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/lit/ - Literature

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6350020 No.6350020 [Reply] [Original]

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

Unedited, but what's there is pretty fantastic. What do does /lit/ think?

>> No.6350023

>>6350020
Clearly I can't edit my comments either.

>> No.6350031

>>6350020
>he said she said
>she thought adverbially

>> No.6350087

Again with the fucking lemon cakes

>> No.6350523

I enjoyed it very much. Very excited for the full book

>> No.6350553

/pleb/ general

>> No.6350571

>>6350020
We can make fun of 'the more she drank the more she shat' all we want, but there's something about the simple, literal way this guy writes that feels very...I don't know what to call it. Cosy. It fits with the atmosphere of his story very well.

>> No.6350580

>>6350553
>you felt the need to open this thread and post this
You're a slave to your emotions and you don't even realise it, anon.

>> No.6350606

>>6350087
They're a complex metaphor for the teats of maidens.

>> No.6350682

What was the point of that chapter? Sansa is not interesting enough to hold my attention with meaningless chapters. Come back when you've written some Jaime or Theon chapters, George.

>> No.6350690

Is... is he eventually going to release the entire book this way? Bit by bit, piece by piece? What the fuck will be the point of publishing it, then? Some enterprising little shit will just have collected all the chapters into an ebook and have it pirated everywhere.

>> No.6350846

>>6350571
I agree with you. The way he writes is very distinct. It is one of those scenarios where you can make it as complex as you want, and the series itself can be surprisingly deep at times. Its no wonder was so popular even before HBO.

>> No.6351072
File: 619 KB, 1500x962, classic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6351072

>>6350682
He's experiencing the curse of genre fiction. World building overtakes the plot, world gets too complex for the original narrative arc, plot has to be modified with each revision, tying up all loose threads becomes an impossibly daunting task, desire to finish the narrative fades.

>> No.6351083

Enjoy getting your thread blasted by contrarians, OP.

On a related note: why the fuck would you read this shit when you know the book is at least a year out?

And why does he keep releasing chapters like this? There must be half a dozen " previews " already.

>> No.6351088

>>6351072

This is only a problem when you dont plan shit out beforehand. This is why some modicum of fucking forward thought is important.

>> No.6351128

>>6350571
he doesn't even write simply and literally. he very frequently sounds very pompous. sometimes he is flowery (often when describing sex)

>> No.6351130

>>6351128
his prose like the rest of the aspects of his writing is complete shit even by genre pleb standards

>> No.6351137

>>6351130
>>6351128
Shut up, at least we got a feast, even though it wasn't very well described.

>> No.6351141

What's wrong with reading for plot? I enjoy reading for prose too but why hate genre? Serious question. No bully pls

>> No.6351145

>>6351128
>Her cunt became the world
>Flowery

>> No.6351153

>>6351088
The thing is that ASOIAF did HAVE forward thought... at one point. But now I'm not sure what the fuck Martin is doing.

>> No.6351168

>>6351153
The show happened. The flow of it and the changes the showrunners made greatly influenced the narrative of the story. I wouldn't be surprised if they deliberately made him change what he had planned to write and swap it with something that would work better on TV instead.

Because really, who cares about the books? It's all about the money, and the show ia a much bigger cash cow than the books.

It's a shame, l really loved this series. Hell, l still do. Say what you will, but thia ia what actually got me into reading. It'd be a shame to see go down the gutter, but l think exactly that is going to happen by the time he's done with it.

>> No.6351169

>>6351141
there's nothing wrong with reading for plot but in this case the plot is shit as well.

>> No.6351177

>>6351153
Apart from Littlefinger's awesome plan to starve everyone?

>> No.6351799

Just awfulk

>> No.6351815
File: 169 KB, 768x768, tmp_18047-cover-1185448154.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6351815

New Dunk and Egg when?

It's vastly superior to the main series.

>> No.6352512

>>6350087
>Hating on scrumptious lemon cakes

Nigga I'll fight you.

>> No.6352591

>>6351177

Peasant uprising and noble lynchings confirmed for Winds of Winter.

>> No.6352607

>>6350020
>character thoughts in italics
Huh, I didn't realise Martin did this. How many authors have this habit, and where does it come from? I remember it annoying me in Dune.

>> No.6352619

Thought it was awful. Seemed to be "introduction to new random characters du jour" with a little "Sansa is less retarded nowadays" mixed in. Kinda sad because the last Sansa chapters had me medium hype about this part of the story not sucking. The Arya chapter was loads better.

