustine and Thomas Aquinas are the worst things that ever happened to Christianity. I'l give you Philokalia though that shit is interesting even to me as an atheist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 20:47:50 2015 No.6400515 >>6400404 What makes you say this/ can you expand this point?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 20:57:43 2015 No.6400557 >>6400515 no, probably not. but he did get two or three fedora tips in there

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:01:39 2015 No.6400575 Is penguin a bad publisher for english and american works? or just translations?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:03:12 2015 No.6400587 >>6400575 useless. they don't even use bembo

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:03:30 2015 No.6400589 >>6400575 Penguin is trash for philosophy with a very few exceptions. Editions of English works are better from the top tier publishers as they have more scholarly support

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:17:18 2015 No.6400652 >>6400575 For English works they are generally fine unless you want something with a decent scholarly introduction. Whilst the view in >>6400589 may well be valid for German Idealism such Puritanism isn't justified for non translated texts.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:26:21 2015 No.6400691

>>6400652
Very valid for German Idealism. Hell Penguin is too pleb to have any translations of German Idealists, the closest they have been to that is a reprinting of the Muller translation of Kant's CPR. But for whatever reason that you can't buy non-Penguin editions of English works yes then Penguin is better than nothing.

Man it really sucks when all the people that are willling to help with things like
>>6397301
>>6397306
are not here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:31:10 2015 No.6400713 >>6400575 I bought Either/Or Penguin Edition. I dropped it after the Diapsalmata because they cut out a lot of content. Seeing the ellipses in brackets at least once per page gave me cancer. Ended up buying the superior Hong translations.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:35:30 2015 No.6400731 Daily reminder the whole "you have to read all philosophy chronologically" is intellectual poison. Read thinkers you think will be interesting to you, and disregard anybody that says "but you haven't read " " yet!"

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:40:19 2015 No.6400754 >>6400731 Can you give a bit more of a detailed explanation of why? Are you saying if one should want tp read Hegel or Nietzsche it is acceptable to read them without knowing the previous German Idealists or Schopenhauer?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:43:02 2015 No.6400764 I am incapable of helping but would like to say I really appreciate the work you lads are doing. I have already "started with the greeks" and found I lost the desire to shitpost.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:47:15 2015 No.6400786

>>6400731
>>6400754
If anything is intellectual poison it would be people like you dumbing down the thinkers by ripping them out of their philosophical context. If a thinker is actually interesting you would read everyone else preceeding the thinker in order to fully appreciate the thinker's work.

I would not recommend anyone to read Nietzsche without reading Schopenhauer (at the very minimum) just cause "Schopenhauer aint interesting!!"

>>6400764
>I lost the desire to shitpost.
What? I never knew that could happen, explain yourself.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:47:17 2015 No.6400787

>>6400754
These thinkers are standalone on their own right.
Obviously they have been heavily influenced by previous thinkers, but that does not mean one should read everything that was influential to a thinker.

I think you give the wrong idea to people, especially the kind of people on this board.

These people are not philosophy scholars, they are not going to be tracing influence across philosophy, nor should they have to.

If you want to read Kierkegaard without reading Hegel or Marx, there is literally no rational reason as to why this would be looked down upon, outside of scholarly studies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 21:47:56 2015 No.6400793 >>6400731 >starting with the Slovenian >finish with the Greeks Sounds interesting..

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:00:26 2015 No.6400848

>>6400787
>These thinkers are standalone on their own right.
I would really like you to say that regarding Hegel.

Why does one read Philosophy? To learn?
But if one does not read properly how can one learn?

>If you want to read Kierkegaard without reading Hegel or Marx, there is literally no rational reason as to why this would be looked down upon, outside of scholarly studies.

Is proper reading just exclusive to scholarly studies?

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:08:40 2015 No.6400879

>>6400786
I guess I thought of the Western Philosophy canon as an abstract "leviathan" if you will. A herculean undertaking that someone like myself could never complete or understand. I used to post threads about how Nietzsche was childish or Schopenhauer was misogynist even though I never really understood them and I mostly came here for the memes. Now I see how, while not easy, the books are manageable given access to the internet and a library card and meagre funds. I sincerely want to better myself. I have no delusions of being as well read of understanding as much as someone who learned this in university but as long as I get something from it I will be happy.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:15:07 2015 No.6400905
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Notice to all who want to learn about Marxism, read the pic related!

