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6390608 No.6390608 [Reply] [Original]

Does no political ideology offer true freedom?

>> No.6390612

>>6390608
S T I R N E R
T
I
R
N
E
R

>> No.6390625

Libertarianism

>> No.6390652

>>6390625
Corporations have power to cripple your freedom. To keep them "in check" is to cripple theirs. Libertarianism is at best a paranoid stalemate.

>> No.6390666

Theocracy.

Freedom can only be curtailed by existing entities such as men and laws. If you put all your political authority upon an abstraction that doesn't really exist in the physical sense, such as God, you are truly free.

Granted you don't create a clerical class, of course.

>> No.6390670

Freedom is a spook

>> No.6390673

Define freedom

>> No.6390678
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6390678

freedom is only the knowledge of being a part of a greater plan

>> No.6390684

>>6390608
Yes. Read Krishnamurti's Freedom from the Known.

>> No.6390689

>>6390652
Without the state to steal from you to help them when they make bad entrepreneurial decisions, they have good incentives to not fuck you up lest they go bankrupt.

>> No.6390740

>>6390689
Dude just stop. The Austrian school of economics is anti-intellectual bullshit with absolutely zero basis in reality. It rejects empiricism and uses an outdated method of thinking that predates the enlightenment. It just doesn't fucking work and with even the smallest glimpse of how the world actually works this should be obvious.

Here's an idea. Why don't you actually try to study and understand how economics works other than clinging to some easy absolute answer fed to you by ideologues.

>> No.6390746

>>6390673
This. Discussion is otherwise useless.

>> No.6390748
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6390748

>>6390608
No, not political.

>> No.6390759

>>6390740
>Believing in empiricism

I might as well be talking to a toddler

>> No.6390789

>>6390608
STIRNER, THE ANTIPOLITICAL PHILOSOPHY DOES

>> No.6390794

>>6390608
Voluntaryism

>> No.6390801

>>6390608
Without having to define freedom, as ideology is a bourgeois structure of knowledge that functions through and by the individuated subject, and separates knowledge from action, and in particular from the self-composing action of the proletariat, it necessarily cannot truly inform anything.

Freedom probably doesn't exist though.

>> No.6390805

True freedom doesn't exist, so of course not.

>> No.6390811

>>6390759
>Completely rejecting empiricism.
>Completely ignoring the history of humanity, culture, and markets
>Positing a theory of human nature that is obviously and demonstrably false and then having the gall to build an economic model on it.
Make sure you don't look both ways before you cross the street because the driver should be paying attention and should stop in time, because it is in his own interest.

>> No.6390813
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6390813

>>6390805
Interesting.

>> No.6390831

The truest expression of freedom would be freedom from the constraints of other existent things/people, the ability to end the world.

We cannot do this.

The truest expression of freedom cannot be realized.

To answer your question, no.

>> No.6390833

>>6390740
This argument requires no empirical part. Do you do empirical mathematics too?

>> No.6390848

>>6390833
>thinks mathematical knowledge is comparable to knowledge of economic affairs in this regard
Read a book, nigger.

>> No.6390858

>>6390608

The more you involve other people, the less free you become. Politics is about addressing the shape this bondage will take. So the answer is no. If you seek freedom, you should be trying to evade other people.

>> No.6390859

>>6390848
Why is it different?

>> No.6391018

>>6390608
I'm gonna let you in on a secret OP.

You only like the idea of freedom because what you consider to be freedom is inextricably augmented by the socioeconomic system you live in. You likely think true freedom is 'can do whatever i want whenever I want with impunity.' That is because your society meets all your base survivalist needs. Were there no society, you would be enslaved by your biological drives combined with scarcity of resources and fear of being killed. Any organized political system requires something of you to function, so you will always be giving up something for something else.

>> No.6391031

>>6390608
People dont want freedom, they just want to do what they want.

>> No.6391062

The only ideologies that matter are those that don't further complicate our relationship with the ecology and that which allows mankind to exist without being categorized.

This is anathema to Capitalism, and Capitalism is dominant, so if anything the only "ideology" that comes to fruition, probably this century, will be dominated by Capital. Anything beyond the next century possibilities may become open, as things become more desperate.

But, all in all, no political change matters because we exist in a world dominated by market. Everything gets subverted eventually. Not directly, but how we extrapolate ideas involves the standard ideas of power and weakness. This will not just wash away within decades.

You are looking at a very doomed future because combined with Capital's effects on the ecology and atmosphere, the general environment, you have six billion people, and inability to create a plan to sustain that ever growing number, this cannot end well for man.

In other words, depending on your ideas of freedom, if we went beyond this naive time is what you mean when you ask this question "can we ever have freedom". As of the 21st century or the 22nd it is very unlikely we can have anything resembling it, because we are on a fixed road of over consumption and it only leads to mass death over time.

>> No.6391069

>>6391062
>As of the 21st century or the 22nd it is very unlikely we can have anything resembling it, because we are on a fixed road of over consumption and it only leads to mass death over time.

So does communism.

>> No.6391082

>>6391069

Oh You!

>> No.6391096

>>6391082
You know its true, 5 year plan boy.

>> No.6391138

>>6391096

Have you ever seen shit slide out of an ass? That's what I see when I see your posts.

>> No.6391393

>>6391138
don't worry mr foucault, some of us are on ur side <3

>> No.6391408

>>6390748

hail eris

>> No.6391696

Anarcho-Communism

>> No.6391893

>>6390608
Anarchism

>>6390612
This is more the philosophy of freedom

>>6390625
Collect and trade slaves!
Classical liberalism lite. The pokémon of political ideologies is not about full of truer freedom.

>>6390666
Funny get for such an idea. Would theocracy demand a clerical class of hierarchy? I see what you're saying and I think it needs a new name. And they wouldn't be free of spooks. Or of fighting about how best to be worshipful.

>>6390831
Then we need to define "constraints". Living is a chore, so we can't be free of everything. Hunger, cold, death. But if we leave the goal post simply at Happy, say, I think we could settle.

>> No.6392311

So say you get your freedom, what will you do with it?

>> No.6392321
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6392321

>> No.6392527

>>6392311
whatever I want, ain't it great?

>> No.6392540

No. Freedom lies in a connection with a historically determined community that recognizes a shared form-of-life that necessarily faces certain existential enemies. It functions both as a negation of the negation and as the affirmation of its essence. It is entirely a concrete phenomena that can only be decides in concrete epochs by concrete relations among a people. Political "ideologies" function on abstraction and imply a turning away from one's primordial being in the world.

Individualism is not freedom, it is the logic of neo-liberalism.

Freedom is the relationship between the virtuality of man's being (the set of possibilities open to him) and the ability with which he can bring virtualities into actuality, always with the purpose of increasing his power and joy. Freedom is not an absolute category of being, it is the horizon towards which we strive towards as both individual and communal manifestations of dynamical/historical forces of power.

>> No.6393511

>>6391062

This is why I am so interested in Sustainability as a school of thought. It's not radical or game changing necessarily but it advocates for, and actually has a chance of being implemented, a completely new way to of doing things.

>> No.6393566

Except in dreams we're never truly free.