>>6351815
based

>> No.6352667

>>6351072
>world gets too complex
Yo, protip: reskinning a 'Romance of the Three Kingdoms' videogame into War of the Roses-era English clothes is not complex world building.

>> No.6352673

>>6351141
>What's wrong with reading for plot?
Nothing. Problem is that ASOIAF doesn't have a plot.

>> No.6353237

>>6352673
"Doesn't have a plot"? What do you think you mean by that? Seriously. The impending invasion of ice zombies, the return of magic, the complex civil war, the five million subplots and intrigues, the tons of shit being slowly revealed and characters being killed off.. the series has far too much plot, but nobody who's read them could ever seriously claim there is "no plot."

>> No.6354030

>>6352591
Hang the nobles with the guts of the priests.

STRONGLY CRITIQUE REACTIONARY NOBILITY OF LEADERSHIP OF BROTHERHOOD WITHOUT BANNERS!

>> No.6354043

>>6351128
What else is sex supposed to be written as? How raw do you like it, Dr. Dirty Bastard?

>> No.6354057

>>6350571
Agreed. I don't read Martin as a rival of fucking Joyce. He's pulpy, trashy, popcorn entertainment.

>> No.6354062

>>6354043
I like it when people put two kilos of raw steaks inside men's vaginas.

>> No.6354076

I really like his books, but goddamn it do I hate how he goes about his writing. He takes fucking forever to write them. He's admitted to the fact that he can only write at home and without having to worry about anything. He's also said chapters like this aren't written in stone yet, but he still releases them. I wish he'd work on his novel, and then went on press tours and shit. The t.v show is almost caught up with the books, and there's only so much stalling they can do before Bran and Arya dont look like kids anymore.

>> No.6355058

>winter wheat was ripening in the fields

wtf he's been hyping this winter shit so hard, and all along they have fucking wheat that grows in it?? they're going to be well fucking fed all winter?! did grrm put us up on game?

>> No.6355119

>>6355058
As you'd know, Seasons last longer than 90 days.

Winter is a period when the North can't grow much if anything, and the South gets poorer crop cycles.

>> No.6355143

>>6355119
>he didn't read my post

WINTER WHEAT bitch, it will grow all 7 years or however long winter lasts

>> No.6355171

>>6355143
Unlike in our economy, where winter wheat is planted in Winter, this refers to wheat planted and harvested over the winter season.

>they're going to be well fucking fed

The yields are lower fuckwit, or in some areas like the North, non-existent.

>> No.6355292

>>6355171
That shit THRIVES MOST in the north, where it is WINTEREST. I'm not sure what about this you are having so much trouble understanding.

>Unlike in our economy, where winter wheat is planted in Winter, this refers to wheat planted and harvested over the winter season.

Like you have a fucking clue how Westerosi winter wheat operates.

>> No.6355298

>>6355292
…
Why don't you go masturbate to rape porn or something, you're functionally illiterate.

>> No.6355338

>>6355058
>>6355119
>>6355143
>>6355171
>>6355292
>>6355298

keep it up guys, this is hilarious

>> No.6355416

>>6355298
>functionally illiterate

Let's pick apart your english shall we:

>Unlike in our economy, where winter wheat is planted in Winter, this refers to wheat planted and harvested over the winter season.

'Winter' != 'Over the winter season' huh?

>> No.6355471

>>6355416
planting = harvesting eh?

How much do you know about CORN?

I think you're not from around here.

>> No.6355484

>>6355471
>planted and harvested over the winter season

You've been agreeing with me the whole fucking time. They will be well fed all winter due to harvesting it over the winter season.

>> No.6355536

Why is Sansa called Alayne

>> No.6355570

>>6351072
JOn gets fire powers kills all zombies becomes king rides dragons and marries daenerys

Bam done

>> No.6355699

>>6355484
>well fed
>YIELD
>well fed
>YIELD
>well fed
>YIELD

>>6355536
She's little finger's most expensive whore. As we know from the last book.

>> No.6355727

>>6355699
What the fuck are you guys even arguing about

>> No.6355784

>>6354057
>He's pulpy, trashy, popcorn entertainment.
This is seriously such a poor, basic assessment of his work, even counting those awfully written sex scenes. Pulp refers to an altogether different kind of lit, the only parts that can be described as trashy are those meme passages that get spammed here, and while the series is entertaining as hell, there's a strange conviction here that that's all there is to offer.

