[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 24 KB, 525x450, HACK!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6388490 No.6388490 [Reply] [Original]

Consider this:

[P1] Ethical Hedonism would morally obligate one to enter an Experience Machine.

[P2] The intuitions of many people (but not all) are violated by a moral obligation to enter an Experience Machine.

[P3] These intuitions pertain to moral truth, as in the way morality actually is, rather than merely how people believe it to be.

[C] Entering the experience machine would be wrong, therefore Ethical Hedonism must be false.

Now, surely we can see the obvious flaw in this argument. Namely with [P3]. How can it be assumed that this moral intuition, one that not everyone would agree upon, pertains to moral truth, rather than merely being a baseless preference, which may, after all, be explained by some cognitive bias? Even if the intuition were true, one cannot, in light of such problems, merely assume that it is, and then pretend that it constitutes a rational objection to absolutely anything, other than whether some ethical theory is subjectively appealing to some group of people. You have to justify why it is true. Can we all agree that Nozick is a touchy-feely hack, and a disgrace to normative ethics?

>> No.6388518

>>6388490
yes, I never understood what is a moral truth and truth alone.

You demand a justification, but the problem of knowledge is still not resolved today. It is very difficult to go beyond this more important problem

and actually, people should motivate the link between knowledge and morality, and the relevancy of morality alone actually.

>> No.6388533
File: 132 KB, 450x645, tmp_3514-alpha7-2103935692.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6388533

It's worth mentioning the evolution selects against experience machines. Because you won't have any reason to do anything else, the civilization is either taken over by other elements or, more likely, is doomed.

>> No.6388538

>>6388533
I, for one, welcome our new orgasmatron overlords.

>> No.6388597

>>6388518
I fear that pyrrho might have been onto something.

>> No.6388607

>>6388597
lel , I have been stuck in this sceptic position for a while, it really sucks in fact.
on the other hand, I think that I find that this sucks because of our education.

>> No.6388639

>>6388490
>touchy-feely hack
Is there any other kind of normative ethicist?

>> No.6388656

>>6388639
kek

>> No.6388765

http://people.umass.edu/ffeldman/Nozick%20Draft%20January%201,%202010.pdf

>> No.6388768

>>6388765
I found this a good refutation.

>> No.6388874

>>6388490
The intuitions that support ethical hedonism have no better grounds than the intuition that one shouldn't always prefer to be in the experience machine to a life outside it with slightly less pleasure.

If you think Nozick is a touchy-feely hack, maybe you should read his stuff on decision theory or his "Moral Complications and Moral Structures".

>> No.6388896

>>6388874
I said he was a touchy-feely hack in regard to the experience machine, not necessarily all things considered.