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/lit/ - Literature

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6388835 No.6388835 [Reply] [Original]

What's worse? A society that is afraid to act against oppression or a society that doesn't care about being oppressed?

>> No.6388841

>>6388835
stupid fuckin tard-nigger post shits like this ya fag

>> No.6388842

>>6388835
A society that oppresses itself. You all seem to think the government is the boogeyman, we do this to ourselves.

>> No.6388843

in before reddit cartoon >dae huxley was right

>> No.6388844

>>6388835
>that doesn't care about being oppressed?

>implying the people in BNW were being oppressed

Dude, that place was literally a paradise.

>> No.6388845

>>6388842
>we do this to ourselves
The tools to oppress ourselves are provided by the people in charge.

>> No.6388846

>>6388835
The society in Brave New World is perfect though.
Anyone else??

>> No.6388848

The society in BNW was a paradise.

>> No.6388849

I hope your question and your picture isn't related because they are not

>> No.6388854

was huxley a cuck? bnw is his lament centered around his proto-hippie gf sharing the love

>> No.6388878

Why are people so hot on the idea of being oppressed by government? What were you planning on doing? What is it that you cannot do?People always harp on about how "big business runs this country" and they push around half crazy conspiracy theories and then you've got a nation of people that just want to relax and enjoy themselves and really don't give a fuck as long as they can keep doing that.

It really all sounds like boredom to me. Feminists, communists, OP. They're just bored out of their fucking minds and they're trying to make up an enemy no matter how nuts it sounds.

>> No.6388891

>>6388846
>>6388844
>a society without art, ideals, history, or culture
>perfect

Stop this meme shit.

>> No.6388899

>>6388891
You seem to be implying intrinsic values beyond pleasure, why is this?

>> No.6388900

>>6388891

Do we really need those things? People were happy and didn't mind.

>> No.6388908

>>6388878
Most people are not clearly not hot on the idea or else we wouldn't have governments would we? Governments have only got more powerful and will continue so. For every 10 new constricting laws that come into effect, perhaps by luck 1 will get repealed. Call it boredom, call it whatever I don't care. At least someone, some god damn force has to bother with opposing those incremental steps. Else we end with bloody tyranny or bloody revolution. Neither of which is worthy of romanticism.

>> No.6388911

>>6388900
The higher you are in the caste system, the less happy you become from missing those things. That's why both Bernard and Helmholtz felt empty.

>> No.6388912

>>6388899
Why not just shoot all the bothersome humans and run a global pig farm, where everyone is happy as a pig in shit because that's literally what they are?

>> No.6388914

>>6388911

They felt empty because they are fedora tippers who didn't like to fuck.

>> No.6388918

>>6388899
>>6388900
Fucking hedonists, I swear to God.

>> No.6388920

>>6388912
Not enough social demand for such an action although theoretically I don't have anything against it as I support voluntary extinction. I'd rather see the world housing say a million blissful humans than upold the status quo if everyone can't stop reproducing.

>> No.6388924

>>6388918

You feel pleasure in art, not everyone does, o you think that the joy you feel from art is *higher* than the masturbation of some criminal

>> No.6388934

>>6388924
>you feel pleasure in art

That's why the government in BNW is oppressive. A large group of people feel pleasure in art. Not everyone, but still a significant group. Those people can't enjoy life because of total government censorship.

>> No.6388946

>>6388835
Definitely the first one, the second is fine

>> No.6388947

>>6388934

Speaking of myself, i don't know if I would like to censure art, since it's my only way to keep myself living anyway.

But I have to accept that most people don't give a shit about *high*art and it will always be something directed to a very small portion of population

>> No.6389035

>>6388908

> At least someone, some god damn force has to bother with opposing those incremental steps. Else we end with bloody tyranny or bloody revolution.

This is exactly what I was talking about. People being in love with the idea of tyranny and bloodshed and enemies. Those opposing people are the bored ones not the people just getting through their lives. Desperately constructing narratives where some super intelligent GOVERNMENT is sneakily trying to fuck people and oppress them. It really just can't wait to squash your freedoms.

You've got politicians basically begging people to get involved and vote and then you've got idiots like you pretending they are actively trying to suppress what you are allowed to do.

>> No.6389040

>>6388891
>art
they had multi sensorial movies, faggots creaming their pants with the occulus rift say that's the next step. even Godard is doing 3D and would get in that shit
>ideals
they had very important ideals, taught from birth. you wouldn't have dumb debates about silly ideas that way, isn't the point of all discussions to agree on stuff?
>History
they were taught a version of history, like we are. do you really think the founding fathers were saints with only pure ideals and that if we imitate them everything will be good?
>culture
how do you define culture? they had a lot of this

You are free not to like it, but it was an utopia. Your culturally biased taste doesn't change that.

>> No.6389042

>>6388845
And yet the people in charge are -us- and have taken the power to oppress -us- from the very masses the seek to enslave.

>> No.6389044

>>6388911
People feel empty in societies with arts, ideals, history and culture; so?

>> No.6389046

>>6388911
They felt empty because they weren't like the rest, dumbtard. The book even explains it because Huxley knew he was writing for retards. One excels while the other is subpar, if they were standardized they would be happy.

>> No.6389050

>>6389046
> if they were standardized they would be happy

Except complete standardization is impossible, therefore everyone saying "hurr it was paradise" is wrong.