>> No.6355820

>>6355727
Corn yield for crops entirely grown during the equivalent of a mid-south france winter.

>> No.6355831

I forgot how ugly and unremarkable the man's writing was - no flourish, all telling, and there's even an error:

"Queen Cersei had collected the head of a dozen dwarfs"

So.. did they share it? I'm more interested in this group of dwarves now, that could survive for so long with but one noggin between them

>> No.6355871

>>6355831
>I forgot how ugly and unremarkable the man's writing was - no flourish, all telling
Why does writing have to be flourish, whatever that means? Most of the time his 'telling' is very effective; it renders his world and characters in a very vivid manner, and sometimes it creates a sense of tension or bleakness lurking underneath.
Having said that there are times when I wish his writing would 'offer' more, like it becomes frustratingly direct.

>> No.6355897

>>6351168
>It's a shame, l really loved this series. Hell, l still do. Say what you will, but thia ia what actually got me into reading.
Why don't you leave /lit/ and go back to where you came from?

>> No.6355904
File: 2.23 MB, 2112x2760, BrandonSanderson.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6355904

>is able to crank out 4 700+ page books in 3 years
>while having better prose than GRRM
How does he do it?

>> No.6355917

>>6352673
So it's the Seinfeld of genre fiction?

>> No.6355922

>>6355831
>Not appreciating George R.R.'s writing style
>Trying to force a certain style by saying others are wrong
Maybe for babby's first series but come on

>>6355904
I dunno about better but it's certainly amazing how he can consistently manage to create such high quality books THAT fast

>> No.6355964

>>6355904
>muh prose

>> No.6356234

>>6355904
he doesn't. shit prose, unimaginative world, formulaic and predictable plot, template characters, nothing surprising, nothing organic, nothing inspired. there's no idea behind his writing.

>> No.6356263

>>6356234
in fact, if you look at the fantasy mainstream right now, there seems to be correlation between how quickly they pound out their books and what virtues they possess, if any.

Sanderson is as Lawrence is as Abercrombie is as J Sullivan

Hobb puts out shit every year, but scattered throughout the years are some palatable works. Rothfuss might get something out after four or five years, his prose is abominable, the plots obvious as all, but at the core of his story is a relevant notion, of which he seems unaware unfortunately

GRRM takes a long time, but the work is good

>> No.6357351

>>6355871
I prefer showing the depth of a world through the actions of characters and the nature of the world itself. The Book of the New Sun is the best example of this I can think of, we have to infer a lot about what actually happens because of the limited nature of the description, and the creative way by which the truths are often hidden in plain sight
>>6355922
There are many ways of writing but Martin has no flow, nor does he have any creative way of getting images into the mind of the reader - he just says things, and this is boring and bland in reading. A writer at his age should have at least attempted some sense of stylistic growth by this point, but here he stands still plugging away with the same tired old phrases and vapid descriptions. If people like it then that's good for them, but I don't.

>> No.6357385

>>6355897
There was a time when the books were rec'd on /lit/ amd threads were low key and non-shitpostey.
Then the show happened.

>> No.6357396

>>6357385
Eh, it's only partly the show. The books have also gotten caught up in the vicissitudes of fantasy chat on /lit/ for a long time. And that's pretty fair tbh, because they are pretty much right in the center of that mainstream epic fantasy genre.

I do kind of feel like the fantasy conversation has gotten better (when it's not tangled up in genre trolling) and that's another reason the books don't get rec'd as much anymore. Like, if it's the case that Gene Wolfe is now the default /lit/ fantasy rec instead of GRRM, I'm extremely happy about that.

>> No.6357418

>>6350020
>Unedited, but what's there is pretty fantastic
this pleb taste

>> No.6357507

GRRM is a lesson to all writers on why you shouldn't write a series where more than a dozen of your characters are scattered all over the world and have little interaction with one another. The first novel was the best and most cohesive because it all took place (with only a few exceptions) within the city of King's Landing. All the characters were caught up in and contributing to a singular environment. Then they were all scattered to the winds and the plot slowed to a glacial pace because everyone's story had to be satisfactorily addressed.

>> No.6357962

>>6354057
it's pulpy trashy popcorn entertainment with 10/10 world building and really that's what matters in fantasy imo. It's not about whether you subscribe to the characters but whether you look at the world surrounding them and think "that's fukken cool mang" that matters

>> No.6357974

>>6357507
daenerys was a part of book 1 too my friend

>> No.6358307

>>6357974
>with only a few exceptions

>> No.6358366

>>6357507
None of the POV characters are plot relevant.