>>6400879
Start with the greeks anon, and just enjoy it at your own pleasure. Remember to download online versions.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:15:15 2015 No.6400906

>>6400848
>proper reading

Define "proper reading".

I don't even know what that means, I'm assuming you think it means "reading chronologically".

If someone asked me "where do I start with Kierkegaard?" I would not say "start with Hegel and Marx" (which would lead to a discussion of who influenced them), I would say just read Kierkegaard, because because if you cannot understand Kierkegaard in his own words, and not secondary sources and influences, then he has failed as a philosopher.

A but of historical context would help, and obviously reading influences helps, but reading the entirety of philosophy prior to a certain thinker, in order to understand that thinker is delusional.

Leave long-winded reading to actual scholars.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:18:27 2015 No.6400917 File: 118 KB, 666x728, das it mane.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I just came back to /lit/ after some months and I fucking love you for making this shit, OP. Keep it going.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:27:40 2015 No.6400944 READ INTRO BOOKS FIRSY E A D I N T R O B O O K S F I R S T Nigel Warubrton, Brrtrand Russel, Routledge Contemporary Introduction Séries etc.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:29:32 2015 No.6400949

>>6400906
>Proper reading
Reading through the canon in a pedagogical chronology aka starting with the Greeks. One starts with the Greeks not because they are historically before everyone else but they are pedagogically before everyone else

>If someone asked me "where do I start with Kierkegaard?" I would not say "start with Hegel and Marx" (which would lead to a discussion of who influenced them),
>Marx
Kierkegaard has nothing to do with Marx but whatever.

I would say just read Kierkegaard, because because if you cannot understand Kierkegaard in his own words, and not secondary sources and influences, then he has failed as a philosopher.
>Failed
Who? The reader or Kierkegaard? If the reader fails then it's his lack of philosophical background (starting with the Greeks).

>Leave long-winded reading to actual scholars.
This is definitely not a website for academia but your just propagating ivory tower intellectualism. If anyone is being elitist it is you.

>>6400944
>Bertrand Russell
Yeah his book is totally not biased!

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:30:13 2015 No.6400953 Anyway, do you guys think I would greatly benefit of readin an history of philosophy book like Durant's one or should I just jump to the Greeks?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:32:07 2015 No.6400966 >>6400953 History of philosophy books may not be required but check out the other stuff in the Introduction of the guide like Bryan Magee's interviews and the Encylopedias.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:53:25 2015 No.6401028

>>6400966
I'm not really fonf of podcasts/lectures because my spoken English comprehension isn't that good, specially frome old footage (I can't seem to understand shit from people before the 80s for some reason)

Also, you guys should add Logic books for newfags to the guide (unless you did and I didn't see them/haven't got to that part)

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 22:56:04 2015 No.6401036

>>6400949
The Problems of Philosophy is one of the best intros to philosophy, dipshit.

As for history of philosophy, stick to Anthony Kenny's. He's a serious scholar who's written books on philosophers of every period (Aristotle, Aquinas, Frege, and othes). He's very knowledgeable and his New history of western Phil is great.

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:03:08 2015 No.6401053

>>6401028
Prior knowledge to starting with the Greeks is good so grab some book to read then.

>Logic books
What exactly for? Newfags start reading the History of Western philosophy and the Greeks.

>>6401036
>The Problems of Philosophy is one of the best intros to philosophy, dipshit.
I thought you meant Russell's "A History of Western Philosophy".

>Kenny
Added

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:12:06 2015 No.6401077

There is seriously no other secondary commentary on Hegel? I want to read about Hegel but I don't want to hop in the introductory lectures of Philosophy of History if I will not understand anything.

I prefer to read a commentary first and then hop in... There is something like that for Hegel? Or I should start with the introductory lectures and suck it up?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:16:02 2015 No.6401088 File: 249 KB, 1587x1298, Sans titre.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6401077 AHEM DID YOU LOOK AT THE HUGE CHUNKS OF PAGES BEFORE PHILOSOPHY OF HISTORY LIKE PIC RELATED? OR THE COMMENTARIES AND INTERPRETATIONS LISTED?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:19:26 2015 No.6401103 >>6401088 Sorry, I forgot to say that I speak spanish and I couldn't find Jameson in spanish

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:21:37 2015 No.6401118 File: 139 KB, 393x600, pid_7810[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The patrician choice for Nietzsche editions.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:22:08 2015 No.6401123 >>6401103 What what what what? Jameson's work is a commentary on Phenomenology of Spriit, heres the ISBN for the introduction to Hegel 0521291992. Wait have you started with the Greeks???