>> No.6389071

>>6389050
A handful of people in a century weren't and they got a free ride to be with other cool guys like them in a tropical island. No drawback.

You are free to dislike it, that's the point, but it was a man made utopia. You might not want life to be perfect, and that's good, but life was perfect.

>> No.6389163

>>6388878
The American government has been making false enemies since it came into being and using that as an excuse to tap into everything.

>> No.6389175

>>6389046
isn't society just a tool to serve people rather than people being a tool to serve society

>> No.6389186

>>6389175
In fiction, yes. In reality, no.

>> No.6389219

>>6388835
>not presenting Zamyatin's superior work as an option.

>> No.6389230

>>6389071
The only real problem with Brave New World society is that it's too rigid and will crumble with the slightest change of the external conditions (say, new ice age). Apart from that it's really good. Replace everyone below betas with robots and you'd remove most of the moral objections.

>> No.6389309
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6389309

>>6388835
A society that cares too much about oppression
i.e. the cultural marxist first world

>> No.6389407

>>6389309
>cares too much about opression
>marxism
>pretending McCarthyism never happened
If anything it's the right wing doing that kind of shit, and very much in the open.

>> No.6389412
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6389412

>>6389309

>cultural marxist
>cultural marxist
>cultural marxist

>> No.6389424

>>6388835
False dichotomy

>> No.6389468

>>6389309
>a society that cares too much about oppression is worse than one afraid to act against it

fuck right outta my face you pitiful pisspot

>> No.6389531

The former obviously. Presuming both societies to be equal in the magnitude of oppression and for there to be no escape from the oppression, then what's the use of the pointless suffering through fear?

But I respond presuming that we mean worse in the sense of "worse to live in" rather than "morally worse population".

>> No.6389540

>being oppressed is bad
I hate this meme so fucking much.

>> No.6389555

>>6388845
>implying anybody is in charge and we aren't all just riding a bus with no driver

>> No.6389557

>>6389555
Gotta go Further.

>> No.6389570

The problem with BNW is that a decadent and wasteful society will always eventually be overtaken by a more efficient one.

>> No.6389598

>>6389570
>decadent
>wasteful
>implied inefficient
that isn't the point of the book, don't force your modern limited resource outlook to the book. it's like asking where the starships get the fuel, don't be that anon.

>> No.6389619

>>6389540
It's bad if you're a creative individual.

>> No.6389622

>>6389598
he's right though

>> No.6389640

>>6389412
>>6389309
can't we just put you two in a little box and ship it out to space

>> No.6389659

>>6389640
seconding that. doesn't need to be space, deep sea is cool too.

>> No.6389806

>>6389619
No, it's not bad. It simply restricts what they can do, which in turn opens up a different kind of playing field for them.

>> No.6389816

>>6389806
You are a simple person.

>> No.6389824

>Taking two extremist dystopias and asking which one is more likely
>Not understanding the word dystopia
>Not understanding the authors were trying to make a point about human nature, society and power, not predict the future

>> No.6389825

>>6388835
The first one. If I don't care about being oppressed then it doesn't affect my happiness.

>> No.6389845

>>6389816
How so?

>> No.6389859

>>6389824
>asking which one is more likely

Literally who are you quoting?

>> No.6389861

>>6388878
This is closer to the truth. People say that capitalism is starting to become buried beneath its contradictions. Its the exact opposite. We are finally figuring it out, optimizing it, critiquing it, tweaking it. The reach and depth of Capitalism is finally being charted. Contradiction breathes life into ideologue.

Its like the "le fedora man" meme. You can accuse anyone and everyone of being a fedora. It can mean you are a degenerate atheist or a hardcore Christian, polar opposites, or anything in between. It contradicts itself. But because no one wants to be a fedora, we are all trust onto one side of a debate that we don't have to believe in (who actually believes that atheists or Christians are all autistic spergs) but have come to accept. To avoid being a fedora, we start to group ourselves with people we would otherwise loath. As long as its vague and confusing, we can only accept it instead of pin it down and fight it. The contradiction is what causes it to propagate.

>> No.6389880

i dunno dude, seems like if people don't care they aren't quite oppressed enough

>> No.6389897

>>6389861
careful there, those are some bold assumptions
What i think is the root of this problem of people creating "enemies" has more to do with some underpriviliged people, like laborers, minimum wage people, so on, actually having problems because of big corporations.
People that don't have these problems but know about them tend to feel guilty about their lack of suffering so they compensate for it by choosing the side of the underdogs.

>> No.6389922

>>6389897
My bold assumptions are just a symptom of a larger problem, probably capitalist in nature!

I get what you are saying though. Its a complete flurry of a mess. The speed of communication is also resulting in the devaluing of interaction. I don't think the human body can physically sustain itself on text messages. We need social interaction, if only for the mental chemistry that it releases when we physically see and speak to someone.

>> No.6391872

A society that falsely perceives itself as oppressed is the very worst.

>> No.6391922

>>6388854
No both he and his wife were big on free love and went to all sorts of orgies. I think his first wife was bisexual too

>> No.6392132

Orwell's society is overtly oppressive, anyone can see that. Huxley's vision is far more insidious in that it places the common conception of what it means to be oppressed under a very harsh light. We have to redefine our presuppositions in order to make sense of it. John encapsulates this entire idea during the final convo when he says "I'm claiming the right to be unhappy."