>> No.6358447

>At the north end of the yard, three quintains had been set up, and some of the competitors were riding at them. Alayne knew them by their shields; the bells of Belmore, green vipers for the Lynderlys, the red sledge of Breakstone, House Tollett’s black and grey pily. Ser Mychel Redfort set one quintain spinning with a perfectly placed blow. He was one of those favored to win wings.

>Petyr was not at the quintains, nor anywhere in the yard, but as she turned to go a woman’s voice called out. “Alayne!” cried Myranda Royce, from a carved stone bench beneath a beech tree, where she was seated between two men. She looked in need of rescue. Smiling, Alayne walked toward her friend.

>Myranda was wearing a grey woolen dress, a green hooded cloak, and a rather desperate look. On either side of her sat a knight. The one on her right had a grizzled beard, a bald head, and a belly that spilled over his swordbelt where his lap should have been. The one on her left was no more than eighteen, and skinny as a spear. His ginger-colored whiskers only partially served to disguise the angry red pimples that dotted his face.

>The bald knight wore a dark blue surcoat emblazoned with a huge pair of pink lips. The pimply-gingerlad countered with nine white seagulls on a field of brown, which marked him for a Shett of Gulltown. He was staring so intently at Myranda’s breasts that he hardly noticed Alayne until Myranda rose to hug her. “Thank you, thank you, thank you ” Randa whispered in her ear, before she turned to say, “Sers, may I present you the Lady Alayne Stone?”

yeah... this is pretty similar to the 300-ish pages of GoT I managed to slog through before I gave up. no interesting ideas; lots of boring details. it's not sophisticated, but it's not entertaining either.

>> No.6358529

>>6350571
INB4 pink mast

>> No.6358570

>>6355292
>Like you have a fucking clue how Westerosi winter wheat operates.

Just fucking lol'ing forever

>> No.6358577

>>6355292
SHUT UP NERD

>> No.6358584

>>6354043
Rawer than Burroughs or go the fuck home bruh.

>> No.6358641

>>6350020

His prose and style seem to have become more YA but as long as his plotting and cahracterisation remain strong enough that doesn't really matter that much.

IT was always the plotting and characterisation that made his books good.

>> No.6358654

>>6351072
He could do it easily if he had the balls to kill off some characters.

Tyrion and Jaime have literally no good reason to survive beyond this point.

Tyrion is a dwarf in the middle of a warzone and no one knows or cares that he's a duke.

Jaime has just been captured by a gang of thieves lead by a zmbie intent on hanging him and absolutely no one knows where he is.

Just start killing people off George. It makes sense and the story would be better.

>> No.6358661

>>6357507
the first 3 novels were all about as good as each other.

many of the series' highlights are in a Storm of Swords.

>> No.6358668

>>6358654
>tyrion
>not a key player in the dornish masterplan
>jamie
>not azor ahai reborn when he kills cersei

did you even read the books

>> No.6359442

>>6357351
It sounds as if you don't recognize that merely saying things as you put it can be a style, that a writer doesn't have to develop some overtly complex, none-literal flavour. Martin is very good at creating atmosphere and vividness through direct and solid descriptive writing. What's more, this style doesn't explicitly state the important things but leaves it for the reader to decipher and put together, especially regarding character motivations and psyches, and thematic ideas. Essentially the simple writing is often deceptive because it only gives a window to what really matters rather than spelling it out in lovely prose.

>> No.6359470

>>6350020
read the first book. liked it at first, then hated it towards the end.

i still like the show, but the books are hype to me. youre all kidding yourselves if you think the ending to this nonsense will be satisfying. its going to me Mass effect 3 times ten.

>> No.6359805

>>6358654
>Jaime has just been captured by a gang of thieves lead by a zmbie intent on hanging him and absolutely no one knows where he is.
>Citation needed

>> No.6359835

>>6359805
VICTORY
TO THE
BROTHERHOOD
WITHOUT
BANNERS

CRITIQUE THOROUGHLY
KNIGHT AND NOBLE LEADERSHIP
THROUGH PEASANT THOUGHT

>> No.6359889

>>6359442
>Martin is very good at creating atmosphere and vividness through direct and solid descriptive writing.
Dumbest way of saying "he writes down to my low reading level" evar.