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:23:26 2015 No.6401133 >>6401118 >Adrian Del Caro Literally who? No one beats Kaufmann on translations.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:24:35 2015 No.6401142 >>6401123 Yes, thanks

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:47:14 2015 No.6401243

>>6398235
d&e you so knowledgeable, why don't you contribute?
surely you could churn out a few paragraphs on subjectivism that would be useful to be drafted for this board?

also you're doing God's work op keep it up

Even a brief 1-2 paragraph summary on the major positions of a list of essential philosophers would be killer, including ones like
> Klossowski, Lacoue-Labarthe, Deleuze, (Sarah) Kofman, Heidegger, and Derrida

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:48:34 2015 No.6401248 >>6400764 >I have already "started with the greeks" and found I lost the desire to shitpost my eyes are welling up with tears of joy

Anonymous Mon Apr 13 23:57:44 2015 No.6401283

>>6400691
How does a non penguin work by Orwell differ from a penguin work or Orwell?

I always conceded that penguins deserve the bashing they get when it comes to the German idealists, but I have yet to see any evidence that its English or modern English works are inferior other than the fact they might not have the best introductions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 00:04:32 2015 No.6401320 >>6401283 I'm not sure about literary works but are OKAY but really not the best due to extensive scholarly support with notations, footnotes, appendices etc. In fact I listed some Penguin books in my guide for English works as an alternative.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 00:56:14 2015 No.6401541 >>6401118 No way that's a horrible translation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 01:23:21 2015 No.6401666 >>6401248 If I start with the greeks will it cure me of my desire to argue with people on the internet who are too young to remember 9/11?!?!

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 01:53:46 2015 No.6401750 >>6400001 Thank you m8. I saved and will check

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 02:26:37 2015 No.6401811 File: 443 KB, 3840x2160, Sans titre.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I need someone to review to this section on the ordering. Thanks!

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 03:16:01 2015 No.6401928 >>6401811 My feels for you OP, no one is helping you out(I can't either lel).

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 04:07:32 2015 No.6402001 >>6401928 Bump

Anonymous Tue Apr 14 08:57:35 2015 No.6402574

Here are some reading lists and study guides from revleft

http://www.revleft.com/vb/blog.php?b=7728

http://www.revleft.com/vb/rev-left-study-t172829/index.html?s=9777ed6757d13f3b28994fecf9b34c8e&

Here is an online dictionary/encyclopaedia of Marxist terms

https://www.marxists.org/glossary/index.htm

This probably wont be helpful but here is a good book containing fair amount of
Marx’s works in an abridged form

http://www.amazon.com/The-Marx-Engels-Reader-Second-Edition/dp/039309040X

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 09:34:43 2015 No.6402680 Well, might as well ask in this thread, since it's related to what books on Marx one should read: Is David Harveys companion to Das Kapital worth picking up?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 09:36:29 2015 No.6402685 >>6402680 ask in the marxist thread

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 09:38:55 2015 No.6402694 >>6402685 >asking marxists what books on marx you should read topkek

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 13:43:55 2015 No.6403417 WOW Thanks a lot for this! All the secondary reading materials and everything included is amazing. Bookmarked the document

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 13:50:38 2015 No.6403438 >>6401028 >Logic books That's not Philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 14:28:50 2015 No.6403542 >>6403438 "The study of logic features most prominently in the subjects of philosophy, mathematics, and computer science." It is to a point.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 15:21:04 2015 No.6403673 I'm really impressed OP. Thank you

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 15:47:31 2015 No.6403766 >>6397294 What you are doing is fantastic, thank you. I added some info on Max Weber, someone should review it, since I am not used to write in english.

Anonymous Tue Apr 14 18:54:07 2015 No.6404520

>>6397312

All those Philosophers would disagree with you, and all serious professors of Philosophy in our current day would disagree with you. Russell had a major love for Leibniz, and Whitehead was the one who claimed that all Philosophy is just a footnote to Plato. The thing is, serious Philosophers aren't bound by ideological prejudices like you are( at least not to that great of a degree).

This is Medieval anon, thanks for taking my suggestions into consideration. The one thing we may need to clarify is that The Condemnations of 1277 influenced thinkers like Scotus as well, as an idealization the list is good as it is, but Scotus is kind of an anomalous figure because on one hand he is still within the Aristotelean framework, but he did do all his major work after the Condemnations were written and in some cases he did break away from Aristoteleanism, but perhaps in a different way than Ockham and Buridan did. I'm not sure what an easy way to cover these subtleties would be. We could maybe just drop mention of the Condemnations in general and that would make us less dedicated to maintaining that Scotus was a pre-condemnations figure.