>> No.6360231

>>6355904
mormon magic

>> No.6360441

>>6350682
It seems to be only half a chapter. Pretty sure something of interest will happen at that dance at the end.

>> No.6360444

>>6351168
>The show happened.
Wrong, AFFC was out before the show and ADWD was mostly done before the show. The last two books are not HBO's fault, but entirely GRRM's.

>> No.6360451

>>6355904
Sanderson does not have better prose by any means, and also manages to somehow have the worst dialogue in a genre full of shit dialogue.

Out of all the authors you could have chosen, you went with this muppet.

>> No.6360477

>>6358447
>no interesting ideas; lots of boring details. it's not sophisticated, but it's not entertaining either.
Complete and utter pleb.

>> No.6360528

>>6358654
obviously this is wrong in terms of plot. Tyrion will be advising Daenerys, and his bitterness towards his family and those who shunned him will cause him to enable Daenerys' newly espoused violent dictatorial philosophy, which in turn will lead to terrible strife and destabilization in Westeros. in fact, Tyrion's actions has already had huge repercussions in this regard, since he convinced Aegon to sail for Westeros without Dany's alliance.

and Jaime, who some assume is headed for certain death at the hands of LSH (or Brienne via trial by combat), could be headed for any number of plot contrivances. on the way through the Riverlands, he and Brienne could be taken by the other half of BwB, the non-LSH one. they could run into the runaway Blackfish and whoever he's with. assuming they reach LSH, they might put him to use instead of killing him, to sneak them into Riverrun during Daven Lannister's wedding, or even into Winterfell. my favorite theory is that Jaime's trial will be interrupted by, or that Jaime and Brienne will otherwise be brought to the Reeds at Greywater Watch, giving us a POV for the meeting with Howland.

but those are all just contrivances to further Tyrion's and Jaime's arcs, and their contributions to the overall story. both of their characters, like any POV, offer key parts of the story's central concerns. dismissing that because you want GRRM to wrap things up is missing the point, and it's not reading a story, it's just being told a bunch of meaningless made-up events. you fucking tripfag

>> No.6362592

>>6360528
>any POV, offer key parts of the story's central concerns
No POV offers any part of the story's central concern except by inference or overhearing.

If the POV comes to rest upon you, it almost certainly means that your House's interests are waning, that puissance has fled, and that you have no fucking idea what's going on.

>> No.6362754

>>6362592
so a seven-book epic on decline across all strata regardless, because and in spite of all systems, which pursues its subject so consistently and with such clarity as to draw together an exhaustive amount of disparate elements under one theme, is not trying to communicate a single idea to the reader?

>> No.6362769

>>6357962
But anon, the world is just cribbed from history and mixed with dime-a-dozen fantasy tropes. If anything, Martin's characterization is one of his biggest strengths.

That and he hasn't been dumb enough to go overboard and talk about the world at the expense of the plot.

>> No.6362799

>>6357962
>10/10 world building
>World is literally a trivial amalgamation of historical periods from our own world.

>> No.6362978

>>6358668
>>6360528

make a really neat narrative story arc.what matteris is whether it makes sense. It makes sense for both of them to die at the moment.
It is unlikely that a dwarf would survive for long in the middle of a random warzone without status and men protecting him.
It is also unlikely that Jaime would be resced from being hanged by Stoneheart when he followed Brienne by himself so he's in the middle of some wood and no one knows his location.

You must be fucking braindead if you can't understand this.

for them to survive requires convenient writing i.e. plot armor.

Which is something grrm should avoid since his books are too unwieldy and have too many points of view and plotlines and some need to be culled.

Eat shit.

>> No.6363005

>>6362978
Not to mention half the stated appeal of ASOIAF in the first place is the LACK of plot armor its main characters have enjoyed. This is the same series that killed the hero of its first book at the end, after all.

>> No.6363131

>>6362754
>so a seven-book epic on decline across all strata regardless, because and in spite of all systems, which pursues its subject so consistently and with such clarity as to draw together an exhaustive amount of disparate elements under one theme, is not trying to communicate a single idea to the reader?

>intentionality.

Oh lord. Get this child an enema, because he is full of ideology.

>> No.6363588

>>6362978
spoken as if the goal of the story is to see as many of its characters dead as possible, as soon as possible. it makes sense for both of them to die immediately because that's the only option you'll accept: if the conditions of their survival are provided, you'll call it poor writing, as though the story has never seen danger mitigated, revenge compromised or waylaid and death escaped within reason. disgusting tripfag shit