Good job so far!

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 19:13:16 2015 No.6404573 >>6397294 This has the potential of changing my life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 14 19:18:08 2015 No.6404593 >>6397294 Your stances on book publishers, especially on Penguin, are begging the question.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 05:19:06 2015 No.6406154 >>6404520 What works/editions of the extra medieval philosophers would you recommend? >>6404593 Elaborate? Not OP.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 08:39:44 2015 No.6406500 >>6401077 Actually with almos anything"lectures of Hegel", you should the actual lectures instead of the Introduction. I skipped the eastern spirit volume of Philosophy of History(with the Intro being there) and still got most of it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 09:04:16 2015 No.6406547 >>6406154 >Elaborate? He constantly tells us they're bad without giving much evidence.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 12:33:31 2015 No.6406998

Hey guys. I'm finding a board where it's close to philosophy and /lit/ is the only one I found. I created a thread about it and I did not see this one.
I'm sorry for that.

My professor in philosophy asked the whole class these bunch of questions and whoever answered 4 of them is exempted for the whole class.
You wouldn't even need to attend at all. He'll automatically pass you.
So i'm asking /lit/, please.

1.Give something that doesn't have an end.
2.Give something that did not have a beginning/started at nothing.
3.Give something that doesn't have any value.
4.Give a "word" that doesn't have a meaning/value.
5."How do you know, that you know?".
6."How sure are you that you are sure?".

Thanks /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 12:43:00 2015 No.6407022 >>6406998 1.) Infinite 2.) Infinite 3.) Everything or nothing 4.) There are words which don't have value/meaning but if I identified one that would give it meaning, so not possible

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 12:45:18 2015 No.6407030 >>6406998 The answer to all of them, if you believe, is God. I'm pretty sure it's some kind of joke.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 12:52:40 2015 No.6407052 >>6406998 >>6407030 Expanding >1 to 3 refer to out good pal Aquinas. >4 The word God can't represent all that He is >5 "Because God says so" >6 "Completely sure of my faith"

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 12:54:41 2015 No.6407056 >>6407030 I'm assuming it's a trick to notice the god-heads and take them out of his class so they don't bother him.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 12:59:58 2015 No.6407069 For an introduction to the history of philosophy, how is From Socrates to Sartre by T.Z. Levine?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 13:08:09 2015 No.6407079 >>6406998 1.)Circle. 2.)Space/Time 3.)Null 4.) 5.)I know that I know nothing. 6.)Descartes told me so.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 13:15:55 2015 No.6407095 >>6406998 if this is real, then your professor is a complete idiot.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 13:20:32 2015 No.6407097

>nope
excerpt from guide:

"
On bias
I am a Marxist and an atheist, my main interests in philosophy are Post-Structuralism, Structuralism, Critical Theory, Lacanian psychoanalysis, Schelling, Schopenhauer and Philosophy of Music (so basically Aesthetics). Having admitted these possible vectors of bias of course does not absolve me of any mistakes due to bias in this guide.
Since you are a Marxist will you cover Marx?
Yes for a few reasons. First off I think it is fair to say /lit/ has a fair amount of Leftists (I mean Leftists in general and not Marxists). Second of all, Marx has a very large influence on Continental thinkers and /lit/ loves Continental thinkers (Also there are some Analytic thinkers influenced by Marx too!). Three, if you're a right-winger or a liberal why not read it to critique it?
"

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 13:44:26 2015 No.6407154

>>6406998
>1. The set of natural numbers, N \ {0}
>2. The set of integers, Z \ {0}
>3. Ambiguous question. Depends what you mean by "value".
>4. Again, depends what you mean by "value" and "meaning". Within the framework of English, however: "lkjfdsfmsdf". Then again, how does one know that "lkjfdsfmsdf" hasn't been defined by someone somewhere?
>5. Because there is plenty of first-person evidence for it.
>6. Depends on the case. If the case is probabilistic, then my degree of belief is proportional to the probability computed. If it is axiomatic, then my degree of belief is as sure as it can be.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 14:00:15 2015 No.6407197

>>6397294
Firstly, great job on the guide, I wonder how long you predict it would take one to read all of those texts properly, I imagine quite some time.

Secondly, you say a few times about how universities are strict on the publishers etc. I found this funny because i attend one of the top uk unis (not oxbridge) and they regularly recommend penguin additions

To be honest though, the way philosophy is taught at my university is awful, there is no chronology which as many have rightful pointed out is essential to understanding philosophers. we have had one module on the ancient greeks on plato, I have never learnt anything about any other greek philosopher (including aristotle) and we had a whole module on hume without any study of locke, marx without any study of hegel and 60% of our modules were centred on 21st century analytic philosophy without any reference to earlier philosophies (besides a brief slide on descartes maybe) it's a joke and an insult that this is how a top university teaches philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 14:08:38 2015 No.6407220 >>6407197 just say what university you go to. I bet it's Warwick isnt it?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 14:11:40 2015 No.6407229 >>6407220 nah its not its notts, which arguably isnt the highest for philosophy but still taught like shit

>>	Herky Wed Apr 15 14:33:24 2015 No.6407284 >>6400764 That's funny, most of my shit-posting is just replying with direct quotes (translated) from the Illiad.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 14:37:08 2015 No.6407294 >>6407197 humicist college, disgusting

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 15:16:25 2015 No.6407415 Could you please clarify the order of which you suggest the reading of all of Plato's Dialogues in?

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 15:54:58 2015 No.6407557

>>6406154

The obvious one for Boethius is The Consolation of Philosophy, where he discusses fatalism/free will in a Theological context.

For Anselm his best known works are the Monologion and the Proslogion. In the later comes the Ontological Proof of Gods existence.

For Abelard "Ethics" also known as "Know Yourself" and "The Letters of Abelard and Heloise." would be a nice supplement. Heloise, was secretly betrothed to Abelard until they were discovered and Heloise' uncle hired a gang of thugs to castrate Abelard, she was perhaps the first great female Philosopher and it shows in her letters to Abelard."The Glosses of Peter Abailard on Porphyry" has good discussion of Abelard's account of why Universals are only linguistic devices.

For John Duns Scotus The Ordinatio is considered his most important work, but for something shorter Tractatus de Primo Principio (Treatise on the First Principle) would be best.

For Ockham and Buridan I'l have to get back to you, since I always study them in a fragmented manner. Anything who does'nt like Scotus ought to check out Ockham's critique of the Ordinatio.

One suggestion I would have for texts is that people buy " Basic Issues in Medieval Philosophy" 2nd edition, by Bosley and Tweedale. I has selections from most of the really important topics in the period, and has sections of Aristotle necessary to understand them. Most importantly it has a large index that clarifies all the period specific terminology at work, and there is quite a bit in Medieval Philosophy. I don't see anyone having a good understanding of Medieval texts without understanding what is meant by "Instants of Nature", " Divided and Composite senses" or " Perfection" and Aristotelian terminology like "act vs potency" " The four causes" and ect, 12 pages of the book covers terminology and they make note in the texts when you should be going back and looking for a definition of the terms. This book also includes strong background pieces for every included issue that are very accessible.

http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Issues-Medieval-Philosophy-Interactive/dp/1551117150/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429127291&sr=8-1&keywords=Issues+In+Medieval+Philosophy

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 17:12:01 2015 No.6407874 File: 305 KB, 400x223, gif.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] w2r to learn about big other

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 17:17:28 2015 No.6407894 >>6407415 just start with the greeks

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 17:18:17 2015 No.6407897 >>6407894 >try starting with the greeks >can't fucking see the unformated guide help

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 17:18:52 2015 No.6407900 >>6400404 >biggest names in christian philosophy >worst thing to happen to christianity

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 17:19:57 2015 No.6407904 >>6407415 very few but the basis 1) rival lovers 2) Ion 3)Apology

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 23:26:17 2015 No.6409761 bump. Dont let it die

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:23:25 2015 No.6410033 File: 1.07 MB, 3672x3024, 1410622362089.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6407897

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 01:09:23 2015 No.6410199 Bump

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 02:02:39 2015 No.6410367 >>6397403 Are the Penguin Classics editions of Nietzsche really that bad? My entire Nietzsche collection (save for The Gay Science) consists of those editions because they were the only copies I could find. Are the translations really that different?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 05:51:43 2015 No.6410916 >>6407557 Thanks mate.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 09:14:32 2015 No.6411282 >>6410033 Well needed

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 13:46:42 2015 No.6412053 why was this made so that any fucker can edit in their epic memes like is happening now on every page?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 16:11:31 2015 No.6412529 Hey, sorry to bug you guys, but this seems like the most likely place to ask. I've been gone for a while. Is that Patrician's Pledge book club still a thing, or did they give up?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 16:13:01 2015 No.6412542 >>6397294 >PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE OPEN THE DOC AND READ THE PREFACE AND INTRODUCTION, IT WILL ANSWER MANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS! I didn't find any section dealing with how to persuade my gf to do anal with me

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 17:07:30 2015 No.6412775 This hasn't been update in a couple of days. I feel sad now, I await the finish of this so I can purchase all the books and make a hermitage in the woods of Canada

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 21:10:40 2015 No.6413901 >>6412775 It's probably going to be a WIP for awhile, but there's nothing stopping you from starting right now. It seems like everything pre-19th century is finished. Also purchasing all the books at once is going to be ludicrously expensive.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 21:33:08 2015 No.6414001 >>6413901 I do not begin my journey for another 2 years. I bet the books will come out to about $4000 but that's just a guess. It will be worth it though, for I shall study them all.

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 22:43:44 2015 No.6414245

>>6414001
why not now?

even if it's just slow and you aren't using your full focus

like I'm bored and have studied some philosophy but as it wasn't my major study I jumped between a lot of diff analytic classes. So I figure just pick up from the greeks and start some from the beginning. Like just read the myths and illiad at my convenience. Idk why you seem to be looking at this like it's gotta have your fullest attention or you have to be in the right time or place for it.
I wish I could help give analytic stuff but I just don't feel confident. I'll help edit stuff in these threads if I catch errors or know something I can add.

Anonymous Fri Apr 17 05:05:53 2015 No.6415156

>>6414245

The thing that might be difficult with analytic Philosophy is that it really isn't a general kind of Philosophy like say German Idealism, you have a multitude of positions that are united mainly by a method. You have people who take anti-realist positions about the external world like an idealist would, straight up analytic-thomists making a case for virtue ethics, logical positivists claiming that philosophy should only be for conceptual analysis because only empirical evidence matters for truth claims, and really ever position under the sun. Especially these days now that logical positivism is mostly seen as a failure and we have been given room to do real metaphysics again, draw off what ever crazy medieval or ancient philosophy we are interested in, ect.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 17 05:06:49 2015 No.6415157 >>6412529 I don't think it happens any more, there was a tonne of interest but nobody really discussed anything. May have moved offsite to goodreads or something though.

Anonymous Fri Apr 17 12:11:48 2015 No.6416074

>>6415156
Yeah I'm realizing that more and more.

In college I just took whatever phil class interested me and it was mostly things on number theories and shit. Pretty interesting but I feel like I missed a lot of important basics so this is a neat thing. I really like those stupid youtube songs every now and then about kant and shit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 17 12:18:42 2015 No.6416090 Stop all philosophy threads. Report all threads to this guide.

Anonymous Fri Apr 17 15:42:59 2015 No.6416611

>>6397294
two questions:

1. How long would it take to read most of the books on this list
2. are there any periods which you don't really need to read, I'm looking at medieval here, looks like wading through a lot of shit just to see how it influenced later works

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 17 20:27:41 2015 No.6417701 >>6416611 not OP, but you can probably skip everything between Aquinas and Decartes.

Anonymous Fri Apr 17 21:27:31 2015 No.6417850

>>6416611

Well you could say that same kind of thing about any period, if you aren't interested in the period then it will only have historical value to you.There is nothing wrong with skipping periods and philosophers who just don't seem interesting to you or only reading a few on the list. I put off the Medievals for years, which was actually a good thing because the 12th-13th century stuff is allot more rigorous and challenging then something like Descartes, which I skipped to from Plato. I'm glad that I jumped from ancient to modern because I wouldn't have had the ability to comprehend something like Duns Scotus at that point in my development. Having a background in analytic Philosophy made me more able to see why the Medievals were such powerful thinkers. All periods also have really fantastic Philosophers in them anyways, and you can connect some of the dots later as you go, so I don't think that you need to go in historical order personally.

This guide is good for what your best options are if you want to check out the material, unless you intend on being a historian of Philosophy then you don't need to worry from reading through the guide top to bottom. I have a huge gap from Kant to Nietzsche, and I don't even both with modern continental stuff because what i've learnt of it has been boring, and I am not sweating over it. Just read what interests you, when it interests you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 10:40:53 2015 No.6419737 >>6416611 god, people on this board are stupid

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/lit/ - Literature